UK General Election/Politics

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UK General Election/Politics

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed May 03, 2017 4:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here's a possible thread for it all, despite the lack of political input from me to start it!

Mods if you want to/can cut and paste the recent obviously political "discussions" from the Anything Goes, here might serve?


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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by beninho on Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:44 am

So the DUP, seem like a great bunch of lads and ladies. Homophobic Climate Change deniers.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:45 am

They're Irish Ben, what do you expect?

(by the way, I wish people would stop starting sentences with "So......")

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:01 am

So . . . . . .

Not looking good for POTUS's State visit - he'll have to find someone else to hold hands with.

Bernie's happy though; not quite sure whether his brother ran again.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:49 am

Heard that the evening standard had the line "Orange is the new blue".


Would it not be rather short sighted of the conservatives to offer anything official to the vile DUP? In the election where it looks like the youth finally went out and voted why would you cosy up to climate change denying homophobes?


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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:53 am

Mac, they couldn't form a government with anyone else.
This was always more likely than a Rainbow Coalition from Labour et al.

DUP don't recognise Westminster anyway, and don't take up their place in the HOP so it's effectively a Conservative government.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:02 pm

super_realist wrote:Mac, they couldn't form a government with anyone else.

She could offer Labour, SNP or lib dems an exceptionally good deal to enter into government.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:03 pm

Mac, Lab and Con would never enter into a deal, ditto SNP and Lib Dem said no to the possibility.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:07 pm

I know, I was just highlighting the pettiness of the situation. In many European countries such coalitions are common.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Mac, they couldn't form a government with anyone else.
This was always more likely than a Rainbow Coalition from Labour et al.

DUP don't recognise Westminster anyway, and don't take up their place in the HOP so it's effectively a Conservative government.

Pretty sure it's Sinn Fein that don't take their seats, DUP are all over recognising Westminster.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Mac, they couldn't form a government with anyone else.
This was always more likely than a Rainbow Coalition from Labour et al.

DUP don't recognise Westminster anyway, and don't take up their place in the HOP so it's effectively a Conservative government.

Pretty sure it's Sinn Fein that don't take their seats, DUP are all over recognising Westminster.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:20 pm

Diggers wrote:
super_realist wrote:Mac, they couldn't form a government with anyone else.
This was always more likely than a Rainbow Coalition from Labour et al.

DUP don't recognise Westminster anyway, and don't take up their place in the HOP so it's effectively a Conservative government.

Pretty sure it's Sinn Fein that don't take their seats, DUP are all over recognising Westminster.


Correct.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:21 pm

Diggers, yep super got it wrong. But give him some slack as he ins't exactly politically literate.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:56 pm

At least I'm literate Mac, which is more than can be said for you.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by beninho on Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:18 pm

This needs to be a time when politics grows up. Parties should work together to find common ground. Stop the soundbites and shouting each other down, and do the best for the UK.

Its a hope anyway.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by JAS on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:15 pm

I just find the sheer irony so poetic, Her two buzzphrases were "Strong and Stable" and "Coalition of Chaos" well it looks like she's going to demonstrate one of them for us!!

Then you have to think of the great lengths the right wing press went to to try and dig dirt on any Corbyn contact with IRA terrorists. I wonder if the same press will afford the same time and effort to Mays new coalition bedfellows. Think it would be a pretty safe bet there will be stronger connections between the DUP and the UDA, UVF, UFF etc. Our wonderful press now has a great opportunity to enter a new era of balanced and unbiased investigative reporting, will it take it I wonder!!!

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by navyblueshorts on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:21 pm

JAS wrote:I just find the sheer irony so poetic, Her two buzzphrases were "Strong and Stable" and "Coalition of Chaos" well it looks like she's going to demonstrate one of them for us!!

Then you have to think of the great lengths the right wing press went to to try and dig dirt on any Corbyn contact with IRA terrorists. I wonder if the same press will afford the same time and effort to Mays new coalition bedfellows. Think it would be a pretty safe bet there will be stronger connections between the DUP and the UDA, UVF, UFF etc. Our wonderful press now has a great opportunity to enter a new era of  balanced and unbiased  investigative reporting, will it take it I wonder!!!
Does make one laugh doesn't it? Laugh
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by puligny on Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:52 pm

How long does she have? Will it be worth investing in a sash to replace that clunky necklace she's been wearing. I am told the large chain represented strength, and it was to wash over us sublimally! Anyway I'm sure Arlene and co will represent stability for all - they've made such a good job of it in NI recently!!

