All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

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All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 02 May 2017, 1:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

In response to LondonTiger's Lions' fitness thread, here's my crack at the NZ squad prospects. Any updates appreciated


Updated June 16th
Player Position Notes
Dane Coles Hooker Concussion. Looking unlikely for the Lions now
Codie Taylor Hooker Misfired in the lineouts for the Crusaders vs Lions. Excellent game vs Samoa
Liam Coltman Hooker Injury cover for Coles. Good for the Highlanders vs the Lions. Not selected vs Samoa
Nathan Harris Hooker
Joe Moody Prop Scrum & defence good vs Samoa
Wyatt Crockett Prop
Kane Hames Prop Maori Squad
Owen Franks Prop
Charlie Faumuina Prop
 Jeffrey Toomaga-Allen Prop Not selected
Ofa Tu'ungafasi Prop Backup prop as he can play both sides of the scrum at a pinch
Brodie Retallick Second row 
Sam Whitelock Second row  In good form prior to sitting out a 2 week ban for striking the (Golden) Lions player who took him out in the air
Scott Barrett Second row Back from injury for a good 30 mins off the bench vs Samoa
Luke Romano Second row Has slipped behind Barrett, but playing fairly well
Patrick Tuipolotu Second row Not selected
Jerome Kaino Back row Back from knee surgery & played well vs Samoa
Liam Squire Back row Broken thumb. Due back mid June
Stephen Luatua Back row Not selected
Sam Cane Back row
Ardie Savea Back row Returning to the 'Canes' bench after concussion June3. Has been In imperious form at both 7 & 8
Kieran Read Back row Broken thumb. Due back early June - not expected to play before the 1st test
Luke Whitelock Back row Not selected
Elliot Dixon Back row Released to play for the Maori
Matt Todd Back row Injury cover selection
Akira Ioane Back row Injury cover for Abs, released to play for the Maori
Vaea Fifita  Back row Injury cover for Abs. Good off the bench vs Samoa
Aaron Smith Scrum half
TJ Perenara Scrum half
Tawera Kerr-Barlow Scrum half
 Augustine Pulu Scrum half Not selected
Beauden Barrett Outside half
Aaron Cruden Outside half Missed Samoa test due to leg injury for Chiefs vs Canes
Lima Sopoaga Outside half Hamstring kept him out until mid-May. Average for the Highlanders vs Lions, good off the bench vs Samao
Ryan Crotty Centre Rib cartilage injury. May be back for the 1st test
Anton Lienart-Brown Centre
Sonny Bill Williams Centre
Ngani Laumape Centre Bolter - playing like a young Nonu for the Canes this season
Jack Goodhue Centre Injury Cover for Crotty. Excellent Super Rugby season, had some good moments for the Crusaders vs the Lions
Malikai Fekitoa Centre Not selected
Charlie Ngatai Centre Missed a year of rugby due to concussion. In the Maori squad
George Moala Centre Not selected
Julian Savea Wing Not at his best yet. Normally peaks around August so WIP
Waisake Naholo Wing Excellent for the Highlanders vs the Lions
Nehe Milner-Skudder Wing In the Maori squad
Rieko Ioane Wing Excellent for the Blues vs the Lions
Seta Taminavalu Wing Not selected
James Lowe Wing In the Maori squad
Ben Smith Full back
Israel Dagg Full back
Damien McKenzie Full back In the Maori squad
Jordie Barrett Utility Decent on debut off the bench vs Samoa



Last edited by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 16 Jun 2017, 4:20 pm; edited 9 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated table)
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 9:23 am

ebop wrote:Guns, unfortunately you can't have your favourite referee in charge because I think our record with him isn't so great. He's really really good at levelling the playing field.

Angus Gardener would have been a good choice for one of the tests. I think he only got the BaBas game though.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 9:24 am

There for the taking

Synonyms: at hand, attainable, no problem, no sweat, on offer, on tap, piece of cake, pushover

Don't get me wrong, I think the ABs will clean sweep the Lions but I'll never describe them as 'there for the taking'
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 9:27 am

Attainable. You answered your own question.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 9:38 am

And the rest? Think we use the phrase in different ways. It's good to know that now. I'll probably start using it a bit more. The Lions are there for the taking. Got a ring to it Wink
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 9:59 am

There is no reason why you shouldnt feel confident given the last tour. However, I dont think there is any sense in showing if you dont think you can win. That goes for the Lions too.

Winners like Farrell and Sexton will be frothing at the mouth to secure their place in history foolish as that may be.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by cascough on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:04 am

I may be showing my ignorance here, but regarding the OP, is Joe Romano a different player, or should it be Luke?

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:13 am

Must be Luke Id say. I wonder how many ABs there have been over the years of Italian descent?

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:19 am

cascough wrote:I may be showing my ignorance here, but regarding the OP, is Joe Romano a different player, or should it be Luke?
Doh

I've done that before. Think I conflate him with Joe Wheeler from the Highlanders - they played lock together for Tasman a few years back.

I've fixed my spreadsheet, so it'll be right next update ...


