F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

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Post by Fernando on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway Laugh


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Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 1:38 pm

Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 1:54 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

Wehrlein signed for Sauber in mid-January two months before the season started and before the 2017 car had been unveiled so of course his car has been tweaked and set up for his needs since then. Giovinazzi taking the drive will mean they will have had to retweak things and retweak them again when Wehrlein comes back. However, Sauber have been very calm and not raging at Wehrlein in anyway. Tells me they know more about the situation than casual F1 fans with no clue what is really going on.
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Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 1:58 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

Wehrlein signed for Sauber in mid-January two months before the season started and before the 2017 car had been unveiled so of course his car has been tweaked and set up for his needs since then. Giovinazzi taking the drive will mean they will have had to retweak things and retweak them again when Wehrlein comes back. However, Sauber have been very calm and not raging at Wehrlein in anyway. Tells me they know more about the situation than casual F1 fans with no clue what is really going on.
Casual fans? Feel free to read the German press releases...I won't hold my breath...

Stick to tennis...oh no the loser Murray is back to his crap self laughing

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:08 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

Wehrlein signed for Sauber in mid-January two months before the season started and before the 2017 car had been unveiled so of course his car has been tweaked and set up for his needs since then. Giovinazzi taking the drive will mean they will have had to retweak things and retweak them again when Wehrlein comes back. However, Sauber have been very calm and not raging at Wehrlein in anyway. Tells me they know more about the situation than casual F1 fans with no clue what is really going on.
Casual fans? Feel free to read the German press releases...I won't hold my breath...

Stick to tennis...oh no the loser Murray is back to his crap self laughing

Casual fans or staunch fans makes no difference. They are fans. Unless you are trying to claim fans know more than Sauber itself in what is going on?

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:09 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

Wehrlein signed for Sauber in mid-January two months before the season started and before the 2017 car had been unveiled so of course his car has been tweaked and set up for his needs since then. Giovinazzi taking the drive will mean they will have had to retweak things and retweak them again when Wehrlein comes back. However, Sauber have been very calm and not raging at Wehrlein in anyway. Tells me they know more about the situation than casual F1 fans with no clue what is really going on.
Casual fans? Feel free to read the German press releases...I won't hold my breath...

Stick to tennis...oh no the loser Murray is back to his crap self laughing

Casual fans or staunch fans makes no difference. They are fans. Unless you are trying to claim fans know more than Sauber itself in what is going on?

Can't clear less about Sauber...my interest in the young German driver...

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:15 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Load of nonsense that Sauber 'designed their car for Wehrlein'. Sauber kept flip flopping between whether they'd retain Nasr, get another paid driver and finally taking Wehrlein.

Wehrlein signed for Sauber in mid-January two months before the season started and before the 2017 car had been unveiled so of course his car has been tweaked and set up for his needs since then. Giovinazzi taking the drive will mean they will have had to retweak things and retweak them again when Wehrlein comes back. However, Sauber have been very calm and not raging at Wehrlein in anyway. Tells me they know more about the situation than casual F1 fans with no clue what is really going on.
Casual fans? Feel free to read the German press releases...I won't hold my breath...

Stick to tennis...oh no the loser Murray is back to his crap self laughing

Casual fans or staunch fans makes no difference. They are fans. Unless you are trying to claim fans know more than Sauber itself in what is going on?

Can't clear less about Sauber.

So you don't follow closely the pressers coming out of the team then? So you are not really qualified to judge what the situation is. Situation is Wehrlein busted his back in his crash and is holding off returning to F1 until fully fit. Sauber have said in pressers the support his stance and praise him for his honesty. Hardly sounds like a team peed off because he allegedly doesn't want to drive for them as fans (casual or staunch) are suggesting on here.

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:18 pm

Well in Germany it's reported that Wehrlein has a poor attitude and is still sulking regarding the force India less so about the Mercedes snub.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:Well in Germany it's reported that Wehrlein has a poor attitude and is still sulking regarding the force India less so about the Mercedes snub.

