Miami

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Miami

Post by Guest82 on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 5:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

Draw is out.

Projected Q/F:
Wawrinka v Goffin
Federer v Thiem
Raonic v Rafa
Nishikori v Cilic

Del Potro draws Fed in R3. Kyrgios in Goffin quarter (so potential Stan QF). Alex Zverev could play Stan in R4. Dimitrov in Rafa's quarter.

Kyle Edmund plays a qualifier then Mischa Zverev. Dan Evans plays a qualifier then Verdasco. Good draws for them.

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 3:44 am

temporary21 wrote:No idea what you do. They might have to restart points if the umpire spots a clear crowd call
But you cannot do that, because then fans could do it intentionally to help their player too.  I do not think there is all that much you can do.  If you can clearly identify an individual, then you evict them, otherwise you need to live with it.  I will say again, Nick has - to a large extent - himself to blame.  The crowd was always going to be pro-Fed, but Nick got them going with his unsporstmanlike behavior.  I am not too bothered by his antics, but he needs to be ready to take the consequences.

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Re: Miami

Post by temporary21 on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 3:47 am

I guess we differ irrevocably here
It just taints the integrity of a contest. They were having real Mano a Mano tussle. Then at the final phase the crowd decide they're more important  than the match
It's not ok because one players a bad guy. Anyone with respect for sport as a contest wouldn't do that

It's a real bugbear of mine I must say. Tennis is by no means the only time you see this

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 3:53 am

But crowd did not do it out of thin air.  If Nick behaved himself and was not throwing his racquet here and there, that would have never happened.  Once he starts doing that, what right does he have to whine about the crowd?  Is it ok if he acts like a jerk but not ok if the crowd does that?

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Re: Miami

Post by temporary21 on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 3:58 am

But as I say. It's not nick
I've seen plenty of crowds do it to people who don't misbehave at all

Novak lost a couple of rgs on double faults brought in part by crowds calling out

They do it to help their favoured guy win, not as a response to throwing Raquet

The crowd should have no entitlement to directly put a player off during a point

Sure give him stick between points, not during


Anyway it's 4 in the morning and I really need to slep

The finals Sunday right?


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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 4:01 am

Yes, Sunday.

Of course crowd is not entitled to do that, and of course they should kick out whoever does that if they can identify them, but in the end there is only so much one can do.  And in this particular instance, I find it hard to feel sorry for Nick (though I agree there are instances where a player is in it innocently and one does feel sorry for them).

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Re: Miami

Post by temporary21 on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 4:02 am

Oh dear. That's my bday celebration

I might be too p@ssed to watch it

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 4:51 am

Oh happy birthday then! Just have fun and who cares about tennis?

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 6:19 am

It is probably better to play in front of a boisterous packed crowd for huge sums of money, than play to an empty gallery and receive peanuts.

Here is the prize money on offer at Miami

Men & Women's Singles
•Winner: $1,175,505
•Runner Up: $573,680
•Semifinalist: $287,515
•Quarterfinalist: $146,575
•Fourth Round: $77,265
•Third Round: $41,350
•Second Round: $22,325
•First Round: $13,609

Men & Women's Doubles
•Winning Team: $385,170
•Runners Up: $187,970
•Semifinalist: $94,220
•Quarterfinalist: $48,010
•Round of 16: $25,320
•First Round: $13,550

Miami also pay something called fees
ATP Tour - Fees: $919,955
WTA Tour - Fees: $675,973

That money is generated because tennis is seen as entertainment rather than sport.  In fact nowadays the term professional sport is coming to mean entertainment.  Maybe sport has always meant entertainment.  The romans built a Colosseum for it. Christians versus the Lions. Barbarians versus the Lions. Kiwis versus the Lions.

Well done to both Federer and Kyrgios.  Kyrgios is getting better and better while Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic, Wawrinka get older.

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Re: Miami

Post by Josiah Maiestas on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 10:36 am

Federer might be injured because he's hardly flowing anymore. Straight forward win for Toni.
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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 7:53 pm

Johanna Konta takes the Miami title beating Wozniacki in straight sets.   Her best match was probably beating Venus Williams in the semi-final, but the final probably tested her mental resolve more.  She also beat World no 3 Halep in the quarterfinals in three sets, breaking Halep in the second set when Halep was a break up and serving for the match - that required great physical endurance.  I think she now moves up to 7th in the world rankings.