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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:22 am

Guns, it's not about not thinking you'll win it's about not over cooking it. Do you know how many times we've heard 'the ABs are there for the taking'? A lot. It's inflammatory and it's fantastic when players, coaches and fans say it because you get a game like the recent ABs v Ireland game in Dublin where the ABs physically and figuratively pummelled beat the Irish. After Chicago we heard all about how the ABs were there for the taking. I'd like Gatland to come out and say it but he knows better than that unfortunately. And it's the same reason you'll never hear the ABs utter the phrase even with their record.


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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:23 am

You'd like gatland to say they're unbeatable? Not going to happen.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:24 am

Didn't say that
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:27 am

All you have to do is look at an AB for them to think you are being inflammatory.

In the game in Dublin the ABs didn't physically pummel the Irish. Ireland clearly won the forward battle. The ABs were very ill disciplined and therefore fortunate Ireland weren't able to convert all their possession, penalties and territory into scores. The ABs were also fortunate not to get penalised more. I think the Lions are better equipped to do this.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:28 am

That's what the phrase means: attainable, doable. You'll hear plenty that it's a challenge to do as well but certainly not impossible.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:29 am

Tell a team they're pushovers and see what happens
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:30 am

I doubt anyone would say that in public. Probably not in private about nz either!

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:31 am

We use the phrase in the below context

Synonyms: no problem, no sweat, piece of cake, pushover
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:33 am

Guns, Ireland got hammered beaten at home by the ABs

Wake up fella


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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:38 am

Even by your own list ebop attainable is much higher. Not sure what dictionary you use down there but if there's understanding of the term it isn't inflammatory etc.

On the side note of the ireland d game in Dublin I think it'll help nz loads. They'll know they were rattled and played to close and over the line at times so they'll have a better idea of far they can go.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:47 am

Go look it up yourself 7.5 and you'll get the drift
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:48 am

ebop wrote:Guns, Ireland got hammered at home by the ABs

Wake up fella

Hammered? Haha you are deluded Ebop. Since when is a 12 point win a hammering especially when Barrett pulled off a try saving tackle on the line. It is also a lower margin of victory of all NZ games in 2016 prior to that. Deluded much?

You reckon that the ABs won the forward battle and yet Ireland had 63% posession, 70% territorial advantage and won a higher percentage of rucks and mauls.

New Zealand conceded 14 penalties to 4 and gave away 2 yellow cards and copped one ban. All the stats show that NZ lost the physical battle and were significantly more indisciplined.

New Zealand won because their backs were far better at converting their chances than Irelands and NZ took out a few of Ireland's players. However, Ireland bullied NZ in the forwards again.

In the last three Ireland v NZ games NZ have conceded 36 penalties, three yellow cards and one ban to Irelands 12 penalties and no cards and no bans. All evidence suggests Ireland are physically superior to NZ particularly in the forwards but in general NZs discipline is quite poor.


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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:51 am

What did Ireland do with all that possession?

SFA

You can quote all the stats you like but I watched with my own eyes and Ireland were clueless and got hammered beaten


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:53 am

Yes looked it up ebop. As did you and you helpfully copied some of the synonyms. As I said not inflammatory unless you you class nz as unbeatable.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 10:53 am

ebop wrote:What did Ireland do with all that possession?

SFA

You can quote all the stats you like but I watched with my own eyes and Ireland were clueless and got hammered

By the sounds of it you were hammered yourself. Its hard having a sensible conversation about rugby with a Kiwi. Do you hate logic and facts?

Did you know the ABs arent perfect deities?

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:27 am

Of course I don't think the ABs are perfect. We lost to Ireland last year for example. Ireland were the better team that day. You maintain Ireland were the better team in Dublin but lost. So you don't reckon a 3 tries to 0 tries victory is a hammering convincing win?  Ireland had a fair bit of possession but did nothing with it. Side to side and kick or getting hammered in the tackle. Watch the ABs backline with backs and forwards and look at the inroads they made. It's on YouTube. Watch it again.


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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:36 am

ebop wrote:Of course I don't think the ABs are perfect. We lost to Ireland last year for example. Ireland were the better team that day. You maintain Ireland were the better team in Dublin but lost. So you don't reckon a 3 tries to 0 tries victory is a hammering?  Ireland had a fair bit of possession but did nothing with it. Side to side and kick or getting hammered in the tackle. Watch the ABs backline with backs and forwards and look at the inroads they made. It's on YouTube. Watch it again.

Where did I say Ireland were a better side that day? I said Ireland's forwards were better.

No I dont think it was a hammering at all. It was a very competitive game. You watch it again.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:38 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes looked it up ebop. As did you and you helpfully copied some of the synonyms.  As I said not inflammatory unless you you class nz as unbeatable.
Ok no problem 7.5

I think we've rinsed this one out to its logical conclusion

Disagreement
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:39 am

I'm not sure you can logically disagree with a definition that even you yourself posted but fair enough!

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:41 am

Yeah you can

Because you saw the list of synonyms right?
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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:44 am

Yes guns it was a competitive game
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:45 am

I'm going to move on as you know you posted attainable the same as myself but want to see it as a slap in the face for some reason.

