Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

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Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 02 May 2017, 2:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

The pools for the 2019 rugby world cup will be drawn on the 10th May 2017 in Kyoto. Next Wednesday.

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams, New Zealand (1),  England (2),  Australia (3),  Ireland (4)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams Scotland (5),  France (6),  South Africa (7),  Wales (8)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams Argentina (9),  Japan (11),  Georgia (12),  Italy (15)

The remaining two bands will be made up of the eight qualifying seeds, with allocation to each band being based on the previous Rugby World Cup playing strength:
Band 4:
Americas 1, Europe 1, Oceania 1, Oceania 2
Band 5:
Africa 1, Americas 2, Europe/Oceania play-off, Repechage

Not sure how soon after the draw will the venues for each pool game be confirmed but hopefully soon enough.

Final Draw:
Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1 (Romania)
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1 (Namibia)
Repercharge Winner


Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA?)
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)
Americas 2 (Canada)


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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by whocares on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:49 am

It will certainly be a big test to England strength in depth. I think it didn't help Ireland chances in their QF against Argentina that there were missing key players that got injured against France.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by robbo277 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:50 am

Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.

Scotland have failed to progress from their pool once (in 2011). I think that time they were ranked as third seed as well, and went out to England and Argentina.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:51 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.

Scotland have failed to progress from their pool once (in 2011). I think that time they were ranked as third seed as well, and went out to England and Argentina.

Yeah but if you ignore facts im right

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:51 am

It's only in this thread that I'm starting to think that the SH's (NZ aside) dominance of the sport has peaked. Am I right or wrong?

NZ are obviously the best in the world and as far as I can see will continue to be so for the forseeable future. However Australian and South African rugby is in a crisis at best and in terminal decline at worst.

However in the NH, England playing very well, Ireland having some of the best player depth in the world, France starting to recover from their slump, Scotland discovering some winning ways and Wales always not far away has the NH closed the gap on the SH.

Ireland have recently beaten NZ, and to be honest I'd fancy England's chances against NZ too.

What I'm trying to say is do we think that there has been a shift in dominance over the Southern and Northern hemispheres in terms of rugby.

Just a couple of seasons ago I'd say the gap was widening. Now I'd say the gap is either very close or closed all together.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:51 am

Cyril wrote:News just in...

Wayne Barnes has been penciled in to ref Ireland vs Scotland and NZ vs SA.

Unlikely, Barnes has only once reffed Ireland v Scotland but that did predictably result in a Scotland win.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:52 am

whocares wrote:It will certainly be a big test to England strength in depth. I think it didn't help Ireland chances in their QF against Argentina that there were missing key players that got injured against France.
Injured and one suspension (SOB)

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by miaow on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:52 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
BamBam wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

Ireland have never lost to Japan but they are a much better side now. Genius move by the IRFU to schedule a 2 match tour to Japan this summer. All will be revealed then.

Aren't you all but guaranteed to be facing NZ or SA in the quarter finals though?

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:54 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.

Scotland have failed to progress from their pool once (in 2011). I think that time they were ranked as third seed as well, and went out to England and Argentina.

Aye, back in your box gooseberry. kiss
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:54 am

Alternative facts and Fake news Very Happy

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:55 am

miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
BamBam wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

Ireland have never lost to Japan but they are a much better side now. Genius move by the IRFU to schedule a 2 match tour to Japan this summer. All will be revealed then.

Aren't you all but guaranteed to be facing NZ or SA in the quarter finals though?

Not necessarly. SA lost to Italy in their last match against them.

