Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 16 - Good Luck, We're All Counting On You

[IanBru]

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Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting:

Guinness Pro12

Guinness Pro12 Website
Edinburgh Rugby (Pro12 Website)
Glasgow Warriors (Pro12 Website)
Guinness Pro12 2016/17 Overview (Ultimate Rugby)

Playlist of all of Edinburgh's Pro12 highlights here.
Playlist of all of Glasgow's Pro12 highlights here.

Europe

European Rugby Website

CHAMPIONS CUP
QUARTER FINAL
SARACENS v GLASGOW WARRIORS
Sun, Apr 2, 13:00, Allianz Park

CHALLENGE CUP
QUARTER FINAL
EDINBURGH v LA ROCHELLE
Fri, March 31, 19:00, Murrayfield Stadium


"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."

[George Carlin]

I loved the Cockers interview with the Scotsman.

He basically said that Edinburgh rugby is Scotland's problem child (correct), relatively speaking, it doesn't have much to be proud of historically in the pro era (again, correct) and too many of its players aren't very good (could not be more correct).

What I am happy about is that Cockerill knows what 'very good' looks like and if attitude is an enema, he will well and truly insert it up the posterior of any remaining McBumfertie who still believes that there is nothing wrong with inertia in a professional sports club. The club needs a change in attitude deperately. It wasn't until Glasgow started being nasty and fighting for every blade of grass that they became difficult to beat. You have to start with being a basteward to beat and the razzle dazzle can follow later.

I am optimistic for the future of Edinburgh and also clear eyed about how long it will take to populate that squad to an acceptable standard and change the culture (2 years).

I am also now a Cockerill fanboi when he very honestly said that he may not be able to get the job done, but sure as hell will try. He's practically Scottish in my eyes, in fact.

[RDW]

I'm in 2 minds about Cockerill's comments - it is refreshing to see some honesty and he's basically saying what we already know, but if that's the attitude he's taking can you imagine the effect this is having on the players?

He's basically saying that the players are crap and that it is going to be a tough task for the team to get better (covering himself in case he fails), and the only way for them to try and get better is to work hard.  Hardly inspiring stuff, especially given the players are probably working their nuts off already - it just isn't directed very well.  One thing you probably can't level at the players is a lack of effort.

So I'm not sure what the players must be thinking - maybe Cockerill is attacking their pride and hoping for a response.  Either way it is going to be an interesting pre-season for the players!

[RuggerRadge2611]

I'm in 2 minds about Cockerill's comments - it is refreshing to see some honesty and he's basically saying what we already know, but if that's the attitude he's taking can you imagine the effect this is having on the players?

He's basically saying that the players are crap and that it is going to be a tough task for the team to get better (covering himself in case he fails), and the only way for them to try and get better is to work hard.  Hardly inspiring stuff, especially given the players are probably working their nuts off already - it just isn't directed very well.  One thing you probably can't level at the players is a lack of effort.

So I'm not sure what the players must be thinking - maybe Cockerill is attacking their pride and hoping for a response.  Either way it is going to be an interesting pre-season for the players!

If the Edinburgh players look at their performances objectively and come to the conclusion, that's good enough. Then frankly they are in the wrong sport. Watson, Toolis, Ford and maybe a few others can say my performance is of an acceptable level but the others, need to take a good look at themselves.

It's not terminal, however to worry about hurting players feelings by telling hard truths isn't something a good coach should shirk away from.

Edinburgh players IMO have the ability but seem to lack the desire Gilchrist and SHC are great examples of players who just last season were tremendous, deserving the plaudits laid on them by Cotter. Now look at them, flat, uninspired, uncaring.

Cockerill is asking some direct questions, "do you want to play pro rugby?" The players need to start providing direct answers.

[EST]

I'm pretty comfortable with his approach - Edinburgh have been poor for far too long, they really have ran out of excuses (to be fair, this never stopped Solly inventing some new ones). There needs to be a fundamental cultural shift, something that successive coaches haven't been able to implement. To do this, Cockers has set out his stall early - those who can't/won't follow his lead will be found out, and a new culture can be built around those players that are left.

