Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

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Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:09 am

V



When:
Saturday 22nd April - 15:15

Where:
Aviva stadium, Lansdowne Rd, Dublin 4, Ireland




TV:
BT Sport / beIN Sports / Sky Italia

Officials:
Referee - Romain Poite (France)
Touch Judge 1 - Pascal Gauzere (France)
Touch Judge 2 - Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO - Philippe Bonhoure (France)
Citing Commissioner - Jeff Mark (Wales)


Previous Meetings:
17/1/15 Saracens 33 - 10 Munster Rugby
24/10/14 Munster Rugby 14 - 3 Saracens
16/12/12 Saracens 19 - 13 Munster Rugby




MUNSTER



ERC Form: Played 7, Won 6, Lost 1
Pro12 Form: Played 20, Won 17, Lost 3

Lineup:

15 Simon Zebo
14 Andrew Conway
13 Jaco Taute
12 Rory Scannell
11 Keith Earls
10 Tyler Bleyendaal
9 Duncan Williams
1 Dave Kilcoyne
2 Niall Scannell
3 John Ryan
4 Donnacha Ryan
5 Billy Holland
6 Peter O'Mahony (capt)
7 Tommy O'Donnell
8 CJ Stander

16 Rhys Marshall
17 James Cronin
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave O'Callaghan
20 Jean Deysel
21 Ian Keatley
22 Francis Saili
23 Darren Sweetnam


Saracens



ERC Form: Played 7, Won 6, Drawn 1
AP Form: Played 20, Won 15, Drawn 1, Lost 4

Lineup:

15 Alex Goode (226)
14 Chris Ashton (114)
13 Marcelo Bosch (93)
12 Brad Barritt (c) (193)
11 Sean Maitland (19)
10 Owen Farrell (148)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (182)

1 Mako Vunipola (116)
2 Jamie George (168)
3 Vincent Koch (11)
4 Maro Itoje (71)
5 George Kruis (132)
6 Michael Rhodes (53)
7 Jackson Wray (169)
8 Billy Vunipola (74)

16 Schalk Brits (198)
17 Titi Lamositele (42)
18 Petrus Du Plessis (154)
19 Jim Hamilton (71)
20 Schalk Burger (21)
21 Ben Spencer (97)
22 Alex Lozowski (27)
23 Chris Wyles (222)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 11:40 am

This is gonna be a terrific match, can't wait.

Saracens look invincible in Europe, but Munster have looked extremely strong and have a "home advantage"

Can't even begin to call this.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 12:47 pm

Hopefully there are no injuries nor citings for Lions.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 12:49 pm

Saracens have been gearing up for this one.

Expected team:

1.Vunipola
2.George
3.Du Plessis
4.Kruis
5.Itoje
6.Rhodes
7.Burger
8.Vunipola

9.Wigglesworth
10.Farrell
11.Maitland
12.Barritt
13.Bosch
14.Ashton
15.Goode

16.Lamisotele
17.Brits
18.Koch
19.Hamilton (if injured then Brown)
20.Wray
21.Spencer
22.Lozowski
23.Earle


Not a bad pack....

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 12:56 pm

I think Munster will win. It seems to me Sarries base their game plan around fairly brutal blitz defence, wear their opponent down then hit them on the counter with some fairly fast backs. I think Munster will have the steady game plan to chip away at the scoreboard and stay one score ahead until the whistle in a fairly dull forward dominated semi. I think Munster will look to dominate territory and possession and have the pack to do so. Tyler Bleyendaal will need to have a good day with the boot.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:15 pm

I felt good for Munster a while back...now...... hmmmm.

I hope they beat the bejaysus out of another high-flying non-beatable side but there is bound to be a lot of emotions circling now in the aftermath of the Lions selection.  If they keep it all business-like, and keep to rehearsed plans, they'll have a shot.  If they let other events beyond their control still niggle then concentration levels might wander at the wrong times.

Munster will have to be at their best obviously.  I hope they click in a big way and wish them well.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:17 pm

Nah I think Munster are better than Sarries. Sarries are a bit of a one trick pony.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:19 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sarries are a bit of a one trick pony.
Laugh I think you might be the one-trick pony with this tired line, guns

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

Saracens have a number of ways they can play. There is of course the standard perception of defend like mad, then counter attack. But this is not their only option.

