Ireland/England

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Ireland/England

Post by Presuming Ed on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 9:03 am

Ireland with nothing to lose. England on the verge of history. Surely advantage Ireland?
Would beating England and thus having beaten the 2 best teams in the world, salvage anything for the Ireland team and supporters?
Will England be frozen by the chance of 2nd GS and world record? Or highly motivated and on their game?
Will Ireland be despondent and lacking in confidence?

So many vaguaries on a psychological level that for me makes this game too hard to call. Thoughts?

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by beshocked on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 9:11 am

As silly as it sounds we'll probably find out during the national anthem.

England were much more pumped up vs Scotland than Italy during the anthems. It showed in the performance on the pitch.

Personally I was dreading this game from the beginning as I can see Ireland being absolutely up for this.


Perhaps the most important Irishman IMO is Best. If England can get to him with their form 2nd rows they can stop Irish momentum.

Ireland had their chances vs Wales but simply weren't able to break through.

In contrast England were very clinical vs Scotland.

Of course there's also the England bench to look out for.

Only 3 tries vs Scotland from them but every try counts.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 9:14 am

Doing the bench a disservice for once beshocked. 4 tries from the bench I think.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 9:24 am

I have to say I'm pretty confident that England won't freeze come the weekend but it'll be hard fought all right. The pressure is on England but we want that to be the case; if as Jones says we want to he a great team the pressure to win every time you go out to play has to be there. There's no dead rubbers or games you can take easily.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:22 pm

The op say with Ireland having nothing to lose.

Well i am sorry but Ireland have a lot to lose if they try and consider stopping England rather than try to win the game.

Ireland need to consentrate on their own game plan, Need to focus on them selves.... OK so Ireland cannot win the 6ns, but their is still a lot to play for. First of all (PRIDE) Ireland would not wan't to lose at home to England. 

2 ( LIONS) Places. 

RWC rankings.

So in my opinion, yes Ireland will want to win, no team like to lose a game.

But i do think that England will have may be a bit to much stamina for Ireland. ( i hope any way) And the way England have been playing if they do not start well, the finishes will finish the game.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:29 pm

Well done to England on securing the title against Scotland. It was their best performance of the tournament so far and you cant argue with that performance.

Its disappointing for me because my England v Ireland tickets don't have the same meaning as they could have had. however, it will still be an interesting measure of how good/bad Ireland are at home and a win v England would lift spirits after a bad enough/mixed campaign.

I think halting England's win streak and denying them a grand slam is enough motivation for this Irish team to get back on track but based on their last performances England are undoubtedly favourites to career forward undefeated.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:30 pm

Lions places are at stake but I sense this Ireland squad would be better served having a small Lions contingent this time around.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by cascough on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:32 pm

Also it depends on how England are viewing it. It could be argued it's England who have nothing to lose. They literally cannot lose the title. Until someone else beats it, their 18 match winning run will sit atop the table alongside New Zealand's. England cannot lose their place as a top seed for the world cup.

They have a chance to become the first side to win back to back 6N grandslams. No-one has done it, so how England can lose what they don't yet have could be potentially argued as silly. Likewise the 19 match win streak. They don't have that until they've done it, so therefore don't have it to lose yet, see?

To try and talk a bit more sense, if they think about it positively, they have a chance to create (more) history. It's a glorious opportunity, rather than an opportunity for disaster. Just seems to me that under Eddie Jones England are thriving when presented with these sorts of challenges. They'll lose eventually of course, but when they do I think they will have just come up against a better team on the day. I don't see the occasion influencing things too much.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by propdavid_london on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:45 pm

Connor Murray being fit or not will be pretty defining from an Irish perspective....

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by hugehandoff on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:51 pm

Ireland with an extra days rest, home advantage and the need to get the frustrations of their Wales match out of their system make this a match too close to call. Ireland have great players and they are only not competing for the championship due to tiny margins. From a Lions perspective we will learn a lot about some of the England players. Fascinating and I cannot wait.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by cascough on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:09 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Lions places are at stake but I sense this Ireland squad would be better served having a small Lions contingent this time around.

If you lose you will fall out of the top 4 in the rankings (assuming Scotland beat Italy). That's quite a big thing to be at stake?

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by Poorfour on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:10 pm

In previous games in Dublin, Ireland have tended to come out of the blocks hard and stop all English momentum with their intensity in the tackle and at the breakdown, and to use an aerial game to put pressure on English possession near their own 22.