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Re: Miami

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 8:00 pm

Yes, an excellent win for Konta and a career-high position awaits on Monday morning.

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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 12:46 am

If I remember rightly, Kyrgios serving at 5-4 in the third set tiebreak, two serves for the match. The first one he faults on the first serve. Second serve he really went for it, it was like a first serve, very good, but Federer neutralised it brilliantly, got it back very deep. And then the point after that the double fault again went bold on the second serve, didn't work.

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Re: Miami

Post by lags72 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 1:06 am

I guess there is a time to "be bold" - and a time to go for the percentage shot.

Kyrgios still has relatively little experience (compared to, say, most top ten players) at the very top end, but will learn from this. There is no doubt that he is a prodigious talent and will achieve much success in the game, provided he can stay focused.

I see very little fuss being made - in the general media - of any crowd-related issues. When all said & done, it is what it is and there is often noise in big matches. And many reports have described this as one of THE matches of the season so far - perhaps even the very best 3-setter ....a thrilling, pulsating contest of contrasting styles.

Kyrgios played extremely well (as well as he has ever played ....?) ; but equally, Federer held firm and showed enormous grit himself in the third - just when you might reasonably have expected him to flag.

Here's to a good Final.

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Re: Miami

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:35 am

At least Fed chose the right tournament to have an ultra-long semi in that he got a day off before the final.
Sure, Rafa will be much the fresher of the two, now. But many will recall Andy being given no chance at the WTF final against Djoko last November, coming off a 3hr 38min match against Raonic. So anything could happen, although I would favour Rafa for this one.
Win or lose, Rafa appears to be in good shape for the clay-court season and the way things are going he won't have to face Murray or Djoko before the semis in the upcoming tournaments.

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 11:25 am

You wait for a fedal bus for ages and then three turn up together: Australian Open (Federer wins in four sets), Indian Wells (Federer wins in two) and now the Miami Open. Federer aged 35, Nadal aged 30 - a five year age difference. Federer continues to adapt with an aging body.

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Re: Miami

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 11:35 am

No name Bertie wrote:You wait for a fedal bus for ages and then three turn up together: Australian Open (Federer wins in four sets), Indian Wells (Federer wins in two) and now the Miami Open.  Federer aged 35, Nadal aged 30 - a five year age difference.   Federer continues to adapt with an aging body.

With Murray and Djoko turning 30 in May and with other contenders such as Stan the Man, Tsonga, Berdych, also all into their fourth decade there's a good chance that many of the tournaments will be won by 30-somethings this year. I'll stick my neck out and say all four Slams in 2017 will go to over-30s - and probably the majority of the 1,000-pointers too.

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 11:51 am

The biggest surprise has been how quickly Djokovic has fallen away after holding all four slam titles at the same time and appearing to be invincible.  He just seems to be missing something.  Maybe, and this is complete speculation, he was taking an enhancer that has now been put on the banned list (like Sharapova - who only got caught out because she was too cavalier in not paying attention to changes in guidelines).  Or maybe it is something psychological - burn out after all the years of intense physical effort.

Of the next generation both Zverev and Krygios are looking to be the real deal. Big serving Raonic seems to have gone awol. Presumably some form of injury - but when his serve is firing he has a chance on the faster courts, as last years Wimbledon showed.

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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:05 pm

No name Bertie wrote:The biggest surprise has been how quickly Djokovic has fallen away after holding all four slam titles at the same time and appearing to be invincible.  He just seems to be missing something.  Maybe, and this is complete speculation, he was taking an enhancer that has now been put on the banned list (like Sharapova - who only got caught out because she was too cavalier in not paying attention to changes in guidelines).  Or maybe it is something psychological - burn out after all the years of intense physical effort.

Of the next generation both Zverev and Krygios are looking to be the real deal.  Big serving Raonic seems to have gone awol.  Presumably some form of injury - but when his serve is firing he has a chance on the faster courts, as last years Wimbledon showed.

There really are no mysteries to Novak's demise. Sure it has come as a surprise but even he has tapped into what the problem is/was.

