This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

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This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 8:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Betting has been suspended on Sam Warburton being selected as the 2017 Lions skipper. Apparently this may be based on insider knowledge though heaven forbid we dont want to start a new conspiracy theory, it seems likely that big Sam is our Captain again.  clap

Though the haters will not even have him touring (Robshaw is after all back to fitness etc) after a superb 6 Nations the back row has self selected the favorites. Most of us want Billy and i imagine anyone who has a clue about Gatland knows Sam will figure. His upturn in form should continue and if he remains injury free the job is his. In addition to his past glories at 7, Super Sam has now established himself as probably the best all round 6 available with Stander and POM knocking loudly, who also cuts a fine figure at 7 and it seems Sam will almost certainly start the Tests in one shirt or the other and he has therefore put himself into an interesting group of those players inked in to starting Test berths (Farrell, Billy, ?)

Gats loves a player who can cover 2 spots, and with his versatility and Captaincy credentials both in Wales and as a past winning Lion, he seems now to be heir apparent and a shoo in for the Captaincy.  Yahoo My only reservation is that having been relieved of the Wales Captaincy he has thrived, but the selection of a strong leadership group, the Lions siege mentality and its defined short period should enable him to get his head right for the duration.

Much has been said about AWJ as a potential Lions skipper, there being few other deserving candidates. Hartley anyone? Or Best?  Not likely. But his taciturn, somewhat antagonistic nature in front of the camera won't go down well in NZ. I do not believe he has thrived as Wales Captain under a disastrous Head Coach and since i accept he is by no means guaranteed a starting position and is injured, I think it is clear that he will tour if fit but has not done enough to become skipper, though will stand in admirably as he has before.

Sam it is then.  king

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:29 pm

Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:
Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:Yes, Warburton has been excellent this season. But he was also equally as good, if not better, down in NZ, in the Summer of 2016...when he was Wales captain. He was the standout Welsh player, alongside Liam Williams, in that series (North had a great first game before injury, AWJ, Webb, and Moriarty all looked decent, too- this could be important in the Lions context, as that Tour was a Lions warm up after all).
Wales lost those tests by an average of 24 points per game (not to mention the Chiefs debacle and getting smashed by England by 5 tries to 1 in the pre-tour game). If that's a Lions warm-up (and you think that tour was ok) then things are going to go exactly as I fear (or worse) this summer. Gats and Howley were in harness during that tour.

Wales lost to Australia 3-0 in 2012, and then a Lions Tour comprised on many Welsh players won the series 2-1 the next Summer. That 3-0 whitewash ended up being a useful warm up 12 months out. I think, for several reasons I've stated here over the past few weeks but won't again, that the Tour last Summer in NZ was, likewise, a good Tour.
You can't compare that Aussie shower of 2012/13 to NZ. That's just strange. How the Lions didn't manage a whitewash over the Aussies should be a matter of great shame. They even came within a missed kick of losing the series  Shocked

....and within a missed kick of whitewashing the Aussies. Whatever suits your agenda though, you've been at it for 3 years now. Pathetic.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Cyril on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:31 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:
Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:Yes, Warburton has been excellent this season. But he was also equally as good, if not better, down in NZ, in the Summer of 2016...when he was Wales captain. He was the standout Welsh player, alongside Liam Williams, in that series (North had a great first game before injury, AWJ, Webb, and Moriarty all looked decent, too- this could be important in the Lions context, as that Tour was a Lions warm up after all).
Wales lost those tests by an average of 24 points per game (not to mention the Chiefs debacle and getting smashed by England by 5 tries to 1 in the pre-tour game). If that's a Lions warm-up (and you think that tour was ok) then things are going to go exactly as I fear (or worse) this summer. Gats and Howley were in harness during that tour.

Wales lost to Australia 3-0 in 2012, and then a Lions Tour comprised on many Welsh players won the series 2-1 the next Summer. That 3-0 whitewash ended up being a useful warm up 12 months out. I think, for several reasons I've stated here over the past few weeks but won't again, that the Tour last Summer in NZ was, likewise, a good Tour.
You can't compare that Aussie shower of 2012/13 to NZ. That's just strange. How the Lions didn't manage a whitewash over the Aussies should be a matter of great shame. They even came within a missed kick of losing the series  Shocked

....and within a missed kick of whitewashing the Aussies. Whatever suits your agenda though, you've been at it for 3 years now. Pathetic.
It should never have been anywhere near that close though. It'll be the same old tactics this year, but against a side massively superior.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:35 pm

I've said it before but Corbisero should have been man of the series, when he was on the pitch the lions were dominant and when he wasn't they weren't.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:39 pm

Sack Gats, Borthwick, etc. as these geniuses will get the Lions to win each AB-test 100 nil Rolling Eyes.


