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F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

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Post by Fernando Thu 23 Mar 2017, 11:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway Laugh


Last edited by Fernando on Thu 19 Jul 2018, 5:02 pm; edited 30 times in total

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Post by Guest Fri 15 Sep 2017, 11:48 am

McLaren Racing and Renault Sport Racing agree engine supply partnership from the 2018 season

Toro Rosso agree three-yeal deal with Honda. Rumours they've taken 40% of TR & will eventually take over the team.

Christian Horner confirms Carlos Sainz will join Renault for 2018 on loan. Also states RB will be confirming a new relationship with a car firm, possibly Aston Martin.

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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 11:59 am

Probably the best result for all concerned bar RB who are now strongarmed into running Honda for at least 2 years probably uncompetitive years and face losing their two drivers.

Still they made their bed moaning a couple of years ago and it turns it Renault no longer need them.
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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

Still a good sign that F1s new owners could make this happen, wouldn't have under Bernie
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Post by Fernando Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:10 pm

Im going to put a £5 on a Toro Rosso race win next year cos everything Fernando does move wise is usually wrong Laugh

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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:11 pm

Put a tenner on McLaren WCC in 2019 then
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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:52 pm

Honda want Matsushita in the TR rather than Gasly
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Post by Fernando Fri 15 Sep 2017, 12:55 pm

drop the torpedo and have both let's face it next year will be a test season for Honda realistically so no harm done.

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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 1:27 pm

True enough. Guessing Kvyat has some heavy Russian backers tho
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Post by GSC Fri 15 Sep 2017, 1:45 pm

RBs look strong so far, ominous for Merc, might well be 3rd best here.
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Post by Guest Fri 15 Sep 2017, 1:59 pm

GSC wrote:Honda want Matsushita in the TR rather than Gasly

Yep, not sure he has sufficient points on his licence as of yet, but a good talent. Tbh, not surprised Honda already announcing some demands, and if they're bringing over the £100m or anything remotely in that region, Kyvat's backing won't save him. I'd imagine the Toro Rosso name being dropped sometime in the near future.

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Post by GSC Sat 16 Sep 2017, 2:41 pm

Vandoorne currently splitting the Mercs.

Not something I thought I'd type this year
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Post by GSC Sat 16 Sep 2017, 2:56 pm

Vettel first after first runs with a 39.6.

Max needs a tenth and a half to top that
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 16 Sep 2017, 3:03 pm

Wow that was a bit special by Vettel. Destroys them all

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Post by GSC Sat 16 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

Vettel and Hamilton improve marginally but the positions don't change.

Vettel pole, Max & Ricciardo 2/3, Kimi 4th. Hamilton heads Bottas in a Merc third row, Bottas nowhere in the end.

McLarens locking out the 4th row will give them renewed hope that with a competent engine, they have a chassis that can compete for podiums.
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Post by Guest Sat 16 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

Damage limitation as expected for Mercedes. Probably hoping Verstappen does something stupid or they have reliability issues over the two hours. All in all, Vettel looking likely to win here.

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Post by GSC Sat 16 Sep 2017, 3:06 pm

Think they would've hoped to be closer to the Red Bulls than they ended up being. Fortunately for Lewis, Valtteri never turned up in Q3 so thats him out the way.
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Post by GSC Sat 16 Sep 2017, 3:10 pm

If Vettel gets into the first corner, it should be a routine Vettel win, Ferraris much quicker in sector 1 and dirty air will negate any RB advantage in the middle sector.

Kimi to be deployed as a Lewis blocker in the first stint you suspect.
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 17 Sep 2017, 12:12 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Wow that was a bit special by Vettel. Destroys them all


Yeah - that lap seemed to come out of nowhere, given Seb and Kimi had been consistently 3rd / 4th until then. I smell a rat! Really fancied RB to lock out the front row, given how they'd been running up until Q3. Still I expect Max and Dan to give Vettel a run for his money.

Not really surprised by Mercedes' performance (or lack of it). Strictly damage limitation this weekend and pray RB can get the jump on Seb at some point.
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Post by Guest Sun 17 Sep 2017, 12:50 pm

Raining

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Post by Guest Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:04 pm

A dream for Hamilton

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:05 pm

Holy. Crap. What. A. Start. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Vettel squeezes Max into Kimi then spins and wrecks his car.

Absolute carnage at the start.
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:06 pm

Mercedes will be jumping for joy.

