British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

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British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by 123456789 on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 6:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Fairly simple, champions cup aside, we have nearly all the information Garland will have to pick the Lions squad, so go ahead name your squad, your captain etc.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:19 pm

Likely 1st and 2nd choice injury replacements?

1 Healy, Evans
2 Hartley, Brown
3 Francis, Fagerson
4 Launchbury, R Gray
5 J Gray, Toner
6 Robshaw, Haskell
7 Watson (and Haskell)
8 Heaslip

9 Care, Laidlaw
10 Russell, Ford
12/13 Williams, Dunbar
11/14 Maitland, Zebo
15 Brown

Obviously it depends on who gets injured and at what point of the tour (i.e. if there is already enough in the squad to cover for them) but there is certainly plenty strength in depth to call upon. Most positions have strong backups with both sides of the scrum probably the weakest.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:21 pm

Taylor might have pushed for selection in the centres if he wasn't injured as frequently as he is.

Maitland IMO needs to improve his attacking side. There are many more potent try scorers.

Gray,Watson and Dunbar have all suffered because of that England game.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:22 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Likely 1st and 2nd choice injury replacements?

1 Healy, Evans
2 Hartley, Brown
3 Francis, Fagerson
4 Launchbury, R Gray
5 J Gray, Toner
6 Robshaw, Haskell
7 Watson (and Haskell)
8 Heaslip

9 Care, Laidlaw
10 Russell, Ford
12/13 Williams, Dunbar
11/14 Maitland, Zebo
15 Brown

Obviously it depends on who gets injured and at what point of the tour (i.e. if there is already enough in the squad to cover for them) but there is certainly plenty strength in depth to call upon. Most positions have strong backups with both sides of the scrum probably the weakest.

I agree with that, although with Payne, Nowell, Watson, Williams and Hogg in the squad I don't think we'll see Mike Brown on the plane unless we really are taken to the cleaners with injuries.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:22 pm

munkian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
munkian wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:How many Southern Hemishpere players in the Lions squad.....

If they play for England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales then why does it matter ?

Well its not a great advertisement for NH rugby.

Apart from its a successful entity over here and attracts players from all over the world.

Some of the best players in the Irish squad were born in the SH, I assume you still cheer them on ?

There arent that many and it doesnt really sit well with me though the guys that do get selected seem very committed which makes it easier to swallow.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by R!skysports on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

While I am (i my mind) rightly peed off at some of the selections, I will still be watching the games - still heading to the pub at a ungodly hour and still supporting them

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Likely 1st and 2nd choice injury replacements?

Has Lions selection discussion jumped the shark?
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Ineffable on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:24 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Good luck to the Welsh English Irish Tennessee & Ayr lions.

I too will not be contributing or watching. I like the idea of the Lions but we need to find independent coaches to select the team.

Ayr?

Ayr?

Has Hogg even ever played for Ayr let alone lived there?

Knew this would wind people up Smile

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by robbo277 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:32 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:As an aside, it's shocking that the average Vunipola has got in ahead of Rob Evans. I can see what Gats is doing though. You need Pacific Islanders to beat NZ and the Lions have a few. Hartley should have gone over Best imo, the Lions needed his nasty and ruthless steak against the worlds most ruthless team.

No, Hartley should not have gone...not good enough, and that's coming from an Englishman.

Mako however offers a huge carrying game. From the bench he will be invaluable to the Lions.

I still think against the All Blacks we'll need our best ballers playing the majority of the minutes. I'm not sure how Mako stacks up against McGrath as a ball-player, but his carrying and offloading is strong and he's definitely ahead of Marler. He's a strong contender to start for me. Marler and Cole would probably be my midweek props, putting in the donkey work and crushing Provincial scrums. Won't work against NZ though, and we'll need 15 people capable of playing with the ball.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:37 pm

Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:38 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?

You can extend that to Billy Vunapola.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:47 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?

You can extend that to Billy Vunapola.


If Gatland picked on recent form he wouldnt have taken BOD to the last one.

