Ireland Summer tour.

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Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Maine man on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

So now we know who's off with the Lions, who you like to see tour with Ireland? I was hoping that some of the regular wingers would have went as I'd like to see Byrne and the young Munster winger get a crack this summer. Fingers crossed they still will. My starting XV this summer would be:
Healy, Cronin, Ryan, O'Connor, Ryan, Conan, Van der Flier, Heaslip, Marmion, Jackson, Sweetnam (sp), Olding, Ringrose, Byrne, O'Halloran.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 8:06 am

Great win this morning. Leavy and Conan are establishing themselves as the undisputed future 7/8 combination for Ireland, injury permitting. They combine extremely well and have very few weaknesses in their game.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by carpet baboon on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 8:26 am

Leavy looking for better than VDF?
Think a leavy at 6 Conan and VDF back row could be quite a thing of beauty

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 9:04 am

carpet baboon wrote:Leavy looking for better than VDF?
Think a leavy at 6 Conan and VDF back row could be quite a thing of beauty

Others on here (profitus I think was one) told me that Leavy was a better player than van der Flier but injury problems had hampered his progress. Now that he is fully fit, I think that I agree. While van der Flier is an excellent player with a huge work rate, Leavy could be a world class player. Similar story with Conan. I also think now that we have depth we have no need to move players out of position.

Obviously the likes of van der Flier, O'Donoghue etc pose a threat, but I'm not sure they're as good. The competition is great though.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by marty2086 on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

I think there are very few positives to take from this tour so far, some new combinations and caps tried out and a bit more variety in attack but overall the US and Japan haven't offered much and when they do click Ireland look vulnerable, maybe doesn't help having your defence coach elsewhere but still not great

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

With so much inexperience in the side I think this tour has been very positive. The USA made so many mistakes that outing wasn't as good a learning experience as Japan. Key players now have a taste of what it's like to play in the heat and the country.
New caps have come into winning sides so that is good for their confidence. Joe will have been able to compare some options for his long term RWC squad so all good.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by profitius on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 1:40 pm

It was a good win although they stopped playing in the second half. Japan were bad though and coughed up some soft scores.


Rory_Gallagher wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Leavy looking for better than VDF?
Think a leavy at 6 Conan and VDF back row could be quite a thing of beauty

Others on here (profitus I think was one) told me that Leavy was a better player than van der Flier but injury problems had hampered his progress. Now that he is fully fit, I think that I agree. While van der Flier is an excellent player with a huge work rate, Leavy could be a world class player. Similar story with Conan. I also think now that we have depth we have no need to move players out of position.

Obviously the likes of van der Flier, O'Donoghue etc pose a threat, but I'm not sure they're as good. The competition is great though.


Yeah I've always been a Leavy fan. VDF is still a good international player but as you say, Leavy could be world class. Conan coming on a lot too and I like the way he is always looking for support and keep the ball alive.
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by profitius on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 1:46 pm

Final match lineup.

15. Alan Tynan (Young Munster/ Munster)
14. Michael Silvester (Dublin University/Leinster)
13. Gavin Mullin (UCD/Leinster)
12. David McCarthy (Garryowen/Munster)
11. Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster)
10. Conor Dean (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Jack Stafford (Shannon/Munster)
1. Jordan Duggan (Naas/Leinster)
2. Ronan Kelleher (UCD/Leinster)
3. Charlie Connolly (Dublin University/Leinster)
4. Fineen Wycherley (Young Munster/ Munster)
5. Oisin Dowling (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6. John Foley (Shannon/Munster)
7. Paul Boyle (Lansdowne/Leinster) (capt)
8. Caelan Doris (St. Mary's College/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. Adam Moloney (Shannon/Munster)
17. Joey Conway (UL Bohemians/Munster)
18. Greg McGrath (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19. Jack Regan (UCD/Leinster)
20. Gavin Coombes (Young Munster/Munster)
21. Jonny Stewart (Queen's University/Ulster)
22. Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster)
23. Mark Keane (Instonians/Ulster)
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by marty2086 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 9:52 am