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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:08 pm

Well thats probably title race over.

Kimi got a mega start, Seb squeezed Max and all 3 came together. Racing incident.
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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:14 pm

Hulk has a mega chance to break his podium duck
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:15 pm

GSC wrote:Well thats probably title race over.

Kimi got a mega start, Seb squeezed Max and all 3 came together. Racing incident.


Pretty dumb move by Seb IMO - especially given the wet conditions. He didn't need to move across that aggressively. If he'd checked his mirrors he'd have seen Max didn't get that good a start.

Or if he couldn't see due to spray thats even more reason not to pull any aggressive moves, if you're not sure where the cars are behind you...
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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:27 pm

Risky sure, but visibility was crap and Kimi got a mega launch.

Ricciardo starting to heat up.

Bottas having an absolute shocker. Overtaken by Palmer and slower than both Renaults and FI faster on a slower tyre
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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:29 pm

Wonder if there's a case for NASCAR style spotters.
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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:31 pm

Kvyat bins in and we'll have a 2nd SC.

No way this race is going the distance
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Post by GSC Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:45 pm

Massa almost Schumachered Magnusson
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Post by nathan Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:12 pm

Laughable from Ferrari on twitter. Making themselves the laughing stock of the world

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:12 pm

Quelle suprise - Ferrari blame Verstappen for the crash.

Hamilton wins as Vettel commits hari-kari.
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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:49 pm

GSC wrote:Wonder if there's a case for NASCAR style spotters.

Funnily enough they just had a NASCAR driver on the show and were talking about that very thing. General opinion is that given how short the run to the corner was, couple with the weather conditions, its unlikely even that would have helped. Might be useful in some circumstances though.

Have to say each time I see the replay of the start, the worse Vettel's move looks. Not only did he hit Verstappen, but he also managed to take out Kimi as well. Max actually might have managed to continue, had Kimi not slid back across the track, into his side...thus sending him into Alonso.

Its all very well wanting to defend your position, but when you're starting in wet conditions, you need to be a bit more circumspect...especially if you can't see whats behind you.


Anyway, Hamilton said he needed a miracle...I guess the Big Guy was listening to his prayers.

Best ever result for Sainz (4th) loved his reaction over the radio when the team told him. Very Happy Points finishes for Palmer (too late, alas), Vandoorne and Stroll.

Pretty interesting race until the track dried out...then it became a procession.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 18 Sep 2017, 9:49 am

Well that was different from most ordinary race starts you see. Vettel returned to his Red Bull Racing bully boy driving style and it back fired tremendously. Surely the German realized that even if Kimi gets ahead, he's not allowed to win? This carnage at the start was eerily similar to Grosjean brain fade in Spa 2012. Vettel's aggregation was similar to how he crashed into Webber back in Turkey all those years ago. It was obvious Max and more so Kimi where pissed off with Vettel, but again Kimi is handcuffed by being Vettel's #2.

The championship is effectively over, of the remaining 6 tracks I don't realistically see where Ferrari can possibly win. Also factoring in that Ferrari need Hamilton to suffer one if not two DNFs...Not happening. Most relevant occurance would be Bottas securing second in the championship. Wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes win all 9 races post the summer break.

Congrats to Sainz Jr on his career best finish, he'll be a star in the coming decade. Kudos to Palmer for his career best finish but probably too late to save his career. Hulkenberg is the most unlucky driver I've seen in the recent era.

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Post by LionsV2 Mon 18 Sep 2017, 10:07 am

With Hamilton behind him in the rain I'm not entirely sure Vettel could afford to let Verstappen and Raikkonen past.

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Post by GSC Mon 18 Sep 2017, 10:14 am

Getting past Verstappen would have been a bigger pain than holding off Hamilton in this formula
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Post by eirebilly Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

I am not an expert on F1 racing, just a casual viewer but how can that crash not be attributed to Vettel? Is it because he (nor Max) did not expect such a great start from Kimi?