The first of those was certainly in evidence for Ireland (and Wales) on Friday night. However, Wales brought similar intensity to the England game, and England were able to live with it even if they couldn't get much more than parity.

The second was most in evidence when England started with Goode. Whatever else people think of Brown, his form under the high ball is close to its best, and Watson and Nowell provide additional security. It won't be easy, but I don't think they'll get hammered as they did two years ago.

In terms of primary possession, England have been very secure in their own lineout and while they haven't stolen much ball they have tended to make clean ball hard to secure for the opposition.

The scrum is interesting. England suffered a bit against France - but had Marler only just back from a broken leg and a very unfamiliar back row. They've been solid since, though not particularly dominant. I'd be surprised if the same pack doesn't start again (perhaps with Billy in place of Hughes if he's deemed fit enough) so that Marler is facing off against a fresh Furlong rather than Mako. If England can put pressure on the Irish scrum, I expect them to be able to control the game.

If Ireland want to win, they need some early scores, and that will mean dominating the breakdown and playing with more invention than they showed in Cardiff. England have been pretty disciplined so far, so it won't be easy to get the scoreboard ticking over. Just hammering the ball up close to the breakdown is likely to be no more effective than it was against Wales, and I think the key will be to try to draw in defenders and get the ball wide fast and around England's defence. But Ireland defend narrowly as well, and England know Andy Farrell's patterns so they'll be right back atcha.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:20 pm

Tbh Ireland have been the most disappointing side this series – beaten already by, arguably, 2 unfancied sides. And in the Wales game in particular they looked pretty toothless. I’d say Ireland beating England next week would be the shock result of this 6N. If England play to even 80% of the level of the Scotland game, they’ll win comfortably.
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Re: Ireland/England

Post by the-goon on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:43 pm

cascough wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Lions places are at stake but I sense this Ireland squad would be better served having a small Lions contingent this time around.

If you lose you will fall out of the top 4 in the rankings (assuming Scotland beat Italy). That's quite a big thing to be at stake?

Only Wales can overtake us in the rankings, a win of any kind in France will see them 4th if we don't beat England.

http://irbrankingcalculator.azurewebsites.net/

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by cascough on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:56 pm

Ah right, forgot Italy were so far down the rankings. Cheers. Still, Ireland play last. My point remains in that it's likely you'll need to win to avoid dropping out of the top 4?

The more I think about this the more I think Ireland have more to lose here.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be gutted if England don't win. England could gain two records, sure. But Ireland could lose their seeding.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 1:59 pm

Do England play Argentina 3 times in a row? 2 for summer tour then AI?

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

Depends on this rumoured extra fixture with new Zealand they are trying to shoehorn in.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:41 pm

cascough wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Lions places are at stake but I sense this Ireland squad would be better served having a small Lions contingent this time around.

If you lose you will fall out of the top 4 in the rankings (assuming Scotland beat Italy). That's quite a big thing to be at stake?

How is that related to my comment about the Lions tour?

Yes falling out of the top four would be a set back but I dont think there is a massive difference in being in tier one and tier two in terms of the group you get in the WC. It may make it marginally a bit easier to top your group but Ireland have topped their last two RWC groups as a second tier team and then blew it in the quarters.


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Re: Ireland/England

Post by cascough on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 2:49 pm

It's a conversation, Guns. You've said something about things being at stake and I've expanded on it, prompting a response. You've delivered a response so the universe is at peace.

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 3:10 pm

What does cascough mean?

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Re: Ireland/England

Post by SecretFly on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 4:41 pm

Ireland v England.

Ireland could win.
England could win.

England much more likely to win on current form.

England are a side based on cohesion of effort and repetitiveness of 'form'.
Ireland are a one-game-perhaps side.  After an unusual and pretty consistent last year, they've reverted to their more cyclical nature of inconsistency; i.e. form coming and going on a whim for no apparent reason.

It's England's game to lose.  They're more than good enough.  They have what Ireland fears most - a power game with oodles of pace.  The power players have pace.  Ireland just has a major issue there because their power players can't adapt to being stretched, particularly after a typical Irish game of bang, bang, bang all through a first half.

England just have to resist the bang, bang, bang and then send it wide and fast in the second half.  The Irish boys will get breathless soon enough and the tries will become easy.

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Re: Ireland/England

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