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by miaow on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:40 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I will keep my optimism in reserve until the squad is announced. I will give Gatland the benefit of the doubt, unlike others on here. He has a chance to win the series, but he has to pick the best players from the countries and maximise their strengths to be successful.

The biggest concern coaching wise is Howley. Wales attack this year is akin to Scotland's attack under Andy Robinson, absolutely rank rotten. The players for Wales generally speaking are good, but they have not fired at all. Mainly because the likes of Halfpenny, JD and North have been quite inconsistent. Webb and Liam Williams have been outstanding though.

See, this is where I think being Welsh actually helps, because that's just not true. In the last 12 months, excluding the Autumn, the Welsh attack has been as good as it's been since the 2011 RWC.

Some of the tries scored have been unbelievably good in terms of tactics. Faletau's first try against NZ. Liam Williams's against England. North's first against Ireland. These are some astoundingly good tries, forged on the training ground, requiring some very good handling, timing, and execution for them to come off. You could also add the quick tap that led to Liam Williams's try against Scotland, that's been missing for a while.

The problem for Wales as I can see it is that they're very good at those first phase tries, or when things go "well", i.e. the field looks like the X's and O's they prepared for in training. Where they really struggle is to get the game going when it'sdepp into a multi-phase play. They had so many of these opportunities against England, where they had them on the rack, in their 22, but kept hammering away, trying to get that momentum from which they could then spring an attack. The key reason Engand won that game- other than excellent handling and composure on their end, the English replacements and Wales tiring, and lineout errors at key moments- was Wales had to work so much harder for their try than England did.

There are several reasons for this, not least Welsh mental weakness, which I don't think relates to the Lions to be honest. The other thing, then, is the 10, 12, and 13. Biggar, Scott Williams, JD2. None of them are natural footballers, but they're all excellent players in their own right. However, in terms of being able to create off slow, or static, or a misplaced ball, as a unit, they just don't have it. Sometimes, it's horses for courses, and I don't believe Howley is to blame here. When that multi-phase play occurs, when the ball slows down, or when the field is broken and the team is looking to open up and score a try, if Scott Williams had Ford or Sexton at 10, or Biggar had Farrell or a Henson at 12, they'd be so much better, individually and as a team. As it is, it's a sort of accumulation of ball handling/footballing deficiency that adds up from 10-13. For Wales, Sam Davies will be the answer to this.

For the Lions, I think the promising thing to look at with regards to Howley's attack is that not only has Wales's first phase attacking play looked good again, but that- down in NZ, and why that Welsh Tour was so useful for Gatland and the Lions- Wales showed they could stretch NZ and score through concerted pressure. Faletau's try is genuinely a fantastic score, and although there's nothing scintillating or showy about it, it's the kind of model the Lions will look to add into a dogged defence, low error, and accurate goalkicking game.

So, in short, I absolutely disagree that Howley is a no hoper as a coach, and that Wales have been particularly poor across the board. Sometimes they've looked excellent. Sometimes they've looked lost. Other times, it's been that last pass not going to hand that's been the difference between a score to win the game after a good counter attack (Webb against England, Biggar against France) and a loss. Fine margins that- as Wales/Lions in 2012/2013 showed- can be improved by taking a model, coaches, and certain players, and topping them up in a better environment. Whilst they'll be fewer Welsh players this time around, I wouldn't be worried about Howley's tactics being implemented by Sexton, Farrell, Joseph, Hogg etc. You put North and Liam Williams in amongst those players, and I'd be very excited to see what they could do.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by miaow on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:42 pm

Cyril wrote:You can't compare that Aussie shower of 2016 to the Australia of 2015. That's just strange.

Fixed.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:46 pm

miaow wrote:
Cyril wrote:You can't compare that Aussie shower of 2016 to the Australia of 2015. That's just strange.

Fixed.

Australia 32-8 Wales
England 37-21 Australia

Most recent results, doesn't look good for you.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:53 pm

The English arrogance on this merry afternoon is more astounding than usual. In 2012 England lost to Aus http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/20347064; and suffered a horrific choke in the 2013 6N. Gatland decided to supplement the 2013 Lions with back-to-back 6N champions, whilst England and Ireland also provided a lot of good players. The balance was right, but it was at it's best in the third test where the Lions hammered Aus. This year should see more England players and rightfully so. I'm fed up of complementing the team to you 'fans' tbh, unless people are talking about how great England are 24/7 you seem to want to show off like children.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by miaow on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 12:54 pm

For me? What do you mean by that?