Actually maybe you have a point there.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:00 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?

You can extend that to Billy Vunapola.


If Gatland picked on recent form he wouldnt have taken BOD to the last one.

Actually maybe you have a point there.

He only took him to publically Drop him. Don't spoil a ripe plan that was years in the making on some tosh about 'form' Wink

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?

You can extend that to Billy Vunapola.


If Gatland picked on recent form he wouldnt have taken BOD to the last one.

Actually maybe you have a point there.

BODs form was quite good. He played the whole six nations whereas Billy hasnt really been back to full form or fitness.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:18 pm

I'm not so fussed about Kruis and Billy V being selected as they are now fit again and are going to be well up to speed and battle hardened due to Sarries' run in at the end of the season - 2 more league games, European semi final and potential final and AP semi final and potential final.

AWJ and Warbuton are more of a worry as at best they will have 1 game before the tour, which is hardly ideal preparation.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:21 pm

But Billy like BOD, is a genuine world class player.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by robbo277 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:24 pm

Right then, I'll go first: Best XV not on the plane. Nel, Tuilagi and Huw Jones not considered due to injury.

1. Evans
2. Hartley
3. Francis
4. Launchbury
5. J Gray
6. Robshaw
7. Watson
8. Heaslip
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Maitland
12. Dunbar
13. Ringrose
14. May
15. Kearney

Potentially a completely useless exercise, but it might highlight the "next cabs off the rank".

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:26 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote: I'm not so fussed about Kruis and Billy V being selected as they are now fit again and are going to be well up to speed and battle hardened due to Sarries' run in at the end of the season - 2 more league games, European semi final and potential final and AP semi final and potential final.

AWJ and Warbuton are more of a worry as at best they will have 1 game before the tour, which is hardly ideal preparation.

So they are being rewarded for being good Internationals PLUS pretty effective club players.  Playing hard at all ends of their career.

Hmmm...  back to Gatland and his choices about the kinds of players with the balls and bluster to be great in Internatiional plus club/Provincial/regional.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:36 pm

BT Sport begin their new Irish marketing campaign....
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by chris_501 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:38 pm

The things that possibly may have swayed things are that Moriarty and Teo were both exceptional at the weekend.

I would have had Gray in my squad for sure, also Huw Jones had he not been injured.

WP Nell is the big loss, for me he would have been a Scottish forward who would have been first in any discussion on tighthead.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:45 pm

Pot Hale wrote:BT Sport begin their new Irish marketing campaign....

That's the UK's official Post-Brexit Map.

Here's the official US Post-Trump Victory World Map:


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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:15 pm

chris_501 wrote:The things that possibly may have swayed things are that Moriarty and Teo were both exceptional at the weekend.

I would have had Gray in my squad for sure, also Huw Jones had he not been injured.

WP Nell is the big loss, for me he would have been a Scottish forward who would have been first in any discussion on tighthead.

Agreed. I'd have WP Nel ahead of both English tightheads. Cole has a habit of giving away penalties and Sinckler is still quite green. Still, Furlong starting with Sinckler on the bench is useful.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?
Kruis gets in because he is one of the two best locks in the NH. He has been injured but has a competitive run in with a couple of league matches, the play-off semi and probably final and European semi and I suspect final. 1/2p may be in for mid-week team's place kicking.

How the others get in the team is beyond me.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:36 pm

beshocked wrote:Taylor might have pushed for selection in the centres if he wasn't injured as frequently as he is.

Maitland IMO needs to improve his attacking side. There are many more potent try scorers.

Gray,Watson and Dunbar have all suffered because of that England game.
That is probably true however how is it that being in a poorly performing team does not affect the selection of Welsh players in the same way?

Of the Lions countries Wales are the lowest in the World Rugby rankings and finished behind all the others in the Six nations.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:40 pm

Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:40 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Lets be honest man for man most of us wouldn't pick Scottish players either.

