Lions by Country

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Lions by Country

Post by alive555 on Sat 18 Mar 2017, 8:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

here's some options at what the split could be assuming gatland picks on form

England - 16
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 5

or

England - 15
Ireland - 9
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

or

England - 14
Ireland - 10
Scotland - 7
Wales - 6

my personal guess it will be:-

England - 16
Ireland - 11
Wales - 9
Scotland - 3

discuss!
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:03 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'd expect the split to be more along the lines of;

England - 15
Ireland - 5
Scotland - 6
Wales - 11

Welsh players to be rested for the Test matches, Ireland and Scotland to provide most of the second-string starting lineups.  England and Wales could pick up an extra spot each at the expense of the Scots, though to me that wouldn't be in line with form from the tournament.

Wales getting double the amount of players than Ireland would be in line with the form of the tournament? Maybe the form of the Ireland v Wales game but hardly the form of the tournament.

I wouldnt be surprised if the split was close to that but I dont think it would be on form if it was.

I think the split will be:

England - 17
Ireland - 6
Scotland - 4
Wales - 10

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:07 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'd expect the split to be more along the lines of;

England - 15
Ireland - 5
Scotland - 6
Wales - 11

Welsh players to be rested for the Test matches, Ireland and Scotland to provide most of the second-string starting lineups.  England and Wales could pick up an extra spot each at the expense of the Scots, though to me that wouldn't be in line with form from the tournament.

Wales getting double the amount of players than Ireland would be in line with the form of the tournament? Maybe the form of the Ireland v Wales game but hardly the form of the tournament.

I wouldnt be surprised if the split was close to that but I dont think it would be on form if it was.

I think the split will be:

England - 17
Ireland - 6
Scotland - 4
Wales - 10

Wales have done nothing to merit 10 players.

Warburton, AWJ, Ken Owens, Rhys Webb and George North. It's hard to make a case for anyone else when considering how close everyone has been in this 6N.

Edit --- + Liam Williams, although the fact I forgot about him shows how much he contributed against France...
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:35 am

That's pretty much what I was saying Radge, however, I dont think Gatland will pick exclusively on form nor should he. If he did the following players might not make it as they have been at times below their best:

Sean O'Brien
Hartley
Vunapola
Farrell
Halfpenny
AWJ
Itoje (maybe a bit harsh)

Gatland will want to bring a few of these guys at least.

Spaghetti legs Williams will definitely be picked IMO and also deserves to be.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:51 am

Geech's 6N based Lions team :

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. AW Jones
6. Warburton
7. Watson
8. Stander

9 Webb
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Ringrose
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

For me that looks like a great team with the right balance.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/03/19/sir-ian-mcgeechans-six-nations-team-tournament-country-do1/

I'd personally swap Itoje for Lawes or Launchberry but otherwise I'd say it's a great team, with good representation of where the teams are at the moment.
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 10:55 am

I think Itoje would make a great impact sub.

I wouldnt be surprised if Ultan Dillane was a shock inclusion in the mid week squad. I think the sort of rugby played in NZ would suit him a lot. He is really pacy too.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Griff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 11:42 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'd expect the split to be more along the lines of;

England - 15
Ireland - 5
Scotland - 6
Wales - 11

Welsh players to be rested for the Test matches, Ireland and Scotland to provide most of the second-string starting lineups.  England and Wales could pick up an extra spot each at the expense of the Scots, though to me that wouldn't be in line with form from the tournament.

Wales getting double the amount of players than Ireland would be in line with the form of the tournament? Maybe the form of the Ireland v Wales game but hardly the form of the tournament.

I wouldnt be surprised if the split was close to that but I dont think it would be on form if it was.

I think the split will be:

England - 17
Ireland - 6
Scotland - 4
Wales - 10

Wales have done nothing to merit 10 players.

Warburton, AWJ, Ken Owens, Rhys Webb and George North. It's hard to make a case for anyone else when considering how close everyone has been in this 6N.

Edit --- + Liam Williams, although the fact I forgot about him shows how much he contributed against France...

I'd add Tipuric into that list too. Had a very good tournament for Wales. Not necessarily a test starter but take him as a tourist. Actually, I don't think anyone should be named as a starter yet anyway. They should all be listed as tourists first and then pick the starting Lions team from tour games and training.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 11:54 am

Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'd expect the split to be more along the lines of;

England - 15
Ireland - 5
Scotland - 6
Wales - 11

Welsh players to be rested for the Test matches, Ireland and Scotland to provide most of the second-string starting lineups.  England and Wales could pick up an extra spot each at the expense of the Scots, though to me that wouldn't be in line with form from the tournament.

