F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

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F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Fernando on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Having been comfortably bested by Ferrari in Monaco, Mercedes hit back with an equally dominant win of their own in Canada last time out. The question is, with the Prancing Horse’s Sebastian Vettel now just 12 points ahead of Silver Arrows rival Lewis Hamilton in the drivers’ standings, who will have the upper hand this weekend as F1 returns to Baku for a second time?

Ferrari versus Mercedes, part 8

It’s the eighth race of the year, and still Ferrari and Mercedes are separated on performance by the smallest of margins.

The pendulum has swung back and forth over the last couple of races, though much of that has come down to individual fortunes rather than to one team having a genuine upper hand. Sebastian Vettel’s clash with Max Verstappen at the start in Montreal, which damaged his front wing and forced him into making an early pit stop, being a case in point.

“The pace we were able to show, despite some damage to the bargeboards and floor, shows that we have a very quick car,” the German says - and with Hamilton’s tyre struggles on the streets of Monaco, could the red car be quickest once more on what will be a similar surface?

It’s worth remembering that Mercedes dominated this race a year ago, with Nico Rosberg taking a Grand Slam victory. But it was far from plain sailing for Hamilton who crashed in qualifying and then trailed in fifth after engine settings issues in the race.

This year the Briton is expecting no such troubles, with his preparation for Baku beginning before the chequered flag had fallen in Canada when he banged in the fastest lap late in the race. That, as Hamilton explained, wasn’t out of boredom or grandstanding. No, it was much more pragmatic than that.

“I wanted to come back and give my engineers as much feedback as I could,” he said. “The car runs in different states during a race, so I put in the various modes to go as fast as the car allowed so that I could give them a lot of information from that maxed lap to help them set the car up for the next race. If I hadn’t done that lap I would have come away after an hour and 45 minutes, and not given them as much information as I could have.”

All things being equal, expect the two teams to be neck-and-neck again this weekend.

Will Red Bull’s podium charge continue?

After missing the rostrum in the opening four races, Daniel Ricciardo has finished on the podium in each of the last three Grands Prix. The Australian - something of a street circuit specialist - would dearly like to make it four in a row this weekend on a circuit he enjoys.



“Baku in my opinion is quite a special street circuit, it’s really unique in terms of having quite wide sections but also some of the tightest parts of track on the calendar,” Ricciardo says. “Sector 2 is tighter than parts of Monaco, which has always been regarded as really narrow and challenging. When you drive up into the old town and past the castle it is fun and tricky but also amazing to watch as a spectator. That section of the track is my favourite. The straight is quick but seems to go on for a long time and gives you a chance to relax a bit.”

Team mate Max Verstappen is also a fan of the Azerbaijani track, and having retired from three of the last five races, he has more desire than most to get a good result this weekend.

“Another street circuit is exciting for me as I really enjoy those types of tracks,” he says. “It doesn’t suit our car that much but there are a lot of opportunities for things to happen...”


The dust settles at Force India

Could Force India have finished higher than fifth and sixth in Canada? Should Sergio Perez have yielded to give young team mate Esteban Ocon a chance at attacking Daniel Ricciardo for P3? Will the Mexican’s refusal have any repercussions going forward?

These questions and more have been debated in the aftermath of the race in Montreal – but Perez remains steadfast in his belief that the team operated correctly.

“There were a lot of things said after Montreal and lots of different opinions, but I’m pleased the team decided to let us race without team orders,” he say

Blue flag rules given a tweak

Following complaints from some drivers that lapping traffic this year is harder than in the past - largely because the 2017 aerodynamic regulations make it difficult to closely follow the car ahead - the blue flag rules have been tweaked ahead of this weekend’s race.

Faster drivers now have to be 1.2s behind a backmarker (up from 1s) before blue flags are automatically triggered, obliging the slower car to cede position at the earliest possible opportunity.

Will that help the leaders to the extent that they hope? Only time will tell…


Last edited by Fernando on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 9:14 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 9:22 pm

Sounds like McLarens higher ups have told them to ditch Honda.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:34 am

I think pieces are already being moved behind the scenes, it's three years down the drain, so I would assume McLaren will take Mercedes engines next season?

But then, the other notable stuff this week, was Eddie Jordan's comments about Mercedes returning to just being an engine supplier from 2019. Why announce something like that? I don't trust either him or Toto's denial, but with Liberty probably looking to ditch these hybrid engines at the next available opportunity, I do wonder if Mercedes are contemplating returning to being solely an engine supplier? Red Bull & McLaren clearly are in need of engine deals going forward, so I do wonder if some long term negotiations are taking place. Might be all nonsense, but I guess that's the fun of it all & something to discuss.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:03 pm

The chassis is obviously competitive, question is whether what spec they get from Merc. If they go back to McLaren Mercedes then might be legs in Merc walking away.

Would probably keep Fernando around
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 08 Jun 2017, 2:24 pm

I also think Mercedes will quit when the hybrid engines are removed. They only joined as a manufacturer when they where assured that the hybrids where guaranteed.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:47 am

I really hope hybrid engines are ditched. They make the cars ridiculously complicated and needlessly expensive (especially since the size reduction), for relatively little environmental benefit.

