Political round up.............

by GSC Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:14 am

First topic message reminder :

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

The UK voted to leave the EU. Every Scottish vote counted the same as every other UK citizen. I don't see the issue.

The Scots (a good number if you look at post-ref stats from neutral sources) decided to vote no on varying issues. One of the main ones was because they feared losing their place in Europe. That won loads of votes for Better Together and has proved to be fruitless for the voters as they are now out of Europe.

The issue is that many Scots sees Scotland as its own country - sure not independent - but very close to it as they have their own government. However, when they vote by 62% to remain in Europe and end up being taken out of Europe it becomes a big issue to many. Yes we know the UK voted to exit but there are perhaps a million plus Scots who fail to recognize or accept being part of the UK or see themselves Scottish first and foremost and feel how they vote should hold more water than it does in the current union.

Sorry Craig, but that's democracy. Why should somebody in Edinburghs vote count more than someone's in London? Almost as ridiculous as Mhairi Black complaining that a region with more inhabitants had more MPs representing it than another region with less MPs.

But such is the politics of the SNP, always phrasing as Scotland vs the rest of the UK (or more accurately England) when Scotland voted to be part of the UK.

by Muscular-mouse Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:35 pm

I think its common knowledge that we will be poorer outside of the EU. The pound will lose value, price of goods will increase and who knows what trade deals we will secure but they wont be as good as the ones we have now.

So to say the uk government will replace EU funding is just a lie because we will have less money.

by GSC Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:38 pm

The Euro might be coming to join us pending what happens in Germany

by Ent Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:18 pm

Muscular-mouse wrote:I think its common knowledge that we will be poorer outside of the EU. The pound will lose value, price of goods will increase and who knows what trade deals we will secure but they wont be as good as the ones we have now.

So to say the uk government will replace EU funding is just a lie because we will have less money.

But we will have £320 million more a week?!?...

U.K. Households £400 a year worse off already.

Brexit vote 'has made households £400-a-year worse off', say researchers - Sky News
https://apple.news/AmPFH4SXETgK3wX4-xUUKww

Eu not going to offer passporting rights to London based financial companies.

EU 'ready for ambitious' trade deal amid warning for City on banking passport - Sky News
https://apple.news/A5bYO7M4RSO2sg686BVK5Eg

Long term things will be ok, this is a rich country - the questions are will we be better off outside (unlikely) and is it worth the short term hurt (no in my opinion).

by LionsV2 Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:22 pm

Was it ever about the economy? No.

by Ent Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:27 pm

Your point being?

by Steffan Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:28 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Was it ever about the economy? No.

What was it about then?

by LionsV2 Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

by Samo Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

by Steffan Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

by Steffan Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:44 pm

Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

Steffan wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.
Which were?

Whooooooooooooooooooa spooky laughing

by Ent Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:05 pm

The economy is fairly important, hence people "banging on about it".

Ignoring it and stating leaving was never about the economy is missing the point.

Suppose if the economy ends up Frak no one will want to come here and migration will be reduced...

by Duty281 Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:35 pm

Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

by Muscular-mouse Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

by Samo Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:07 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

What supreme EU laws was the UK bound to that the people didnt like? Or what laws do the people want to see put in place once we leave that we couldnt before?

by **JuliusHMarx** Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:34 pm

I doubt many people have specific examples. It's more of a sweeping 'We don't want to be ruled by Eurocrats as a matter of principle' statement.
Some Leave voters were no doubt prepared to sacrifice the economy for that.

As for immigration - what is that argument about, if not the economy? I hate to think it's about anything else.

by SecretFly Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:30 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

What supreme EU laws was the UK bound to that the people didnt like? Or what laws do the people want to see put in place once we leave that we couldnt before?

Choosing who migrates to your country and who doesn't?
A border that the UK Government, elected by the people of the UK, controls independently of directives from a European Administration?

I guess the EU Laws people didn't like were... 'EU' Laws.... as Julius says.... in principle. Better to Rule in Hell than Serve in Heaven and all that jazz.

by LionsV2 Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:35 pm

Muscular-mouse wrote:

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

What utter nonsense, EU law is supreme over any member, being able to leave doesn't alter that and yes immigration will fall after we leave.