Task No.1 - Give the captaincy to Watson.

[RDW]

As much as he is Edinburgh's best player (not a huge accolade I know) there is a lot more to being captain in rugby than that - can imagine us getting a penalty in the opposition 22 while 2 points behind and 1 minute to go and he taps and goes and runs heads first into their forward pack all arms and legs flailing!

I jest, but I'd rather he just concentrates on his own performances - he doesn't strike me as the captain type. Then again I don't really know who is - Jamie Ritchie is probably a captain of the future but he isn't a 1st (or even 2nd) choice pick.

Ben Toolis? He's an experienced member of the squad now and is destined to not add to his Scotland caps tally!

Other than that there's no real standouts.  It probably should have been Super Rugby winning captain Nasi Manu but through injury he just hasn't fulfilled his potential at Edinburgh.

[EST]

I agree he is a slightly manic character to have as captain, but he seems to be one of the only players who has any fight/desire in him.

Cockers has already said it's going to be a player from the younger generations, and I honestly can't think of anybody else.

[BigGee]

Manu has been confirmed as off to Treviso next season on a two year contract. He should have been a good signing for Edinburgh, but it has just not worked out.

[RDW]

Chris Dean has been a captain throughout age grade rugby and strikes me as the captain type, but his performances haven't been great.

There was chat previously about him being a much better 12 - I would agree with that. He doesn't have the pace for 13 and has been caught out badly before.

[EST]

Chris Dean has been a captain throughout age grade rugby and strikes me as the captain type, but his performances haven't been great.

There was chat previously about him being a much better 12 - I would agree with that.  He doesn't have the pace for 13 and has been caught out badly before.

After witnessing some of Dean's shockers this season, I would argue he needs to concentrate on his own performances - I don't think he is a guaranteed starter either.

I'm also not sure if he is the type of guy to usher in a new age for Edinburgh, he doesn't strike me as a particularly belligerent guy.

[RDW]

We need a tough barstweard enforcer type character - hard working, no nonsense, won't accept poor standards etc. McInally and Gilchrist are the current club captains (allegedly) and and are just too nice and are best pals with most of the players and can't see them taking a player to task for not putting the effort in.

Again I don't know who that could be so we maybe have to build a young player into that role and accept that it is a long term process. Bradbury?

[EWT Spoons]

I'd be interested to see how Bresler gets on as Captain. He's near guaranteed a starting position, we are unlikely to lose him during international windows, despite him becoming SQ soon(ish) he's probably quite far down the selection list.

He generally plays well (by Edinburgh standards). I have no idea if he's able to string a couple of sentences together or if he's actually a capable leader, but from the outside looking in, he could be a contender based on nothing more than a lack of other standout options.

[EWT Spoons]

Ritchie was club captain at Heriots, no idea if that was by virtue of being the best player or because he has actual leadership ability, he could be a long term option, and he's one of the few players we have who seem to be actually improving. That said he's playing in arguably the most competitive position at the club with Hardie and Watson ahead of him.

[RDW]

If SHC hadn't had his massive drop of form he probably would have been a contender - he's got the ability, intelligence and charisma to be an effective captain and is more experienced now but until he's clear 1st choice 9 again there is no point in giving it to him.

Bresler is certainly the enforcer type but I don't think there's too much between the ears!

[EWT Spoons]

I totally agree that SHC in theory is the ideal choice, but just isn't consistent enough or guaranteed a place currently. That may change when Cockerill comes in and he persists with one scrum half rather than the rotation policy Hodge is using.

Possibly right about Bresler, as I said it was based on nothing more than a lack of other real candidates.

[tigertattie]

IfI had to pick a captain it would be one of

Dickinson
Nel
Toolis
CDP

[EWT Spoons]

IfI had to pick a captain it would be one of

Dickinson
Nel
Toolis
CDP

I can see the rationale behind Dickinson and Toolis, but Nel just doesn't speak. I get you can lead by example, but Nel just doesn't talk. Which is fine in some ways but if he needs to talk to the ref then he's likely to struggle, as it's clearly not something he is comfortable with.