Wales getting double the amount of players than Ireland would be in line with the form of the tournament? Maybe the form of the Ireland v Wales game but hardly the form of the tournament.

I wouldnt be surprised if the split was close to that but I dont think it would be on form if it was.

I think the split will be:

England - 17
Ireland - 6
Scotland - 4
Wales - 10

Wales have done nothing to merit 10 players.

Warburton, AWJ, Ken Owens, Rhys Webb and George North. It's hard to make a case for anyone else when considering how close everyone has been in this 6N.

Edit --- + Liam Williams, although the fact I forgot about him shows how much he contributed against France...

I'd add Tipuric into that list too.  Had a very good tournament for Wales.  Not necessarily a test starter but take him as a tourist.  Actually, I don't think anyone should be named as a starter yet anyway.  They should all be listed as tourists first and then pick the starting Lions team from tour games and training.

I really rate Tipuric, but up against some of the incredible backrow Talent it's a tough call. In the backrow possible tourists include:

CJ Stander, POM, O'Brien, Heaslip, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Moriarty, Robshaw, Haskell, Itoje, Billy V and Hamish Watson.

Good luck trimming that lot down. I'd personally bring:

Stander, POM, O'Brien, Warburton, Robshaw (if he can get fit), Itoje, Billy V and Watson. That does of course mean leaving some talented players behind. It's even harder to make cuts in the 2nd row. This and the 2nd row is the place where the Lions do have and embarrassment of riches.
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Griff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:13 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I really rate Tipuric, but up against some of the incredible backrow Talent it's a tough call. In the backrow possible tourists include:

CJ Stander, POM, O'Brien, Heaslip, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Moriarty, Robshaw, Haskell, Itoje, Billy V and Hamish Watson.

Good luck trimming that lot down. I'd personally bring:

Stander, POM, O'Brien, Warburton, Robshaw (if he can get fit), Itoje, Billy V and Watson. That does of course mean leaving some talented players behind. It's even harder to make cuts in the 2nd row. This and the 2nd row is the place where the Lions do have and embarrassment of riches.

I know it's all personal but from your list above: I'd leave Robshaw at home (not been playing enough lately) and would possibly take Itoje as a 2nd row instead. Perhaps harsh but I'd not take POM as he's not starting for Ireland because (I'm assuming) of the awesome form of Stander. I think players need to be starting regularly at international level to be in with a shout (if I was a selector). So that's 3 less on the list for me personally, which is where Tipuric might get a shot.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Shifty on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:14 pm

15 Hogg / L.Williams
14 Halfpenny (goal kicking) / Watson
13 Joseph / Ringrose
12 Farrell / Jonathan Davies (again Gatland rates him)
11 North (if he can be bothered to turn up) /
10 Sexton / Ford
9 Webb / Murray (possibly because of Sexton) / Greg Laidlaw
8 CJ Stander / Billy Vunipola
7 Tipuric / Sean O'Brian
6 Warburton (c) - I don't agree but Gatland loves him  / Haskell
5 Maro Itoje / Launchberry / Richie Grey
4 Alun Wyn Jones / Lawes
3 Cole / Probably Scottish props
2 Dylan Hartley / Ken Owens (impact player) / Rory Best
1 M Vinipola / Probably Scottish props

Robshaw won't go, I don't think Gatland rates him at all.  Especially with Tipuric and Warburton being among Gatland's favorites.
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:18 pm

A team with Farrell, Sexton and Hogg really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.


Last edited by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wrong name)

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:19 pm

Griff wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I really rate Tipuric, but up against some of the incredible backrow Talent it's a tough call. In the backrow possible tourists include:

CJ Stander, POM, O'Brien, Heaslip, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Moriarty, Robshaw, Haskell, Itoje, Billy V and Hamish Watson.

Good luck trimming that lot down. I'd personally bring:

Stander, POM, O'Brien, Warburton, Robshaw (if he can get fit), Itoje, Billy V and Watson. That does of course mean leaving some talented players behind. It's even harder to make cuts in the 2nd row. This and the 2nd row is the place where the Lions do have and embarrassment of riches.

