British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

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British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 12:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scottrf wrote:Lawes was better than AWJ every week in the 6 Nations and isn't injured yet he's the strange call Rolling Eyes

AWJ is a leader and well respected by his peers as well as being a former winning Lions test captain.

Lions players aren't just based on how well they did in the six nations, they are picked on how well the coaches think they will gel into the squad.

You need leaders on and off the pitch.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:45 am

munkian wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You also can't separate mistakes and wins? Didn't think that was too challenging a concept to be honest.

This is exactly what the Kiwi fans keep saying about that Ireland game

What Ireland game? Whistle

The money spinner exhibition game in Chicago that shouldn't even have been capped Hug


That was a really good weekend break away. My liver is still recovering
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd like to see a top club coach offered it.

SL is busy.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Cyril on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:48 am

munkian wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You also can't separate mistakes and wins? Didn't think that was too challenging a concept to be honest.

This is exactly what the Kiwi fans keep saying about that Ireland game

What Ireland game? Whistle

The money spinner exhibition game in Chicago that shouldn't even have been capped Hug
Was that game capped? I always thought it was an Ireland XV vs a NZ XV or like a Barbarians game (mind you, Wales - and some others? - do cap those games).

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:57 am

Im still miffed at England choosing to cap the dead rubber at the end of the 6 nations. Its a bit of a joke really.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Cyril on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:58 am

Gooseberry wrote:Im still miffed at England choosing to cap the dead rubber at the end of the 6 nations. Its a bit of a joke really.
You've got to feel a bit sorry for Ireland though, winning all these pointless games.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:01 am

Cyril wrote:
munkian wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You also can't separate mistakes and wins? Didn't think that was too challenging a concept to be honest.

This is exactly what the Kiwi fans keep saying about that Ireland game

What Ireland game? Whistle

The money spinner exhibition game in Chicago that shouldn't even have been capped Hug
Was that game capped? I always thought it was an Ireland XV vs a NZ XV or like a Barbarians game (mind you, Wales - and some others? - do cap those games).

We never used to, until they decided they wanted to help Martyn Williams get to 100 caps. It was such a sop. There should be an asterisk next to that 100.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:02 am

So the nz winning streak is at what now if we're discounting the ireland game?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:03 am

Its devalued until they play the 6 Nation's 4th placed champions.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:04 am

munkian wrote:Its devalued until they play the 6 Nations 4th placed champions.

They have to get passed the 5th place all star team first. (With Hogg at fullback)

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:07 am

You're obsessed with Scotland munkian.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:33 am

munkian wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You also can't separate mistakes and wins? Didn't think that was too challenging a concept to be honest.

This is exactly what the Kiwi fans keep saying about that Ireland game

What Ireland game? Whistle

The money spinner exhibition game in Chicago that shouldn't even have been capped Hug

Laugh You're a hoot, munk OK

I think Gats, as official Lions Dictator/Coach, should have had final say on which International games were capped last year.  You are right on that score.  Looks like he already deducted caps from off of them poor Scots Sad ...and gave 'em to Welsh players that wot needed extra brownie points. mad

Oh that Gats!  Wot a Divil.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 11:50 am

SecretFly wrote:
munkian wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You also can't separate mistakes and wins? Didn't think that was too challenging a concept to be honest.

This is exactly what the Kiwi fans keep saying about that Ireland game

What Ireland game? Whistle

The money spinner exhibition game in Chicago that shouldn't even have been capped Hug

Laugh  You're a hoot, munk OK

I think Gats, as official Lions Dictator/Coach, should have had final say on which International games were capped last year.  You are right on that score.  Looks like he already deducted caps from off of them poor Scots Sad ...and gave 'em to Welsh players that wot needed extra brownie points. mad

Oh that Gats!  Wot a Divil.

drumroll
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:10 pm

Gatlands quote of the day!

Lets be the best at everything that doesn't require Talent. like getting off the floor quicker, chasing a kick, getting back in a defensive line.

Has he just given away our game plan?


Last edited by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:13 pm

Heard that one before.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:14 pm

Scottrf wrote:Heard that one before.

That's strange, as I've seen Gatlands game plan in action before!
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:15 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Heard that one before.

That's strange, as I've seen Gatlands game plan in action before!