You think that nz could get rattled again as they were following the 1st ireland test? It's an area of possibility for me especially with read carrying an injury currently.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:47 am

ebop wrote:Yes guns it was a competitive game

Do you know what the ABs lowest winning margin in 2016 was prior to that game and what their average winning margin was?

Their lowest was 19 points and most other wins were well above that. Those games were hammerings.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:48 am

Nah, not off the top of my head

Do you know?
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:49 am

ebop wrote:Nah, not off the top of my head

Do you know?

Yes see above.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:52 am

Ok, I feel bad

I'll redact hammering and pummelled from my posts above out of respect to the game because I thought it was a good tough game
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 11:54 am

Haha success! Although I dont want you to feel bad. Now I feel bad.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:00 pm

Lol, think I got em Wink
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:02 pm

ebop wrote:Lol, think I got em Wink

typical sneeky Kiwi tactics.

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Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You think that nz could get rattled again as they were following the 1st ireland test? It's an area of possibility for me especially with read carrying an injury currently.
What situations are you referring to 7.5?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:24 pm

The physicality decision making around that etc. Seemed to miss some of those older heads that had retired.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:40 pm

NZ team of the week
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11856868

1. Joe Moody (Crusaders)
2. Codie Taylor (Crusaders)
3. Owen Franks (Crusaders)
4. Luke Romano (Crusaders)
5. Tom Franklin (Highlanders)
6. Like Pete Samu (Crusaders)
7. Matt Todd (Crusaders) - Forward of the Week. Honourable Mention Ardie Savea (Hurricanes)
8. Jordan Taufau's (Crusaders) Honourable Mention Akira Ioane (Blues)

9. TJ Perenara (Hurricanes)
10. Richie Mo'unga (Crusaders) - Back of the Week.
11. Reiko Ioane (Blues)
12. Ngani Laumape (Hurricanes) Honourable Mention Ryan Crotty (Crusaders)
13. Jack Goodhue (Crusaders) Honourable Mention Malakai Fekitoa (Highlanders)
14. Seta Tamanivalu (Crusaders)
15. David Havili's (Crusaders) Honourable Mention Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes)
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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The physicality decision making around that etc. Seemed to miss some of those older heads that had retired.
Sorry still don't get what you mean

Are you talking about the game in Dublin?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:41 pm

Yeah.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:45 pm

You reckon the ABs were rattled in Dublin. Because they tackled their hearts out and defended their line and didn't allow any tries in? Or are you referring to something else?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:48 pm

No more the massive up in their physicality which was boiling over at times. As per my 1st post sometimes right up to the line sometimes over. Going/having to go that close could cost teams depending the ref and what they/assistants and tmo see. Just wondered your view on it.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by ebop on Tue 16 May 2017, 12:59 pm

Ah ok fair enough

Yeah it was a tough test and losing to Ireland for the first time ever stung them no doubt. Some of the things said about the team after the loss weren't very complimentary. So yeah, they came out pretty hot. They played like a team that didn't want to be the first and second team to ever lose to Ireland. I don't reckon they were rattled though. But I doubt that test signifies how they'll play every game. They generally play with a bit of spice but aim for accuracy first and foremost. If players are liabilities and costing the team they won't be around for long.

If the Lions won the first test you may see a similar response in test 2 but it'd probably depend on the game, how it was played, if they let themselves down and how the public, ex-coaches and ex-players responded. Probably no different from any team in a similar situation really. Our players won't back down if the Lions bring the heat. And if the Lions do, they'll need to be careful themselves.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 1:02 pm

Yup. A lot as ever rests on that 1st test.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 16 May 2017, 1:34 pm

Would love to go to this series. New Zealand seems like a great place altogether. Why have I never been there?

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:00 pm

Aaron Cruden named to start for the Chiefs in Suva after recovering from concussion.

Sadly Charlie Ngatai (who made his return for the Chiefs' last match after a year out due to concussion) has been rested this weekend as a precaution after developing a headache post-training yesterday
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:09 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Would love to go to this series. New Zealand seems like a great place altogether. Why have I never been there?

 Very high standards at the border, general riff raff are turned away.

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Re: All Blacks' (likely) Squad Fitness (form?) Updates

Post by emack2 on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:55 pm

Ngati,Scott Barrett,Matt Todd,injured Cruden,Dagg,Sopanga,SBW fit.
Ireland achieved a great victory by scoring a lot of tries early,out
playing the selected AB side.BUT despite being thoroughly on top
the result was in doubt till late in the game.
The second game was never going to be an Ireland win,AB`s lose
certainly but learn from their errors and correct them.The stats
are meaning less possession etc usually only 40 per cent.
BUT that is enough to win most games given there firepower behind.
Dictionaries don`t win matches teams do,despite injuries you only
have to look at theNZ Super sides and ITM to see depth is still there.
NZ are the most penalised/yellow carded of all tier 1 sides it doesn't
stop them winning though.
Vulnerable in the First Test always but they seldom lose it at home
only in goal kicking are they inferior,forwards at least equal,backs
superior if only used to home conditions.
There for the taking if had a pound for every time that's been said
I`d be a rich man

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