Political round up.............

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Post by GSC on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 11:14 am

First topic message reminder :

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Every Scottish vote counted the same as every other UK citizen. I don't see the issue.

The Scots (a good number if you look at post-ref stats from neutral sources) decided to vote no on varying issues. One of the main ones was because they feared losing their place in Europe. That won loads of votes for Better Together and has proved to be fruitless for the voters as they are now out of Europe.

The issue is that many Scots sees Scotland as its own country - sure not independent - but very close to it as they have their own government. However, when they vote by 62% to remain in Europe and end up being taken out of Europe it becomes a big issue to many. Yes we know the UK voted to exit but there are perhaps a million plus Scots who fail to recognize or accept being part of the UK or see themselves Scottish first and foremost and feel how they vote should hold more water than it does in the current union.

Sorry Craig, but that's democracy. Why should somebody in Edinburghs vote count more than someone's in London? Almost as ridiculous as Mhairi Black complaining that a region with more inhabitants had more MPs representing it than another region with less MPs.

But such is the politics of the SNP, always phrasing as Scotland vs the rest of the UK (or more accurately England) when Scotland voted to be part of the UK.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 8:43 am

Pr4wn wrote:You were using unemployment rate as a barometer of the performance of government. Clearly that's only a relevant statistic when it confirms your bias.
I used it as another pointer on top of those I have mentioned here in the past.

My thoughts on Tories are based on various things over decades of my life and that will not change as the Tory party has never changed.
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Post by superflyweight on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 10:10 am

GSC wrote:Sure.

But I'd rather see a meaningful employment statistic where you count if you have enough income from your job to support yourself.

Someone working a zero hours contract who gets maybe 8 hours a week probably isn't going to be able to do that. Do they count as employed on the current stat

People on zero hours contracts are counted. They're also counted when calculating graduate recruitment levels.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 07 Aug 2017, 8:34 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:I find unemployment figures both sides of the border to be a crock of **** generally.

What qualifies as employment.

Lower unemployment figures are what governments strive for and are certainly more desirable than high unemployment figures. And these figures just goes anothewr way to dispelling this media perpetrated myth that the SNP are in some way inferior to a Tory or Labour government in Holyrood.

So I suppose that you'd conclude that the Tories are doing a fantastic job then? Or does that not fit your predetermined narrative?

Make of it what you will but NHS Scotland is out-performing the rest of the UK's NHS so another caveat to the SNP and those rioting prisons as well - none of those in Scotland. Point is, like I have said before, the SNP are a thoroughly capable governing party. Sure they have their own agenda as do every other political party out there - I back them as their agenda resonates with me.

SNP had a 13 point lead in June 2017 with Yougov....Now they are behind Labour and only one point ahead of the Conservatives.

You have 35 mps.. You are looking at saying goodbye to 20 more of those....With Ref2 off the table...... Labour going left in a left wing country and Davidson opposing as efficiently as she does..

SNP have got much to ponder.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 4:11 pm

BMG......Con 42...Lab 39
Opin......Con 40....Lab 43

Take your pick.

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Post by Hero on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 4:24 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:BMG......Con 42...Lab 39
Opin......Con 40....Lab 43

Take your pick.

The bottom one please.

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Post by LionsV2 on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 4:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:BMG......Con 42...Lab 39
Opin......Con 40....Lab 43

Take your pick.


The top one please.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 5:23 pm

Ipsos Mori poll...

Number 1 issue for Conservative voters by a distance is Brexit..

Number 1 issue for Labour voters by a distance is the NHS.

No real surprise there...

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Post by LionsV2 on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 7:37 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-41011908

This highlights the problem with the NHS, pen pushers not having a clue.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 7:56 pm

Not sure £2,500 is the breaking point.

Problem is people not taking responsibility for their health.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 9:19 am

Scottrf wrote:Not sure £2,500 is the breaking point.

Problem is people not taking responsibility for their health.
Problem is increasing age demographic and not enough spent on NHS for the service people seem to expect. People also expect to be taken care of - after all, they've paid their dues haven't they?
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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 9:25 am

Scottrf wrote:Not sure £2,500 is the breaking point.

Problem is people not taking responsibility for their health.


It's not the money aspect of it, it's the nonsensical bureaucracy of it all.