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by puligny on Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Oops, Scottish Conservatives don't agree with any arrangement with DUP!

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:41 pm

I'm not sure why Labour are so happy, they still lost and if they think a coalition between the Tories and the Bible thumping abortion deniers of the DUP is better than the Tories on their own they are as mad as Diane Abbot.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:13 pm

Not sure anyone is in ecstasy Super. But from where Labour where at its good progress, I think Corbyns position is secure and hopefully (but not definitely) they can move on from here.
Basically, it was about as good a result as they could hope for. Equally, it was probably as bad as a result the Cons could envisage.
Nobody should be doing cartwheels though, apart from the DUP perhaps.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by SmithersJones on Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:04 pm

Seeing suggestions that the DUP alliance is against the GFA. Makes sense, but I doubt that it would bother that Kumquat May.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by dynamark on Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:43 am

PGA ET website knocked out my laptop!
I'm sure there is a member here who is delighted Salmond is out on his ear.
Plus Clegg spouting vitriol for last few weeks has gone
Nigel evans was spot on yesterday why on earth did May start having a pop in a very badly explained way at pensioners and older folk .20 years ago a lot of this group were loyal labour .They didn't need to say anything about fuel allowance or care and if they did it needed to be very well explained and specific.
Students and younger folk went for the cash bribe from Labour which doesn't give a lot of hope for the future.They seem a very fickle generation but do not have the experience of previous labour governments so it is partly understandable.
Not all is lost it could have been worse I wonder if the lost few days of the campaign may have been crucisl

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:33 pm

Fickle because they want to enjoy the same free education that my generation had? I, as did everyone i know, received free tuition plus a support grant. I left university with a £250 overdraft (though I did work 3 nights a week in a bar while I was there).
As far as I can see the politically fickle generation are much older, flitting from either Tory or labour to UKIP and back again.
May didn't need to say any of those things, it might have won a clear majority. Nevertheless, the policies and ideology remains. Look at the school meals debacle, not only is just a plain stupid idea, the costing was out by 90%, and that's before even taking into account the length of day and practicality.
The press chose to focus on gaffs made by Abbot (and there were a few). But that is a mistake when quoting figures (it happened lots with many politicians from both sides), not an actual mistake about the figures themselves. There is a massive difference in a wrongly costed policy and a misquote.
She ran an election on Brexit, but she wouldn't actually talk to us about Brexit, or talk to us about anything. Would not justify her fiscal spending, saying her govt did not need to held to account over the economy (a direct quote). Arrogant, arrogant, arrogant.
She repeated yesterday that her MP's didn't deserve to lose their seats? So,we as an electorate don't deserve to choose our MP's, it's a mistake when we change them? I honestly do not know who writes her speeches, but they must be on a massive kickback from Labour as they are appalling.
She's now trying to tell us we need a period of certainty, WTF! This from the a woman who has made 9 major u-turns.
I'm sorry, but when the only case that can be made to keep your job is a lack of any remotely credible alternative in your party, it's a pretty pathetic state of affairs.




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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:13 pm

dynamark wrote:PGA ET website knocked out my laptop!
I'm sure there is a member here who is delighted Salmond is out on his ear.
Plus Clegg spouting vitriol for last few weeks has gone
Nigel evans was spot on yesterday why on earth did May start having a pop in a very badly explained way at pensioners and older folk .20 years ago a lot of this group were loyal labour .They didn't need to say anything about fuel allowance or care and if they did it needed to be very well explained and specific.
Students and younger folk went for the cash bribe from Labour which doesn't give a lot of hope for the future.They seem a very fickle generation but do not have the experience of previous labour governments so it is partly understandable.
Not all is lost it could have been worse I wonder if the lost few days of the campaign may have been crucisl

Was your 606v2 account hacked when your laptop went down?
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:15 pm

Diggers, Let's remember it was Labour who brought us tuition fees in the first place.