Newspaper trash talk must be much like it is in the UK then. Sauber are the ones best placed to judge what Wehrlein's attitude is like and there have been no complaints about the way he has conducted himself so far. Until Sauber openly come out and say he is not injured at all and his attitude stinks then anything reported in the press or supposed by the fans is pure speculation without any real evidence.
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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:50 pm

Giovinazzi has probably logged more time in the car and simulators over the winter due to Pascals injury in any case so Sauber may actually be more comfortable with him.

In either case neither of them are really Sauber drivers anyway, so if any reservations to be had are likely held by Merc internally.

Is it cynical of me to suggest Pascal wouldve been in the cockpit in Melbourne if that cockpit was a Mercedes
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Post by GSC on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 9:13 am

Conditions meant a very limited P1 session and no P2.

Malaysia is off the calendar from next year
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 11:08 am

Fernando wrote:From the Honda Boss

"We did some good progress in the mono-cylinder on the dyno, but as soon as we complete the V6 engine we had many issues.

"What we achieved in mono-cylinder is at a very good level, but when we transfer exactly the same specification to the V6 engine it doesn't work. We are very disappointed. But it was too late that we noticed that – at Christmas.

"After we understand the issues this was the time we need to confirm the final specification - we needed to have some compromise.

Be round 5 or 6 before a new engine.

Makes you wonder why they bother having a mono cylinder unit on their test dyno. If their issues stem from engine balancing / vibration problems, surely the smart thing would be to have a full V6 test unit on the dyno. That way they would know immediately if there are any issues. Better than waiting until the cars grind to a halt...

Getting 1 cylinder to run smoothly is very different to getting 6 to run in perfect harmony.

Just one more reason not to have any confidence that Honda know what they're doing... Sad


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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 07 Apr 2017, 11:13 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Well in Germany it's reported that Wehrlein has a poor attitude and is still sulking regarding the force India less so about the Mercedes snub.

Newspaper trash talk must be much like it is in the UK then. Sauber are the ones best placed to judge what Wehrlein's attitude is like and there have been no complaints about the way he has conducted himself so far. Until Sauber openly come out and say he is not injured at all and his attitude stinks then anything reported in the press or supposed by the fans is pure speculation without any real evidence.

Come on - you know better than that. Thats not how it works in F1.

As long as Wehrlein remains an attractive prospect to Mercedes, or any teams they care to farm him out to, any issues will be kept hushed up. The only way it would come out is if Pascal decided to quit F1, or was dropped by Merc.

Only stuff on the scale of Ferrari-gate gets reported...and even then a lot of facts remain concealed, as long as the people involved remain in the sport.
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Post by Just John on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 9:35 am

Cracking Q3. Hamilton pole, Vettel 2nd & Bottas 3rd. Hulkenberg embarrassing Palmer & RB nowhere.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 10:06 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Well in Germany it's reported that Wehrlein has a poor attitude and is still sulking regarding the force India less so about the Mercedes snub.

Newspaper trash talk must be much like it is in the UK then. Sauber are the ones best placed to judge what Wehrlein's attitude is like and there have been no complaints about the way he has conducted himself so far. Until Sauber openly come out and say he is not injured at all and his attitude stinks then anything reported in the press or supposed by the fans is pure speculation without any real evidence.

Come on - you know better than that. Thats not how it works in F1.

As long as Wehrlein remains an attractive prospect to Mercedes, or any teams they care to farm him out to, any issues will be kept hushed up. The only way it would come out is if Pascal decided to quit F1, or was dropped by Merc.

Only stuff on the scale of Ferrari-gate gets reported...and even then a lot of facts remain concealed, as long as the people involved remain in the sport.

dyrewolfe we can all read between the lines. Sure Sauber aren't going to rock the boat but equally any angst/frustration that they may hold for Wehrlein if they thought or knew he was not injured at all then it would come through in statements far more. They'd hold back from lambasting him but be more cold or blunt saying stuff like if he feels he is not ready then they would just have to wait or stuff like that. Not what they have come out with being fully supportive - that is not the actions of any rational team who feel they have a driver who is taking the mickey out of them.
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Post by GSC on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 12:11 pm

Merc has the edge on 1 lap pace it seems but the Ferrari looks a class apart on race day
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 1:22 pm

I think Sebastian Vettel's reaction in the post-qualifying presser said it all. He was beaming away - tells me he knows how well placed he is and recognizes that Ferrari are the faster car in race conditions.
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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 1:52 pm

Craig must be delighted that Antonio Giovinazzi totalled his Sauber...must've felt guilty on Wehrlein's woes.