But before you report me the best players don't always make the best team, but a team like this should be picked on recent form so how does players like Biggar, JD2, Kruis, T'eo and 1/2p get in the team?
Kruis gets in because he is one of the two best locks in the NH. He has been injured but has a competitive run in with a couple of league matches, the play-off semi and probably final and European semi and I suspect final. 1/2p may be in for mid-week team's place kicking.

How the others get in the team is beyond me.

I only put Kruis and T'eo in there so I couldn't be accused of being anti-Welsh.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:42 pm

Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

You're embarrassed?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:43 pm

Taking 12 Welshmen to NZ to beat a team only their Great Granddad's can remember beating is tacking the biscuit.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:43 pm

Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

Yep, and they richly deserved more than 2 players in the Lions squad and maybe Wales should have been the team to have given them a few more....


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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by 123456789 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:49 pm

Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

I don't think I've seen a single Scotland supporter claim that our team are the best in the world but even you would have to admit that it's hard to fully buy into a tour when two Scottish players have been picked and 12 of Gatland's own have gone. This is not, and I feel I have to stress this, a dig at the Welsh players who have been picked nor at Welsh supporters who must be quite rightly happy at the squad, but the stats over the last 12 to 18 months do not support the discrepancy between the two sides representation. Scotland are 5th in the World, beat Wales reasonably comfortable, beat Ireland as well and the vast majority of their candidates took part in the home and away dismantling of both Racing and Leicester, on top of a decent, if not fantastic autumn. Wales on the other hand have had a poor year by anyone's standards and a dreadful one by their own. It is hard to see that if the coach had been from any other nation that those players all would have been selected.
Yes you will point to Scotland's poor performance against England, but what of Wales' performance against Australia or Japan. Yet the Welsh not only have more players than Scotland but also more Ireland. I really want the Lions to win and I have nothing against Wales but I think the representation for them and Scotland should be more around the 4-6 mark rather than this ridiculous Gatland and his buddies trip down south we've been lumped with.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:51 pm

JD2 was shocking at the weekends game in Cardiff, and Gatland was there to witness it yet he knew he had already selected him, Shocking.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:05 pm

123456789 wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

I don't think I've seen a single Scotland supporter claim that our team are the best in the world but even you would have to admit that it's hard to fully buy into a tour when two Scottish players have been picked and 12 of Gatland's own have gone. This is not, and I feel I have to stress this, a dig at the Welsh players who have been picked nor at Welsh supporters who must be quite rightly happy at the squad, but the stats over the last 12 to 18 months do not support the discrepancy between the two sides representation. Scotland are 5th in the World, beat Wales reasonably comfortable, beat Ireland as well and the vast majority of their candidates took part in the home and away dismantling of both Racing and Leicester, on top of a decent, if not fantastic autumn. Wales on the other hand have had a poor year by anyone's standards and a dreadful one by their own. It is hard to see that if the coach had been from any other nation that those players all would have been selected.
Yes you will point to Scotland's poor performance against England, but what of Wales' performance against Australia or Japan. Yet the Welsh not only have more players than Scotland but also more Ireland. I really want the Lions to win and I have nothing against Wales but I think the representation for them and Scotland should be more around the 4-6 mark rather than this ridiculous Gatland and his buddies trip down south we've been lumped with.

Marvelous post Hug clap
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by wayne on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:11 pm

My tuppence worth, I'm with a lot on here and think Russell should have been in front of my own Regional teams Biggar, but what I harp back to, was the last Lions tour when Dan was the only Welsh player in the starting 15 when we humped England and didn't tour, and basically he was left out because a Scot (Hogg) could play his position, a pity for Russell, perhaps he'll make it in 4 years time.

As I said before the squad was announced it would be a travesty if Roberts had been selected ahead of Joseph, and thankfully he wasn't, and really pleased Hartley is not going. Now last Saturday Justin Tipuric played for the Ospreys in JD5, and the MOTM was rightly given to his opposite number Ellis Jenkins, does that mean he should be selected above Justin for Wales, Lions or anywhere else, NO. Yes Watson was great against Wales, primarily over the ball, is he anywhere as good as a lineout option? I don't think so, linkplay definitely NOT. What I would say is the 3 7s who went last time, even though O'Brien can play elsewhere I think Watson has more of a case at ousting him than Tips. Run

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by majesticimperialman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:18 pm

Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.