Truss in counter to that mentioned that they were net contributors to the economy but that would attributing the contributions of the few to the many. I do find it strange how Corbyns strongest supporters are so pro EU when he himself has always regarded it with disdain.

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:07 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

What utter nonsense, EU law is supreme over any member, being able to leave doesn't alter that and yes immigration will fall after we leave.

Truss in counter to that mentioned that they were net contributors to the economy but that would attributing the contributions of the few to the many. I do find it strange how Corbyns strongest supporters are so pro EU when he himself has always regarded it with disdain.

Literally none of this discussion has anything to do with Jeremy Corbyn. What's wrong with you?

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:22 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

What utter nonsense, EU law is supreme over any member, being able to leave doesn't alter that and yes immigration will fall after we leave.

Truss in counter to that mentioned that they were net contributors to the economy but that would attributing the contributions of the few to the many. I do find it strange how Corbyns strongest supporters are so pro EU when he himself has always regarded it with disdain.

So which supreme EU laws would you like to see repealed once we the the EU? Can you give me a specific one?

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:55 am

Pr4wn wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

What utter nonsense, EU law is supreme over any member, being able to leave doesn't alter that and yes immigration will fall after we leave.

Truss in counter to that mentioned that they were net contributors to the economy but that would attributing the contributions of the few to the many. I do find it strange how Corbyns strongest supporters are so pro EU when he himself has always regarded it with disdain.

Literally none of this discussion has anything to do with Jeremy Corbyn. What's wrong with you?

It has everything to do with all British politics, good God.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:02 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:

Well EU law was never supreme as a British law could always over ride EU law ( the example being us voting to leave the EU). We always had the power to decide if we wanted eu law or not.

The reason leave won was because of immigration and nothing else. Its a shame because the people that voted leave to reduce immigration were sold a lie because it wont reduce even after leaving the EU as MEP hannan said amongst others.

What utter nonsense, EU law is supreme over any member, being able to leave doesn't alter that and yes immigration will fall after we leave.

Truss in counter to that mentioned that they were net contributors to the economy but that would attributing the contributions of the few to the many. I do find it strange how Corbyns strongest supporters are so pro EU when he himself has always regarded it with disdain.

That's a rather sweeping generalisation, unless you're referring to 2 or 3 people on this forum, it which case it's such a small sample that it's not really that strange anyway.

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:05 am

Yes I'm basing that on 2 or 3 people on this forum Doh

It's not as if the majority of the youth voted both remain and for Labour is it.

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:12 am

So how about those specific EU supreme laws you want to see repealed once we leave...

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:32 am

LionsV2 wrote:Yes I'm basing that on 2 or 3 people on this forum

It's not as if the majority of the youth voted both remain and for Labour is it.

So it's almost as if "the youth" decided that although the were more pro EU than Corbyn, they still decided that overall, they preferred Labour policies to Tory policies (whilst realising that a LibDem vote carried little weight). Good Lord, that really is strange.

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:35 am

Have you been hiding away for the past year?

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:40 am

LionsV2 wrote:Have you been hiding away for the past year?

So you dont have any specific examples of supreme EU laws being forced apon the UK that you would like to see repealed?

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:50 am

Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Have you been hiding away for the past year?

So you dont have any specific examples of supreme EU laws being forced apon the UK that you would like to see repealed?

You keep asking a question that neither Duty or I have insinuated, we have both said that the UK government should be the ultimate power in this country, I realise that's quite complex but don't go putting words into our mouths that we have not said.

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:53 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Have you been hiding away for the past year?

So you dont have any specific examples of supreme EU laws being forced apon the UK that you would like to see repealed?

You keep asking a question that neither Duty or I have insinuated, we have both said that the UK government should be the ultimate power in this country, I realise that's quite complex but don't go putting words into our mouths that we have not said.

By saying its not the ultimate power you are insinuating that the EU enforces stuff on us against our will - what with it being a higher level of government and all. All Im asking is for a single example of EU law being enforced on us thay you disagree with.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 am

Ent wrote:Your point being?