They can play the territory game very well. Wigglesworth is an excellent kicker from the base of setpiece and breakdown, and Farrell and Goode have also developed into fine tactical kickers. Barritt is a very under-rated but effective tactical kicker. Then with Farrell looking to add points from the tee, they can easily build up a lead. This would of course then play into the hands of their stereo-type as opponents are forced to chase the game and open up the chance of a counter.

Then we have the Sarries we saw against Glasgow. Here they went out all guns blazing, hitting the visitors with wave after wave of multi-phase, multi-directional attacks. They were far from a defensive counter attacking team that day.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:24 pm

English sides hate playing at Lansdowne road. It will be too much for them. Chris Splashton has never scored against Ireland for example. Maro the feminist's one loss has com in Dublin. Half the squad is from South Africa and everyone knows South Africans hate coming to Dublin. I know its only Munster but they will be too much for them.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:25 pm

I think someone is risking the jinx of Death on Munster... Whistle

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 1:51 pm

I believe it's a game too far for this team. It will be close but unfortunately I think Saracens will just strangle us. Kleijne missing along with Murray reduces our physicality just enough to make this a game beyond our reach

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:37 pm

gunsgermsv2 bold statement to say Munster have the pack to dominate one of the strongest packs in this competition.

Though saying that both Munster and Ireland have shown the ability to make England and Saracens struggle to build momentum - effectively turning the match into a tiresome affair.


Chris Ashton might have not scored against Ireland but he has vs Irish regions like Ulster and Munster.

Saracens will need to make sure they control the lineout better than England did vs Ireland, having Kruis in the team to support Itoje and George should help.

Goode will need to much sharper under the high ball as I expect Munster to pepper the back three.

Also the breakdown will be a key battleground, like any side, Saracens thrive off good ball and breaking the gain line.

Saracens must find a way to break the stubborn Munster defence.




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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:46 pm

Ashton has never splashed down in the Aviva. It aint happening. Munster wouldnt disrespect the oldest international rugby pitch in the world by letting that happen.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Scottrf on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:49 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ashton has never splashed down in the Aviva. It aint happening. Munster wouldnt disrespect the oldest international rugby pitch in the world by letting that happen.

Actually has about 70 tries in the Aviva. Cool
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 2:56 pm

Well I certainly don't want Ashton doing a Le Roux....

I think Ashton is certainly capable of scoring a try. He's also on a good run of try scoring.

2 vs Bath
2 vs Glasgow
1 vs Quins
1 vs Saints

6 in 4 games. Against Saints he was only on for like 20 minutes at most, sure it was a walk in but they all count.

Unlikely to see the splash, if Saracens do win, I don't think it will be by many. When it's close Ashton doesn't generally splash.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:03 pm

Scottrf wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ashton has never splashed down in the Aviva. It aint happening. Munster wouldnt disrespect the oldest international rugby pitch in the world by letting that happen.

Actually has about 70 tries in the Aviva. Cool

Ha not the one that counts though Wink

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:03 pm

Is the pitch at the Aviva rugby's equivalent of Trigger's broom?

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:06 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Is the pitch at the Aviva rugby's equivalent of Trigger's broom?

Shocked

Tiger getting all philosophical.................

It's only a game, Tiger.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:12 pm

beshocked wrote:
Unlikely to see the splash, if Saracens do win, I don't think it will be by many. When it's close Ashton doesn't generally splash.

England winning by just 6pts when he splashed in 2012 v NZ.


And a few close ones when he splashes on this video, most notably when 3-0 down to Ulster adter quarter of teh game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJfx3O1Pi6g


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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Scottrf on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:19 pm

I think it's more to do with how close players are to him than how close the score is.

We need graphs.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:25 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Unlikely to see the splash, if Saracens do win, I don't think it will be by many. When it's close Ashton doesn't generally splash.

England winning by just 6pts when he splashed in 2012 v NZ.


And a few close ones when he splashes on this video, most notably when 3-0 down to Ulster adter quarter of teh game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJfx3O1Pi6g


Sure there are exceptions but even in those cases, the try vs NZ made it 13 point lead and Saracens had an extra man vs Ulster (sure they struggled to put away Ulster despite the extra man but still won).

I don't really want Ashton to splash vs Munster though, just get the ball down if he does get some try scoring opportunities.

The Le Roux incident should act as a warning. Le Roux's action wasn't as extravagant as Ashton but still got himself into trouble.

Personally I think it cost Wasps dearly.

Remember Toulon blowing a try vs Saracens in the pool stages.

Teams need to take chances like this.

