Ulster 2016/2017

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Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 5:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Redman wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Any inside info on Dom Ryan yet? 27 and the only IQ backrower not tied up for next year. Where do you put his out of interest in a pecking order? Better or worse than Clive Ross? My hunch is better, but I've not really ever watched him closely.

Has to be better.  I looked him up before and he has something like 100 or so caps for Leinster.  Ross has about 50 for us, and it's got to be tougher to get a cap for Leinster than it is for Ulster in the backrow - even allowing for international call ups.  

Dryan ®, as he shall be known if he signs, also has 20 or so U20 caps.  

That said, I haven't seen him play.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 24 May 2017, 3:56 pm

Sigh. Can we please make a pact on this thread to ignore Phil so we don't have these endless arguments on this particular thread? If you want to address him, please do so on another thread.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Maine man on Wed 24 May 2017, 5:22 pm

Any word/rumours on who ulster might sign instead of arno?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 24 May 2017, 7:27 pm

Nope because I honestly believe that when he failed the medical no one was being lined up.

Panic ebused.

Maybe someone from the Cheetahs or the SunWolves who are both being kicked out of the SH championship or a player
from whichever is dissolved out of Western Force and Melbourne Rebels

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 24 May 2017, 7:29 pm

Maine man wrote:Any word/rumours on who ulster might sign instead of arno?

No, but I'm guessing that there must still be time to sign someone decent. I saw that Rassie Erasmus said recently about Munster looking for a good second row to replace Ryan and Foley.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 24 May 2017, 7:38 pm

If there's two Super Rugby teams being culled, we might be able to pick up.a good backrow.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 24 May 2017, 7:44 pm

The best possible signing would be Facundo Isa.

...until I just found out that he has signed for Toulon. Sigh.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 24 May 2017, 7:45 pm

Its actually 3 - 2 from SA and 1 from Aus so you would think so

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Kingshu on Wed 24 May 2017, 9:35 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Nope because I honestly believe that when he failed the medical no one was being lined up.

Panic ebused.

Maybe someone from the Cheetahs or the SunWolves who are both being kicked out of the SH championship or a player
from whichever is dissolved out of Western Force and Melbourne Rebels

SunWolves the Japense team are being moved from SA conference to Aus one.

Its two SA team and one Aus team being culled.

Likely western Force, Cheetahs and Southern Kings

But we would have to be quick to get the best of them as the other sides will want them as well.
Dont know them but Oupa Mohojé has been capped 12 times and is 26, would he be the best?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Wed 24 May 2017, 10:00 pm

Capped 12 times? Was Arno not a project? Or was he an NIQ spot?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 24 May 2017, 10:44 pm

Should have said Kings not Sun Wolves - sorry

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 24 May 2017, 10:45 pm

clivemcl wrote:Capped 12 times? Was Arno not a project? Or was he an NIQ spot?

He was definitely a NIQ

Would have made us 3+1 next year

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Wed 24 May 2017, 11:09 pm

Just couldn't remember - I guess because he's not exactly a household name. I wonder if IRFU are still pulling the string with Hendo, or if Ulster will be happy to play him wherever it makes sense. Perhaps we are happy to be looking at NIQ locks too - would make sense to do so if it's slim pickings at this stage.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 24 May 2017, 11:52 pm

clive don't be saying that about going after locks, Jim Hamiltons free and Titti Von Tramps got her Deep Heat ready plus I've just heard his win percentage at Sarries and if you thought we were rubbish before...

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 25 May 2017, 9:21 am

clivemcl wrote:Just couldn't remember - I guess because he's not exactly a household name. I wonder if IRFU are still pulling the string with Hendo, or if Ulster will be happy to play him wherever it makes sense. Perhaps we are happy to be looking at NIQ locks too - would make sense to do so if it's slim pickings at this stage.

Nope IRFU want Hendo as a Lock.

Also he would not solve the problem given he will be away during the transfer windows.

We will be on the look out for a backrower.
A Lock really is needed as well, otherwise we will be short on number - an Irish granny somewhere would be my guess

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 25 May 2017, 8:48 pm

Two bijou observationettes.

Tom Court retired last night. Fair play to the fella. Part of a fantastic Ulster front row, and a tremendous servant.