Hybrid tech is already well established in the road car market anyway.

Still wish McLaren would start making their own F1 engines (especially if hybrids are ditched)...I'm pretty sure their backers could afford to bankroll it.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:I really hope hybrid engines are ditched. They make the cars ridiculously complicated and needlessly expensive (especially since the size reduction), for relatively little environmental benefit.

Hybrid tech is already well established in the road car market anyway.

Still wish McLaren would start making their own F1 engines (especially if hybrids are ditched)...I'm pretty sure their backers could afford to bankroll it.

The issue for McLaren is how to replace the £100m a season Honda are paying into the team - without that there's no finding £40m for Alonso, though granted he'll struggle to find that elsewhere given the big teams seem to have their lineups sorted
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

They're losing a similar amount in sponsorship given their positions at the back.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:25 pm

GSC wrote:They're losing a similar amount in sponsorship given their positions at the back.

Exactly.

That £100m won't go far if potential sponsors start to see them as irrelevant to the sport, because they're at the back of the grid, or failing to finish races.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 6:57 pm

Some pretty ridiculous Q3 stuff from Hamilton & Vettel

Hamilton 0.004 quicker than Vettel

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 7:00 pm

Hamilton pole. Incredible lap

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:07 pm

Hamilton's favourite track and he nailed a lap.

Problem is he really needs Bottas to start beating Vettel

Don't underestimate the job Rosberg did for the team...
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 4:48 pm

Well it shows Merc still have the ultimate pace...although Ferrari aren't that far behind.

Problem is Ferrari seem to run better in race trim. They're also pretty handy off the grid.

Also, IIRC Merc will be starting on Ultras, while Ferrari will be on Supers. If so, Ferrari will be able to run longer and maybe get the undercut (assuming they don't get past on the start).

Still far from done and dusted.

Very nice gesture from the Senna family to give Hamilton one of Ayrton's helmets. Get the feeling that will take pride of place in his memorabilia room.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 7:04 pm

Vettel down to fourth & slight wing damage

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 7:13 pm

Ferrari have had a mare

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Just John on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

Enjoyable tussle for third, fourth & fifth. FI & Perez brought that on themselves. Good recovery from Vettel.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Fernando on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:37 pm

Ocon could of got 3rd if Perez let him past, With 13 laps younger tyres & a merc engine he'd have sailed past Ricciardo

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:37 pm

Stupid and selfish by Sergio Perez...cost his team a podium. Ocon was on much fresher tyres and could probably have caught Ricciardo.

Mind you the pit wall were just as bad, fannying around asking him to move instead of just ordering him to switch places. picard

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:39 pm

Unbelieveable bad luck for Alonso...engine giving up AGAIN with just 2 laps to go. Was on to score McLaren's first point of the season. steam


Anyway, good win for Hamilton. Nailed the start and controlled the restart well. Never looked in serious trouble. Good result for Bottas too.

Ricciardo seems to have made 3rd place his this season. Don't think he could have done much more. Awful luck for Verstappen to go out like that while 2nd.

Decent rescue job by Ferrari after an awful start. Congrats to Stroll on scoring his first points at his home GP. OK



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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:45 pm

Thoroughly enjoyed that tussle! And ill be honest, I think good on Perez for not letting Ocon past. Every time the whole team order argument crops up at the top of the order i.e. Ferrari etc...everyone is up in arms and saying let them race, now suddenly people are of the mind Perez should have let him past? Why...because Ocon had a chance for podium? So what...if he had that good a pace and chance at 3rd he would have found a way around his teammate...like Vettel did!

Simple fact is...these guys are RACING drivers...not bus drivers. That was one of the best race spectacles in a long time and you'll get no complaints from me about what we just watched.

Move of the day...Maxie V! Amazing start and the replay didn't do his driving justice...he didn't just go up through the side, he literally weaved his way through at great speed.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:55 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Thoroughly enjoyed that tussle! And ill be honest, I think good on Perez for not letting Ocon past. Every time the whole team order argument crops up at the top of the order i.e. Ferrari etc...everyone is up in arms and saying let them race, now suddenly people are of the mind Perez should have let him past? Why...because Ocon had a chance for podium? So what...if he had that good a pace and chance at 3rd he would have found a way around his teammate...like Vettel did!

Simple fact is...these guys are RACING drivers...not bus drivers. That was one of the best race spectacles in a long time and you'll get no complaints from me about what we just watched.

Move of the day...Maxie V! Amazing start and the replay didn't do his driving justice...he didn't just go up through the side, he literally weaved his way through at great speed.

Difference being Vettel was in a clearly superior car. Much harder to overtake when you're racing someone in basically the same car as you. picard

In case you didn't notice Ocon tried a few times to get past, but just didn't have enough of an advantage to overtake cleanly and safely. He could have tried high risk move and taken them both out, a la Hamilton and Rosberg in Spain.

