F1 German GP Thread - Contains Qualifying & Race Spoilers as usual

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Ain't doing it no one reads it anyway

[GSC]

For those of you planning on watching the highlights later, there weren't any

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Monaco is such a lousy race maybe it should be ditched. The only noteworthy action was young LeClerc crashing into the hapless Hartley

[GSC]

Even by Monaco standards this was crap.

[Guest]

Race had potential, but it didn’t materialise. Status quo really, albeit Vettel reducing Hamilton’s lead to just 14.

[GSC]

Question really has to be asked whether the current Monaco track is still fit for purpose

[Guest]

The current track hasn’t been fit for purpose for years. I was under the impression they were already in the process of reclaiming land from the sea, in a £1.5b development deal, that would include the possibility of altering the track, just prior to the tunnel.

[dummy_half]

The problems regarding significant changes to Monaco are 2 fold:
1 - It's great up to Sunday afternoon. Quali is a fantastic spectacle.
2 - As a track it defines the lower design parameters for an F1 car (e.g. steering lock to get round Loews hairpin, amount of suspension travel) - Monza defines the other extreme of the low downforce setup.

It used to be possible to pass in about 3 or 4 places around the track (down the hill after Casino Square, Loews, the chicane after the tunnel and Rascasse (esp in GP2)), although none were easy. Not sure if its the modern cars, changes to the track (including unintended ones such as settlement of the road surface and increasing bumpiness) or over-familiarity of the drivers with the circuit that has neutered the racing.

[No name Bertie]

... It used to be possible to pass in about 3 or 4 places around the track (down the hill after Casino Square, Loews, the chicane after the tunnel and Rascasse (esp in GP2)), although none were easy. Not sure if its the modern cars, changes to the track (including unintended ones such as settlement of the road surface and increasing bumpiness) or over-familiarity of the drivers with the circuit that has neutered the racing.

I've heard the main issue is the aerodynamics of the car (hence the introduction of DRS) plus damage to the tyres when trying to overtake (in turbulent air + more aggressive breaking) plus the cars are slightly wider so easier to defend position.

[GSC]

The wider cars really tell around here, there just isn't enough room to run side by side around most of the track. Combined with the dirty air effect at a track where teams run maximum downforce and shorter braking distances, its pretty hard to even get into position to have a go. Need a massive car and tyre advantage like Verstappen.

Anyway Danny Ric taking at least 10 places for his burnt out MGU-K. Fortunately Canada is a good place to take it, but puts the top 5 out of reach. Big weekend for Max with his teammate down the order, RB should be competitive in race trim, if probably a fair way off the top 4 in quali.

[Fernando]

Most likely moving to 18in wheels for 2021 with the new changes

[GSC]

Can't wait to see Pirelli's 18 inch hyperhards

[Fernando]

Ricciardo penalty confirme

FIA pondering a 3rd DRS Zone after the slow left/right where Vettel cocked up the other year so people can maintain gaps

[Fernando]

The 3rd DRS Zone is now official for Canada between T7 & T8

[Guest]

Not a fan of copious amounts of DRS zones. Canada has historically provided good racing & differing strategy. Fear the FIA just want to manufacture some excitement, post the criticism of a drab Monaco event. No doubt Horner was demanding this, post-Ricciardo’s penalty.

[GSC]

Think if Horner had that kind of juice we'd have seen this years ago rather than when the Renault engine is relatively competitive.

[dyrewolfe]

Most likely moving to 18in wheels for 2021 with the new changes

Apparently they were tested back in 2014 & 2015.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/136501/f1-pushing-for-bigger-wheels-for-2021

Pirelli has pushed for the change for several years and has demonstrated concept tyres, with Charles Pic running them on a Lotus at Silverstone in 2014 (pictured above) and Martin Brundle trying them on a GP2 test car in Monaco in '15.

The tyre manufacturer believes low-profile tyres, which are already used in the WEC and Formula E, have more in common with road car technology than the current 13-inch spec and would be better for marketing purposes.

One F1 insider told Autosport it is now "more likely than not" that the move will be made.

When asked if that was the case FIA race director Charlie Whiting said: "I would say so. It is part of the package that we are discussing."

Of course that will be a complete suspension re-design, along with the other changes planned for 2021.

TBH I don't like 'em. I think the cars actually look better with smaller wheels & fat tyres. Low profile ones make them look like pimpmobiles.

[dyrewolfe]

The wider cars really tell around here, there just isn't enough room to run side by side around most of the track. Combined with the dirty air effect at a track where teams run maximum downforce and shorter braking distances, its pretty hard to even get into position to have a go. Need a massive car and tyre advantage like Verstappen.

Anyway Danny Ric taking at least 10 places for his burnt out MGU-K. Fortunately Canada is a good place to take it, but puts the top 5 out of reach. Big weekend for Max with his teammate down the order, RB should be competitive in race trim, if probably a fair way off the top 4 in quali.