Saracens have generally been more clinical than their opposition, making the most out of the opportunities that present themselves.

I think Munster will be a bigger challenge because I don't think the defence is as porous as others and the mistakes are less likely to come.


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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Scottrf on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:27 pm

I love that you think he was considering the effect of a sin bin when he splashed...

The best fail was still Farrell celebrating and dropping the ball past the try line.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:37 pm

Scottrf well yes, I do think generally Ashton splashes when the odds are in his favour. Would be bad for him if he did the splash and ended up on the losing side.

Yes Farrell dropping the ball past the try line was amusing, shows it can happen to anyone. Also acts as a warning. Still won that game.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Scottrf on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 3:40 pm

I think he splashes when it's safe to do so, rather than weighing up the scoreline, the flow of the game and any sin bins.

He didn't splash against Saints because it was a congested try on the wing, not because it was a close game.

Anyway, bit off topic. I think I fancy Munster at home and am quite annoyed it clashes with Saints.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 4:54 pm

Right. Munster. Listen up.
I want you to win.
Please beat the crap out of them while your at it.
And if you can smash that daft winger into next month that would grand.

All the best

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 4:56 pm

Ah Splash, ain't all bad...He's a lighter version of Hartley - a naughty lad but not a bad lad.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Cyril on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:23 am

carpet baboon wrote:And if you can smash that daft winger into next month that would grand.
Earls or Zebo? Both are pretty difficult to like.

Ashton should save his Splash for his hat-trick try.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by IanBru on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:30 am

The girlfriend is running the marathon on Sunday, and so can anyone recommend a good pub in London to watch this match? Maybe somewhere in South Kensington or Covent Garden (literally the two parts of London I know quite well!), but anywhere is good really.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:42 am

Could go to Philomena's in Covent Garden.

https://www.matchpint.co.uk/view-games-philomenas-irish-sports-bar-kitchen-1406

There's generally quite a few pubs in Covent Garden.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:03 pm

Murray Kinsella analysis of Saracens.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-saracens-munster-rugby-league-3349329-Apr2017/
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:09 pm

Saracens team to face Munster

15 Alex Goode (226)

14 Chris Ashton (114)

13 Marcelo Bosch (93)

12 Brad Barritt (c) (193)

11 Sean Maitland (19)

10 Owen Farrell (148)

9 Richard Wigglesworth (182)

1 Mako Vunipola (116)

2 Jamie George (168)

3 Vincent Koch (11)

4 Maro Itoje (71)

5 George Kruis (132)

6 Michael Rhodes (53)

7 Jackson Wray (169)

8 Billy Vunipola (74)

REPLACEMENTS

16 Schalk Brits (198)

17 Titi Lamositele (42)

18 Petrus Du Plessis (154)

19 Jim Hamilton (71)

20 Schalk Burger (21)

21 Ben Spencer (97)

22 Alex Lozowski (27)

23 Chris Wyles (222)

- See more at: http://www.saracens.com/news-article/saracens-name-team-for-munster-semi-final#sthash.xRbX5LyS.dpuf

Got it slightly wrong. Didn't know Wyles was fit. Surprised Wray is starting ahead of Burger but Wray is a bit of an unsung player.

Worried about the breakdown though.


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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:14 pm

OP updated with teams.

Who will provide Scrum Half cover for Munster?

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:15 pm

Munster:
15 Simon Zebo;
14 Andrew Conway,
13 Jaco Taute,
12 Rory Scannell,
11 Keith Earls;
10 Tyler Bleyendaal,
9 Duncan Williams;
1 Dave Kilcoyne,
2 Niall Scannell,
3 John Ryan;
4 Donnacha Ryan,
5 Billy Holland;
6 Peter O’Mahony (Capt.),
7 Tommy O’Donnell,
8 CJ Stander.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Dave O’Callaghan, Jean Deysel, Ian Keatley, Francis Saili, Darren Sweetnam.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:19 pm

LondonTiger wrote:OP updated with teams.

Who will provide Scrum Half cover for Munster?

Thanks.

Keatly I suppose. Munster A is also playing in the B&I Cup Final tonight in Cork v Jersey Reds.