Also, since you obviously missed this, F1 is a TEAM sport and when your team asks you to do something for the benefit of the TEAM, you should damn well do it (and this was NOT like the Hamilton - Rosberg incident in Austria, as Rosberg was not on Hamilton's gearbox when he asked the team to be let past).

Consequently, FI missed out on 4th and 5th and Ocon was denied the chance to challenge Ricciardo for a podium...all because Perez could only think of himself.

For the record I'm not a fan of team orders, but logic clearly dictated they should have been implemented in this case.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by owen10ozzy on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 9:05 pm

Dyre - Well aware that Ferrari is the much better package...no need for the sarcastic head shake. You mentioned that Ocon could have tried a high risk move, which is not without it's dangers obviously, but it's exactly what Vettel had to do to get past Ocon anyhow...even with the much better car you spoke of.

And yes I am well aware that F1 is a team sport...but when you race in a team that isn't competing for podiums week in week out then as a RACER...of course individually the likes of Perez etc will not want to adhere to team orders and will want the opportunity of a possible podium for themself not their team mate.

I know fully where you are coming from in terms of it made more sense for Ocon to be allowed past Perez...but since the team essentially suggested the idea rather than firmly told Perez (which showed a real lack of leadership within the upper management) then for me the onus goes on to the driver to make it happen..Ocon couldn't for whatever reason.

Like I said, putting logic and all else aside, it was just fantastic to see some real competitive driving between multiple positions at the top end for a change.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Fri 16 Jun 2017, 9:03 pm

Overtaking in equal machinery is nigh impossible in todays F1 without a tyre/reliability advantage.

You drive for the team not yourself. These team orders are almost always caveated by an agreement to reverse the position if the driver behind doesn't make significant inroads. Perez was in the wrong.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Fri 16 Jun 2017, 9:05 pm

Anyway, Ferraris first bad weekend of the season. Will be interesting to see the reaction in Baku. Was a very strong Merc track last year, Lewis with a point to prove after bottling what should've been an easy pole/win.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 8:17 pm

Seems to be growing rumours going around of a mystery new team being put together for next year. Christian Horner claims 'a new team' is trying to poach several of his staff for next year. Another source claims that Audi are to enter F1. Thoughts?
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Fernando on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

Bit late to be signing up staff most will have started their car designing a good few months ago.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 9:03 pm

Fernando wrote:Bit late to be signing up staff most will have started their car designing a good few months ago.

To be fair I don't think Horner says when his staff were being tapped up. It may have been months ago and he never said which kind of staff it were. The car design and designer may already be in place at this new team.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Fernando on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 9:51 pm

Had a look at an article seems to be a chinese consortium looking to buy what's left of Manor.

"Some of our people were asked if they would be interested in working for a new team," Horner said via Auto Motor und Sport.

"But to start next year with a new team, it is actually already too late."

Can probably rule this one out tbh.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 3:31 pm

Baku moves to the first European GP next year, between Bahrain and Spain. France takes it's spot, Russia moves back to late season
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by Fernando on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 3:35 pm

You'd have thought go GB > France > Germany > Austria to save money on travel really.

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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 3:44 pm

To be honest the cost of distance is probably minimal compared to infrastructure
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 10:33 am

Fernando wrote:
You'd have thought go GB > France > Germany > Austria to save money on travel really.

I've never understood why they don't just go East to West, instead of hopping back and forth across the world. Hugely inefficient in terms of both time and money.

GSC wrote:
To be honest the cost of distance is probably minimal compared to infrastructure

Don't kid yourself. The logistics of F1 are horrendous. Think of the cost of transporting 20 chassis, plus all the components and tools to build 20 cars.

Plus spares.
Plus tyres.
Plus fuel rigs.
Plus the pit wall monitoring gear.
Plus the hospitality centres.

Plus maintaining and driving the small fleet of articulated lorries that take the gear all over the world.

Then think about the cost of flying the pit crews and the rest of the support staff to all the venues, as well as the hotel / accommodation costs.

You're talking millions of pounds right there, certainly over the course of a season. Not to mention a horrendous carbon footprint.

Infrastructure (factory and test facilities) are probably significantly cheaper to set up. The real cost there comes from the R&D, which is probably the single biggest cost for any team.



In other news there are rumours McLaren are considering running a Ferrari engine with an Alfa Romeo badge next season.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/opinion-f1-mclaren-alfa-romeo-919226/

I'd be more enthusiastic if they were considering running an actual Alfa engine, considering Ferrari customer engines tend to be less competitive than what the works team uses. I foresee the same problem if they go back to Mercedes. Maybe not Renault, but then their engine isn't such an attractive option.

I still wish McLaren would set up their own engine shop...especially if the idea of ditching hybrid power ever happens.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

I mean the infrastructure of moving this stuff.

When you sort all of that stuff out, the cost difference between a 1 hour flight and 2 hours is probably minimal.
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC Yesterday at 9:39 am

Kaltenborn has left Sauber
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Re: F1 Azer-bojangles GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

Post by GSC Yesterday at 9:41 am

Obvious link is Honda buying the team like Lotus and Renault.
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