They should give his plan its own name.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:17 pm

Like Warrenball or maybe even Gatlandball, for when the first tactic doesn't work!

This is what I fear most about this tour, we could use half the NZ squad but with his tactics we have little to no hope of winning a game vs NZ!
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Fluxy on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands quote of the day!

Lets be the best at everything that doesn't require Talent. like getting off the floor quicker, chasing a kick, getting back in a defensive line.

Has he just given away our game plan?

Isn't he just quoting what Paul O'Connell said to him ahead of the 2013 tour and their preparations then. I understand Gatland acknowledged as a good bit of thinking, with little prep time for a Lions squad. 
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/best-advice-warren-gatland-ever-got-gem-paul-oconnell-114503

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 3:36 pm

Nicked from Reddit forum, some backrow 6 nations stats for comparison.

Unfortunately there's no minutes played data.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:08 pm

Fluxy wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands quote of the day!

Lets be the best at everything that doesn't require Talent. like getting off the floor quicker, chasing a kick, getting back in a defensive line.

Has he just given away our game plan?

Isn't he just quoting what Paul O'Connell said to him ahead of the 2013 tour and their preparations then. I understand Gatland acknowledged as a good bit of thinking, with little prep time for a Lions squad. 
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/best-advice-warren-gatland-ever-got-gem-paul-oconnell-114503

That he is, but Mr Potato Head is still talking about it today!
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:10 pm

Interesting point raised by Owen Slot on the Times rugby podcast. Many people have Sexton and Farrell as a potential Lions 10/12 axis. If so, then they should be spending a lot of time trying to get some understanding together.

If that is the plan, and Sexton goes down injured during the tour, then Slot wonders whether we'd expect to see Biggar step in for Sexton, or Farrell move over with a new 12. Whatever happens in that instance, Farrell won't have had much opportunity training on tour with the other combinations, let alone playing.

It may just be, of course, that Gatland really doesn't see Farrell as his 12, and intends to play him primarily at 10. He said as much in the press conference but no-one really believed him.


Not everyone, mind you: I've heard other views that Sexton and Farrell will be contesting the 10 jersey.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:18 pm

munkian wrote:Nicked from Reddit forum, some backrow 6 nations stats for comparison.

Unfortunately there's no minutes played data.


And people were questioning Warburton. Muppets kiss

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:19 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're obsessed with Scotland munkian.

Scotland are obsessed with Gatland and Wales.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You're obsessed with Scotland munkian.

Scotland are obsessed with Gatland and Wales.

I wonder why? Strange days indeed. Most peculiar, momma.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:23 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
munkian wrote:Nicked from Reddit forum, some backrow 6 nations stats for comparison.

Unfortunately there's no minutes played data.


And people were questioning Warburton. Muppets kiss

Really? I thought most people were questioning Moriarty and the stats seem to justify that.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:26 pm

No they dont clearly better than Haskell and Watson

That Haskell is even in contention for some is frankly disturbing.

Its a rugby tour not a dwarf throwing knob convention.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:30 pm

Someone mentioned Wobshaw earlier too, when was his last Test match ?
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:31 pm

Gwlad Haskell wasn't fully fit during the 6 nations and was replacement in two games.

Watson wrecks Moriarty according to those stats. Of course stats don't tell you the whole story but still - beats him in turnovers made, makes more tackles, misses less, makes more metres per carry,  beat more defenders etc.

Also Watson plays in a clearly inferior team - after all Scotland have no forwards in the Lions squad.... Whistle

Wales have a very strong backrow supposedly with 4 picked in Gatland's Lions squad. OK

I should add I like Warburton and Tipuric but come on even for Welsh fans surely it must be hard to argue that Moriarty is superior to Watson.


Last edited by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:32 pm

Watson is a 7. Moriarty is not. What don't people understand about that?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:34 pm

Its OK munkian I used to think the same way about Wobshaw, but we really missed him during the 6 nations. IMHO he is underrated as a player.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:35 pm

beshocked wrote:Gwlad Haskell wasn't fully fit during the 6 nations and was replacement in two games.

Watson wrecks Moriarty according to those stats. Of course stats don't tell you the whole story but still - beats him in turnovers made, makes more tackles, misses less, makes more metres per carry,  beat more defenders etc.