IRELAND v Japan - Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo, Japan:
15. Andrew Conway (Munster) 2 caps
14. Keith Earls (Munster) 61 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster) 10 caps
12. Luke Marshall (Ulster) 10 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster) 1 cap
10. Paddy Jackson (Ulster) 24 caps
9. Kieran Marmion (Connacht) 15 caps
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf) 69 caps
2. James Tracy (Leinster) 3 caps
3. John Ryan (Munster) 8 caps
4. Kieran Treadwell (Ulster) 1 cap
5. Devin Toner (Leinster) 49 caps
6. Rhys Ruddock (Leinster, captain) 15 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster) 8 caps
8. Jack Conan (Leinster) 3 caps

Replacements:
16. Niall Scannell (Munster) 6 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster) 19 caps
18. Andrew Porter (Leinster) 1 cap
19. James Ryan (Leinster) 1 cap
20. Sean Reidy (Ulster) 1 cap
21. John Cooney (Ulster) uncapped
22. Rory Scannell (Munster) 2 caps
23. Tiernan O'Halloran (Connacht) 5 caps

Good to see plenty of rotation in the squad, would have preferred to see McGrath get another start at 9 though

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 10:00 am

Marshall and ringrose both have 10 caps? That suprised me.


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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Golden on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

06:40 Irish time? Not looking forward to this RWC all of a sudden.....

Any reason why Healy is listed as a Clontarf player? Everyone else is given their province


Last edited by Golden on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:08 am

McGrath isn't playing because he picked up a knock.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:50 am

Golden wrote:06:40 Irish time? Not looking forward to this RWC all of a sudden.....

Any reason why Healy is listed as a Clontarf player? Everyone else is given their province

You will just have to travel to Japan for it in that case. Well worth it IMO.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by marty2086 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:McGrath isn't playing because he picked up a knock.

I thought I read yesterday he was fit for the game

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by wolfball on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 12:09 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Golden wrote:06:40 Irish time? Not looking forward to this RWC all of a sudden.....

Any reason why Healy is listed as a Clontarf player? Everyone else is given their province

You will just have to travel to Japan for it in that case. Well worth it IMO.

Yeah, I am going to go, never been to a RWC and getting to see Japan is a great two birds/1 stone scenario.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:McGrath isn't playing because he picked up a knock.

I thought I read yesterday he was fit for the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mg3wfkwAuQ

Apparently he is reasonably fit (as with Leavy) but it is "precautionary".

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Golden on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 1:07 pm

wolfball wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Golden wrote:06:40 Irish time? Not looking forward to this RWC all of a sudden.....

Any reason why Healy is listed as a Clontarf player? Everyone else is given their province

You will just have to travel to Japan for it in that case. Well worth it IMO.

Yeah, I am going to go, never been to a RWC and getting to see Japan is a great two birds/1 stone scenario.

I am planning on going too, just have to rope a few mates into it. Most of who would only have casual interest in the game.....

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Sin é on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 2:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:IRELAND v Japan - Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo, Japan:
15. Andrew Conway (Munster) 2 caps
14. Keith Earls (Munster) 61 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster) 10 caps
12. Luke Marshall (Ulster) 10 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster) 1 cap
10. Paddy Jackson (Ulster) 24 caps
9. Kieran Marmion (Connacht) 15 caps
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf) 69 caps
2. James Tracy (Leinster) 3 caps
3. John Ryan (Munster) 8 caps
4. Kieran Treadwell (Ulster) 1 cap
5. Devin Toner (Leinster) 49 caps
6. Rhys Ruddock (Leinster, captain) 15 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster) 8 caps
8. Jack Conan (Leinster) 3 caps

Replacements:
16. Niall Scannell (Munster) 6 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster) 19 caps
18. Andrew Porter (Leinster) 1 cap
19. James Ryan (Leinster) 1 cap
20. Sean Reidy (Ulster) 1 cap
21. John Cooney (Ulster) uncapped
22. Rory Scannell (Munster) 2 caps
23. Tiernan O'Halloran (Connacht) 5 caps