Anyway all joking aside Mercedes, vast array of qualifying engine mapping modes have Ferrari covered for now. But as you guys said Ferrari appears to have an advantage on race days. Ferrari also appears to have better tyre wear so even in tracks like Monaco, Baku etc getting on pole might not necessarily win the silver cars the race.

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 1:54 pm

Just John wrote:Cracking Q3. Hamilton pole, Vettel 2nd & Bottas 3rd. Hulkenberg embarrassing Palmer & RB nowhere.
Renault should've loaned Gasly from Red Bull it's quite clear that Palmer's fathers cheque book is the only reason he's on the grid. Hulk was always going to expose Palmer

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Post by GSC on Sat 08 Apr 2017, 5:18 pm

Also worth pointing out Aus and China generally Hamilton strong tracks.

Vettels right alongside Boys so far.
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Post by Just John on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 10:53 am

Comfortable win for Hamilton in the end. Ferrari failed to confirm that so-called superior race pace this weekend. Bottas' spin picard

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Post by GSC on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:30 pm

Eh, it fell right for Hamilton in that race, very easily could've been Vettels day again. Ferrari are right in this.
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Post by Just John on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:15 pm

Definitely agree, think the pace is there, just didn't materialise for Vettel. Kind of a reversal of fortunes, Hamilton stuck behind Verstappen cost him in Australia & Seb being stuck in the DRS train, denied us his true pace today. That will probably be the defining factor this season, track position will be key, especially post pit stop. Any kind of traffic, will kill you this year, such is the difficulty to overtake.

I actually quite enjoyed the DRS train, was a throwback to whereby we would actually see a battle elongated out over a sustained period & drivers really having to produce the skills required to perform a dangerous pass. Much more enjoyable than a quick one lap battle & then when the DRS came along, it was all over.

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Post by GSC on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 2:44 pm

What would scare Merc is the first stint in Aus. Vettel easily matched Lewis in the dirty air and took his tyres much further while doing it.

Lewis had to pit behind Max because of Ferraris pace.
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Post by GSC on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 9:53 am

Bottas might be under pressure already.

Needs to deliver some points to help hold off Ferrari, Fernandos clearly angling for 1 more title bid.
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Post by Just John on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 10:52 am

The stance by Mercedes & was discussed on Sky yesterday, was that they have no plan to hire Alonso, while Hamilton remains at the team. The rumour in the paddock, is the Alonso to Renault for 2018, but I'm not convinced that really solves anything for Alonso. It's kind of getting a bit desperate & sad now, for such a great driver.

As for Mercedes, I'm not sure they will be too worried as of yet about Bottas, mainly because Raikkonen looks equally as bad & should of really retired last season. Mercedes still lead the constructors, even with Bottas' error.

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 1:44 pm

Over the course of the season Kimi will beat Bottas of that there's no doubt. Kimi is struggling with car balance. It's only a few races ago he had Sebastian in his pocket.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 9:51 am

Weather and pit stop strategy decided this as much as anything else. Hamilton was fortunate that Gio binned his car when he did, allowing him to switch to slicks, without losing time.

Good to see Verstappen's enthusiasm for overtaking hasn't been dampened. Most exciting thing about the race IMO - apart from the usual chaos you get with wet weather.

Have to say I'm not hugely enthused about this season so far. As John said, quali / track position and pit strategy will be key. Unless you're prepared to take some risks, overtaking on track isn't going to be an attractive option.

Gutted for Alonso. Again performing miracles in that dog of a McLaren...only for something to go wrong and force a retirement. Getting thoroughly fed up with this team now.
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Post by Jermaine2015 on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 9:30 pm

Craig's gonna be throwing a party, Sauber confirm Pascal Wehrlein's return for Bahrain...Sauber probably glad after Antonio Giovinazzi totaled the car twice in Shanghai.