The second point is very true, no amount of money thrown at the NHS is going to help whilst people are wasting time.

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 9:29 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Not sure £2,500 is the breaking point.

Problem is people not taking responsibility for their health.
Problem is increasing age demographic and not enough spent on NHS for the service people seem to expect. People also expect to be taken care of - after all, they've paid their dues haven't they?
Yeah but if people kept control of their weight/diet, stopped smoking, drank less and exercised the costs would probably halve. All of the top killers are heavily lifestyle related. There's a reason they renamed adult-onset diabetes etc.

And no, most people will never pay enough to cover their costs.

Yes the funding and ageing demographic are problems, but are hard to solve.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 12:28 pm

Scottrf wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Not sure £2,500 is the breaking point.

Problem is people not taking responsibility for their health.
Problem is increasing age demographic and not enough spent on NHS for the service people seem to expect. People also expect to be taken care of - after all, they've paid their dues haven't they?
Yeah but if people kept control of their weight/diet, stopped smoking, drank less and exercised the costs would probably halve. All of the top killers are heavily lifestyle related. There's a reason they renamed adult-onset diabetes etc.

And no, most people will never pay enough to cover their costs.

Yes the funding and ageing demographic are problems, but are hard to solve.
All true, but what to do about it? No-one seems to want to have the conversation.
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Post by Scottrf on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 1:24 pm

Bring back fat shaming IMO.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 31 Aug 2017, 2:10 pm

Icm..Con 41 - Labour 41

Yougov..Con 41...Labour 42.

Gridlock really..Both leaders are probably holding their parties back..Corbyn to a lesser extent.

Talking about Labour leadership..Wrote a post saying Emily Thornberry is a shoe in for next Lab leader a couple of months ago....

Unions like her...
With the new influx of mps the threshold won't be a problem.
She deputises for Corbyn at Pmqs.
Two thirds of the membership are left wing as the Corbyn v Smith showed.
Labour will elect an overdue female leader next time.
There isn't anyone else on the "Left" that looks the part.
She is charismatic and a butt kicker.
Corbyn should have more control of the inner workings of the party by the time he leaves.

I don't gamble but if you bet responsibly it seems crazy for her to be on 12/1.

Nailed on for me.

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Post by LionsV2 on Thu 31 Aug 2017, 9:04 pm

Labour go more central with someone like Cooper and they romp it, much of the Tory support is merely anti socialism.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 31 Aug 2017, 9:24 pm

I think you're right buddy.

But the membership is pre-dominantly left wing...The inner workings will probably be lefty soon.

Thornberry is a heavyweight..A Corbyn loyalist.. They will also think it is time for a Woman. Cooper should have gone along for the ride.

Staggered if Thornberry isn't his successor.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:32 am

Labour have a problem then. I hate to admit it, but Lions has a point and that doesn't dovetail with the current vogue in the Labour Party. Depending on what happens over the next few years and the actual effects of the Brexit decision, Labour may be near their high-water mark around now if they stick to the Corbyn brand.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 11:11 am

North Worle. Somerset..

Lab 36 (+22%)
Con 32..

Seems to be a huge North/South disconnect...Labour gaining traction down South...The Conservatives in the North...

In other news it seems the SNP have financial problems...Membership dropping...No referendum in sight and spent more than they could afford at GE17..

The Tories...Libs and Labour have mops ready to clean up.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 11:21 am

Haven't seen anyone love polls so much since Gianna Michaels.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 11:30 am

I love all Eastern Europeans.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 1:42 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:North Worle.  Somerset..

Lab 36 (+22%)
Con 32..

Seems to be a huge North/South disconnect...Labour gaining traction down South...The Conservatives in the North...

In other news it seems the SNP have financial problems...Membership dropping...No referendum in sight and spent more than they could afford at GE17..

The Tories...Libs and Labour have mops ready to clean up.

Jesus, nobody say anything to Craig.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 1:56 pm

Liam Fox, after previously saying that negotiations would be "easy" is now accusing the EU of blackmailing the UK.

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Post by GSC on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 2:11 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:North Worle.  Somerset..

Lab 36 (+22%)
Con 32..

Seems to be a huge North/South disconnect...Labour gaining traction down South...The Conservatives in the North...

In other news it seems the SNP have financial problems...Membership dropping...No referendum in sight and spent more than they could afford at GE17..

