Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

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Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:02 am

First topic message reminder :

Results

Scotland 27 - Ireland 22 Yahoo
France 22 - Scotland 16  Crying or Very sad
Scotland 29 - Wales 13  Yahoo
England 61 - Scotland 21  Shocked
Scotland 29 - Italy 0  Yahoo

Some stats:

- First time with 3 wins since 2006
- First opening round win and win over Wales in over a decade
- 14 tries scored - our best ever
- Our highest points tally (in 2014 we scored 45 points  Shocked )
- Up to 5th in the World Rankings


Verdict

Bar Twickenham this was a fantastic 6N where we won our games playing great rugby.  It was a huge monkey off our back to beat Wales and the Ireland game was a huge result for us.  The Twickenham game was a complete embarrassment but I'd like to think that was a freak result for this team as opposed to a sign that our wins over Wales and Ireland were 'lucky'.  It should keep the players grounded going forward, which is no bad thing.

All in all I'll give our 6N a 8/10

Lions hopefuls?

Pr - can't see any travelling
H Fraser Brown stands an outside chance, and could be injury cover
L - Jonny or Richie Gray stand a chance in the most competitive position
BR - I don't see any of our backrows going
SH - Laidlaw is down the list in terms of ability at 9 but may be picked as a good tourist/leader for the squad
FH - Finn Russell certainly divides opinion but personally I don't think he will travel
C - Dunbar and Jones are outside bets in what isn't actually a great position of depth for the Lions, but again may find themselves as injury cover
FR - Hogg is a near certainty and I can see another winger getting picked, probably Seymour

My prediction:

J Gray, Hogg, Seymour in the squad, Brown, Laidlaw and Jones as first choice injury cover.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 11:34 am

Kinghorn at his best - great try!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by George Carlin on Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am

So we're only 20 points behind?

Beg for mercy Kiwi scum. Whistle
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed May 31, 2017 11:55 am

Closer than prior games. Scotland need work on their tight tackling and ruck work. Backs need work at quick passing and running lines excepting the wings who have been solid. Hard to tell as NZ tend to be top of the class at rucking and line speed.

The difference from 5 years ago is that there were maybe 4-5 good players and everyone else was way off the pace. There is an improvement in quality all around the park for Scotland. The fitness is miles ahead and the depth is much improved. The lineout and maul work has been excellent. Scrum has not been completely mullered and has improved as the game has gone on. Next phase is cleaning up some of the kicking that was hit or miss and speeding up the passing. Both are fixable. This team are no pushovers.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 11:55 am

Great effort from Scotland - we would have been pumped by that team a few years ago and scored some great tries.

If we can keep everyone fit we stand a good chance of beating Ireland and Italy.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Wed May 31, 2017 11:57 am

We probably left a bonus point out there in that match. Silly mistakes costing us field position at the wrong times in the game. Our players may be a bit more physically up to the challenge these days, but they certainly have not had the miles on the clock rugby education that these NZ kids have had and when the pressure was on, that showed.

Still not going to be to hard. Our tournament will be defined by the games still to come and if we can tighten up our game for those ones, then we can certainly win some of them.


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Wed May 31, 2017 11:59 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Kinghorn at his best - great try!

Kinghorn never looks like he is moving very fast and yet he can clearly shift. He did not have his best game for sure, but that try showed why we need to persevere with him!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 12:04 pm

He's just so lackadaisical on the pitch and looks like he's playing tough rugby with his mates at times - that often comes with flair players but he really needs concentrate over the full 80 and not float in and out of games.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Wed May 31, 2017 12:06 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's just so lackadaisical on the pitch and looks like he's playing tough rugby with his mates at times - that often comes with flair players but he really needs concentrate over the full 80 and not float in and out of games.

I imagine that Cockers will be having a word in his ear about that, not really a style that will appeal to him!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 12:09 pm

That should have been touch rugby obviously, not tough...

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EST on Wed May 31, 2017 1:22 pm

I didn't see the Henderson score/Kinghorn break, but prior to that Kinghorn was probably the least effective Scottish player - missed kicks, poor passing and a lack of control. I really hope Edinburgh take better care of him next year, he has really struggled for long stretches this season.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed May 31, 2017 3:42 pm

Kinghorn has had a massive season in a terrible Edinburgh side. I think we need to cut him some slack. He's a bright talent in Scottish rugby in a position where we have one great player and very little to back him up. Even the mighty Stuart Hogg was a bit error prone in his earlier days, but what Kinghorn has is that ability to spot space and glide into it. A top speed he can really shift as well - he's deceptively quick.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 3:59 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Kinghorn has had a massive season in a terrible Edinburgh side. I think we need to cut him some slack. He's a bright talent in Scottish rugby in a position where we have one great player and very little to back him up. Even the mighty Stuart Hogg was a bit error prone in his earlier days, but what Kinghorn has is that ability to spot space and glide into it. A top speed he can really shift as well - he's deceptively quick.

