Gat for NZ?

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Gat for NZ?

Post by Allty on Thu 04 May 2017, 9:11 am

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/id-love-to-beat-the-all-blacks-then-coach-them-mjlvjb90b

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 16 May 2017, 6:00 pm

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

Meh. Gatland's record vs the SH is pathetic compared with other countries with a similar world ranking to Wales over his tenure. And it's beating SA and Aus that matters in NZ, the 6N is a bit under the radar. That's why there's very little chance of Gatland walking straight into the NZ job without doing a Super Rugby stint first to show he can win NZ style vs our main opponents.
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Tue 16 May 2017, 6:06 pm

Yeah that is a problem and is Howley's fault. We've become too defense orientated and not attack focussed. I think he'll come back and win a S15 season and then coach the ABs after that. Hansen and Henry returned from stints with Wales to be RWC coaches, I expect the same from Gatland.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 1:36 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

Meh. Gatland's record vs the SH is pathetic compared with other countries with a similar world ranking to Wales over his tenure. And it's beating SA and Aus that matters in NZ, the 6N is a bit under the radar. That's why there's very little chance of Gatland walking straight into the NZ job without doing a Super Rugby stint first to show he can win NZ style vs our main opponents.

Either way isn't it likely he'd have required a S15 stint as that's how you guys do it down there? If the Lions somehow win this series then I can see Gats agreeing to end his Wales contract to take up the Cheifs role.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:25 am

Neither Henry or Hansen did that, its what the fans on here want but the last two coaches did their Wales coaching and then went into NZ as Head and Assistant coach, seems a common pattern to learn your international trade in Wales, make a hash of it and then get the big job. Of course Gats has been successful as Wales coach so apparently NZ requires him to go back into club rugby before taking up the big job. Makes sense.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by ebop on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:44 am

Has Gatland really been successful?

Not by any measure NZR would use
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:49 am

Well NZR doesn't take part in the greatest annual rugby tournament in the world and isn't part of the Lions, so as Gats has won 2 Grand Slams and lead a successful Lions tour, it doesn't take a genius to understand why NZR doesn't measure up.

clap cake


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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by ebop on Wed 17 May 2017, 7:23 am

A Super Rugby team called the Chiefs coached by Dave Rennie smashed the international team Wales coached by Gatland. So I guess Gatland has some experience with Super Rugby.
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:43 am

Gwlad wrote:Yeah that is a problem and is Howley's fault. We've become too defense orientated and not attack focussed. I think he'll come back and win a S15 season and then coach the ABs after that. Hansen and Henry returned from stints with Wales to be RWC coaches, I expect the same from Gatland.

Good job Howley's not involved with the Lions then ... Wink

Henry & Hansen had already had long NZ coaching stints before going North to learn how to coach "less-talented" players - Henry was in charge of one of the 2 finest club teams (hat-tip to London Welsh in the '70s) of all time at Auckland & the Blues in the '90s, then he did a year in Super Rugby after leaving Wales before getting the All Blacks' job. Hansen had 5 years in charge of Canterbury, and 7 years as AB's assistant coach before his stint in the top job.
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 17 May 2017, 9:07 am

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

 Yet they have superb results against Wales and the LIons, now how could this Be?

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 17 May 2017, 9:17 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

 Yet they have superb results against Wales and the LIons, now how could this Be?

Henry won 11 games in a row with Wales - the "Great Redeemer". His mistake was selecting non-Welsh players for the Lions after a long time pumping up Welsh players' confidence by telling them they were better than the guys who went on the Lions tour in '01, meaning he lost the dressing room. Judy learnt from that mistake in 2013 ...
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by ebop on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:05 am

Who's better, SCW or Gatland?

Two NH coaches that have coached the Lions
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed 17 May 2017, 11:03 am

Gwlad wrote:Yeah that is a problem and is Howley's fault. We've become too defense orientated and not attack focussed.

Sorry Gwlad but you can't do that. You can't give Gatland the credit for Wales's successes and Howley the blame for Wales's failures.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 3:11 pm

ebop wrote:Has Gatland really been successful?

Not by any measure NZR would use

I'm guessing you didn't read that article post Lions in 2013?

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 17 May 2017, 3:37 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
ebop wrote:Has Gatland really been successful?

Not by any measure NZR would use

I'm guessing you didn't read that article post Lions in 2013?

Well done Judy on beating a very average Aussie team 2-1. NZ beat them 3-0 that year too, & SA beat them 2-0

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 3:42 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
ebop wrote:Has Gatland really been successful?

Not by any measure NZR would use

I'm guessing you didn't read that article post Lions in 2013?