I know it's all personal but from your list above: I'd leave Robshaw at home (not been playing enough lately) and would possibly take Itoje as a 2nd row instead.  Perhaps harsh but I'd not take POM as he's not starting for Ireland because (I'm assuming) of the awesome form of Stander.  I think players need to be starting regularly at international level to be in with a shout (if I was a selector).  So that's 3 less on the list for me personally, which is where Tipuric might get a shot.

The reason I took Itoje in the flanks is because the 2nd row is even more hotly contested. I wouldn't pick him in the 2nd row over some of the others.

Charteris for instance who I really rate. However he suffers from the same problem as POM wheras a coach prefers the input of another to start, but that doesn't mean they are better.

I don't think Schmidt picked the best Irish backrow until Saturday and injury forced his hand. As a follower of the pro 12 I shouldn't have to remind you how ungodly awful (in a good way) that Munster back row is when they have POM and Stander on the pitch at the same time. Add O'brien on the openside and that is a devestating combination, although Schmidt perseveres with Heaslip who IMOs best days are behind him.

Charteris as well, seems not to get starts ahead of Jake Ball. That one is a mystery to me because he is a fabulously talented player.
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Shifty on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:28 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:A team with Farrell, Sexton and North really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.

Yes but remember Gatland is the coach which basically means

1) Gatlands favorite Welsh players
2) star players
3) rest to make up the numbers.

And why has no one mentioned Alex Cuthbert yet? Doh
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:36 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:A team with Farrell, Sexton and North really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.

I think Sexton and Farrell cover goal kicking well enough. 1/2p isnt required really.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Griff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:02 pm

Yeah, Sexton and Farrell are fine goal kickers. No need for 1/2p.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Cyril on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:03 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:A team with Farrell, Sexton and North really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.

I think Sexton and Farrell cover goal kicking well enough. 1/2p isnt required really.
Erm, I think he was being sarcastic.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Griff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:05 pm

Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:A team with Farrell, Sexton and North really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.

I think Sexton and Farrell cover goal kicking well enough. 1/2p isnt required really.
Erm, I think he was being sarcastic.

I wondered that. But couldn't work out what the North bit was about in terms of goal kicking?!

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by BamBam on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:09 pm

Hastily edited to Hogg Wink but I agree

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Cyril on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:09 pm

Griff wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:A team with Farrell, Sexton and North really needs Halfpenny for his goalkicking also seem to be missing Furlong and McGrath who are near certain tourists.

I think Sexton and Farrell cover goal kicking well enough. 1/2p isnt required really.
Erm, I think he was being sarcastic.

I wondered that.  But couldn't work out what the North bit was about in terms of goal kicking?!
Maybe he meant Hogg? I've not seen North do too much kicking!

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:43 pm

I think Peter O'Mahony should be the tour captain. I said this before the Six Nations and I'm glad he got the starting shirt against England to show what Ireland have been missing. Also, Munster will win the Champion's Cup this year under his leadership.

Stander just isn't as good at 6 as Peter O'Mahony. He is an 8 and should be considered as one for both Ireland and the Lions. All of the team suggestions with Stander starting at 6 end up with a very small back row.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by rodders on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:57 pm

I think Gats has the following nailed on:-

Ireland

Payne
Henshaw
Murray
Stander
Furlong

Scotland

Hogg
J Gray

Wales

North
Biggar
William
J Davies
A W Jones
Owens
Webb
Warburton
Tipuric

England

Itoje
Newell
Vainapolo * 2
Cole
Farrell
Daly
George
Hartley
Kruis
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 3:08 pm

rodders wrote:I think Gats has the following nailed on:-

Ireland

Payne
Henshaw
Murray
Stander
Furlong

Scotland

Hogg
J Gray

Wales

North
Biggar
William
J Davies
A W Jones
Owens
Webb
Warburton
Tipuric

England

Itoje
Newell
Vainapolo * 2
Cole
Farrell
Daly
George
Hartley
Kruis
Sorry Rodders I don't think either Biggar or JD2 are nailed on I don't think either will go and rightly so, and which Williams are you talking about spiderlegs or Scott, if it is the latter I again think you are wrong again.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 3:23 pm

So Sexton tours with Ireland to Amerikay and Japan? Why not - put the feet up Johnny, have the ceegar, the champagne and the ladies by the pool.... yeah, he deserves a light summer after all his injury frustrations and such. Let someone else try to beat the best for a change. Whistle

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by rodders on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 3:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:So Sexton tours with Ireland to Amerikay and Japan?  