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by miaow on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 1:15 pm

In case anyone wants to appreciate Faletau's try against NZ. Some very good analysis, and a sign of how well structured attacking play, as well as adding in a bit of heads up Rugby that a proper second 5/8th (Farrell) will bring, can work wonders with the right execution and confidence.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/wales-countries/try-analysis-taulupe-faletau-try-shows-new-way-wales-58721

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 1:52 pm

miaow wrote:In case anyone wants to appreciate Faletau's try against NZ. Some very good analysis, and a sign of how well structured attacking play, as well as adding in a bit of heads up Rugby that a proper second 5/8th (Farrell) will bring, can work wonders with the right execution and confidence.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/wales-countries/try-analysis-taulupe-faletau-try-shows-new-way-wales-58721

Thanks for that miaow that was a terrific read. One of the best posts I have seen on this kind of thread! Hug

I think my comment about Wales attack being rank rotten was on the hyberbole ish spectrum for sure. However I think what is probably more accurate is that the game plan has not been executed well, or as well as it could be. The telling stat is the lack of tries Wales scored in the 6N.

For me an others, Scotland's multiple phase attack is probably the best in the NH at the moment, and here is an article by rugby planet discussing the multiple phase attacking play Scotland were doing in the Autumn vs Oz.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-attack-speed-and-confidence-for-new-scotland/

Furthermore here is a couple of you tube videos detailing their attacking game in last years 6N.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduN4AZ-NXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmzdaNMFxu0


For me this is the sort of attacking threat that the Lions could and IMO should try to replicate in the summer. England's 1st phase attack absolutely shredded Scotland, however the All Blacks tend to rarely concede 1st phase tries.

Hence building a really solid multiple phase game like the Scotland attack has is the way to beat them. The lions certainly have the players to execute this sort of thing, I just hope that there is the coaching acumen to give it a go.  thumbsup
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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:05 pm

I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:12 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

It's nothing Lawes, Launchbury and Itoje can't handle.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:15 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though
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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

It's nothing Lawes, Launchbury and Itoje can't handle.

Please leave them all out of the tests. Pretty please Warren. Toner and Jim Hamilton will do a grand old job Wink
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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:21 pm

Toner did a grand old job against NZ the last three times he has played against you. Just saying.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:23 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though

Read's form has dipped a lot since '03 thought hasnt it? Is he still guaranteed to start if fit?

I assume Beauden Barrett wouldnt start in the Hurricanes v Lions game?

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:24 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

It's nothing Lawes, Launchbury and Itoje can't handle.

Please leave them all out of the tests. Pretty please Warren. Toner and Jim Hamilton will do a grand old job Wink

The test team is as follows:

Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje
Lawes, Launchbury,
Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury,
Itoje, Lawes,
Launchabury, Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury,
Hogg.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:30 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though

Read's form has dipped a lot since '03 thought hasnt it? Is he still guaranteed to start if fit?

I assume Beauden Barrett wouldnt start in the Hurricanes v Lions game?

We'll have to see how he goes once he's back in Super Rugby.

Who covers for him is a question being asked at home though
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/91014887/super-rugbys-burning-questions-how-the-competition-rates-how-to-fix-the-format-and-nzs-best-player
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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:31 pm

Cool thanks.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:18 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:This has all the hallmarks of an excellent Tour, possibly the greatest of the professional era.
Laugh

This is brilliant!

In what way, as in it will be a brilliant tour?

Let's see;
The Lions are supplemented by the best England team in pro era (arguable);
They're supplemented by Irish players who have beat the No1 and 2 ranked teams in the world this year;
The Super Rugby teams will contain their AB players, thus being at full strength and enabling for a much higher quality match.

ABs are the best in the world and stand a chance of losing the series IMO.

The way England are going by the next NZ tour it will be NZ v NZ Reject Lions

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Cyril on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:22 pm

Gwlad wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Cyril wrote:
miaow wrote:This has all the hallmarks of an excellent Tour, possibly the greatest of the professional era.
Laugh

This is brilliant!

In what way, as in it will be a brilliant tour?

Let's see;
The Lions are supplemented by the best England team in pro era (arguable);
They're supplemented by Irish players who have beat the No1 and 2 ranked teams in the world this year;
The Super Rugby teams will contain their AB players, thus being at full strength and enabling for a much higher quality match.