Also Watson plays in a clearly inferior team - after all Scotland have no forwards in the Lions squad.... Whistle

Wales have a very strong backrow supposedly with 4 picked in Gatland's Lions squad. OK

I should add I like Warburton and Tipuric but come on even for Welsh fans surely it must be hard to argue that Moriarty is superior to Watson.


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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:35 pm

Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by munkian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:36 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Its OK munkian I used to think the same way about Wobshaw, but we really missed him during the 6 nations. IMHO he is underrated as a player.

I asked when he last played a Test, is he not on long term sick ?
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:37 pm

munkian wrote:Nicked from Reddit forum, some backrow 6 nations stats for comparison.

Unfortunately there's no minutes played data.


Link to the actual page, munk - if it's possible? I'd just like to mosey through the whole ship rather than a few highly priced cabins.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:42 pm

munkian wrote:Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.

I think he would be more effective than Moriarty.


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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:43 pm

munkian wrote:Someone mentioned Wobshaw earlier too, when was his last Test match ?

1066

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:43 pm

beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.

I think he would be more effective than Moriarty.


at what?

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:46 pm

Gwlad wrote:
beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.

I think he would be more effective than Moriarty.


at what?

Playing rugby.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by SecretFly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:47 pm

laughing

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:50 pm

beshocked wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.

I think he would be more effective than Moriarty.


at what?

Playing rugby.

When you consider Haskell's performances last summer, away from home, in the series whitewash against Australia, and you consider Gatland's preference for large, physical and experienced players, it really is odd to see Haskell omitted for Moriarty. Form is probably on Moriarty's side, but Gatland hasn't used form to dictate many other 50/50 decisions in the squad.

Still, nothing to say Gatland won't be proven right with Moriarty, he's had a fine start to his international career. It's just that his selection thinking process seems a bit muddled.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:51 pm

Moriarty's selection looks like another chance for Gatland to blood a Welsh player vs SH opposition and is not a serious Lions pick.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:53 pm

beshocked wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
beshocked wrote:
munkian wrote:Watson is a Hooper style 7 isn't he ? Do people see that working against NZ ?

Haskell should never ever be near a Lions shirt.

I think he would be more effective than Moriarty.


at what?

Playing rugby.

Hug love you Be kiss
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:54 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Moriarty's selection looks like another chance for Gatland to blood a Welsh player vs SH opposition and is not a serious Lions pick.

Moriarty toured to NZ last year and was bloody awful.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:56 pm

Don't get me wrong he has had a good season for Glaws and a bit of a showing of what he can do at international level but a Lions tour to NZ, at this stage of his career reeks of favoritism from Gatland.
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 4:59 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Don't get me wrong he has had a good season for Glaws and a bit of a showing of what he can do at international level but a Lions tour to NZ, at this stage of his career reeks of favoritism from Gatland.

I know, isn't it great!!

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 5:06 pm

Still maintain if you want to beat the All Blacks down under then you don't take a large contingent of out of form players from a nation where by only a few great grandfathers (those that are left) can only just remember beating NZ!
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 5:06 pm

Gwlad wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Don't get me wrong he has had a good season for Glaws and a bit of a showing of what he can do at international level but a Lions tour to NZ, at this stage of his career reeks of favoritism from Gatland.

I know, isn't it great!!

In truth, I actually quite rate Moriarty, and truth be told I'd probably take him. Mainly because I think he'd thrive in the horrible midweek matches.

I'd have picked POM, Watson and Moriarty for the midweek games and have Stander, Warburton and Billy V for the tests with Faletau coming off the bench. SOB or Tipuric being the casualties
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Gwlad on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 5:15 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Still maintain if you want to beat the All Blacks down under then you don't take a large contingent of out of form players from a nation where by only a few great grandfathers (those that are left) can only just remember beating NZ!

Oh i see so in addition to myopia regarding the NH's most successful coach and winning lions coach, you are biased against Welsh players too and really think we should just have taken the England squad.

This large contingent happen to be Welsh? Who exactly?

Its good to get it all of your chest.

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 5:20 pm

NH most successful coach? How many WCs? Whats his winning percentage? How many times has he beaten SH opposition?
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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 5:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You're obsessed with Scotland munkian.

Scotland are obsessed with Gatland and Wales.

I wonder why?  Strange days indeed.  Most peculiar, momma.

clap

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Re: British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

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