Yes and they (Scotland ) still finished above Wales in the 6ns. laughing

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:43 pm

A little levity. Comment from the Guardian's live event during the naming:

"Despite having 16 players in the squad, some England fans are ticked off because Joe Launchbury, George Ford, Dylan Hartley and others have not been picked. The Irish are fed up because Munster and Ireland flanker Donnacha Ryan hasn’t been picked. The Scots are unhappy because they’ve only got two players in the squad and the Welsh are unhappy because Gatland has defied expectations by naming some players in his squad who are English, Irish and Scottish."

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:44 pm

123456789 wrote:This is not, and I feel I have to stress this, a dig at the Welsh players who have been picked nor at Welsh supporters who must be quite rightly happy at the squad, but the stats over the last 12 to 18 months do not support the discrepancy between the two sides representation. Scotland are 5th in the World, beat Wales reasonably comfortable, beat Ireland as well and the vast majority of their candidates took part in the home and away dismantling of both Racing and Leicester, on top of a decent, if not fantastic autumn. Wales on the other hand have had a poor year by anyone's standards and a dreadful one by their own. It is hard to see that if the coach had been from any other nation that those players all would have been selected.

Hard to disagree with that.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by EST on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 5:46 pm

wayne wrote:My tuppence worth, I'm with a lot on here and think Russell should have been in front of my own Regional teams Biggar, but what I harp back to, was the last Lions tour when Dan was the only Welsh player in the starting 15 when we humped England and didn't tour, and basically he was left out because a Scot (Hogg) could play his position, a pity for Russell, perhaps he'll make it in 4 years time.

As I said before the squad was announced it would be a travesty if Roberts had been selected ahead of Joseph, and thankfully he wasn't, and really pleased Hartley is not going. Now last Saturday Justin Tipuric played for the Ospreys in JD5, and the MOTM was rightly given to his opposite number Ellis Jenkins, does that mean he should be selected above Justin for Wales, Lions or anywhere else, NO. Yes Watson was great against Wales, primarily over the ball, is he anywhere as good as a lineout option? I don't think so, linkplay definitely NOT. What I would say is the 3 7s who went last time, even though O'Brien can play elsewhere I think Watson has more of a case at ousting him than Tips.  Run  

Good post Wayne, yes Watson does play in a similar fashion to O'Brien. For the sake of argument, and because they both at 7, i'll use the Tips selection over Watson as an illustration of why I think a lot of Scotland fans are disillusioned.

Firsly, you wont catch me saying that Tips isn't a wonderful player - he is a great tail jumper, has unbelievable skills and his link play is a real asset. Watson on the other hand, is less heralded, but really is having a truly wonderful season, if he wasn't playing for Edinburgh he would get a bucket load more press and recognition. His appearance 20mins into the game against Wales coincided with Scotland getting a foothold in the game, and in the second half he helped relieve Welsh pressure by securing two turnovers - he was the best player on the pitch, regardless of whoever the official MOM was (Russell, I think). Outside of his jackaling, he is a very strong ball carrier for his size and isn't a bad link player either.

Despite them offering differing skill sets, I would argue that both could make a successful contribution to the tour, and both would be worthy of selection. Trying to be objective, I would say its a 50/50 ish call either way. Why not, knowing that you are picking a team to represent the British and Irish Lions and you already have 10 or so Welsh players selected, favour the Scottish option, at least once? There are a number of calls like this throughout the selection - Te'o over Dunbar/Taylor, Henderson over Gray, Nowell over Maitland. Scotland have got none of the 50/50 calls. It is so infuriating.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 6:48 pm

EST wrote:
wayne wrote:My tuppence worth, I'm with a lot on here and think Russell should have been in front of my own Regional teams Biggar, but what I harp back to, was the last Lions tour when Dan was the only Welsh player in the starting 15 when we humped England and didn't tour, and basically he was left out because a Scot (Hogg) could play his position, a pity for Russell, perhaps he'll make it in 4 years time.