ABs are the best in the world and stand a chance of losing the series IMO.

The way England are going by the next NZ tour it will be NZ v NZ Reject Lions
Yep. Maybe the English players in the Welsh team could make up the dirt-trackers?

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:35 pm

Cyril wrote:
Yep. Maybe the English players in the Welsh team could make up the dirt-trackers?

Who?

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:37 pm

Round and round and round we go.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Round and round and round we go.

You're surprised? England posters dragging articles off topic when their team isn't being talked about enough is the norm.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:53 pm

This is a lions thread. Not england vs wales.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:This is a lions thread. Not england vs wales.

YES! Thank you.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 3:58 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Round and round and round we go.

Who will England pick next, nobody knows!

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:03 pm

Guys, let us all unite in this great common cause (includes you Scots for now), we will fight them in the changing rooms, we will fight them in the stands, we will fight them on the touchline and under the posts before hey score 50, we will never surrender for we are the Lions, English, Welsh, Irish, Scots and ahem, stringers vs the All Blacks.
Never in the field of rugby endeavor has so much been owed by so many to so few PI Imports.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm

A lions thread gwlad not england so I'd you want to talk england go there.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:21 pm

Sam Warburton is a good/great player. he as certainly been playing a lot better since he had the Welsh Captaincy taken off him.


Since losing the Captains arm band to AWJ. Question is, Will he simply wan't it back for the Lions? I am not saying he could not do the job, he could. But would he simply wan't to continue playing ( Great rugby ) and not having to worry about the captaincy.

So who should be Captain? Don't know is the honest answer.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 4:59 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:A lions thread gwlad not england so I'd you want to talk england go there.

I know its a Lions thread, i wrote it.

What are you the 606 Traffic Warden? laughing

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:00 pm

No but others may want to talk about the lions rather than England as mikey above says.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No but others may want to talk about the lions rather than England as mikey above says.

well then talk about them ffs, Stop taking yourself so seriously. Rolling Eyes


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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:14 pm

Ok. You wanted to talk about who england pick next as nobody knows. I think the obvious one is Solomona. I still reckon that Mercer may get a chance in Argentina from the bench as Vunipola is likely to be picked for the Lions. Really though Jones has been very consistent in his selection so not sure where you're insinuation that nobody knows where the next debut will come from.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:38 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I've said it before but Corbisero should have been man of the series, when he was on the pitch the lions were dominant and when he wasn't they weren't.

No self respecting prop will ever be a Man of The Series (except for Gethin Jenkins in the 6 Nations 2005)

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:46 pm

Anyway, the thread is about Sam Warburton being skipper

Does anyone have any really sound options for the Captaincy and why?

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 5:48 pm

You're done with england now then? Warburton hasn't yet been named has he? May not make the squad.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 6:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're done with england now then? Warburton hasn't yet been named has he? May not make the squad.

God you're slow

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 6:14 pm

So no then.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 8:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So no then.

no, yes

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Taylorman on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 9:40 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though

Read's form has dipped a lot since '03 thought hasnt it? Is he still guaranteed to start if fit?

I assume Beauden Barrett wouldnt start in the Hurricanes v Lions game?

We'll have to see how he goes once he's back in Super Rugby.

Who covers for him is a question being asked at home though
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/91014887/super-rugbys-burning-questions-how-the-competition-rates-how-to-fix-the-format-and-nzs-best-player

Only the Crusaders and Blues will have full access to their ABs. The other three franchises do not so no Barrett won't play.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 9:48 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though

Read's form has dipped a lot since '03 thought hasnt it? Is he still guaranteed to start if fit?

I assume Beauden Barrett wouldnt start in the Hurricanes v Lions game?

We'll have to see how he goes once he's back in Super Rugby.

Who covers for him is a question being asked at home though
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/91014887/super-rugbys-burning-questions-how-the-competition-rates-how-to-fix-the-format-and-nzs-best-player

Only the Crusaders and Blues will have full access to their ABs. The other three franchises do not so no Barrett won't play.

 Jordie might.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Taylorman on Sat 01 Apr 2017, 10:09 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder who NZ captain will be. Good chance that Read will be injured so assume Ardie Savea or Liam Squire will start in his place.

Anyone else think its stupid that there is a Hurricanes match sandwiched in between the 3 tests? Spam. Some of the fixtures are really pointless.