He had strived so long to win the French Open and finally did it last year to complete the calendar grand slam. He has said that a few days after the win he sat and thought now what? He struggled for motivation to train and practice.This is backed up by comments made by his former coach Boris Becker. Some reports suggest he was having problems in his personal life as well so tennis probably was not the most important thing for him around then. And if you don't train or practice as hard and don't have 100% commitment losses set in, you lose matches you used to win, confidence takes a blow and the aura of invincibility goes. He is still stuck somewhat in that rut but who knows all he needs is a great draw, plenty of upsets in the other half of a draw at a slam and manage to win one and he'd be suitably lifted to start dominating again.
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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:31 pm

Before moving on from Kyrgios, for those that's missed it, he smahed a racket on his way to the handshake with Federer, half way or more to the net. Federer looked slightly embarassed. Kyrgios seem to break an unwritten rule that you don't show any negative emotion between the last ball falling and the handshake (if not the locker room).

Ok that's enough about Kyrgios for now. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of him later in the year.

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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:33 pm

That's a good, sensible analysis cc. However, it's the most obvious explanation and perhaps the most likely but that doesn't make it the right one. I don't think we know for sure whether or not it is right, or whether there is something else going on.


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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:36 pm

Fed's timing is a little off today so far.

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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:37 pm

Henman Bill wrote:That's a good, sensible analysis cc. However, it's almost the most obvious solution. I don't think we know for sure whether or not it is right, or whether there is something else going on.

Well that comes from both Novak and Boris so who are we to argue with that? That is the part about Novak saying he was asking himself now what and not training or practicing as hard. Boris says much the same.
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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:07 pm

Fair enough I haven't followed the interviews as closely as you.

Back to Roger, he looks a little fatigued to me. I think he would be very relieved to avoid a decider here.

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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:17 pm

Pretty hot out there, looked online and it says about 28C now.

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Re: Miami

Post by lags72 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:22 pm

I suspect it's not really about temperature, per se.

As ever, it's the humidity that gets to players more than anything else ; and by all accounts, it's very humid out there today.

Historically, Federer has always coped in difficult weather conditions pretty much as well as anyone on Tour (I don't know of anyone who has less trouble) - and better than many, many others.

But he's giving away a sizeable age difference to Rafa - quite apart from the respective number of hours spent on court to actually get to the Final.

I'll take Rafa to come through this match.

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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:31 pm

If Roger loses it won't be because of the conditions. Is it me or does Rafa seem a little slower around the court now. He has been caught trying to guess directions of shots before they are hit whereas Rafa of old would wait until it was hit and still get there.
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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:35 pm

I think Federer is a little tired from the weeks of tennis this year and Friday's match, but in cool conditions he could handle this easier enough. That's why I think hot and humid conditions favour the player who is slightly fresher, irrespective of how they normally handle them. This may not be true lol, but that's what I'm getting at.

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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:37 pm

Henman Bill wrote:I think Federer is a little tired from the weeks of tennis this year and Friday's match, but in cool conditions he could handle this easier enough. That's why I think hot and humid conditions favour the player who is slightly fresher, irrespective of how they normally handle them. This may not be true lol, but that's what I'm getting at.

If it goes long then I'd agree with you but Rafa has to win this set first before we get to that stage.
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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:42 pm

Federer breaks and will serve for the title. I'd say that is about it.
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Re: Miami

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:47 pm

Well played Roger who wins 6-3 6-4. Rafa continues to knock on the door but is still waiting for it to open.
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Re: Miami

Post by laverfan on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:51 pm

Congrats to Federer on one more IW-Miami double. clap clap

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Re: Miami

Post by lags72 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:55 pm

Rafa was 10-1 in sets here in Miami in his path to the Final, so was looking pretty good.

It took the oldest guy in the Top 50 to stop him winning a first Miami title today.

Congrats to the Fed.

His storybook start to the season continues clap

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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:06 pm

IW-Miami double has been done four times in a row now. Amazing effort by Djokovic to win it three times in a row and four in total including 2011.

Federer has now done this three times, do Djokovic is still ahead 4-3 in IW-Miami doubles.

Andre Agassi managed it once, the only other man to achieve this feat since 2000.

Djokovic in 2015 went on to add Monte Carlo as well, I'm not sure Federer will manage that. It starts in 2 weeks and I expect he will decide to take off at least 3 weeks at this point.