CDP isn't exactly chatty either and he's not even got form to fall back on currently.

From your list I'd probably go with Toolis.

[EWT Spoons]

There are rumours that Big Jim has recently bought a house in Edinburgh. He's out of contract with Sarries this summer, we could do worse than signing him (unless the LI rumours are more than just rumour). He's won a lot at club level and could instil a winning mentality amongst the players.

Plus I thought he was superb against Glasgow, so is clearly still able to play a bit.

There is nothing behind this rumour other than he's out of contract and is buying a house (which in itself is a rumour), but I'd be happy if he joined Edinburgh.

[RDW]

There are rumours that Big Jim has recently bought a house in Edinburgh.  He's out of contract with Sarries this summer, we could do worse than signing him (unless the LI rumours are more than just rumour).  He's won a lot at club level and could instil a winning mentality amongst the players.

Plus I thought he was superb against Glasgow, so is clearly still able to play a bit.

There is nothing behind this rumour other than he's out of contract and is buying a house (which in itself is a rumour), but I'd be happy if he joined Edinburgh.

That's impressive knowledge - are you the one that also knows where Nel lives?

Starting to get a bit stalkery if you are...!

[EWT Spoons]

No I don't know where Nel lives, I mean I know very roughly, but that's about it.

I also don't know for sure if Jim has bought a house in Edinburgh, it's just a rumour. But he has been in Edinburgh a fair bit (reliable source....lad who cuts my hair...watertight).

[tigertattie]

My next door neighbour's cousin's best pal's teacher's dog walker said that it's true also!

[RuggerRadge2611]

This is tenuous stuff lads! Haha

[EWT Spoons]

My next door neighbour's cousin's best pal's teacher's dog walker said that it's true also!

Boom! confirmation!!!

[EWT Spoons]

For clarity all I was really saying is he's out of contract, used to play for us and seemingly has a decent relationship with Cockerill (end of the fact portion of this chat), he may have bought a house in Edinburgh and has been spending a fair bit of time up here.

I know there is sod all evidence to suggest he'd be interested, but from an Edinburgh pov, we could do worse than seeing if he'd fancy joining for a season with an option to do some coaching on the side.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

For clarity all I was really saying is he's out of contract, used to play for us and seemingly has a decent relationship with Cockerill (end of the fact portion of this chat), he may have bought a house in Edinburgh and has been spending a fair bit of time up here.

I know there is sod all evidence to suggest he'd be interested, but from an Edinburgh pov, we could do worse than seeing if he'd fancy joining for a season with an option to do some coaching on the side.

He's also contracted to London Irish next year. Though there are rumours he may retire instead - scope for doing an Andy Goode maybe

[EWT Spoons]

For clarity all I was really saying is he's out of contract, used to play for us and seemingly has a decent relationship with Cockerill (end of the fact portion of this chat), he may have bought a house in Edinburgh and has been spending a fair bit of time up here.

I know there is sod all evidence to suggest he'd be interested, but from an Edinburgh pov, we could do worse than seeing if he'd fancy joining for a season with an option to do some coaching on the side.

He's also contracted to London Irish next year. Though there are rumours he may retire instead - scope for doing an Andy Goode maybe

I did allude to his LI position earlier, I've not seen anything confirmed on that, so was hoping it was just rumour as it does somewhat ruin my idle speculation.  

[funnyExiledScot]

The captain needs to be Hamish Watson. The next two years are about instilling the right culture and mentality at the club. As GC puts it, fighting for every blade of grass. We don't need a philosopher captain, we need a player who embodies exactly the sort of attitude that all our players need to emulate. Gilchrist was an awful choice of captain: an injury-prone inconsistent player who is more than capable but doesn't pull his finger out often enough. McInally is still learning the trade in his position and, on form, is probably 3rd choice behind Ford and Cochrane.