Well done Judy on beating a very average Aussie team 2-1. NZ beat them 3-0 that year too, & SA beat them 2-0


So they equalled the 2 best teams in the world at the time then. kiss

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:06 pm

The coach who must be in for a big shout when it comes to any future vacant All Black coach positions is Razor Robinson, maybe mad as a cut snake but he knows his Rugby and has a real brotherhood rapport with his players.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:29 pm

Gwlad wrote:Well NZR doesn't take part in the greatest annual rugby tournament in the world and isn't part of the Lions, so as Gats has won 2 Grand Slams and lead a successful Lions tour, it doesn't take a genius to understand why NZR doesn't measure up.


clap cake

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:50 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well NZR doesn't take part in the greatest annual rugby tournament in the world and isn't part of the Lions, so as Gats has won 2 Grand Slams and lead a successful Lions tour, it doesn't take a genius to understand why NZR doesn't measure up.


clap cake

Poor old Judy. Some people find they have to leave their homeland just because they're not appreciated
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:28 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:The coach who must be in for a big shout when it comes to any future vacant All Black coach positions is Razor Robinson, maybe mad as a cut snake but he knows his Rugby and has a real brotherhood rapport with his players.

Who's that guy? His name suggests he'd be an awesome coach.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 6:30 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well NZR doesn't take part in the greatest annual rugby tournament in the world and isn't part of the Lions, so as Gats has won 2 Grand Slams and lead a successful Lions tour, it doesn't take a genius to understand why NZR doesn't measure up.


clap cake

Poor old Judy. Some people find they have to leave their homeland just because they're not appreciated

Or to earn a 6 figure salary which isn't possible somewhere like NZ. I've also noticed that you're residing in the U.K. Wink

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 7:54 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well NZR doesn't take part in the greatest annual rugby tournament in the world and isn't part of the Lions, so as Gats has won 2 Grand Slams and lead a successful Lions tour, it doesn't take a genius to understand why NZR doesn't measure up.


clap cake

Poor old Judy. Some people find they have to leave their homeland just because they're not appreciated

Or to earn a 6 figure salary which isn't possible somewhere like NZ. I've also noticed that you're residing in the U.K. Wink

Laugh clap Yahoo

In NZ they pay in sheep. Probably why all their RWC winning coaches come to Wales.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:04 pm

Pete why do you call him Judy....do you think that is funny?

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:07 pm

Gwlad wrote:Pete why do you call him Judy....do you think that is funny?

Pete spends the week writing Stephen Jones-like articles and banning wums, then partakes in the wumming.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Pete why do you call him Judy....do you think that is funny?

Pete spends the week writing Stephen Jones-like articles and banning wums, then partakes in the wumming.

He's an inspiration to us all.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:12 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
ebop wrote:Has Gatland really been successful?

Not by any measure NZR would use

I'm guessing you didn't read that article post Lions in 2013?

Well done Judy on beating a very average Aussie team 2-1. NZ beat them 3-0 that year too, & SA beat them 2-0


if they were so average surprised NZ only beat them 3-0

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:16 pm

ebop wrote:A Super Rugby team called the Chiefs coached by Dave Rennie smashed the international team Wales coached by Gatland. So I guess Gatland has some experience with Super Rugby.

Yeah he's come north now too, seems SH provincial rugby holds little challenge after a while, yet another NZ coach who comes up here to learn where he's at.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:20 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

 Yet they have superb results against Wales and the LIons, now how could this Be?

Henry won 11 games in a row with Wales - the "Great Redeemer". His mistake was selecting non-Welsh players for the Lions after a long time pumping up Welsh players' confidence by telling them they were better than the guys who went on the Lions tour in '01, meaning he lost the dressing room. Judy learnt from that mistake in 2013 ...

Henry failed at the big test though, despite my favorite win vs England in 99 he never even managed a triple crown, just not really up to the job and in my recollection very unpopular and brimming with overconfidence. And of course we know what a dreadful hash he made of the lions in 2001. Only Sir Clive has been worse. Strange after his success with the Blues though in a brand new competition, so feeling his way in the real thing - the 5 Nations - a step too far for him then. But I am super happy his 4 years international apprenticeship with Wales taught him everything about international rugby he needed to be deemed qualified to coach the All Blacks. Gats is a different beast with his 6 Nations and Lions record, the All Blacks would be lucky to have him.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Taylorman on Thu 18 May 2017, 5:18 am

Gwlad wrote:Good as, 30-3 ouch. Now that really is a grand slam.

See Hansen has come out with the excuses why Ireland beat NZ being the absence of this 3 top locks. And in true NZ style he makes no reference to how well Ireland played, its just about the absence of the locks and NZ played badly.

Hubris piled on hubris.