In any case Ireland have a good record v SA. Last 10 games 5 wins a piece.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by ebop on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:56 am

robbo277 wrote:NZ are in danger of being under-cooked if South Africa don't get their act together between now and then though.
The ABs learnt a massive lesson in 2007 about taking things for granted. One thing they did in 2015 was deliberately limit their game plan against certain teams to keep the players on their toes. For example, against Georgia the ABs didn't kick the ball away in certain situations but rather held onto it, got smashed and put unecessay pressure on themselves. It was an ugly game but the players engineered pressure situations.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:59 am

ebop wrote:
robbo277 wrote:NZ are in danger of being under-cooked if South Africa don't get their act together between now and then though.
The ABs learnt a massive lesson in 2007 about taking things for granted. One thing they did in 2015 was deliberately limit their game plan against certain teams to keep the players on their toes. For example, against Georgia the ABs didn't kick the ball away in certain situations but rather held onto it, got smashed and put unecessay pressure on themselves. It was an ugly game but the players engineered pressure situations.

They've got a stronger chance of a competitive game from them than they would have from anyone else in pot 2 than Aus.

You could say that NZ are near permanently undercooked at the moment hardly ever getting pushed by anyone.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by ebop on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:59 am

Ireland pushed us to the edge and won a game
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by beshocked on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:00 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:It's only in this thread that I'm starting to think that the SH's  (NZ aside) dominance of the sport has peaked. Am I right or wrong?

NZ are obviously the best in the world and as far as I can see will continue to be so for the forseeable future. However Australian and South African rugby is in a crisis at best and in terminal decline at worst.

However in the NH, England playing very well, Ireland having some of the best player depth in the world, France starting to recover from their slump, Scotland discovering some winning ways and Wales always not far away has the NH closed the gap on the SH.

Ireland have recently beaten NZ, and to be honest I'd fancy England's chances against NZ too.

What I'm trying to say is do we think that there has been a shift in dominance over the Southern and Northern hemispheres in terms of rugby.

Just a couple of seasons ago I'd say the gap was widening. Now I'd say the gap is either very close or closed all together.


A lot can change in a year or two.

In RWC 2015, the SH sides dominated.

We'll see if the gap has closed in RWC 2019.

Fortunes can be reversed.

Just because some of the SH sides are struggling now doesn't mean they will in 2019.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by IanBru on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:01 am

Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.

Scotland have failed to progress from their pool once (in 2011). I think that time they were ranked as third seed as well, and went out to England and Argentina.

Yeah but if you ignore facts im right

To quote the truly great Stewart Lee: "You can prove anything with facts, can’t you?"
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:05 am

Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.

Scotland have failed to progress from their pool once (in 2011). I think that time they were ranked as third seed as well, and went out to England and Argentina.

Yeah but if you ignore facts im right

So Warren Gatland does have a 606v2 Account! laughing
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by miaow on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:06 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
BamBam wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

Ireland have never lost to Japan but they are a much better side now. Genius move by the IRFU to schedule a 2 match tour to Japan this summer. All will be revealed then.

Aren't you all but guaranteed to be facing NZ or SA in the quarter finals though?

Not necessarly. SA lost to Italy in their last match against them.

In any case Ireland have a good record v SA. Last 10 games 5 wins a piece.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I think the likelihood of Italy beating SA- even with O'Shea and SA's current decline- is all but impossible, but it's definitely something to hope for. In any case, it's still worth topping the group, as although a NZ QF almost guarantees the end of your competition, as you say, SA is less so. It's just very disappointing for Ireland, to be a top seed, and to have received an 'easy' group, yet the QF opponents that await them mean their pathway to the SFs looks incredibly difficult.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by robbo277 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:07 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:It's only in this thread that I'm starting to think that the SH's  (NZ aside) dominance of the sport has peaked. Am I right or wrong?

NZ are obviously the best in the world and as far as I can see will continue to be so for the forseeable future. However Australian and South African rugby is in a crisis at best and in terminal decline at worst.

However in the NH, England playing very well, Ireland having some of the best player depth in the world, France starting to recover from their slump, Scotland discovering some winning ways and Wales always not far away has the NH closed the gap on the SH.

Ireland have recently beaten NZ, and to be honest I'd fancy England's chances against NZ too.

What I'm trying to say is do we think that there has been a shift in dominance over the Southern and Northern hemispheres in terms of rugby.