As for RDW's suggestion of Chris Dean, I'm going to blame that on jet lag. Either that or the love child of Scott Johnson and Matt Williams has hacked into his account (just picture it....).

Hamish Watson is 100% the right choice. I don't care whether he says a single word next season, he has been consistently good his entire career and would lead by example.

Ritchie looks like a future captain, but he needs to work out whether he's a 6 or a 7, plus with Watson and Hardie fit he doesn't get into the team.

[RDW]

The captain needs to be Hamish Watson. The next two years are about instilling the right culture and mentality at the club. As GC puts it, fighting for every blade of grass. We don't need a philosopher captain, we need a player who embodies exactly the sort of attitude that all our players need to emulate. Gilchrist was an awful choice of captain: an injury-prone inconsistent player who is more than capable but doesn't pull his finger out often enough. McInally is still learning the trade in his position and, on form, is probably 3rd choice behind Ford and Cochrane.

As for RDW's suggestion of Chris Dean, I'm going to blame that on jet lag. Either that or the love child of Scott Johnson and Matt Williams has hacked into his account (just picture it....).

Hamish Watson is 100% the right choice. I don't care whether he says a single word next season, he has been consistently good his entire career and would lead by example.

Ritchie looks like a future captain, but he needs to work out whether he's a 6 or a 7, plus with Watson and Hardie fit he doesn't get into the team.

I was merely saying that he has shown leadership ability in the past, but noted that he's not been playing well too to deserve it!

[RDW]

The BBC has picked up the Manu leaving story too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39575822

A few things stand out to me:

He's only 28

He only managed 16 appearances in 2 years!

[funnyExiledScot]

The captain needs to be Hamish Watson. The next two years are about instilling the right culture and mentality at the club. As GC puts it, fighting for every blade of grass. We don't need a philosopher captain, we need a player who embodies exactly the sort of attitude that all our players need to emulate. Gilchrist was an awful choice of captain: an injury-prone inconsistent player who is more than capable but doesn't pull his finger out often enough. McInally is still learning the trade in his position and, on form, is probably 3rd choice behind Ford and Cochrane.

As for RDW's suggestion of Chris Dean, I'm going to blame that on jet lag. Either that or the love child of Scott Johnson and Matt Williams has hacked into his account (just picture it....).

Hamish Watson is 100% the right choice. I don't care whether he says a single word next season, he has been consistently good his entire career and would lead by example.

Ritchie looks like a future captain, but he needs to work out whether he's a 6 or a 7, plus with Watson and Hardie fit he doesn't get into the team.

I was merely saying that he has shown leadership ability in the past, but noted that he's not been playing well too to deserve it!

He's done almost nothing this season to suggest he has much of a future as a professional rugby player. He's average at 12 and a complete liability at 13. Hodge's decision to select Dean at 13 ahead of Allan is exactly why Hodge needs to rethink his line of work. My guess is that in two or three years time Dean will be doing something else for a living. He'd be close to bottom of my list of captaincy contenders for next season.

He may well have been a captain at age grade level, but as a player I don't think he's going to survive at this level once a proper coach takes over.

[RDW]

The captain needs to be Hamish Watson. The next two years are about instilling the right culture and mentality at the club. As GC puts it, fighting for every blade of grass. We don't need a philosopher captain, we need a player who embodies exactly the sort of attitude that all our players need to emulate. Gilchrist was an awful choice of captain: an injury-prone inconsistent player who is more than capable but doesn't pull his finger out often enough. McInally is still learning the trade in his position and, on form, is probably 3rd choice behind Ford and Cochrane.

As for RDW's suggestion of Chris Dean, I'm going to blame that on jet lag. Either that or the love child of Scott Johnson and Matt Williams has hacked into his account (just picture it....).

Hamish Watson is 100% the right choice. I don't care whether he says a single word next season, he has been consistently good his entire career and would lead by example.

Ritchie looks like a future captain, but he needs to work out whether he's a 6 or a 7, plus with Watson and Hardie fit he doesn't get into the team.

I was merely saying that he has shown leadership ability in the past, but noted that he's not been playing well too to deserve it!