Also, I was reminded during a meeting today that Ulster have the explicitly stated aim that every schoolchild in NI will be along to Ravenhill as part of a school trip at least twice during their school years.

It feels to me like the senior team is wobbling, but there's some smart, ambitious foundations being laid.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by toml on Fri 26 May 2017, 8:10 am

If the Western Force are removed from super rugby we could try and get Ben McCalman. Solid player, 40 odd wallaby caps

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 26 May 2017, 9:01 am

Would be great but I suspect Australia will do everything to retain him.

He was one of the first to get a flexible contract - basically allowing player to get some big bucks in Japan and still be eligible to play for Australia.
I suspect one of the other franchises will pick him up on a similar contract.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 9:18 am

There may well be no Aussie franchise to get cut depending on the threatened legal action so we may have to scrap a barrel somewhere or maybe Botha will make a miraculous recovery

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by toml on Fri 26 May 2017, 9:18 am

Yeah I thought that Geoff, but I hope they are investigating anyone of that caliber they can.

I was speaking to one of my Aussie mates the other day and he says rugby is in big trouble over there. No one of quality coming through and Aussie rules is taking off in traditional rugby and league areas. They will be shipping in the islanders at 15

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 9:58 am

Its been going on for a long time in Oz tom, seems those in charge were asleep at the wheel for a long time

Its not like we have to worry about that since we have St. David in charge its not like he was ARU High Performance Manager picard

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 26 May 2017, 11:46 am

marty2086 wrote:There may well be no Aussie franchise to get cut depending on the threatened legal action so we may have to scrap a barrel somewhere or maybe Botha will make a miraculous recovery

My reading is the Aussies want to cut the Rebels but because of legal action they may survive and it will be the Force instead.
Australia will have no choice - the other 4 countries will not allow themselves to be dictated by Australia and its problems.
if 5 into 4 doesn't go that for Australia to sort it out

The Saffers by contrast have stated the 2 teams will be joining an alternative international completion (pro 12??)

Watching super 18 it seems to me they have overextended themselves - the 4 teams under threat (2 Saffers, 2 Aus) have never been truly competitive.
Mind you at the moment the Saffers and Aussies are competitive with the Kiwis (are the 5 Kiwi teams the 5 best teams in the competition ?)

The expansion to Japan and Argentina was a great move, the expansion of teams in SA and Australia was a step too far

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 26 May 2017, 11:53 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:There may well be no Aussie franchise to get cut depending on the threatened legal action so we may have to scrap a barrel somewhere or maybe Botha will make a miraculous recovery

My reading is the Aussies want to cut the Rebels but because of legal action they may survive and it will be the Force instead.
Australia will have no choice - the other 4 countries will not allow themselves to be dictated by Australia and its problems.
if 5 into 4 doesn't go that for Australia to sort it out

The Saffers by contrast have stated the 2 teams will be joining an alternative international completion (pro 12??)

Watching super 18 it seems to me they have overextended themselves - the 4 teams under threat (2 Saffers, 2 Aus) have never been truly competitive.
Mind you at the moment the Saffers and Aussies are competitive with the Kiwis (are the 5 Kiwi teams the 5 best teams in the competition ?)

The expansion to Japan and Argentina was a great move, the expansion of teams in SA and Australia was a step too far

The 5 Kiwi teams would be in the top 8 teams in the comp. Golden Lions are probably in the top 4 - hard to say as the draw means they haven't played any NZ teams this year. And the Blues/Stormers/Sharks are probably scrapping over 6th-8th.

The Stormers posted wins over the Chiefs and Blues in Cape Town, no other non-Kiwi side has beaten a Kiwi one yet this year. And the Blues haven't beaten any of the other 4 NZ teams this year.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 26 May 2017, 11:54 am

Apparently

IN - Cooney (Connacht)
SVDM (Southern Kings)

OUT - Ruan (Montpellier)
FVDM (Cardiff)
Joyce (Jersey Reds)
Best (Jersey Reds)
Murphy (Rotherham Titans)
Wilson (retired)
Donnan, Dow, Lutton and Mulholland (released)

As I said Donnan was going nowhere, didn't know about Dow though

Only Nelson and Trimble contracts outstanding

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:06 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:There may well be no Aussie franchise to get cut depending on the threatened legal action so we may have to scrap a barrel somewhere or maybe Botha will make a miraculous recovery

My reading is the Aussies want to cut the Rebels but because of legal action they may survive and it will be the Force instead.
Australia will have no choice - the other 4 countries will not allow themselves to be dictated by Australia and its problems.
if 5 into 4 doesn't go that for Australia to sort it out

The Saffers by contrast have stated the 2 teams will be joining an alternative international completion (pro 12??)