Are you serious fly, the bloody turbulence would cause him to need a HIA.

Poor Jonny needs to put his feet up, he reminds me of Apollo Creed after that first round against Drago these days.
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Re: Lions by Country

Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 3:52 pm

.... a GENUINE HIA, rodders! Get with the new etiquette. You must acknowledge the difference.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by propdavid_london on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

My thoughts on call ups (not looking at squad numbers yet)

Ireland
Henderson
Henshaw
Connor Murray
CJ Stander
O'Brien
Furlong
Sexton
Best

Scotland
Hogg
J Gray
Maitland

Wales
North
L.Williams
AW Jones
Webb
Warburton
Tipuric

England
Itoje
Nowell
Billy V
Mako V
Cole
Farrell
Daly
George
Hartley
Launchbury
Brown
Joseph

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 4:12 pm

Not sure O'Brien nor Henderson have been good enough to tour. Maybe Henderson because he is versatile but SOB hasnt been great. That said he tends to dominate his opposite number every time he plays NZ. McCaw singled him out recently as a player he loved to play against because he was so good.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 4:30 pm

propdavid_london wrote:My thoughts on call ups (not looking at squad numbers yet)

Ireland
Henderson
Henshaw
Connor Murray
CJ Stander
O'Brien
Furlong
Sexton
Best

Scotland
Hogg
J Gray
Maitland

Wales
North
L.Williams
AW Jones
Webb
Warburton
Tipuric

England
Itoje
Nowell
Billy V
Mako V
Cole
Farrell
Daly
George
Hartley
Launchbury
Brown
Joseph

Propdavid, so you are not going to take the best performing hooker Owens over the whole championship, and you are going to take the player most probably to get yellow carded and who has been outplayed by his opposite number in at least 3 matches (and when I say matches I mean about 50 minutes in practically all games).

For everyone else who still don't see Halfpenny as travelling. When is the last time that the best kicker available to the Lions has not been selected, you can even go back to 1997, when the highest points kicker in the then 5 Nations Paul Grayson was taken, but still the Head Coach deemed it necessary (Probably the best coach to a Lions squad in the Professional Era Ian McGeechan) had to take Neil Jenkins even though he was only Wales's kicker in the final game of that season. Arwel Thomas was kicker before that. Jenkins was taken as a F/B with Grayson and Gregor Townsend as the O/Hs. Can't remember wasn't Jenkins put on his backside by Matt Dawson when asked to play F/B by Wales, when Dawson was running up the field in a zig zagging motion, perhaps it was a different season, but it was only Geech that had him playing in that position in a satisfactory manner.

Halfpenny will go on this tour and rightly so, I think that Gatland will select his squad and at the moment Hogg is penciled in at 15, but as somebody else as said on this thread the Test team will be selected on tour.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 4:34 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Moot anyway. Halfpenny will go based on past rep.

I dont think he will. It would be a cheap pick. He is not the player he was. 4 or 5 better options now.

Past rep?….well yes i guess his superlative kicking display in Paris last weekend is in the past.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by propdavid_london on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 4:47 pm

Wayne -
It was my opinion - and No, I don't think Halfpenny is playing well enough to make the test side. If his kicking was metronomic like it has been in the past then I would consider him - but its been indifferent all season. With other place kickers that are more likely to tour - Sexton, Farrell, Daly......all pushing for the test team there isn't the need to have someone like Leigh in there....He might tour and play in the mid week side though - that's no disrespect, there will be plenty of opportunity to fight for test spot in training sessions.

Owens - I don't see it.
I Think Best will start at the moment, and see George or Hartley on the bench. Hartley probably captaining the mid week side.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:06 pm

Gwlad wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Moot anyway. Halfpenny will go based on past rep.

I dont think he will. It would be a cheap pick. He is not the player he was. 4 or 5 better options now.

Past rep?….well yes i guess his superlative kicking display in Paris last weekend is in the past.

Overall he was fairly average throughout the six nations. I think the Lions team will need to aspire to more than having a full back who can kick but offers little else.

Against Scotland he turned down kicks when AWJ asked him to take them because he said he wasnt confident enough. Not the player he once was.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:08 pm

Owens is a clear pick and has been nominated for one of the players of the tournament with incredible line out stats. The question si will both Harltey and best go as both were considered for Capt and neither have had a Captain's 6 Nations.