I said before the season started that the new component restrictions were a joke and so they're proving. With the best will in the world you cannot make components that provide good performance AND good reliability / durability...its either one or the other.

Wonder how many more drivers will have races screwed up through no fault of their own.

[GSC]

Red Bull tried to put Lando Norris in Hartleys seat and got told no.

[Guest]

Kind of inevitable, when you don’t own the asset.

[Fernando]

Apparently Lando has to be offered a race seat by Mclaren for next year or he's free to join who he wants.

[GSC]

Said at the time Hartley being RBs best option doesn't say much for the current generation of their driver program. This says less.

Could see the benefits for McLaren, hard not to read slightly into the possibility Fernando could opt not to finish the season

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

If Red Bull want to axe Brendon Hartley, I'd hope they'd roll the dice on Robert Kubica as opposed to Lando Norris. Norris carries a lot of hype, but during his career he's only ever ran in front running cars. As such Norris isn't close to someone like LeClerc

[GSC]

Every manufacturer bar Mercedes is bringing an engine upgrade to Canada so fresh power units for all against a worn Merc PU. Should play into in Ferraris hands.

[GSC]

Every manufacturer bar Mercedes is bringing an engine upgrade to Canada so fresh power units for all against a worn Merc PU. Should play into in Ferraris hands.

[GSC]

Newey says it's worth a tenth, Brundle says it could be 6. Truth is probably in the middle somewhere.

[GSC]

Vettel takes an entirely new engine the rest of the Ferrari teams limited by parts failures to date.

[No name Bertie]

ultra-soft
hyper-soft
super-soft

all very confusing terminology how about
super-soft
super-duper soft
super-duper-whooper soft

[GSC]

super-hard

[Guest]

McLaren should be up there with Red Bull with their "best chassis" surely...

Even more evident at Montreal. McLaren basically 1.5s off RB, and 0.9s off Renault

[Guest]

Vettel pole
Bottas 2nd
Verstappen 3rd
Hamilton 4th
Raikkonen a predictable mistake in 5th
Ricciardo nowhere in 6th

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Hamilton was very poor in Q3, the Montreal expert should’ve easily been third at the worst.

Ricciardo can pretend he’s decent but everyone knows Max is superior

[GSC]

Could've fooled me up to this weekend.

Ominous for Mercedes that Ferrari are faster here in addition to Baku. That engine upgrade really has to deliver in France.

Kimi still has speed but making too many mistakes.

Being beaten by Bottas bad enough for Lewis, but being behind the most aggressive defender on the grid a bigger blow.

RB probably banking on a SC starting on the hypers. Gapping the field before they die is a big ask.

[GSC]

Vettel cruises home to an easy win. Hamilton finishing 5th puts Vettel back atop the championship by a point.

LeClerc doing his Ferrari chances no harm. At the very least he'll have Grosjeans seat next year (or sooner)

[Guest]

Vettel wins comfortably, and leads WDC by 1 point. Race was incredibly dull, and emphasised everything wrong with F1 right now.

[No name Bertie]

F1 has become like chess of the very slow kind.  Each round in a Championship,  extended out to a 21 race season, is played out as a single move, putting together a combination based on managing the tyres, managing the engine, managing all the other components of the car, managing the upgrades.  

Winning is often based on picking the right strategies, managing the pit stops, and taking advantage of safety car opportunities.  Drivers ability to drive is becoming less of a factor.

The main issues seem to be difficulty in overtaking without damaging the tyres and managing the conditions of a limited number of car parts.  After a few laps the race is more or less over - and we are on to the next race.

I suppose for such tech based sports such as formula one - the difficulty is always going to be the balance between the technology, the management of that technology, and the drivers ability to drive.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Ferrari's 2018 car has really come full circle, whilst the 2017 car was very good(it should've won the drivers championship but for Vettel's meltdown/reliability). The 2017 version was really only in its element on low power tracks e.g. Melbourne, Monaco, Hungary plus in the correct temperature window Singapore and Malaysia. But it was relatively weak on power circuits.

The 2018 car has given away some of its aero but gained massively on power tracks. Vettel should've won in Chinq and Azerbaijan, two tracks suited to Mercedes. And now Vettel dominated in Canada another Mercedes track.

Mercedes need their b spec engine to really close in on Ferrari as in normal circumstances you'd feel Mercedes should win in France, Great Britain and Australia

[GSC]

Decent result for Bottas, both elbows out with Max at the start. At 35 points behind the lead, those 25 points lost in Baku are telling though.

Probably been the better Merc driver since Australia but such is luck

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Good to see the best driver in F1 back on top

And again.

Our Seb

[Fernando]

A look at the French GP Circuit onboard

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/races/2018/france.html

It's going to be a long weekend...

[GSC]

Not a million miles away from Montreal's layout, plenty of slow to medium speed corners and traction zones. Ferrari should fancy their chances again, well suited to the RB

[Fluxy]

I know you can do a let with seating stands these days, but didn't look like there were many stands on that video!

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