Like a prop at a bufffet.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by IanBru on Wed May 31, 2017 4:08 pm

Interestingly, Italy beat Ireland today, 22-21, with the Irish missing a last minute penalty. This group is wide open, I think.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EST on Wed May 31, 2017 4:36 pm

IanBru wrote:Interestingly, Italy beat Ireland today, 22-21, with the Irish missing a last minute penalty. This group is wide open, I think.

Yeah, I think Ireland have struggled with injuries this season and we certainly have a shot at beating them.

I wasn't hugely impressed with NZ really, some of their back play was very good but they made a lot of mistakes you wouldn't have expected from any Kiwi team. Anyway, they were still several notches above our lads which shows you how far we have to go.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by nickj on Wed May 31, 2017 4:42 pm

I'm not a fan of shuggling square pegs... but watching the Scots match today and Edinburgh's games this season, I'm not completely convinced fullback is Kinghorn's best position. He's undoubtedly a talent - quick and tremendously skillful, but I'm not sure he relishes a one on one tackle and his kicking from hand wasn't on point today. I hope I'm wrong, but he's a big lad and I'd love to see him knocking guys to kingdom come.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 4:45 pm

Question is where does he play? If he's strong in open field running and has good skills, yet is flakey in defence and inconsistent is 10 really any better for him?

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by nickj on Wed May 31, 2017 4:54 pm

Good question. Could he become a roving wing? Coming inside to look for the ball and running his lovely, langid angles? I'm probably talking pish, but I'm just not convinced he's a fullback. On the flipside, he's in the under 20's, he's got plenty of time to nail it.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed May 31, 2017 4:56 pm

Also although he is tall he has no meat on him so he's not exactly going to be a physical carrier - he makes Jamie Ritchie look like Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed May 31, 2017 6:06 pm

He is definitely not a wing even if his hands and kicking were poor today. The tackling will likely improve (Exhibit A of who has done it: Hogg, Stuart and Exibit B of who is his coach: Cockerill, Richard)) as he gets older and fills out. If he can improve his tackling but not his kicking, maybe 13 a la Folau (who is a slightly better player admittedly)? Not got the pace for the wing. Not got the tackling for 12 even if he does improve. Like to keep him at full back until his passing improves.


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed May 31, 2017 8:21 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:He is definitely not a wing even if his hands and kicking were poor today. The tackling will likely improve (Exhibit A of who has done it: Hogg, Stuart and Exibit B of who is his coach: Cockerill, Richard)) as he gets older and fills out. If he can improve his tackling but not his kicking, maybe 13 a la Folau (who is a slightly better player admittedly)? Not got the pace for the wing. Not got the tackling for 12 even if he does improve. Like to keep him at full back until his passing improves.


I'd possibly disagree here, I think we might end up seeing him on the wing. He's deceptively fast, and he's already played for Edinburgh on the wing which may have been influenced by Cockerill.

I'm not saying that's going to be his best position, just that it's possible he might end up there. If he can bulk up a bit and work on his kicking and tackling he's likely to come good at FB, but I wouldn't rule playing on the wing out.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by jimbopip on Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:30 am

Gentlemen, I am sure you will all hack the early morning phlegm out of your throats and join me in wishing the Brumeister a happy fourteenth birthday.
Sing along boys

Hippo birdie two ewes
Hippo birdie two ewes
Hippo birdie deer Bru
Hippo birdie two ewes

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by tigertattie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:21 am

Two ewes?

is he part welsh?
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by George Carlin on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:31 am

jimbopip wrote:Gentlemen, I am sure you will all hack the early morning phlegm out of your throats and join me in wishing the Brumeister a happy fourteenth birthday.
Sing along boys

Hippo birdie two ewes
Hippo birdie two ewes
Hippo birdie deer Bru
Hippo birdie two ewes
Happy birthday young Bru.

Jim tells me that puberty is imminent for you, but that you really shouldn't worry too much about it.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:56 pm

Happy Birthday Bru. Must be nice still being at an age when such things can be celebrated....

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:13 pm

Scotland flying of to Singapore today appartently. That seems very early for a game next weekend, but at least they will have no excuse for not being acclimatised. I am imagining that it will be pretty hot and humid out there.

Or maybe they are flying with BA and are factoring in some time for IT related flight delays and lost baggage.

Still nothing about TV coverage for these games either, which is a little bit of a worry.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:17 pm

Good interview with Duncan Taylor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40126199

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by GLove39 on Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Great news everyone, did a bit of browsing & turns out we've got coverage for 2/3s of the tour!

10th June
Scotland V Italy 1pm
BBC 1 Scotland

17th June
Scotland V Australia 6am
Sky Sports 1

24th June
Scotland V Fiji
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:44 am

Scotland under 20s BP win over Ireland 32-28 with some great tries scored!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by BigGee on Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:51 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotland under 20s BP win over Ireland 32-28 with some great tries scored!

A very good result, just very frustrating that the live streaming was not working. Some people seemed to be able to see it via the facebook stream, but that did not work for me either.

Looking forward to the highlights. Another crop of talented kids in this group and it will be interesting to see how they progress.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:55 am

Yeah I watched it on facebook live. We have a good lineout, great driving maul and real pace and skill out wide. D'Arcy Graham is a special player.