The Tories...Libs and Labour have mops ready to clean up.

Jesus, nobody say anything to Craig.

Its just Westminster propaganda
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 02 Sep 2017, 10:52 am

Scottrf wrote:Haven't seen anyone love polls so much since Gianna Michaels.
Laugh
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 10:53 am

Excellent! Rees-Mogg effectively rules himself out of ever leading the Tories:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172426

Hopefully, his stance will bite him on the arse at other times as well.
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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 11:08 am

You can't silence the Mogg.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 11:09 am

Don't need to it would seem!
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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 11:12 am

Angela Merkel hasn't struggled for support despite her Christian views; voted against gay marriage and barely a mention.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 1:47 pm

It seems that Lions is our new Whatabouter-in-chief.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 2:38 pm

Why because I like JRM?

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 2:48 pm

Do you know what whataboutery means?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 2:54 pm

Word is Mogg is being lined up for a ministerial role..The problem with being relegated to a minority administration is when you sack sizeable names like Gove and types like Mogg get wind in their sails.

You have to bring them into the tent.

He is different I'll give him that.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:17 pm

He's a stupid person's idea of a clever person, like Walter from Dennis the Menace

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:38 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:He's a stupid person's idea of a clever person, like Walter from Dennis the Menace

You mean well spoken, well (expensively) educated in things like Classics and Latin (although his degree is actually in History), and slightly other-worldly.

I like the description given by Quentin Letts for JRM - The Honourable member for the early 20th century

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

Much rather Rees-Mogg than the litany of false politicians we have.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:06 pm

Because Rees-Mogg is so genuine and he truly wants what's best for everyone in Britain.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:10 pm

He is pretty genuine actually, that's his appeal.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:16 pm

LionsV2 wrote:He is pretty genuine actually, that's his appeal.

Two things:
1 - How can you tell who is genuine?
2 - Even if he is, that doesn't make him right. I'd say two of the most genuine politicians in my lifetime (in the sense of saying what they believed and acting on it) have been Dennis Skinner and Norman Tebbitt, and you couldn't get two more diametrically opposed sets of opinions than between those two...

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:19 pm

Dennis Skinner is the biggest weasel in the house of commons, a truly loathsome human being.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:21 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Dennis Skinner is the biggest weasel in the house of commons, a truly loathsome human being.

Care to back that up with anything?

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:26 pm

Personal opinion, just like your dislike of Rees-Mogg is your personal opinion.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:38 pm

JRM thinks that women should not be allowed to have an abortion, even if they've been r@ped. He's anti gay marriage and a climate-change skeptic. He's against any rise in benefits whatsoever, even in the case of the disabled.

In 2013, JRM was the guest of honour at n event hosted by the "Traditional Britain Group", a group that wants to return black people to "their natural homeland".

Genuine, sure. A genuine bigot.

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:48 pm

Your use of the word sceptic is erroneous there, he doesn't think it's worth taking measures to counteract it rather than denying it's happening. The Gala dinner was a huge error on his part and one he immediately apologised for when it became clear that they were in fact a fairly fascist group. I could mention a certain politicians links to various terrorist organisations but that would be whataboutery on my behalf.

Ultimately he's a Conservative for actual Conservatives.

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:50 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Your use of the word sceptic is erroneous there, he doesn't think it's worth taking measures to counteract it rather than denying it's happening. The Gala dinner was a huge error on his part and one he immediately apologised for when it became clear that they were in fact a fairly fascist group. I could mention a certain politicians links to various terrorist organisations but that would be whataboutery on my behalf.

Ultimately he's a Conservative for actual Conservatives.

He was warned about the group running the dinner before he went by Searchlight and he decided to go anyway. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10230962/Jacob-Rees-Moggs-shock-at-dinner-with-group-that-want-to-repatriate-black-Britons.html

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:56 pm

Unless he shares their views it's not really relevant is it or do you think you're going to change my opinion?

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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:03 pm

How can him giving a keynote speech at an event hosted by an openly racist organisation not be relevant?

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:18 pm

Relevant to me personally liking him how?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:20 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Unless he shares their views it's not really relevant is it or do you think you're going to change my opinion?

....With respect It didn't seem to stop you laying into Corbyn and the IRA.....

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Post by LionsV2 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:30 pm

Emphasis on shared views.

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