Likewise with no real options at 15 apart form Hogg who is defensively unsound halfpenny, with his metronomic boot, is a shoo in.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by R!skysports on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:19 pm

Gwlad wrote:Owens is a clear pick and has been nominated for one of the players of the tournament with incredible line out stats. The question si will both Harltey and best go as both were considered for Capt and neither have had a Captain's 6 Nations.

Likewise with no real options at 15 apart form Hogg who is defensively unsound halfpenny, with his metronomic boot, is a shoo in.


Please note that again


Proved to be incorrect

We could even use Mike Brown being put on his arse one on one as an example that every 15 misses some tackles


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Re: Lions by Country

Post by hugehandoff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:22 pm

Jamie George has to be the starting hooker. Only because Hartley had something on EJs was George not starting. Different class to the others.

I think Halfpenny should tour as the kicking coach instead of Jenkins. Hogg to start at 15.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:25 pm

hugehandoff wrote:Jamie George has to be the starting hooker. Only because Hartley had something on EJs was George not starting. Different class to the others.

I think Halfpenny should tour as the kicking coach instead of Jenkins. Hogg to start at 15.

Didnt look that good from where I was sitting at the Ireland v England game. Best is overall a much better option.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:26 pm

Halfpenny is the clear back up to Hogg.

Kearney - no
Payne - could do a job but insufficient time on th pitch
Brown - no chance and has kept out any other English option unless Itoje can cover that too
Hogg - on the plane, defensively questionable
Halfpenny - former Lion, expert kicker and easily the best option as understudy to Hogg

L Williams will also provide cover



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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:43 pm

Lions squad likely

Back 3: Hogg, Williams, North, Halfpenny, Seymour, Watson/Nowell.

Centres: Joseph, Davies, Farrell, Henshaw, Daly

10: Sexton, Biggar with Farrell covering.

9: Webb, Murray, Youngs

Back row: Vunipola, Faletau, Stander, Warburton, Tipuric, SOB, O'Mahony.

Locks: AWJ if fit, Lawes, Itoje, Launchbury, J Gray

Front row: Marler, Mako, McGrath, Furlong, Cole, W P Nel (if fit, bolter - Gatland loves a random prop selection).

Hooker: Owens, Best, ought to be George, probably Hartley

13 English
11 Welsh
9 irish
4 Scots


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Re: Lions by Country

Post by hugehandoff on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:48 pm

Selection criteria for individual players:

1. Current form largely, but not exclusively, based on 6Ns

2. Away test form

3. Form V All Blacks

4. The character stuff - ability to blend in well and be a good tourist

Still some chance for those who missed the 6Ns to get noticed like Nel and Kruis.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:52 pm

Cant see Owens nor Halfpenny getting the nod. You never know though with Gatland as coach.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:54 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Cant see Owens nor Halfpenny getting the nod. You never know though with Gatland as coach.

Suugest you go look up Owens stats. And Halfpenny is one of the first names on the list but nice try.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:57 pm

hugehandoff wrote:Selection criteria for individual players:

1. Current form largely, but not exclusively, based on 6Ns

2. Away test form

3. Form V All Blacks

4. The character stuff - ability to blend in well and be a good tourist

Still some chance for those who missed the 6Ns to get noticed like Nel and Kruis.

Agree re Kruis and if AWJ is out he'll go. I think Cian Healy or Reid may be in contention. We will for sure lose 5/6 by First test

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:58 pm

Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:07 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

Who are the full backs then?

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:16 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Wayne -
It was my opinion - and No, I don't think Halfpenny is playing well enough to make the test side.  If his kicking was metronomic like it has been in the past then I would consider him - but its been indifferent all season.  With other place kickers that are more likely to tour - Sexton, Farrell, Daly......all pushing for the test team there isn't the need to have someone like Leigh in there....He might tour and play in the mid week side though - that's no disrespect, there will be plenty of opportunity to fight for test spot in training sessions.  

Owens - I don't see it.  
I Think Best will start at the moment, and see George or Hartley on the bench.  Hartley probably captaining the mid week side.  