This DUP appear to get nuttier by the minute. They almost make the Tories appear normal.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:53 pm

Super

Now that the conservatives have to get in cahoots with creationist nutters do you regret voting for them? Or are you confident the parties leader in Scotland will neautralise the nutterdom of the DUP?
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:05 pm

super_realist wrote:Diggers, Let's remember it was Labour who brought us tuition fees in the first place.


This DUP appear to get nuttier by the minute. They almost make the Tories appear normal.

I'm not really saying I back tuition fees, I'd means test personally if that's feasible. I just think DM is being a tad harsh calling a generation fickle for wanting a benefit that I and other generations did receive.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:38 pm

I'd think that fair too, and whilst I'm at it, I'm more than happy to pay for Eye Tests, Prescriptions and even £10 for a Doctors appointment.

I even know a guy who uses his winter fuel allowance to heat his snooker room, and another who uses it to fill up his Bentley. I think it's safe to say plenty things could be and should be means tested.

On another note, it's hard to think of anyone who looks more frightening than May, but the ghastly slug who is head of the DUP is quite the most repulsive woman I've ever seen in politics, including Ann Widdecombe. That's a terrible accolade to inherit AND she's even more of a loon.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:06 pm

She's no looker that's for sure.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:11 pm

Anyone else see another election before years end?

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Not sure May can risk it. She's increasingly a laughing stock, Corbyn's stock has risen. Quite a few lib dems could choose to vote tactically knowing there is a genuine chance to oust a Tory (for instance that would be realistic now in my constituency when it wasn't likely before).
Who knows though. It's a lottery, she's said she won't do surely the odds are she will.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:31 pm

Can't see the DUP coalition being anything other than a disaster. Can't see her getting the support of the Tories, so May will probably have to go.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:37 pm

That would make sense....but name a single alternative. Rudd? She's just May light.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:42 pm

I've heard perhaps David Davies, but there's a paucity of anyone decent in any party to lead Britain, and to think we laughed at Trump and Clinton.

It's a pity Ruth Davidson doesn't have a Westminster seat, she's been pretty impressive for a Tory, though that's maybe not too much of an accolade.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:56 pm

Surprised you could make a case for a porker SR. I agree though, she handles herself well (so to speak).
David seems like a nice enough bloke but he's no political heavyweight or intellect.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by SmithersJones on Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:28 pm

Boris is the alternative I've seen hinted at. So there's no real alternative!

The tories have spent the last few years desperately trying to keep their party together but isn't the reality that if they split into a far right and a centrist party they'd maintain power in one form or the other forever?
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:07 pm

This is one of the most despicable political interviews I have ever seen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40238454


Imagine not being able to just say the words "I fully support the rights of women and LGBTQ people" but instead just saying they don't have to support all the DUP policies. He failed to confirm which DUP policies he did/didn't agree with.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:31 am

When did it become LGBTQ Mac, or are you just being ultra PC.

You're right though, this bunch of anti gay, creationist, young earth freaks are even worse than the prospect of a Corbyn led government.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by MontysMerkin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:48 am

super_realist wrote:I'm not sure why Labour are so happy, they still lost and if they think a coalition between the Tories and the Bible thumping abortion deniers of the DUP is better than the Tories on their own they are as mad as Diane Abbot.
Super,
can't be arsed trawling through what I missed, but I would imagine it's taken most of the last weekend to get your foot out of your mouth re Corbyn.
The point of parliamentary politics (as I'm sure you're aware) is that a consensus is reached between 2 ideologies. So for labour to close the gap and haul the 'conversation' (ugh) back to the middle ground is all that is required. The fact that TM was trying to introduce caps on energy and make home owners pay for their care (bit commie for my liking) should be applauded.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:28 am

Why would I have to take my foot out of my mouth?

Did Corbyn win? Can he form a government? No. So what's to retract?

Yes, he did better than people thought, but he still did worse than Kinnock.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by beninho on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:33 am

Dianne Abbott was a laughing stock after her interview and mess ups on police numbers, but the funny thing is, that it made the policy known and people knew that Labour wanted to increase policing following Mays cuts. Probably would have meant nothing, but after the two terrorist attacks it brought the whole thing further into the open. You would assume the attacks would help May over Corbyn but it was probably the opposite.