Good to see plenty of rotation in the squad, would have preferred to see McGrath get another start at 9 though

Rotation my arse. David Kilcoyne didn't get to start a game while 69 caps Healy gets to start them all.
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 2:56 pm

Poor Munster.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by marty2086 on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 3:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:IRELAND v Japan - Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo, Japan:
15. Andrew Conway (Munster) 2 caps
14. Keith Earls (Munster) 61 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster) 10 caps
12. Luke Marshall (Ulster) 10 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster) 1 cap
10. Paddy Jackson (Ulster) 24 caps
9. Kieran Marmion (Connacht) 15 caps
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf) 69 caps
2. James Tracy (Leinster) 3 caps
3. John Ryan (Munster) 8 caps
4. Kieran Treadwell (Ulster) 1 cap
5. Devin Toner (Leinster) 49 caps
6. Rhys Ruddock (Leinster, captain) 15 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster) 8 caps
8. Jack Conan (Leinster) 3 caps

Replacements:
16. Niall Scannell (Munster) 6 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster) 19 caps
18. Andrew Porter (Leinster) 1 cap
19. James Ryan (Leinster) 1 cap
20. Sean Reidy (Ulster) 1 cap
21. John Cooney (Ulster) uncapped
22. Rory Scannell (Munster) 2 caps
23. Tiernan O'Halloran (Connacht) 5 caps

Good to see plenty of rotation in the squad, would have preferred to see McGrath get another start at 9 though

Rotation my arse. David Kilcoyne didn't get to start a game while 69 caps Healy gets to start them all.

Neither did Scannell, Cooney, Reidy, Ryan or Porter, Bealham will get all of 15 mins this tour. So Im not sure what your bitching is about, most players have gotten game time over the 3 games

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Sin é on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 5:02 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Poor Munster.

Whats the point if he is only there to hold tackle bags for Healy. Since he would be scrummaging against John Ryan who he trains with week in week out, he isn't going to learn a whole lot there.

Healy has about 70 caps - does he really have to start against Japan x 2 and USA x 1?
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 5:19 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Poor Munster.

I almost spilt my coffee. This was rather hilarious.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by profitius on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

Decent team. He could have rotated more but it allows some continuity anyway. Good to see Porter, Treadwell, Stockdale and Ryan get any go.


profitius wrote:Final match lineup.

15. Alan Tynan (Young Munster/ Munster)
14. Michael Silvester (Dublin University/Leinster)
13. Gavin Mullin (UCD/Leinster)
12. David McCarthy (Garryowen/Munster)
11. Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster)
10. Conor Dean (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Jack Stafford (Shannon/Munster)
1. Jordan Duggan (Naas/Leinster)
2. Ronan Kelleher (UCD/Leinster)
3. Charlie Connolly (Dublin University/Leinster)
4. Fineen Wycherley (Young Munster/ Munster)
5. Oisin Dowling (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6. John Foley (Shannon/Munster)
7. Paul Boyle (Lansdowne/Leinster) (capt)
8. Caelan Doris (St. Mary's College/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. Adam Moloney (Shannon/Munster)
17. Joey Conway (UL Bohemians/Munster)
18. Greg McGrath (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19. Jack Regan (UCD/Leinster)
20. Gavin Coombes (Young Munster/Munster)
21. Jonny Stewart (Queen's University/Ulster)
22. Ciaran Frawley (UCD/Leinster)
23. Mark Keane (Instonians/Ulster)


Just noticed that I used the wrong thread. Doh
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 10:02 pm

No you didn't. Sine was just complaining about the under-representation that Munster have to put up with!

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by wolfball on Fri 23 Jun 2017, 8:49 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:No you didn't. Sine  was just complaining about the under-representation that Munster have to put up with!

I mean when they are losing out to Clontarf he definitely has a point Whistle

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by carpet baboon Today at 12:16 pm

Not seen all of either game. Who of the young lot impressed?

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by profitius Today at 12:44 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Not seen all of either game. Who of the young lot impressed?

James Ryan didn't get long on the pitch but he really stood out. More than justified the hype and I reckon will be first choice for Ireland by the time the world cup comes around.