Just a couple of seasons ago I'd say the gap was widening. Now I'd say the gap is either very close or closed all together.

I think it's certainly interesting.

I think for so long the Southern Hemisphere was the knowledge hub. They had a lot of very good players and very good coaches interacting on a regular basis in Super Rugby and the Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship.

At times they were playing a different game to what we were playing up here.

A lot of those ideas have now filtered up, with SH coaches and players involved in both the International and club games. I think our native players as well have had to improve their skill levels to compete.

Now that we have tapped into the knowledge base down south, our superior resources will help us improve to perhaps surpass Australia and South Africa, who were perhaps feeding more off NZ's innovations.

For a team with smaller resources, they will have to keep innovating tactics or game play to stay ahead. NZ are good at that because the country breathes rugby. Other teams are often playing catch-up. Whereas Australia and South Africa had a head start over the Northern Hemisphere, that head start is being eroded.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by miaow on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:14 am

I think you're right, robbo, but I'd be hesitant to declare any sort of seismic shift. The Aviva Premiership has improved massively in the last 4-5 years, due in no small part to an influx in talent- on and off the field. But it takes a while for that to filter down. It's only really the 'top' layer that is peaking. As we've seen in Wales, you can have a competitive test team, but then a significant gap in standard and ability to the regions, and then an even bigger gap to the clubs.

The SH has an identity- it's in the culture. Whilst that might not be important, the net result is that it produces a standard of rugby player than is generally better than the NH due to the 'better' standard of coaching and competition. Systemic problems may be hindering Australia and South Africa respectively, and in different ways, but as long as the NH plays 'catch up', they'll never surpass the SH. As long as it's 'learning' from the SH- which is necessary, and good- and not developing their own culture from top to bottom that is either different enough to compete on a level footing with the SH, or (much harder) simply surpasses them on skill and effort alone, the SH will always be a few steps ahead, even if- from time to time, as we see now- the test teams of, say, England and Ireland are better than South Africa, and perhaps Australia, too.

England and France are, really, the only two countries that can compete, and I don't see it happening any time soon on a long term, systemic basis. Their test teams may well do so, but it'll still be 'catch up'. When the poorer SANZAAR teams sort their structures out, their individual cultures will start pushing them back up the rankings.

South Africa will probably be the second best team in the world again by the world cup, in my opinion. Australia will also 'get it right', and probably be the 3rd to 5th best team, even if there does feel something a bit terminal with the decline in their Union game.


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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:15 am

Useless trivia time:

The last time England lost to Argentina and France in the same season was 1997 (France in the Five Nations, Argentina on tour during a Lions year). I think that might also be the only time.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:22 am

miaow wrote:

Yeah, that's fair enough. I think the likelihood of Italy beating SA- even with O'Shea and SA's current decline- is all but impossible, but it's definitely something to hope for. In any case, it's still worth topping the group, as although a NZ QF almost guarantees the end of your competition, as you say, SA is less so. It's just very disappointing for Ireland, to be a top seed, and to have received an 'easy' group, yet the QF opponents that await them mean their pathway to the SFs looks incredibly difficult.

I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play SA than England, Wales, NZ or Australia in the quarters so I dont think its that bad. I think Ireland will be doing well to avoid Argentina too.

Ireland have as good a chance if not better of beating SA in the quarters as anyone I reckon. To win a quarter final you probably have to beat one of the top 8 sides in the world. at the moment they are:

New Zealand
England
Australia
Ireland
Scotland
France
South Africa
Wales

Obviously we cant get Scotland so Id say the only side easier than SA would be possibly France.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:28 am

South Africa aren't going to sort out their numerous problems any time soon, there's a lack of direction caused by not having good enough players at the moment, Ireland are likely to improve more before the world cup than they are.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by miaow on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:31 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play...