Still did some stupid things and it would have been a comfortable win if our goal kickers weren't absolutely rotten but you can't have everything!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by eirebilly on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:01 pm

Your Scottish boys just seemed to have that little bit extra everytime it was required. It was a very entertaining game. I had it on the Premier HD channel.

Some serious talent coming through for ye Scots. Well done clap
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:04 pm

Worth saying we looked very organised and well drilled - John Dalzeil iis certainly building his coaching reputation.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by eirebilly on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:06 pm

Also, this was a very strong U20 Ireland side, one that I certainly had high hopes for.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:07 pm

I'll echo what others have said, that D'Arcy Graham looked very good.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:08 pm

eirebilly wrote:Also, this was a very strong U20 Ireland side, one that I certainly had high hopes for.

What's happened? Ireland have never lost to Italy and Scotland at that level as far as I know!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by jimbopip on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:10 pm


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by eirebilly on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:21 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Also, this was a very strong U20 Ireland side, one that I certainly had high hopes for.

What's happened? Ireland have never lost to Italy and Scotland at that level as far as I know!

Composure against Italy and just out played by your lads. Some cracking moves from your lads and you always felt that they were going to outscore Ireland no matter what. Was a very good game.
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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by jimbopip on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:26 pm

RDW, this D'Arcy Graham fellow looks good. I'm slightly confused; was he with the good guys and recently went over to the Dark Side? Or was he a trainee Luvvie and saw the light and moved west?
I know he has been playing well for the Under-20's but that doesn't mean he's a Glasgow player: he probably hasn't been at Edinburgh long enough for their coaching methods to have stifled his natural flair, yet.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:42 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yeah I watched it on facebook live. We have a good lineout, great driving maul and real pace and skill out wide. D'Arcy Graham is a special player.

Still did some stupid things and it would have been a comfortable win if our goal kickers weren't absolutely rotten but you can't have everything!

I pray to the good Lord that the "Edinburgh Effect" doesn't ruin him. Graham, Hoyland and Kinghorn is a back three bursting with promise, particularly once we get Bennett back at 13. I'd renew my season ticket to watch that group.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:48 am

I feel bad saying this but the concern about his size will always be there - of course we've had lots of big, slow wingers and we should be excited about someone with electric pace and skill, but this kid is tiny. There's only so much bulk someone like him can put on and the reality is that you see very few pro wingers of his size.

He's 5ft 9 and under 12 stone.

I really hope I'm proven wrong though - problem for him is that he's got to do it in an Edinburgh team coached by Duncan Hodge! I suspect he'll spend most of next season in the 7s team though.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:04 am

I hope that Cockerill sees his attacking potential and seeks to harness it. He's pretty close to Shane Williams dimensions and I'm fairly certain a few doubting Daffyd's will have told wee Shane a few times that he's too small to play pro rugby. Jason Robinson was also a very similar size.

Those are legends of the game so I'm not saying Graham will get there, and I do think he could put on a bit more weight (half a stone or so would probably help him rather than hinder), but given the complete festering turds of wingers we've had over the years, slow of thought and foot, I'd be very happy defending Cockerill should he simply slap the 11 jersey on Graham's back and give him a season.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:06 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I hope that Cockerill sees his attacking potential and seeks to harness it. He's pretty close to Shane Williams dimensions and I'm fairly certain a few doubting Daffyd's will have told wee Shane a few times that he's too small to play pro rugby. Jason Robinson was also a very similar size.

Those are legends of the game so I'm not saying Graham will get there, and I do think he could put on a bit more weight (half a stone or so would probably help him rather than hinder), but given the complete festering turds of wingers we've had over the years, slow of thought and foot, I'd be very happy defending Cockerill should he simply slap the 11 jersey on Graham's back and give him a season.

Steady now - he's got Jason Harries to contend with!

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by EST on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:17 am

Graham really has been the standout at U20 for a couple of years now - concerns about his size are valid, but considering how good he has been up until this point, I am really hopeful he will be able to make the same step up.

The Harries decision still baffles me, perhaps he will be decent enough to provide some go-forward against the lower table teams, but his signing shows very little/no ambition

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:22 am

Unfortunately the highlights didn't show Kinghorn's fantastic galloping break leading up to Graham's 2nd try - I'll try and find it in the full game version unless someone beats me to it.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:51 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Unfortunately the highlights didn't show Kinghorn's fantastic galloping break leading up to Graham's 2nd try - I'll try and find it in the full game version unless someone beats me to it.

Where are the highlights available?

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:52 am


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:56 am

Skip to 13:10 on the video to see Kinghorn's fantastic break


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X437REq2jUY


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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:10 pm

Awesome - thanks. Will watch at lunchtime.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by Majestic83 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:47 pm


ITV4 are showing all the highlights of the u20s world cup as well.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:28 pm

That break is absolute class from Kinghorn, and Graham can really shift. I really hope Hodge can figure out how to use these guys next season.

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Re: Scotland 2017 6N debrief and Lions/Summer Tour lookahead

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