Yes, he learnt that hubris stuff in Wales, it was a necessary survival ploy of the time, making excuse after excuse, week after week.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Thu 18 May 2017, 5:24 am

Oh dear, you can't use hubris when you're losing because it means excessive pride and arrogance, what he displays now. For Wales he was regarded as an overweight taciturn outsider who was just a really bad coach. Try a thesaurus.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by ebop on Thu 18 May 2017, 7:24 am

Lol

2x RWCs to Hansen
1x RWC to Henry

I'm glad they kept their powder dry for the ABs and not waste it on Wales. Maybe they tried but Wales weren't up to it?

Gatland has played all his shots in the NH (which is not many) and if he had the gonads to coach a SR team he'd be found wanting as he's prone to be in NZ. Couldn't even beat the Chiefs with his international team.
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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:12 am

Gwlad wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Hansen, Henry and Gatland in their own right are all top International coaches, but what is consistent throughout their careers is that Wales were bloody useless.

You really are ignorant

Gatland is the NH most successful coach with Wales winning the GS 3 x under his leadership

Hansen and Henry were awful coaches with Wales and the Lions, its true

 Yet they have superb results against Wales and the LIons, now how could this Be?

Henry won 11 games in a row with Wales - the "Great Redeemer". His mistake was selecting non-Welsh players for the Lions after a long time pumping up Welsh players' confidence by telling them they were better than the guys who went on the Lions tour in '01, meaning he lost the dressing room. Judy learnt from that mistake in 2013 ...

Henry failed at the big test though, despite my favorite win vs England in 99 he never even managed a triple crown, just not really up to the job and in my recollection very unpopular and brimming with overconfidence. And of course we know what a dreadful hash he made of the lions in 2001. Only Sir Clive has been worse. Strange after his success with the Blues though in a brand new competition, so feeling his way in the real thing - the 5 Nations - a step too far for him then. But I am super happy his 4 years international apprenticeship with Wales taught him everything about international rugby he needed to be deemed qualified to coach the All Blacks. Gats is a different beast with his 6 Nations and Lions record, the All Blacks would be lucky to have him.


He made up for it 2005

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:28 am

I heard someone on a podcast the other day - can't remember who for the life of me - argue that Hansen & Henry have poorer records with Wales because Welsh rugby wasn't organized along NZ lines, and they never fully adjusted to the difference. Henry made recommendations about ways to give priority the national side, which eventually produced the foundation that Gatland has used.

The speaker argued NZ rugby is probably the best organized in the world, so a good coach can make the most of his talents within it. Of course, that's not to say that just anyone would be a good All Black coach

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:57 am

Gwlad wrote:Henry failed at the big test though, despite my favorite win vs England in 99 he never even managed a triple crown, just not really up to the job and in my recollection very unpopular and brimming with overconfidence.

Gwlad wrote:For Wales he (Henry) was regarded as an overweight taciturn outsider who was just a really bad coach.

They didn't call him the Great Redeemer because he was unpopular, Gwlad. Plus he was clearly not 'a really bad coach'.


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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 18 May 2017, 4:53 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:I heard someone on a podcast the other day - can't remember who for the life of me - argue that Hansen & Henry have poorer records with Wales because Welsh rugby wasn't organized along NZ lines, and they never fully adjusted to the difference. Henry made recommendations about ways to give priority the national side, which eventually produced the foundation that Gatland has used.

The speaker argued NZ rugby is probably the best organized in the world, so a good coach can make the most of his talents within it. Of course, that's not to say that just anyone would be a good All Black coach

 Dont worry RF we have plenty of coaches here who would rate no higher than mediocre, but the structure, the checks and balances are such that they dont get any higher than club level. One other thing that happens (speaking from experience in Auckland) is that we have players that will change clubs just to play under a particular coach, this causes the effect that the good coaches get all the good players and the the ordinary coaches get the ordinary players. the best judges of coaches are the players who are striving to be the best.

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Re: Gat for NZ?

Post by Gwlad on Thu 18 May 2017, 5:14 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:I heard someone on a podcast the other day - can't remember who for the life of me - argue that Hansen & Henry have poorer records with Wales because Welsh rugby wasn't organized along NZ lines, and they never fully adjusted to the difference. Henry made recommendations about ways to give priority the national side, which eventually produced the foundation that Gatland has used.

The speaker argued NZ rugby is probably the best organized in the world, so a good coach can make the most of his talents within it. Of course, that's not to say that just anyone would be a good All Black coach

 Dont worry RF we have plenty of coaches here who would rate no higher than mediocre, but the structure, the checks and balances are such that they dont get any higher than club level. One other thing that happens (speaking from experience in Auckland) is that we have players that will change clubs just to play under a particular coach, this causes the effect that the good coaches get all the good players and the the ordinary coaches get the ordinary players. the best judges of coaches are the players who are striving to be the best.

Ah, what a beautiful Utopian vision, its like the Stepford Wives of Rugby. laughing

Taylorman, for your education, this is an excellent example of NZ rugby hubris.

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