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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:06 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote: He had strived so long to win the French Open and finally did it last year to complete the calendar grand slam. He has said that a few days after the win he sat and thought now what? He struggled for motivation to train and practice.This is backed up by comments made by his former coach Boris Becker. Some reports suggest he was having problems in his personal life as well so tennis probably was not the most important thing for him around then. And if you don't train or practice as hard and don't have 100% commitment losses set in, you lose matches you used to win, confidence takes a blow and the aura of invincibility goes. He is still stuck somewhat in that rut but who knows all he needs is a great draw, plenty of upsets in the other half of a draw at a slam and manage to win one and he'd be suitably lifted to start dominating again.
There is probably a message of life in these words of wisdom. Once you take the foot off the gas it is difficult to get back going again. If you fall off the horse you have to get back on it straight away, otherwise the horse runs off and you end up chasing it for the rest of your life.

Well done Roger Federer. Was there any doubting this man? He knows how to beat Nadal, and Nadal knows how to lose to Federer. But Nadal has done very well getting back to the top level. Next up the clay season. There must be a good chance of him getting his tenth French Open title. I can see only Djokovic, Wawrinka or injury stopping him.

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Re: Miami

Post by temporary21 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:13 pm

An extraordinary start to the season
Almost inconceivable given his age and injuries that he could go this long


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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:15 pm

Great backhand half volley baseline to baseline from Federer at 0-15, not the first time he has done it recently. And Rafa's head went down, literally, and it was easy from there.

Kyrgios turned out to be the harder match although I think Rafa would have likely won a decider, Federer looked fatigued.

He will need some serious rest from here. I think Rafa missed an opportunity, he still isn't back to his best. With all these wins in a row from Federer, it's no longer a guarantee that Rafa wins if they meet on clay, it may be close to 50/50 at the moment.

I do think Federer will play at least 1-2 tournaments in the clay season, we'll see, but it would be interesting to see a clay meeting with Rafa at this point.

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Re: Miami

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:23 pm

I thought Rog's long semi will tell against him. But, as in the AO final this year, the service stats are particularly telling. Rafa is getting a lot of first serves in but is winning far fewer points with them than Rog.
This is like the mid-2000s, with Fed winning the AO, IW and Miami triple. The head-to-head with Rafa is looking a bit more even now, altho Nadal is still well ahead.
One or two more big-point tournament wins and you would have to say that Fed had a good chance of getting back to number one. Incredible.

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest82 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:24 pm

Fed has apparently just said he will only play RG on clay.

Amazing how this rivalry has turned around this year. Nadal now lacks the confidence in the big moments. First set was very close, Nadal had break points but couldn't take them...Fed just played the big points better.

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Re: Miami

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 8:50 pm

Guest82 wrote:Fed has apparently just said he will only play RG on clay.


Thanks for reporting that.

Would like to see exact quote and source when it becomes available, just to see precisely what's been said here.

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest82 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 9:00 pm

I read it on twitter - apparently he said "I probably won't play any clay tournements, except for the French"

https://twitter.com/stu_fraser/status/848613185724837893

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Re: Miami

Post by mthierry on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 9:05 pm

It's weird that a 30-year-old has seen a considerably more evident decline than a 35-year-old, but it looks to be the case now with Nadal. Throughout his career, he has always had significant problems with his technical skills and tactical approach, but his robust physicality, intensity, focus and incredible depth of willpower and resilience often saw him through. There's nowhere to hide now that his physical qualities are on the wane and his confidence in the big moments has taken a battering with far too many decisive losses and this has chipped away even at the technical parts of his game.

Good luck with injuries, intense focus and hardwork, and a radical overhaul of his coaching set-up with fresh ideas and a fresh approach might see him return to a formidable level. Else, he's only gonna become cannon fodder for the big boys. He wouldn't have beaten Kyrgios today, nevermind other big 4 players.

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Re: Miami

Post by mthierry on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 9:11 pm

I guess the complete picture of where Nadal stands will be clear after the clay season, but I've seen enough to suggest he'll struggle even on clay. In the big matches, I'd fancy any of Nole, Andy, Stan and even the likes of Nishikori to beat him. And if Federer beat him at RG, he might as well retire.