MUNSTER A: Stephen Fitzgerald; Dan Goggin, Sam Arnold, Cian Bohane (Capt), Alex Wootton; David Johnston, John Poland; Peter McCabe, Kevin O’Byrne, Brian Scott; John Madigan, Darren O’Shea; Gavin Coombes, Conor Oliver, Robin Copeland. Replacements: Duncan Casey, Liam O’Connor, Rory Burke, Mark Chisholm, Sean O’Connor, Abrie Griesel, Greg O’Shea.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:21 pm

Who would you say are the Munster danger men aside from the obvious picks?

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:27 pm

beshocked wrote:Who would you say are the Munster danger men aside from the obvious picks?

Don't really have any outstanding players I suppose with Murray missing. Munster has a great backrow, though Tommy O'Donnell has dropped off a bit lately. Munster have a very good defence - all the backs are playing very well this season.

2nd Row is probably Munster's weakest position.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 12:39 pm

Munster are definitely a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. As said above the back row is strong and will make the breakdown interesting.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 1:02 pm

Sin é wrote:
beshocked wrote:Who would you say are the Munster danger men aside from the obvious picks?

Don't really have any outstanding players I suppose with Murray missing. Munster has a great backrow, though Tommy O'Donnell has dropped off a bit lately. Munster have a very good defence - all the backs are playing very well this season.

2nd Row is probably Munster's weakest position.

Yes and no concerning the 2nd row. Would prefer Holland coming on with 30 mins to go when the game breaks up a bit. However both DOCv2 and Deysel are good options.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 1:19 pm

Billy won't let anyone down - he has been having a superb season. Its just one area that we always had world class players in and now its just about average.

Dying to see how Itoje and POM have another go at each other!
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

Sin é wrote:Billy won't let anyone down - he has been having a superb season. Its just one area that we always had world class players in and now its just about average.

Dying to see how Itoje and POM have another go at each other!

If it's hard then the Welsh might have two more places to New Zealand.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 1:55 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:Billy won't let anyone down - he has been having a superb season. Its just one area that we always had world class players in and now its just about average.

Dying to see how Itoje and POM have another go at each other!

If it's hard then the Welsh might have two more places to New Zealand.

Rumour has it Conor Murray needs shoulder surgery. So that's Mike Phillips in Wink
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:10 pm

Nah, Murray passes better than Phillips even with both arms in a sling.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Scottrf on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:11 pm

Quicker waiting for him to recover from surgery than for Phillips to complete a pass.
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:12 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:Billy won't let anyone down - he has been having a superb season. Its just one area that we always had world class players in and now its just about average.

Dying to see how Itoje and POM have another go at each other!

If it's hard then the Welsh might have two more places to New Zealand.

Rumour has it Conor Murray needs shoulder surgery. So that's Mike Phillips in Wink

He'll need a game to prove fitness. Online poker should do it as long as he films it.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Sin é on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:13 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:Billy won't let anyone down - he has been having a superb season. Its just one area that we always had world class players in and now its just about average.

Dying to see how Itoje and POM have another go at each other!

If it's hard then the Welsh might have two more places to New Zealand.

Rumour has it Conor Murray needs shoulder surgery. So that's Mike Phillips in Wink

He is ready Very Happy
https://twitter.com/mikephillips009/status/854644950113419264
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:28 pm

Very happy that Munster have made it so far but this game will be a bridge too far for them I fear. Sarries are just too strong and the best team in Europe. I also do not agree that Sarries are a one trick pony, they have plenty of attacking qualities and game plans.

Still..... Munster Abu
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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:Very happy that Munster have made it so far but this game will be a bridge too far for them I fear. Sarries are just too strong and the best team in Europe. I also do not agree that Sarries are a one trick pony, they have plenty of attacking qualities and game plans.

Still..... Munster Abu

You echo my thoughts too often Billy and sadly I think this is the case. However if anyone can do it against the odds in europe it's Munster. I'll be supporting wholeheartedly from Ulster. Munster Abu!!!!!!

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:41 pm

With all the gloom, I think my feelings are going up again! Munster always do something when everybody thinks they won't.

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 2:45 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Very happy that Munster have made it so far but this game will be a bridge too far for them I fear. Sarries are just too strong and the best team in Europe. I also do not agree that Sarries are a one trick pony, they have plenty of attacking qualities and game plans.

Still..... Munster Abu

You echo my thoughts too often Billy and sadly I think this is the case. However if anyone can do it against the odds in europe it's Munster. I'll be supporting wholeheartedly from Ulster. Munster Abu!!!!!!

Good man yourself there Pete thumbsup

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Re: Munster vs Saracens - European Rugby Champions Cup: Semi Final 1

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