It was about xenophobia, obviously Cool

...

by **superflyweight** Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:19 am

LionsV2 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Have you been hiding away for the past year?

So you dont have any specific examples of supreme EU laws being forced apon the UK that you would like to see repealed?

You keep asking a question that neither Duty or I have insinuated, we have both said that the UK government should be the ultimate power in this country, I realise that's quite complex but don't go putting words into our mouths that we have not said.

Do you not believe in the separation of powers then?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:20 am

Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Have you been hiding away for the past year?

So you dont have any specific examples of supreme EU laws being forced apon the UK that you would like to see repealed?

You keep asking a question that neither Duty or I have insinuated, we have both said that the UK government should be the ultimate power in this country, I realise that's quite complex but don't go putting words into our mouths that we have not said.

By saying its not the ultimate power you are insinuating that the EU enforces stuff on us against our will - what with it being a higher level of government and all. All Im asking is for a single example of EU law being enforced on us thay you disagree with.

Political round up............. - Page 20 1347041234

by Duty281 Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:15 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

What supreme EU laws was the UK bound to that the people didnt like? Or what laws do the people want to see put in place once we leave that we couldnt before?

This point is about greater democratic control, not about repealing specific parts of EU legislation.

by Muscular-mouse Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:22 pm

I have asked many leave voters that same question when they say they don't like EU law or something to that effect. None of them have answered back with any laws that they don't like and most of them can't actually name ANY EU laws et alone laws they disagree with.

It is very easy to sway the views of people who have little knowledge of the EU by making sweeping statements such as 'The EU is forcing their laws onto us' or 'we are being dictated to by the EU who make our laws'.

Simple lies defeat complex truths

by Steffan Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Some of the reasons people of all ages gave in my local pub for voting Leave were:

'Cut down on immigration'
'Stop the EU telling us what to do'
'We never voluntarily joined the EU...just the Common Market'

And my questions of:

'Name me one immigrant you know around here' (No answer)
'Name me one EU law you don't like' (No answer)
'Name me one negative impact being in the EU has on your life' (No answer)

And nearly 18 months on....they still can't answer those questions

by **Galted** Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:54 pm

Steffan wrote:Some of the reasons people of all ages gave in my local pub for voting Leave were:

'Cut down on immigration'
'Stop the EU telling us what to do'
'We never voluntarily joined the EU...just the Common Market'

And my questions of:

'Name me one immigrant you know around here' (No answer)
'Name me one EU law you don't like' (No answer)
'Name me one negative impact being in the EU has on your life' (No answer)

And nearly 18 months on....they still can't answer those questions

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

What supreme EU laws was the UK bound to that the people didnt like? Or what laws do the people want to see put in place once we leave that we couldnt before?

This point is about greater democratic control, not about repealing specific parts of EU legislation.

Can you give me an example of the UK not being able to exercise its democratic sovereignty because of EU legislation?

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:32 pm

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

by **Pr4wn** Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:39 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

I will. But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

by Samo Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:39 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant. I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

No doubt the mods couldn't give me an example of the EU enforcing supreme authority and denying the UK democratic sovereignty either...

by Duty281 Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Those constantly banging on about the economy are missing the point and the actual reasons for voting leave.

Which were?

The answer to this has been posted before.

The two major reasons that people voted to Leave were an end to the supremacy of EU law and greater controls over immigration.

What supreme EU laws was the UK bound to that the people didnt like? Or what laws do the people want to see put in place once we leave that we couldnt before?

This point is about greater democratic control, not about repealing specific parts of EU legislation.

Can you give me an example of the UK not being able to exercise its democratic sovereignty because of EU legislation?

The supremacy of EU law over UK law is established, as I have said before, by the European Communities Act 1972.

Confirmation of this fact was established in the court case of Factortame, where the UK's updated Merchant Shipping Act of 1988 (which aimed to prevent non-UK fleets fishing in British waters) was held to be incompatible with EU law, and thusly said act was repealed.

by LionsV2 Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:50 pm

You're like a broken record, not sure what part of what I said you don't understand but specific laws have nothing to do with it.

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https://www.606v2.com/viewtopic.forum?t=67003

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