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Post by GSC on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 9:35 pm

Turkey might be back on the calendar
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Post by Fernando on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 11:25 am

Fernando Alonso is doing the Indy 500 missing the Monaco GP

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Post by Just John on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 11:39 am

Not surprised at all, he's been looking at Le Mans or Indy Car (triple crown) for a while & he's hardly going to turn down the chance to drive for the team that won it in 2016. His days are numbered in F1

As for his replacement, welcome back, JB Laugh

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 12:02 pm

Makes sense if Button is fit enough to take the one-off drive (and given his triathlon obsession, he's likely to be). Really no value in putting a complete rookie in the car for Monaco, as you'll just end up with it costing a fortune in spare front wings and suspension parts while getting little meaningful running. And maybe Monaco is a place where the lack of horses from the Honda won't be as significant and McLaren may look a bit more competitive (i.e. actually finishing int he bottom end of the points).

Alonso is either going to get a top F1 seat for next year (i.e. Merc, Ferrari or RB) or will be searching for greener pastures such as WEC and Indy. No point continuing with a team that can't get him challenging for race wins and even championships.

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Post by GSC on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 12:02 pm

Well he's not getting in a RB or Ferrari.

Sainz is next in line for RB and Ferrari will be looking younger for their Kimi replacement I suspect.
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Post by Just John on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 10:31 am

As expected, Jenson Button confirmed to replace Alonso in Monaco

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Post by Just John on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 5:02 pm

Bottas pole, Hamilton 2nd & Vettel in third

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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 8:56 pm

Cracking effort from Bottas, he looked a little out of his depth in Australia and China, but bounced back well in Bahrain thus far. Underwhelming effort from Ferrari, but Kimi's really struggling, gotta wonder whether the Scuderia would've been better off having Grosjean in the sister Ferrari...Good job by Hulkenberg as well.

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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:09 pm

Hamilton gets a 5 second penalty, Vettel in the driver's seat now
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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:16 pm

Vettel 9 seconds clear of Bottas and looks like he's home barring mechanical issues.

Lewis 10 seconds behind Bottle with 15 laps to go.
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Post by nathan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:18 pm

GSC wrote:Hamilton gets a 5 second penalty, Vettel in the driver's seat now

Don't think Hamilton could of won anyway but it was a silly thing to do.

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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:22 pm

Bottas is about to meet the buzzsaw.
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Post by nathan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:24 pm

Vettel must have some spare pace

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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:27 pm

He knows he doesnt need to burn fuel or his tyres to protect this cushion.
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Post by nathan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:37 pm

Seems Hamilton has given up the chase, saving his engine probably the right thing to do

Most cars must be pretty close to brake failures

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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:40 pm

Vettel wins, let Lewis charge for a bit but held a comfortable gap.

Bottas firmly punted in 2nd driver status.

Ferrari continues to look the best car on Sundays, especially in warm conditions
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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:43 pm

Merc seriously need to consider reverting to a clear 1-2. Bottas got priority first stop and held Lewis up for a bit.
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Post by Just John on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 6:06 pm

Mercedes ballsed up in first stint. Delayed two laps & then invited the Hamilton stacking problem. Vettel had it in control from then onwards. Bottas was embarrassed today.

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Post by nathan on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 7:05 pm

Bottas wasn't great today, he struggled with the rear tyres all race

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Post by Fernando on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 7:59 pm

The tyre generator that puts pressure in them broke and went too high on Valteri's car hence the issues with the rears Ok!

It was nice of Mercedes to sacrifice Valteri's race for Lewis regardless Laugh

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Post by GSC on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 8:34 pm

I'm not convinced the Merc just isn't crap on the tears again
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Post by Jermaine2015 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 11:30 pm

Excellent victory for Sebastian. Hamilton's race was pretty much screwed when Sebastian got the jump on him in T1 at the start. Ferrari clearly has an advantage in the warmer conditions, but Sochi should be Mercedes' race to lose in cooler conditions.

Bottas seems to be pushing too hard. Slip sliding and killing his rear tyres. He'll have to adapt his style.

Kimi's been a nonevent in these first three races. Needs to get on it and at least challenge Bottas.

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