Yes, on current form. But the RWC is in two and a half years' time. I cannot see the current standing of teams being the case then, to be honest. We're midway through a rebuilding cycle- this is when teams are likely to start getting it together. Predictions based on the form of teams only really start becoming relevant in 18 months' time. I'll be amazed if South Africa aren't the second best team in the world by the time the competition begins.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by miaow on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:34 am

I disagree. I read a statistic a while ago detailing the number of capped Springboks playing abroad. It was ridiculous. Several team teams lost overseas, which in turn severly decreases the quality of their domestic teams.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:35 am

I'd be amazed if they're ahead of nz england and Ireland. Those 3 should still be very strong and all have some great youngsters who if they are integrated well will keep them on top.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:39 am

miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play...

Yes, on current form. But the RWC is in two and a half years' time. I cannot see the current standing of teams being the case then, to be honest. We're midway through a rebuilding cycle- this is when teams are likely to start getting it together. Predictions based on the form of teams only really start becoming relevant in 18 months' time. I'll be amazed if South Africa aren't the second best team in the world by the time the competition begins.

Its unlikely that they will be the second best team in the world by then given that they dont seem to be getting any better and are unlikely to have a new coach between now and then. Even if they are Ireland have in the past defeated them when they were the number 1 ranked side in the world. Actually in '09 SA had dropped to 2nd when we beat them but had just won the RWC. They were also ranked 2nd in 2014 when we beat them.

One thing I will say though is Id SA are delighted with their group in so far as the team that gets NZ are guaranteed a tough pool game but normally have a very strong chance of coming 2nd at the very least. This also means that they cant meet NZ until the final. This is part of the reason why Argentina did well in 2015 I reckon.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Scottrf on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:43 am

miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play...

Yes, on current form. But the RWC is in two and a half years' time. I cannot see the current standing of teams being the case then, to be honest. We're midway through a rebuilding cycle- this is when teams are likely to start getting it together. Predictions based on the form of teams only really start becoming relevant in 18 months' time. I'll be amazed if South Africa aren't the second best team in the world by the time the competition begins.

I'll take that bet.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by robbo277 on Wed 10 May 2017, 11:50 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play...

Yes, on current form. But the RWC is in two and a half years' time. I cannot see the current standing of teams being the case then, to be honest. We're midway through a rebuilding cycle- this is when teams are likely to start getting it together. Predictions based on the form of teams only really start becoming relevant in 18 months' time. I'll be amazed if South Africa aren't the second best team in the world by the time the competition begins.

Its unlikely that they will be the second best team in the world by then given that they dont seem to be getting any better and are unlikely to have a new coach between now and then. Even if they are Ireland have in the past defeated them when they were the number 1 ranked side in the world.

One thing I will say though is Id SA are delighted with their group in so far as the team that gets NZ are guaranteed a tough pool game but normally have a very strong chance of coming 2nd at the very least. This also means that they cant meet NZ until the final. This is part of the reason why Argentina did well in 2015 I reckon.

World Cups are always interesting to properly look back on. You can have teams with completely different outlooks having very similar records.

E.g, looking at teams in the 2015 World Cup and there results against the "Top 9"
New Zealand: W4 (Australia, South Africa, France, Argentina)
Australia: W4 (Argentina, Scotland, Wales, England) L1 (NZ)
South Africa: W3 (Argentina, Wales, Scotland) L1 (NZ) *also lost to Japan - only team in Top 9 to lose to a nation below
Argentina: W1 (Ireland) L3 (South Africa, Australia, NZ)
Ireland: W1 (France) L1 (Argentina)
Wales: W1 (England) L2 (South Africa, Australia)
France: L2 (NZ, Ireland)
Scotland: L2 (Australia, SA)
England: L2 (Australia, Wales)

Looking at that analysis, you'd say there was definitely a top 3, a middle 3 and a bottom 3. But Argentina were more pleased with their performance than Ireland and Wales. Ireland and Wales in turn are on par with France and Scotland in terms of WC finish, while France and Scotland were happier with what they did than England were.