First of all PropDavid I didn't have Leigh down as a Test starter just as a tourist, I find it ridiculous that most people would have George North who has had one very good game (Ireland), one ok game (France) and one abysmal game Scotland when he was humbled by that world class winger Tim Visser as a shoo in. Many Welsh on this board have been questioning whether he has deserved his Welsh place for quite a while, whereas Leigh has only been questioned as to what position he plays F/B or Wing. Let me add I would select both as they've shown in the past that they are WORLD CLASS, and they in the past 2 games look to be coming back to their best

I'm surprised a front row player, (I'm assuming that is your position I was a Hooker) would pick a player like Hartley, who's been subbed around the 50 minute mark after being outplayed by all of Guirado, Owens and Best in their matches. Don't know about Scotland as I didn't see that game and not all against Italy, but he and Haskell didn't know the laws. What a pair of pillocks.
Let me finally add an Englishman on these boards has said if AWJ is the captain of this series his interests in it would be nill (or words to that effect) the same would apply to me if Hartley is selected for this tour. I remember when this sort of exercise was going on at the time of the 2009 tour and people were putting Grewcocks name up and I was vehemently against him because of his disciplinary record. What happened? he was sent off on that tour. From my perspective as a former player, former Welsh qualified Coach and now supporter, who never condones thuggery could stomach someone like him anywhere near a Lions Squad. (Please don't condone that his behaviour is different at Club level to the National Level)

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:30 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

G&G why don't you go and have a look at the stats from when Scott Baldwin (this is hard for me as an Osprey supporter to say but the Scarlet has been far superior) takes over from Owens, in the game on the weekend there was a stat put up about the Welsh lineout when Ken was on the field it was the best of all the starting hookers in this competition of IIRC 99%. He then goes and cocks up that statistic in the first lineout for us. Doh


Last edited by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:30 pm

Gwlad wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

Who are the full backs then?

There will only be two. Odds on Brown and Hogg. Williams to cover. Outside chance of Payne as he covers centre and he is a Kiwi. Someone would have to get ruled out for 1/2p to tour. Even Kearney has been better than him

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:32 pm

wayne wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

G&G why don't you go and have a look at the stats from when Scott Baldwin (this is hard for me as an Osprey supporter to say but the Scarlet has been far superior) takes over from Owens, in the game on the weekend there was a stat put up about the Welsh lineout when Ken was on the field it was the best of all the starting hookers in this competition of IIRC 99%. He then goes and cocks up that statistic in the first lineout for us.

Who cares he isnt as good as his competition.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:33 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

Who are the full backs then?

There will only be two. Odds on Brown and Hogg. Williams to cover. Outside chance of Payne as he covers centre and he is a Kiwi. Someone would have to get ruled out for 1/2p to tour. Even Kearney has been better than him

Brown.

I just choked on my Rich Tea.

Well i guess that says it all. Doh

And Payne 'because he is a kiwi" Doh again

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:34 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
wayne wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

G&G why don't you go and have a look at the stats from when Scott Baldwin (this is hard for me as an Osprey supporter to say but the Scarlet has been far superior) takes over from Owens, in the game on the weekend there was a stat put up about the Welsh lineout when Ken was on the field it was the best of all the starting hookers in this competition of IIRC 99%. He then goes and cocks up that statistic in the first lineout for us.

Who cares he isnt as good as his competition.

No you are right, he is far better.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by wayne on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 6:34 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
wayne wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Halfpenny is one of the first name on the list of those that wont make it. Wales' lineout stats are good but that doesnt necessarly mean Owens is a great player. AWJ is the brains behind the Wales lineout. Best and Hartley are nailed on. Owens will have to fight it out with George who has a better chance to shine as Sarries are still in Europe.

G&G why don't you go and have a look at the stats from when Scott Baldwin (this is hard for me as an Osprey supporter to say but the Scarlet has been far superior) takes over from Owens, in the game on the weekend there was a stat put up about the Welsh lineout when Ken was on the field it was the best of all the starting hookers in this competition of IIRC 99%. He then goes and cocks up that statistic in the first lineout for us.

Who cares he isnt as good as his competition.

No, don't let facts get in the way of ignorance.

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Re: Lions by Country

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 7:02 pm

Halfpenny has been dreadful. He is an amazing player but he is woefully out of form.

Leigh Halfpenny used to be superb at plucking the ball out of the air, gradually the commitment and timing seems to have disappeared. I can only guess he has stopped working at it on the training field!

The most worrying aspect of this Six Nations campaign has been the lack of basic skills shown by the Welsh team and it shows in the lack of tries. Time and again they set up good attacks and exerted enormous pressure by going through numerous phases only for everything to flounder on a poor pass or an even worse bit of decision making.

Halfpenny has not improved at toulon. To those who say otherwise, Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
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Re: Lions by Country

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