It looks to me as if Vettels plan was to drive Max into the wall regardless of whether or not Kimi got a good start. For me it looks reckless and dangerous driving from Vettel. Had Max or Grosjean done the same thing, there would be hell to pay.
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Post by Fernando Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:11 pm

It happens at the start of every race Billy. The guy on pole will squeeze over so the guy in 2nd can't pass him and can keep the lead. Standard procedure in F1 just Kimi got away better then the pair Laugh

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Post by eirebilly Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:20 pm

Fair dues Fernando and I understand the tactic but it appeared to me that Vettel veered very sharply across Max. To me there is a difference in squeezing and veering sharply, I guess I am just not as aware as most of you on here thumbsup
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:58 pm

I don't buy the notion that Vettel was scared of Hamilton in the rain either. Vettel's won in the rain before and isn't that shabby in wet conditions. He simply allowed his hatred of verstappen to boil over imo

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Post by GSC Mon 18 Sep 2017, 1:07 pm

In this formula the start is all important, too hard to make positions on track without a car advantage.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 19 Sep 2017, 6:07 am

GSC wrote:In this formula the start is all important, too hard to make positions on track without a car advantage.

Not in the wet though on a night street circuit on a track renowned for attrition and guaranteed safety car. It was a time to get away safely and re-assess once things settled down. Even letting Verstappen go and Kimi would not have been disastrous given that Kimi would have later been ordered to move over. Stupudity is what it was and embarrassing that Ferrari openly blamed Verstappen who was meat in a Ferrari sandwich with nowhere to go.
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Post by dummy_half Tue 19 Sep 2017, 1:14 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:In this formula the start is all important, too hard to make positions on track without a car advantage.

Not in the wet though on a night street circuit on a track renowned for attrition and guaranteed safety car. It was a time to get away safely and re-assess once things settled down. Even letting Verstappen go and Kimi would not have been disastrous given that Kimi would have later been ordered to move over. Stupudity is what it was and embarrassing that Ferrari openly blamed Verstappen who was meat in a Ferrari sandwich with nowhere to go.

This is very true - even if Vettel had been 3rd round the first corner, he'd still have been ahead of Hamilton and with a compliant team mate in front. I can accept the steward's judgement of 'racing incident' given that more leeway is given into the first corner than later in the race, but the bulk of the fault was with Vettel for trying to defend off a fairly poor start and so squeezing the drivers on his inside. Certainly no blame at all can be placed on Raikkonen, who simply got the best drive on the slippery track and was down the inside for a lead into turn 1, and really what else could Max have done - he did move very slightly left into Kimi, but if he'd held straight he'd have been collected by Vettel instead - probably the only difference this made was the 'domino' effect of who went where after impact, and it might have been Hamilton rather than Alonso that got taken out as the innocent bystander.

Vettel made his name in F1 initially by an outstanding performance at a wet Monza for Toro Rosso, but I'm not convinced he's quite as good a wet weather racer as Max or Hamilton, so perhaps it was a fear that if MV got in front he'd be difficult to pass.

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Post by erictheblueuk Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:54 am

Vettel lost his head just as he did in Azerbajijan.

He's racing Hamiltion nobody else, so drive accordingly especially in those wet start conditions.
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Post by Born Slippy Thu 21 Sep 2017, 11:29 am

Having now seen this a few times it seems to me that "racing incident" best describes it. Vettel was responsible for the chain of events but I don't see how he could have known Kimi was there. He was just taking a relatively standard approach of blocking off the 2nd place guy.

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Post by Born Slippy Thu 21 Sep 2017, 11:31 am

That said, possibly it would have been wiser for him (given the championship situation) to let Verstappen go past without taking any risks at all.

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Post by Guest Mon 25 Sep 2017, 9:57 am

Aston Martin will become the Red Bull Formula 1 team's title sponsor for the 2018 season. You'd imagine the first stage of a potential buy-out, similar to what Honda will eventually do with Toro Rosso.

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Post by GSC Tue 26 Sep 2017, 9:51 am

Theyd only be interested in making an engine if of its simplified in 2021 however.

Palmer turned down a severance pay package to drive the rest of the season.

Di Resta apparently in the best position to replace Massa next year as doubts remain over Kubicas ability to last a race distance.
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Post by GSC Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:27 am

Kvyat dropped, Gasly in this weekend
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Post by Fernando Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:46 am

I wonder if Danil will be back for 2018 just so Pierre can get used to the car or if Matsushita will get his drive.

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Post by Guest Sat 30 Sep 2017, 10:16 am

Vettel out after Q1. Malaysia cost Hamilton last year, and now might of just been another nail in Vettel's coffin this year.

Hamilton pole
Raikkonen 2nd
Verstappen 3rd

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F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual - Page 12 Empty Re: F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

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