Watching super 18 it seems to me they have overextended themselves - the 4 teams under threat (2 Saffers, 2 Aus) have never been truly competitive.
Mind you at the moment the Saffers and Aussies are competitive with the Kiwis (are the 5 Kiwi teams the 5 best teams in the competition ?)

The expansion to Japan and Argentina was a great move, the expansion of teams in SA and Australia was a step too far

Theres legal action pending from the Force too, not sure how it'll work as the ARU own them but I think its the CEO running that. I know local businesses have backed them and I think a few local millionaires too are getting involved

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:07 pm

The way things are looking we should have asked Ruan if he wanted to move to the backrow, he got enough experience doing their work this season

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:12 pm

That gives us a guaranteed squad of 40 for next year with any new signings and people promoted to the first team squad to be added

Props: Ah You, Herbst, SVDM, McCall, Warwick, Black, Simpson, Kane
Hookers: Andrew, Best, Herring
Locks: AOC, Browne, Henderson, Treadwell, Diack
Backrow: Coetzee, Ross, Reidy, Henry, Rea
Scrum Half: Cooney, Marshall, Shanahan
Fly Half: Jackson, McPhillips, Heenan
Centers: McCloskey, Marshall, Cave, Payne
Back Three: Ludik, Piatau, Bowe, Trimble **, Gilroy, Stockdale, Lyttle
Utility backs: Olding, Nelson **

Jones from Leinster is a definite as I can be a backrow signing
I assume Timoney will get a full contract
** contract pending

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:30 pm

Same old story looking at that squad.

You could pick out a really top class first XV if everyone is available but one or two key injuries and we'd fall apart.

Losing Jackson for example would be season ending for us. With Olding's injury record and a bit of bad luck McPhillips could be debuting in our European games.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:30 pm

Any word on why theres no announcement about Trimble or even Nelson?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Kingshu on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:46 pm

Is Ryan going to move, I thought we were linked to Sean Dougall as well.

Any chance we are looking at Patrick Butler, or maybe if lock needs strengthing Tadhg Beirne (Munster are in the market for second rows as well)

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 26 May 2017, 1:04 pm

Nelson is also a backup to Jackson.

Trimble is just because he is moving from a Central to Provincial contract
Nelson I have no idea but believe he will be here next year

Dougall and Beirne would both be useful - is Beirne out of contract ?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 26 May 2017, 1:12 pm

From looking into Beirne before anything I could find said he had signed for the season which usually indicates a one year deal but I'd put money on an extension being in place and just not announced

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 26 May 2017, 2:57 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Nelson is also a backup to Jackson.

Trimble is just because he is moving from a Central to Provincial contract
Nelson I have no idea but believe he will be here next year

Dougall and Beirne would both be useful - is Beirne out of contract ?

Had forgotten about Nelson. He probably is our 2nd 10 at the minute.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by carpet baboon on Fri 26 May 2017, 7:55 pm

What happened with the young SA ten we were linked too?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by The Great Aukster on Fri 26 May 2017, 9:57 pm

Angus Curtis is playing in the u20s next week.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 27 May 2017, 8:45 am

Curtis is here but not clear yet whether of not he is getting a full contract or a development one

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by carpet baboon on Sat 27 May 2017, 11:26 am

Think he will keep playing cricket ?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 9:49 am

Stephen Ferris wrote:It's a worry for me, the amount of Ulster guys that are coming through the system and representing their province. Born and bred in Ulster.

A friend of mine who signed for Munster at the start of this season, and ended up moving to Connacht, was a guy called John Andress. He never got a start or got onto the matchday 23 for Munster.