He's done almost nothing this season to suggest he has much of a future as a professional rugby player. He's average at 12 and a complete liability at 13. Hodge's decision to select Dean at 13 ahead of Allan is exactly why Hodge needs to rethink his line of work. My guess is that in two or three years time Dean will be doing something else for a living. He'd be close to bottom of my list of captaincy contenders for next season.

He may well have been a captain at age grade level, but as a player I don't think he's going to survive at this level once a proper coach takes over.

Say what you think FES - don't hold back!

(I also think you're being slightly harsh - he has shown some good play but on a whole he has been disappointing)

[funnyExiledScot]

The captain needs to be Hamish Watson. The next two years are about instilling the right culture and mentality at the club. As GC puts it, fighting for every blade of grass. We don't need a philosopher captain, we need a player who embodies exactly the sort of attitude that all our players need to emulate. Gilchrist was an awful choice of captain: an injury-prone inconsistent player who is more than capable but doesn't pull his finger out often enough. McInally is still learning the trade in his position and, on form, is probably 3rd choice behind Ford and Cochrane.

As for RDW's suggestion of Chris Dean, I'm going to blame that on jet lag. Either that or the love child of Scott Johnson and Matt Williams has hacked into his account (just picture it....).

Hamish Watson is 100% the right choice. I don't care whether he says a single word next season, he has been consistently good his entire career and would lead by example.

Ritchie looks like a future captain, but he needs to work out whether he's a 6 or a 7, plus with Watson and Hardie fit he doesn't get into the team.

I was merely saying that he has shown leadership ability in the past, but noted that he's not been playing well too to deserve it!

He's done almost nothing this season to suggest he has much of a future as a professional rugby player. He's average at 12 and a complete liability at 13. Hodge's decision to select Dean at 13 ahead of Allan is exactly why Hodge needs to rethink his line of work. My guess is that in two or three years time Dean will be doing something else for a living. He'd be close to bottom of my list of captaincy contenders for next season.

He may well have been a captain at age grade level, but as a player I don't think he's going to survive at this level once a proper coach takes over.

Say what you think FES - don't hold back!

(I also think you're being slightly harsh - he has shown some good play but on a whole he has been disappointing)

I just feel that it would send a horrible message to consider anyone who represents complete and utter mediocrity to be leader of the club.

It worked once with Al Kellock, but I feel that he's the exception that proves the rule......

For me, Watson is a no-brainer. The only downside would be that Hardie provides stiff competition for the 7 jersey, but in all honesty we could do much worse than have them both on the flanks at the same time.

[RDW]

Slightly controversial here but am I alone in thinking that Hardie has been disappointing since the world cup? Now, he has been injured a lot and hasn't strung many games together but he certainly hasn't been consistently good as he was then. He's also prone to rushing up and trying to smash people, but sometimes missing completely. Watson seems to get more turnovers too and is a bigger ball carrier.

After the World Cup he was tipped for the Lions - it is amazing how quickly things change.

[funnyExiledScot]

Slightly controversial here but am I alone in thinking that Hardie has been disappointing since the world cup? Now, he has been injured a lot and hasn't strung many games together but he certainly hasn't been consistently good as he was then. He's also prone to rushing up and trying to smash people, but sometimes missing completely.  Watson seems to get more turnovers too and is a bigger ball carrier.

After the World Cup he was tipped for the Lions - it is amazing how quickly things change.

On this we are agreed. His performances at the World Cup were excellent, but since then he's fallen off. It's probably the Edinburgh Effect - we kill careers. The other possibility is that he was exhausted, and merited a much longer break after the World Cup. Either way, like almost all players who arrive at Edinburgh, he's half the player now than he was when he arrived. Watson has overtaken him for club and country, albeit I'm confident that Hardie has the class to come back (probably if he moves).

[RDW]

Slightly controversial here but am I alone in thinking that Hardie has been disappointing since the world cup? Now, he has been injured a lot and hasn't strung many games together but he certainly hasn't been consistently good as he was then. He's also prone to rushing up and trying to smash people, but sometimes missing completely.  Watson seems to get more turnovers too and is a bigger ball carrier.