In truth you wouldn't say that any of the bottom 6 there had all that much to brag about at all, given the records, but they are all perceived as having very different tournaments with differing success levels.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:00 pm

I dont think Ireland's world cup was as disastrous as everyone made out. They performed well in all games except the most important one. However, we lost too many key players for this game and had just been completely beaten up by France the week before. Any team would struggle if they lost POM, POC, Sexton, Payne and SOB. Those were 5 of our key players and leaders.

However, we still won our group for the second time ever and beat France for the first time in Ireland's history at the world cup. Not what we wanted but not as bad as many make out.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:01 pm

robbo277 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
I dont really agree. On current form I'd rather play...

Yes, on current form. But the RWC is in two and a half years' time. I cannot see the current standing of teams being the case then, to be honest. We're midway through a rebuilding cycle- this is when teams are likely to start getting it together. Predictions based on the form of teams only really start becoming relevant in 18 months' time. I'll be amazed if South Africa aren't the second best team in the world by the time the competition begins.

Its unlikely that they will be the second best team in the world by then given that they dont seem to be getting any better and are unlikely to have a new coach between now and then. Even if they are Ireland have in the past defeated them when they were the number 1 ranked side in the world.

One thing I will say though is Id SA are delighted with their group in so far as the team that gets NZ are guaranteed a tough pool game but normally have a very strong chance of coming 2nd at the very least. This also means that they cant meet NZ until the final. This is part of the reason why Argentina did well in 2015 I reckon.

World Cups are always interesting to properly look back on. You can have teams with completely different outlooks having very similar records.

E.g, looking at teams in the 2015 World Cup and there results against the "Top 9"
New Zealand: W4 (Australia, South Africa, France, Argentina)
Australia: W4 (Argentina, Scotland, Wales, England) L1 (NZ)
South Africa: W3 (Argentina, Wales, Scotland) L1 (NZ) *also lost to Japan - only team in Top 9 to lose to a nation below
Argentina: W1 (Ireland) L3 (South Africa, Australia, NZ)
Ireland: W1 (France) L1 (Argentina)
Wales: W1 (England) L2 (South Africa, Australia)
France: L2 (NZ, Ireland)
Scotland: L2 (Australia, SA)
England: L2 (Australia, Wales)

Looking at that analysis, you'd say there was definitely a top 3, a middle 3 and a bottom 3. But Argentina were more pleased with their performance than Ireland and Wales. Ireland and Wales in turn are on par with France and Scotland in terms of WC finish, while France and Scotland were happier with what they did than England were.

In truth you wouldn't say that any of the bottom 6 there had all that much to brag about at all, given the records, but they are all perceived as having very different tournaments with differing success levels.

I'm presuming "happier" is a relative term. I was emotionally flabbergasted at the conclusion of that Australia vs Scotland game. The last time I felt so distressed after a rugby match was that Wales vs Scotland 6N game in 2010.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:09 pm

Pools by current world ranking:

Pool A
Ireland  4
Scotland 5
Japan 11
Europe 1 (Romania) 16
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga) 14

Pool B
New Zealand 1
South Africa 7
Italy 15
Africa 1 (Namibia) 19
Repercharge Winner ?


Pool C
England 2
France 6
Argentina 9
Americas 1 (USA?) 17
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga) 13

Pool D
Australia 3
Wales 8
Georgia 12
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga) 10
Americas 2 (Canada) 22

On that basis New Zealand really do have a push over group, and England  the worst draw of the pool 1 teams, pulling the second strongest pot 2 and strongest pot 3 teams.

Wales potentialy face difficult games from the best of oceania (who they have a habit of losing to) and Georgia who are currently only ranked four places behind them. Aus would expect to beat them. In terms of who they could have drawn its really not a great pool for them at all.