Read is back playing amateur club rugby this weekend, and should be back for the Crusaders next week. Squires* is probably 1st choice backup - Ardie Savea will be bench finisher after Cane's done the hard yards. Cane or Whitelock would likely get the captaincy



*Though he's a fair step down from Read. Whetu Douglas is probably too much of a bolter though

Read's form has dipped a lot since '03 thought hasnt it? Is he still guaranteed to start if fit?

I assume Beauden Barrett wouldnt start in the Hurricanes v Lions game?

We'll have to see how he goes once he's back in Super Rugby.

Who covers for him is a question being asked at home though
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/91014887/super-rugbys-burning-questions-how-the-competition-rates-how-to-fix-the-format-and-nzs-best-player

Only the Crusaders and Blues will have full access to their ABs. The other three franchises do not so no Barrett won't play.

 Jordie might.

Yeah bit too soon for the ABs. Think Reiko has an outside chance of the squad Laurie? Pretty sure Akiras done his chips for any chance of the Lions as he's not settled into a solid all round game in one position, though I thought he was good last night.

Once again Hansen has a good six or seven new players capable of pushing their name forward for the outer squad.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by robbo277 on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 5:12 pm

I had Farrell as an outside bet, guaranteed starter and lead his club and England as a vice captain. The only thing he doesn't have is leading England as captain, but there are question marks over each other captaincy contender.

I think Warburton was the clear choice in 2013, but now there is no outstanding candidate. Its just as likely to be Warburton again as much as anyone else though in my opinion.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 5:25 pm

I do not know who will be Captain for the Lions. 

But in all honesty i do not think it will be Warburton. Since they took the Captaincy arm band off him he as been playing out of his skull. I simply cannot believe they will want him to play any less for the Lions. So no, i do not think Warburton will be Captain.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by SecretFly on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 5:46 pm

Look, what is a Captain's role really? Let's forget the lovely dovey stuff about unifying players etc, etc. Let's forget the rousting Shakespearean speeches pre-game. Any players can do both things and don't need to be Captains to do them.

So what does a Captain really do and what will his most important role be in New Zealand? Well, he's the only player officially allowed to converse in a meaningful way with the refs - and he's the player (in cahoots with one or two players that he trusts) that decides the methodology of the game on the run - i.e. when to take points, when to go for corners, when to go for another scrum etc.

So which player in contention for Captain has the right instincts in an ever changing high intensity game to keep making the right decisions and to keep chatting in the right way to the ref?

That's really all a Captain is needed for. So... in my view, a "let's take the points" pragmatic, refined Captain can go f**k himself! Wink I'd want a raw, dashing and daring one that wants to have a big controlled (not rabid) f**king fight for each of the three tests. POM it is. Cool

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:40 pm

Who it won't be

Hartley: May not even tour, NZ will get stuck into I'm if he does and his character is such that he could easily be provoked
AWJ: Likewise might not tour, but if fit he will as an ex winning Lions skipper (those that think otherwise insane biased in my view) not first choice at lock.
Farrell: I reckon it will be a forward and though i think he could do it he hasn't lead his country yet. He is an exception player who leads the way i admire; from the front by example and no Biggaring about.
Best: Really. An average 6 Nations, possibly may lose out to Owens or George as tests starter
Sexton: Poor guy will have enough on his plate as clear starter at 10. Though he is one guy who has the cohones to carry it off i think you need a skipper in the pack.
Itoje: Shocked That its even suggested makes it ridiculous and as Eddie says, nowhere near it yet.

I really can't see any other candidate, so desperate as some are to dismiss him out of hand, for me Warburton becomes skipper perhaps by default. Leads by example; he has had an exceptional 6 Nations and thrived without it, making it clear he can start at 6 or 7 and therefore doubling his utility. He will start the tests if fit, that simple. Has a proven relationship with Gatland, is a winning lions skipper, perhaps only Tipuric can touch him as a fetcher and we will need one. Arguments against him due to having been relieved by Wales are nonsense; the lions tour is an entirely different animal.

I've heard the detractors and nay sayers but no one - especially majestic - has given an alternative argument that holds water, no surprises there.


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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 6:42 pm

POM it is. 


Ha, Ha, Ha, Yes he all ways looks like he is up for Fight.

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

Post by Gwlad on Sun 02 Apr 2017, 7:30 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:POM it is. 


Ha, Ha, Ha, Yes he all ways looks like he is up for Fight.

Can just imagine you dribbling into your cornflakes in your 2 up 2 down desperately praying for anyone but Warburton Rolling Eyes

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Re: This week's Lion's subject. The smart money on the Captaincy.

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