After the World Cup he was tipped for the Lions - it is amazing how quickly things change.

On this we are agreed. His performances at the World Cup were excellent, but since then he's fallen off. It's probably the Edinburgh Effect - we kill careers. The other possibility is that he was exhausted, and merited a much longer break after the World Cup. Either way, like almost all players who arrive at Edinburgh, he's half the player now than he was when he arrived. Watson has overtaken him for club and country, albeit I'm confident that Hardie has the class to come back (probably if he moves).

I don't disagree with you on Chris Dean - at no point did I say he should be captain, just that he'd been captain in the past (although I appreciate this may have been interpreted that I was saying that he should be captain!)

[tigertattie]

Even I've been captain before and I was average at best!

Why was I captain? Probably because I was the only one with a modest amount of intelligence! I used to have to call the line outs as no one else could A) decide what type of ball we wanted depending on what area of the pitch we were in and B) no one else seemed to be able to generate random calls that meant something to us but wouldn't tip off the opposition

[funnyExiledScot]

Slightly controversial here but am I alone in thinking that Hardie has been disappointing since the world cup? Now, he has been injured a lot and hasn't strung many games together but he certainly hasn't been consistently good as he was then. He's also prone to rushing up and trying to smash people, but sometimes missing completely.  Watson seems to get more turnovers too and is a bigger ball carrier.

After the World Cup he was tipped for the Lions - it is amazing how quickly things change.

On this we are agreed. His performances at the World Cup were excellent, but since then he's fallen off. It's probably the Edinburgh Effect - we kill careers. The other possibility is that he was exhausted, and merited a much longer break after the World Cup. Either way, like almost all players who arrive at Edinburgh, he's half the player now than he was when he arrived. Watson has overtaken him for club and country, albeit I'm confident that Hardie has the class to come back (probably if he moves).

I don't disagree with you on Chris Dean - at no point did I say he should be captain, just that he'd been captain in the past (although I appreciate this may have been interpreted that I was saying that he should be captain!)

Yeh yeh, you're just backing down because you know I'm right

Who was your second choice? Nick Beavon?

[George Carlin]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but who took the jam out your doughnut today GC?

[George Carlin]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but who took the jam out your doughnut today GC?

It's a fair point.

Without a word of a lie, the last two weeks have involved the loss of a parent, a vasectomy, Glasgow tanking in the league and in Europe and a sh!t ton of work to get through in very high stakes projects. Can't wait for the funeral to be over (it's on Tuesday back home).

All that aside, Chris Dean is still really not very good at rugby.

[CraigS1874]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

Chris is a friend of mine so il try and not act like a defensive parent regarding him However I do think his limitations can be attributed to the fact that he played high school rugby in the back row before the SRU signed him on 7s contract, then he signed for Edinburgh and (with very little club experience) he has had to serve his apprentice as a centre for a pro team playing outside the meatball, hardly the easiest place to thrive.

However I do see what you mean regarding Scottish averageness, in my opinion a lot of this is purely due to the lack of depth in the Scottish game, Chris Dean played against my team in a School Scottish cup semi final which his EA side won 67-0, if that is considered to be the most competitive Scottish environment for young players then these players are in for a shock when they play senior rugby. I remember from the age of 8 our tactic was give the ball to him he will break tackles and score, it doesn't help player development.

I think there is a huge amount to be said for players such as fraser brown, matt scott and even huw jones who werent picked up by the SRU aged 14 and have played a considerable amount of senior rugby before people actually notice they have ability at that level.

[George Carlin]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

Chris is a friend of mine so il try and not act like a defensive parent regarding him However I do think his limitations can be attributed to the fact that he played high school rugby in the back row before the SRU signed him on 7s contract, then he signed for Edinburgh and (with very little club experience) he has had to serve his apprentice as a centre for a pro team playing outside the meatball, hardly the easiest place to thrive.