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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:11 pm

How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:14 pm

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Must be something to do with Brexit.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:15 pm

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:21 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy

Well Ireland have won their last two RWC groups which have included France and Australia.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:25 pm

Mike Brown is going to be pretty ticked off today.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:26 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Mike Brown is going to be pretty ticked off today.

Well thats pretty much his default mood.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

It's a global conspiracy to give to give you something else to whinge about of course Wink

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:28 pm

Does seem that way Pete, we all know the Argies work on a four year cycle and France are unpredictable as ever.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Cyril on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:41 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
BamBam wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

Ireland have never lost to Japan but they are a much better side now. Genius move by the IRFU to schedule a 2 match tour to Japan this summer. All will be revealed then.

Aren't you all but guaranteed to be facing NZ or SA in the quarter finals though?

Not necessarly. SA lost to Italy in their last match against them.

In any case Ireland have a good record v SA. Last 10 games 5 wins a piece.
The worry for Ireland is that they weren't able to win a test series in SA even when they (SA) were an absolute rabble.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:05 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:South Africa aren't going to sort out their numerous problems any time soon, there's a lack of direction caused by not having good enough players at the moment, Ireland are likely to improve more before the world cup than they are.

All the good South Africans are playing for Ireland and Scotland. Laugh

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:South Africa aren't going to sort out their numerous problems any time soon, there's a lack of direction caused by not having good enough players at the moment, Ireland are likely to improve more before the world cup than they are.

All the good South Africans are playing for Ireland and Scotland. Laugh

Still managed to beat your lot without a single south african born player in the side. kiss
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:53 pm

Cyril wrote:
The worry for Ireland is that they weren't able to win a test series in SA even when they (SA) were an absolute rabble.

Thats one way of looking at it. Another way is Ireland and NZ were the only teams to win a game in SA. Both Argentina and Australia lost there in 2016.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:54 pm

Best possible draw for Ireland!

Ireland's biggest problem is that they have very limited playing resources and there is a massive drop off in quality from the first choice team. Being in a group with teams that are also challenged numbers-wise should make for a less bruising pool stage. Scotland and Japan are playing a faster less powerful game than most of the pot 2&3 teams so that should help keep the injury count lower as well. Ireland will be favourites to beat Japan, and so could look forward to the quarters with potentially the highest proportion of their squad available ever. If that is the case Ireland will give anyone a game in the knock-outs.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by munkian on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:58 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Best possible draw for Ireland!

Ireland's biggest problem is that they have very limited playing resources and there is a massive drop off in quality from the first choice team. Being in a group with teams that are also challenged numbers-wise should make for a less bruising pool stage. Scotland and Japan are playing a faster less powerful game than most of the pot 2&3 teams so that should help keep the injury count lower as well. Ireland will be favourites to beat Japan, and so could look forward to the quarters with potentially the highest proportion of their squad available ever. If that is the case Ireland will give anyone a game in the knock-outs.

I don't follow the logic, Sexton, Zebo and Murray are usually injured by a strong breeze, I don't think who you play will make much difference.
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by Gwlad on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:11 pm

Argentina and France then

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:11 pm

Dont recall Murray having that many injuries. In any case all sides have injury prone players. Dont think Ireland are a special case.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:12 pm

Gwlad wrote:Argentina and France then

LordDowlais wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:South Africa aren't going to sort out their numerous problems any time soon, there's a lack of direction caused by not having good enough players at the moment, Ireland are likely to improve more before the world cup than they are.

All the good South Africans are playing for Ireland and Scotland. Laugh

This thread was actually doing really well until you goons showed up. picard
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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by IanBru on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:49 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:This thread was actually doing really well until you goons showed up. picard
Plus ca change, plus ca meme douchebags.


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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:59 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:South Africa aren't going to sort out their numerous problems any time soon, there's a lack of direction caused by not having good enough players at the moment, Ireland are likely to improve more before the world cup than they are.

All the good South Africans are playing for Ireland and Scotland. Laugh

Still managed to beat your lot without a single south african born player in the side. kiss

Laugh

Touche.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

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