As I said before the squad was announced it would be a travesty if Roberts had been selected ahead of Joseph, and thankfully he wasn't, and really pleased Hartley is not going. Now last Saturday Justin Tipuric played for the Ospreys in JD5, and the MOTM was rightly given to his opposite number Ellis Jenkins, does that mean he should be selected above Justin for Wales, Lions or anywhere else, NO. Yes Watson was great against Wales, primarily over the ball, is he anywhere as good as a lineout option? I don't think so, linkplay definitely NOT. What I would say is the 3 7s who went last time, even though O'Brien can play elsewhere I think Watson has more of a case at ousting him than Tips.  Run  

Good post Wayne, yes Watson does play in a similar fashion to O'Brien.  For the sake of argument, and because they both at 7, i'll use the Tips selection over Watson as an illustration of why I think a lot of Scotland fans are disillusioned.

Firsly, you wont catch me saying that Tips isn't a wonderful player - he is a great tail jumper, has unbelievable skills and his link play is a real asset.  Watson on the other hand, is less heralded, but really is having a truly wonderful season, if he wasn't playing for Edinburgh he would get a bucket load more press and recognition.  His appearance 20mins into the game against Wales coincided with Scotland getting a foothold in the game, and in the second half he helped relieve Welsh pressure by securing two turnovers - he was the best player on the pitch, regardless of whoever the official MOM was (Russell, I think).  Outside of his jackaling, he is a very strong ball carrier for his size and isn't a bad link player either.

Despite them offering differing skill sets, I would argue that both could make a successful contribution to the tour, and both would be worthy of selection. Trying to be objective, I would say its a 50/50 ish call either way. Why not, knowing that you are picking a team to represent the British and Irish Lions and you already have 10 or so Welsh players selected, favour the Scottish option, at least once?   There are a number of calls like this throughout the selection - Te'o over Dunbar/Taylor, Henderson over Gray, Nowell over Maitland.  Scotland have got none of the 50/50 calls.  It is so infuriating.

That sums it up nicely. None of the likely 50/50 calls went Scotland's way.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:24 pm

chris_501 wrote:The things that possibly may have swayed things are that Moriarty and Teo were both exceptional at the weekend.

I would have had Gray in my squad for sure, also Huw Jones had he not been injured.

WP Nell is the big loss, for me he would have been a Scottish forward who would have been first in any discussion on tighthead.

If selection was based on this last weekend, Hartley would be going and not George or one of the other two, Hartley played George off the park. It is noticeable that Saints displays often disintegrate over the last 20 when Hartley is routinely subbed when he is still going well and Saints badly miss his captaincy. Wood is just not the Captain Hartley is, EJ can see it, pity WG can't. However, Lions loss is England's gain.

I wonder if one of the selected get injured if Hartley just might tell Gatland where to get off and concentrate on England.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by carpet baboon on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 7:45 pm

Right then, i have spent the day considering the squad over several large gins, and here is my completely pointless views on it.

Props: all in all nothing to complain about. Nel is injured and you could make an argument for Ryan but not a bad selection .

Hookers. One was going to miss out but i thought it would be George not going, but again can't really complain

The row: well as an ireland and Ulster fan i think i Henderson is mighty lucky to be picked. At points this season's he has looked quite disinterested, and both the Gray's and launchbery have fair reason to feel hard done by. Kruis if he gets back up to speed will be fine, and i hope awj can stay fit. I fear he may be the first injury

Back row: right I'm going to say it. Personally i think Moriarty and sob shouldn't be going, and Watson and Haskell should be, we have enough ball carriers who can play 6 and 8 without Moriarty and don't think we need a smash it up 7 in sob. Haskell you can set to tackle monster mode and that's what he will do till he can't walk and Watson is more of a nasty on the floor 7.

No9s. Best 9s we have.