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Re: Miami

Post by laverfan on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:41 am

mthierry wrote:Good luck with injuries, intense focus and hardwork, and a radical overhaul of his coaching set-up with fresh ideas and a fresh approach might see him return to a formidable level.

Moya in his coaching team is indeed a radical change. Father Time waits for no one, not even Federer, who will directly play RG 2017, otherwise his career will face the same physical issues as Nadal.

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:38 am

Henman Bill wrote:Great backhand half volley baseline to baseline from Federer at 0-15
I loved that shot.

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:44 am

As glad as I am to see Fed finally getting some wins over Rafa, rather than seeing subpar Rafa offering little resistance, I would be happier to see someone else giving Fed a run for his money.

I know that Rafa is #2 in the race, but I am still not convinced that he is playing all that much better than he was playing last year.  He was quite poor today, and he was not all that great in IW either.  He was better at the AO, but even there he was making errors that the Rafa of old would not have been making.  It will be interesting to see how he does on clay.  My hunch is that he will not dominate.  I expect he will be one of the best players on clay this year, maybe even the best player, but that the titles will be shared among a bunch of guys.  If I were to guess, I would say he is more likely to not win RG than to win it.

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Re: Miami

Post by Guest on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:49 am

Rafael Nadal will likely be leading the points race after the clay season.

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Re: Miami

Post by summerblues on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:01 am

No name Bertie wrote:Rafael Nadal will likely be leading the points race after the clay season.
Hah! Indeed. Have not thought of it that way.

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Re: Miami

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:23 am

Rafa was poor today but Fed wasn't much better either; just a bit better. They both faced so many BPs, not a good quality match. Had Rafa took one of those BPs in the first set, the match might become more competitive.

Rafa's FH was ok in the first set but became bad in the second. His serve was surprisingly quite good esp in saving BPs. I feel Rafa was too tentative this IW and Miami, playing from way behind the baseline instead of stepping forward to play with more aggression. Perhaps, he's preparing for the clay season, and, seeing how Fed plays so far this season on the HCs, he's not of the belief that he could beat Fed.

I doubt Djoko and Murray could play as well on clay as they did in 2016, they're short of match plays so far this season. Rafa will be all ready for doing well on clay, given that he has already reached three HC finals despite not playing his best tennis, he should be full of confidence. I think he's the fav for winning the FO this year and if he wins the masters too, he will overtake Fed in the race.

Fed is smart enough to skip most of the clay season and concentrates on grass. I do feel if Rafa does well on clay winning the FO, he'll be full of confidence for the second half HC season. If Djoko and Murray don't come back to their top form, Fedal will dominate and be the top two guys this season.

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Re: Miami

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:43 am

Strange that when Rafa reached three HC finals, people here still think that he's playing so badly that he can never return to his winning ways! Don't forget, in 2014 Rafa who's still playing good tennis, won at Doha and Rio, Final at AO and Miami, but reached R3 at IW, was only 360 points better than this current Rafa! And that Rafa was no.1 in the world! Rafa had done better on clay in 2016 at the Masters and Barcelona then he did in 2014 and only a wrist injury had prevented him from going further at the FO, when he had to withdraw. Rafa now has a good chance of sweeping up some big titles on clay, including the FO, while Djoko and Murray are away injured and will be lacking in match play. I mean is Rafa the king of clay that bad, that he would lose to Djoko and Murray on clay when they are just back from injury?? So little respect for and belief in Rafa even on clay?? If Rafa can reach finals on HCs, what more can he do on clay which is his forte?

Fed was on fire but, don't forget that's because he had his six months break to rest and work on his game. To say that this Fed would even beat Rafa on clay to me it's being ridiculous, when Rafa despite playing badly, still could manufacture so many BPs against Fed on the HCs, what more on clay?


Belovedluckyboy

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Re: Miami

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:53 am

BLBoy - Some sound points there. I think you're absolutely right to say that we must expect a good clay-court season from Rafa. I have him as favourite for the French (mind you, I also tipped him at RG in 2015 and 2016!).
Like many I suspect, I can't quite get my head round Rog's staggering return. If he didn't play again this season he would probably still be top 10 with the incredible number of points he's got already.

sirfredperry

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Re: Miami

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