Other young/new/inexperienced players to have a good series were
Niall Scannell, he is looking like a top class hooker now.
Leavy, will challenge the first team soon enough.
Conan, was excellent.
McGrath, you can see he has worked hard on his passing and kicking.
Stockdale, took his try well.
Porter, did well for someone learning how to play tighthead.
John Ryan, looks cemented as 2nd choice tightheads now.
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by marty2086 Today at 12:46 pm

Don't think there was anyone who you can say they really put their hands up, the opposition wasn't what was expected though Ryan for having never played for Leinster did look assured and one to watch

Ringrose I thought was subdued, can be expected given it's his first full season. Hopefully a well earned break to be fresh for the new season

Conan and Earls were probably the two who looked dangerous throughout the games, Jackson showed touches of class on Saturday

Think the pay off will be what they take away from it and use to develop more than what was shown over the 3 games

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher Today at 1:10 pm

I think the player of the series was a tie between Earls and Conan. I've been saying for a while that Conan is a better player than Heaslip despite what Jamie's biggest fans say. His all around game is excellent and he is possibly the best ball carrier in Irish rugby. To my mind, he and Leavy are going to be the future 8 and 7 for Ireland respectively, and possibly sooner rather than later.

The back row competition is insane. Jordi Murphy is yet to return (a Schmidt favourite) so I have no idea who will miss out. Conan and Leavy have made themselves undroppable at the moment. So who misses out?

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher Today at 1:15 pm

I thought that Ringrose was excellent. His defence is very good, well beyond his years in a position like 13, and he took his attacking opportunities well, which were scarce. In general Ireland are poor at creating space for the wider channels. The 13 and back three have to work very hard to create the space themselves. Against a weaker opposition, Earls really got a chance to shine in this regard. Just think what he could do with some more width?

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by profitius Today at 2:00 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote: In general Ireland are poor at creating space for the wider channels. The 13 and back three have to work very hard to create the space themselves. Against a weaker opposition, Earls really got a chance to shine in this regard. Just think what he could do with some more width?


The game at the weekend was depressing in that regard. It's clear at this stage that Schmidt has no intention of changing from his risk free strategy even though the players are there to play a more expansive game plan.
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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by wolfball Today at 4:50 pm

profitius wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote: In general Ireland are poor at creating space for the wider channels. The 13 and back three have to work very hard to create the space themselves. Against a weaker opposition, Earls really got a chance to shine in this regard. Just think what he could do with some more width?


The game at the weekend was depressing in that regard. It's clear at this stage that Schmidt has no intention of changing from his risk-free strategy even though the players are there to play a more expansive game plan.

We scored 140 points over 3 games. We ran nearly everything, offloaded out of contact more than I have ever seen an Irish team do. Now, our forwards do not work off the 13 channel like NZ do but other than that, please clarify with specifics what a more expansive game plan looks like?

In my mind there were three aims going into the tour:

1. Find ready replacements for 8, 9 and Back three - Conan, Marmion, and McGrath all played either fantastic or very well. Back 3 is still a concern for me as by far the best player was Earls who already has a place. In general positive return.
2. Carberry as 3rd choice FH - only played 1, multiple knockdowns. He needs alot more Leinster time at 10 before he can be trusted there for Ireland.
3. Show a dynamic offloading game. Despite poor opposition 47 points a match is a good return and more tries came from offloads than I've seen in an irish team before.
4. Get a sense of what RWC in Japan will be like - feedback from the irish camp was that while there were problems (traffic on match days etc) they have a much better idea of what to expect.

Overall 1,3,4 were successful, 2 was a failure. Other positives like Ryan, Scannell and Leavy are great to see and I expect at least 2 of those to be on the plane in 2019.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

Post by Rory_Gallagher Today at 7:26 pm

Offloading has nothing to do with width. It also has a lot to do with the individual skills of some of the players (in particular, Conan and Leavy in the pack). We rely on one out runners breaking tackles, if that doesn't work we kick the ball. The point is that we don't create much width and rarely create overlaps.

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Re: Ireland Summer tour.

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