Flyhalf: i think Russell should have been selected as he offers something the others don't. Who to drop? Well if I'm totally honest i would drop bigger and Sexton and take Russell and Jackson.
That way you have controlled Farrell maverick Russell and a bit of both in jackson

Centre's: well he's picked them for a certain game plan. Not sure about teo and worries about jd2s complete inability to pass, but with Farrell Henshaw jj and Payne i think we can do some damage

Back 3. Again quite happy. 1/2p not sure he is showing enough​ and would start Hogg Williams Payne i front of him at 15 and add in that noewel and Watson can also play 15 maybe another out and out winger could have been taken.

Any way there my thoughts. Feel free to abuse them.

Time for more gin

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:12 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Right then, i have spent the day considering the squad over several large gins, and here is my completely pointless views on it.

Props: all in all nothing to complain about. Nel is injured and you could make an argument for Ryan but not a bad selection .

Hookers. One was going to miss out but i thought it would be George not going, but again can't really complain

The row: well as an ireland and Ulster fan i think i Henderson is mighty lucky to be picked. At points this season's he has looked quite disinterested, and both the Gray's and launchbery have fair reason to feel hard done by. Kruis if he gets back up to speed will be fine, and i hope awj can stay fit. I fear he may be the first injury

Back row: right I'm going to say it. Personally i think Moriarty and sob shouldn't be going, and Watson and Haskell should be, we have enough ball carriers who can play 6 and 8 without Moriarty and don't think we need a smash it up 7 in sob. Haskell you can set to tackle monster mode and that's what he will do till he can't walk and Watson is more of a nasty on the floor 7.

No9s. Best 9s we have.

Flyhalf: i think Russell should have been selected as he offers something the others don't. Who to drop? Well if I'm totally honest i would drop bigger and Sexton and take Russell and Jackson.
That way you have controlled Farrell maverick Russell and a bit of both in jackson

Centre's: well he's picked them for a certain game plan. Not sure about teo and worries about jd2s complete inability to pass, but with Farrell Henshaw jj and Payne i think we can do some damage

Back 3. Again quite happy. 1/2p not sure he is showing enough​ and would start Hogg Williams Payne i front of him at 15 and add in that noewel and Watson can also play 15 maybe another out and out winger could have been taken.

Any way there my thoughts. Feel free to abuse them.

Time for more gin

A very good post, Carpet Baboon. I think I agree with every point pretty much. As a Welsh fan I wouldn't have taken Biggar either; there's no need for 1/2p really; Moriaty was not even on my radar for this tournament so I stand my my original thoughts that he should not tour; I too might have taken Jackson (some of the best 10 stats in the 6N) or Russell, but disagree about sexton - would have chosen him from the off.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Scotland finally started to flourish - beat Wales for the first time this century probably - but then they choked when the pressure came on v Eng and Fr and thats what did for them. Take some responsibility and stop whining, its embarrassing.

Yep, and they richly deserved more than 2 players in the Lions squad and maybe Wales should have been the team to have given them a few more....


 I suppose Hogg and Seymour can room together, solves a problem in that area.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:37 pm

Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:45 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.


Maybe Gatland is looking for Arsène Wenger's job?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.


Maybe Gatland is looking for Arsène Wenger's job?

 Who is Arsene Wenger Fly?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:50 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.


Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:54 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.


Maybe Gatland is looking for Arsène Wenger's job?

 Who is Arsene Wenger Fly?

Exactly. Time for new blood. Warren might just be the man to improve the balance in the side.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:55 pm

Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.


Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

No. That's the third three fifth.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 8:59 pm

Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.


Second five eight is centre isn't it?!


 In our language  the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Griff on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:01 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.


Second five eight is centre isn't it?!


 In our language  the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

Oh, OK. 12 and 13 are both centres here (inside and outside), that's where my confusion lay.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:06 pm

Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.


Second five eight is centre isn't it?!


 In our language  the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

Oh, OK. 12 and 13 are both centres here (inside and outside), that's where my confusion lay.

 Probably another of those instances where we are guilty of overthinking it and applying too much detail to each role.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

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