However I do see what you mean regarding Scottish averageness, in my opinion a lot of this is purely due to the lack of depth in the Scottish game, Chris Dean played against my team in a School Scottish cup semi final which his EA side won 67-0, if that is considered to be the most competitive Scottish environment for young players then these players are in for a shock when they play senior rugby. I remember from the age of 8 our tactic was give the ball to him he will break tackles and score, it doesn't help player development.

I think there is a huge amount to be said for players such as fraser brown, matt scott and even huw jones who werent picked up by the SRU aged 14 and have played a considerable amount of senior rugby before people actually notice they have ability at that level.

Schooled.

No offence to Mr Dean. I'm sure he is a super chap.

I completely agree that in a couple of years the new academies should up the standards considerably at school age. Here's hoping. We can't keep relying on our unofficial feeder regime (aka the Newcastle Falcons Academy).

[R!skysports]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but who took the jam out your doughnut today GC?

It's a fair point.

Without a word of a lie, the last two weeks have involved the loss of a parent, a vasectomy, Glasgow tanking in the league and in Europe and a sh!t ton of work to get through in very high stakes projects. Can't wait for the funeral to be over (it's on Tuesday back home).

All that aside, Chris Dean is still really not very good at rugby.

Sorry to hear that. Hope it is all ok

[jimbopip]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but who took the jam out your doughnut today GC?

It's a fair point.

Without a word of a lie, the last two weeks have involved the loss of a parent, a vasectomy, Glasgow tanking in the league and in Europe and a sh!t ton of work to get through in very high stakes projects. Can't wait for the funeral to be over (it's on Tuesday back home).

All that aside, Chris Dean is still really not very good at rugby.

[funnyExiledScot]

Chris Dean is the rugby equivalent of having piles, flatulence and an inability to maintain an erection at the same time. I don't so much hate him as despise the awful, crushing, mundane averageness that he represents which is a microcosm of what Scottish sport used to regard as acceptable.

He is the sort of player which really does make you think that you could have gone pro yourself if you had just stuck at it and weren't any good at anything else.

He is also precisely who should be jettisoned in favour of real players and I completely endorse my learned friend from Stockbridge who suggested that professional sport is probably not for him if he looked hard at what the rest of the northern hemisphere regards as a reasonable standard.

Chris is a friend of mine so il try and not act like a defensive parent regarding him However I do think his limitations can be attributed to the fact that he played high school rugby in the back row before the SRU signed him on 7s contract, then he signed for Edinburgh and (with very little club experience) he has had to serve his apprentice as a centre for a pro team playing outside the meatball, hardly the easiest place to thrive.

Thanks for this, always great to get some real insight into what's going on. I suppose my only comment to add to this is why on Earth is a converted flanker being thrown into the deep end like this, and particularly at 13 where his lack of pace on the outside has been horribly exposed. Hodge has handled this extremely poorly, and it hasn't been necessary either. Allan has looked very accomplished at 13 and is clearly a better fit in that position. Dean has never looked particularly comfortable at this level, but his best role is clearly at 12, taking the ball into contact and making his hits (being an ex-back row forward now makes sense).

I maintain that Dean has thus far not been good enough, but your explanation brings Hodge firmly into the equation here.

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh are announcing a signing today, not sure if it's a new signing or someone signing a new contract.

My money is on Jim Hamilton

[RDW]

They tweeted that it was a re-signing.

[funnyExiledScot]

They tweeted that it was a re-signing.

8 year deal for Chris Dean?

[EWT Spoons]

They tweeted that it was a re-signing.

Must have missed that one, the only tweet I've seen from them about it says "a player has put pen to paper, find out who has signed a deal with the club later this morning"

Vague enough to be either, but a re-signing seems the most likely.

[funnyExiledScot]

Hopefully: Sutherland, Toolis, Bresler, Hardie, Watson, SH-C, Tovey, Burleigh, Allan, Hoyland or Kinghorn.

Hopefully not: Weir, Dean, Helu or Bryce (the fullback).

[RDW]

Grant Gilchrist 2 year deal.

That's a big 'meh' from me.

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