I said, 'Why?' and he said, 'Rassie only wants to pick home-grown guys who actually know what it means to play for Munster. If there's a young guy who's a tight-head and he's showing a bit of belief or has a bit of hunger about him, he's going to pick him ahead of me every single time'.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily right but it's something that John thought was fair enough. I'm sure he was thinking, 'This guy has played his whole career for Munster Rugby while I'm just coming in here trying to establish myself as a Munster man'.

You look at the pack and, yes, there are a couple of Irish qualified players in there but none of them were born and bred in Ulster.

It's a worrying thing for me because you don't want to see any of the provinces turn into a Toulon, where you go out and buy in marquee players every summer and hope that because you've got this unbelievable name, like Marcell Coetzee, that it will turn everything around.

You've got to build a team and Ulster just don't have that at the minute.


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 28 May 2017, 11:42 am

Well said by Ferris, but he stops short of offering a solution. It's hard to pick home grown players when there aren't any.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 12:12 pm

I think he touches on part of it, Ulster don't have an identity.You look at the other provinces you can talk about their style of play and a recruitment blueprint. The same goes for the likes of Scarlets, Wasps, Exeter, Toulon etc but you can't say it for Ulster.

I think before the season starts Logan, Kiss, Bryn and Gibbes need to draw up that blueprint and that needs to be the template for all that follows, it needs to filter done through the club and anyone of those four if they are replaced who ever comes in has to come in knowing the blueprint they have to follow

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 28 May 2017, 12:28 pm

He has a point but John Andress is a total tube

To address the point in detail - our first choice pack has 4 Ulster born players in it and we would have no problem putting out a set of backs all born in Ulster.
Of the other 2 Irish by parentage, 1 by residency, 1 NIQ
Improve the coaching and the identity will come.

Exeter mentioned how many of their players were born in Devon, Cornwall or the western part of Somerset - very very few.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 28 May 2017, 2:12 pm

Best and Henderson are the only true Test class players in the pack born in Ulster. Judging by the representation in the age grade teams there isn't a whole lot coming through either.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Sun 28 May 2017, 3:08 pm

Load of hysterical drivel. Andress didn't get played because he is rubbish.

Munster are bringing in Hart and Farrell this summer. They already have Conway and Keatley. And that's just the Irish non-locals.

There are obviously issues with our forward production, but the comparison with Munster and their "born and bred" identity is press release fluff.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 3:52 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Exeter mentioned how many of their players were born in Devon, Cornwall or the western part of Somerset - very very few.

Exeter were mentioned because they have a style they wish to play and a blueprint they seem to use when it comes to recruitment and improve year on year because of it

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 3:55 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Load of hysterical drivel. Andress didn't get played because he is rubbish.

Munster are bringing in Hart and Farrell this summer. They already have Conway and Keatley. And that's just the Irish non-locals.

There are obviously issues with our forward production, but the comparison with Munster and their "born and bred" identity is press release fluff.

They didn't say EVERY player had to be from Munster but the preference is there, Andress while not a world beater is solid enough to do a job but when when the cupboards were getting bare he wasn't being selected. I like how you know better than those closer to the situation Rolling Eyes

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Sun 28 May 2017, 6:45 pm

Well, what I'm doing is going by what they do, rather than what some eejit making excuses for himself says.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 28 May 2017, 6:45 pm

Just because someone is closer to the situation doesn't necessarily mean they are right. Plus, the fact that Ferris is friends with Andress may skew his opinion of the situation somewhat. Don may well be right, perhaps Erasmus didn't actually rate him at all and that's why he wasn't selected.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 7:11 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, what I'm doing is going by what they do, rather than what some eejit making excuses for himself says.

He was so awful they signed him Rolling Eyes

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Sun 28 May 2017, 8:39 pm

Yeah. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sun 28 May 2017, 8:44 pm

Im going nowhere with it, I merely posted what Ferris had said but you decided that Andress was making stuff up because he didnt want to say he was crap

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 28 May 2017, 9:20 pm

When Andress was at Ulster he had a reputation of having a higher opinion of his abilities than the coaches did, and a temper shorter than his gametime. That theme seemed to perpetuate at Quins and Exeter...

Munster have fostered the 'world's against us' mentality for years so it would be unusual if Andress didn't get that message - doesn't mean it will work for Ulster or anyone else. As Geoff says Ulster will improve with a good coach, and Exeter have shown that players don't need to speak with local accents.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

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