May will carry on, the Tories will not want another election, and they have no one to take over, I saw Rudd mentioned, but do you make someone PM when they have a majority of 300 or so in their constituency. Thats a risk and would be a massive embarrassment if the standing PM gets voted out.

My take, is that that labour have had it as good as they can without getting back into Scotland in a big way, which looks difficult at the moment, another election may not be the same result.

I see Murdoch has his man, Gove, back into the cabinet. Its clear that May has no power, she has kept most of the same people in the jobs, so as not to upset anyone, she needs them all on her side!

Also like how the Tory MPs and supporters go on about percentage of vote, are they now keen on electoral reform, and a change of the FPTP system? Percentage of vote means little when its based on seats won.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:35 am

Super

You dodged my question a day or so about you voting Tory, any chance you would now confirm this or tell us who you voted for.

I went Lib dem. My seat was probably between Labour and SNP with no risk of a conservative win, therefore I took a punt on Lib Dem in the hope an anti Brexit MP got in. The greens did not put up a candidate in my area.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by MontysMerkin on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:44 am

super_realist wrote:Why would I have to take my foot out of my mouth?

Did Corbyn win? Can he form a government? No. So what's to retract?

Yes, he did better than people thought, but he still did worse than Kinnock.
picard Laugh Laugh Laugh
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:59 am

McLaren wrote:Super

You dodged my question a day or so about you voting Tory, any chance you would now confirm this or tell us who you voted for.

I went Lib dem.  My seat was probably between Labour and SNP with no risk of a conservative win, therefore I took a punt on Lib Dem in the hope an anti Brexit MP got in.  The greens did not put up a candidate in my area.

I didn't dodge your question at all. Are you short on memory? I told you that I have NEVER voted Tory.

I also didn't vote in this election as I've moved constituency and with the move didn't get round to registering.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:48 am

Diggers wrote:Surprised you could make a case for a porker SR. I agree though, she handles herself well (so to speak).
David seems like a nice enough bloke but he's no political heavyweight or intellect.
I'd probably suggest Ken Clarke in the interim, but given his pro-EU stance that's a non-starter.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:54 pm

Super

I asked again after last Thursday's vote, I just wondered if you got caught up in the Scottish rush to vote for the Tories.

I know you said you didn't vote but if you had voted (in both your old and new constituencies) which party would you have voted for?



It is pretty weird times when you have the SNP riding high but Scottish voters propping up a westminster Tory government.

This is the story that the national press seems to be missing. If Scotland had returned its usual "more pandas than Tories" result May would have been properly screwed.

I wasn't an SNP fan before but now that they have managed to lose seats to Tories in Scotland I am even less fond of them.
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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:10 pm

Gove back in the cabinet as Environment minister, the man who wanted to take climate change off the school curriculum. It's appointments like these that do you make you wonder about the whole concept of ministerial appointments. Just what kind of specialist knowledge is needed to run a govt dept - seemingly none. Gove, a journalist before a politician, appointed as Education, Justice and Environment minister. Not just him, but he makes a good example.
Interesting in France Macron promised that around half of his new MP's would be new to politics. So hopefully they end up with more women, younger people, entrepreneurs, a wider diversity of talent. Previously the demographic was largely middle aged or older white males, a lot of them career politicians.


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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by super_realist on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:12 pm

I would have voted Lib Dem Mac, the only alternative to SNP in the area.

The Tories wouldn't have been that screwed Mac, they'd still have more seats than Labour and Labour would still need a very unlikely Rainbow Coalition.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by Diggers on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:38 pm

Lid Dem was my old choice, can't really forgive the last coalition though, however well intentioned. Also Farron is the most devout god botherer of all of them, even more so than May. His personal beliefs on same sex marriage and abortion are pretty much extreme right wing. Fair enough he doesn't vote that way, but the fact he has those beliefs is enough to put me off him.

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Re: UK General Election/Politics

Post by McLaren on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:58 pm

Diggers

I totally agree with you on farron, but felt I wanted to vote for a party that opposed bee it. Sadly Labour/corbyn seem quite happy to let the tories have free reign over brexit.
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