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Residency

Post by Allty on Wed 10 May 2017, 8:36 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39868065

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Re: Residency

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 10 May 2017, 8:39 am

Comes in at the end of 2020.....3 years from now.....watch unions go on a signing spree over the next few weeks. Wink

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 9:13 am

About friggin time.

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 9:41 am

Hallelujah!!!

Its not everything....but its a flippin start!

Grandparent rule next!! Please scrap!


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Re: Residency

Post by BamBam on Wed 10 May 2017, 9:42 am

Wonder how many imports we'll see by the end of December

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:20 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hallelujah!!!

Its not everything....but its a flippin start!

Grandparent rule next!! Please scrap!

Scotland would not have an international side without the grandparent rule. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:22 am

Has anybody been watching the Super 14's this season ?

Has anybody noticed the amount of Fijians/Samoans/Tongans in all the Australian franchises ?

The Australian team will be choc-a-block full of time servers by the time the next world cup comes along.

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:30 am

Technically Australia is a Polynesian island anyway isn't it?

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Re: Residency

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:Has anybody been watching the Super 14's this season ?

Has anybody noticed the amount of Fijians/Samoans/Tongans in all the Australian franchises ?


Is that actually true? A fair few players with PI heritage, but very few born in one of the islands as far as I can tell.

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Re: Residency

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:Has anybody been watching the Super 14's this season ?

Has anybody noticed the amount of Fijians/Samoans/Tongans in all the Australian franchises ?

The Australian team will be choc-a-block full of time servers by the time the next world cup comes along.

They've already got a fair few residency qualifieds
Pocock (Zim)
Quade (NZ)
Genia (PNG)
Timani (Tonga)
Kuridrani,(Fiji)
Naivalu (Fiji)
Speight (Fiji - his grandfather was Fiji president, his Dad was a cabinet minister until the 2006 coup d'etait & his uncle lead the failed 2000 coup)
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Re: Residency

Post by munkian on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:36 am

Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad
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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:36 am

Being serious, im glad to see they are aware of the issues of the 3 year eligibility.

5 years should help quite a bit, though might not stop some case like Solomana if he'd been in RL for a few years extra. But we can discuss that at the time.

I'd rather they had brought the rule in this summer, immediate effect.

It would be interesting to see what the likes of Nathan Hughes would have done. Would he have chosen one of the island teams like he should have in the first place!

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Re: Residency

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:45 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Being serious, im glad to see they are aware of the issues of the 3 year eligibility.

5 years should help quite a bit, though might not stop some case like Solomana if he'd been in RL for a few years extra. But we can discuss that at the time.

I'd rather they had brought the rule in this summer, immediate effect.

It would be interesting to see what the likes of Nathan Hughes would have done. Would he have chosen one of the island teams like he should have in the first place!

Probably not.

As explained by Kiwireddevil on another thread, many of these guys are more concerned about sending money back to their villages than representing their homeland for no (or even reduced) pay.

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Re: Residency

Post by profitius on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:54 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Comes in at the end of 2020.....3 years from now.....watch unions go on a signing spree over the next few weeks. Wink


Many people will have missed that point. So really nothing will change for years.
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Re: Residency

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 10 May 2017, 10:55 am

profitius wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Comes in at the end of 2020.....3 years from now.....watch unions go on a signing spree over the next few weeks. Wink


Many people will have missed that point. So really nothing will change for years.

It gives one last chance to create a batch of project players Very Happy

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 12:54 pm

LondonTiger wrote:It gives one last chance to create a batch of project players

I absolutely hate that phrase.

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:05 pm

munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

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Re: Residency

Post by BamBam on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:10 pm

Of course this ruling still also wont stop the likes of Waldrom and the latest Woodward having never set foot in a country yet being able to walk straight in to an international side.

This should be the next target! Stop the Granny / Grandad rule!


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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

No we wont. All the English players we have, have either lived here all their lives, or have Welsh parents, so we will be quite fine, but thanks for your concern. Very Happy

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Re: Residency

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:13 pm

The couple you tried for had more sense thankfully.

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:17 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:This should be the next target! Stop the Granny / Grandad rule!

You do that, and Scotland will be a second tier nation immediately. Scotland had 8 players in their squad for the 6N due to that ruling. They do not have the player base to sustain a decent national side without it.

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Re: Residency

Post by SD on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:17 pm

Changes to relevance of u20s too.....

In other interesting changes to Regulation 8, World Rugby will no longer allow national under 20s teams to be the next senior team below the Test team. This will mean under 20s doesn’t capture the eligibility of a player and he can still switch nations thereafter, if they’ve observed the 60 months or are eligible via a parent or grandparent.

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:20 pm

BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

Ill start the party now!!!

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Re: Residency

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:25 pm

So ld proposes that the parent rule is scrapped then!

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:32 pm

I think the rule I'd like investigated is the cross code malarkey.

If you have represented a country in one it should be the same if you cross over. Now I know they are classed as two different sports etc but to me there both rugby...its not like they are gymnastics and volley ball different.

They came from the same sport. They are interlinked.

So whilst T'eo does have an English mother...because he has played for another country in League, he should have to play for that country in Union.

Same with Solomana, and should have been for Henry Paul, Vainikolo , Hape etc etc in the past...and players like Brad Thorn etc etc

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:52 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think the rule I'd like investigated is the cross code malarkey.

If you have represented a country in one it should be the same if you cross over. Now I know they are classed as two different sports etc but to me there both rugby...its not like they are gymnastics and volley ball different.

They came from the same sport. They are interlinked.

So whilst T'eo does have an English mother...because he has played for another country in League, he should have to play for that country in Union.

Same with Solomana, and should have been for Henry Paul, Vainikolo , Hape etc etc in the past...and players like Brad Thorn etc etc

But they are different sports and League allows you to represent more than one country

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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 1:56 pm

Yes but its all bulls*1t Marty. And they're not massively different sports.

I don't want someone like Henry Paul who has played for NZ in rugby league suddenly putting on the England shirt. Its just wrong on all levels!

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:01 pm

Its not all cowpat

You are missing the point however, in RL guys like Henry Paul could have played for more than one country if they wished as the residency rules allow for it. The Burgess brothers could play for NZ in league even though they have played for England and GB


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Re: Residency

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:11 pm

Im not missing the point.

Its all BS...simple as that.

I don't want someone playing for England (a country they have lived in for a few years) when they have previously shown undying passion and pride playing for another country (the one they were born and raised in)

Its farcical!

And now we have to put up with f*4king Solomona !!!

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Re: Residency

Post by Scottrf on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

What would England do without Ben Te'o?!!
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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:15 pm

Writing to Farage, get him on the job sorting it for you Rolling Eyes

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:19 pm

Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

What would England do without Ben Te'o?!!

Or his English mother Rolling Eyes

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Re: Residency

Post by BamBam on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

What would England do without Ben Te'o?!!

Or his English mother Rolling Eyes

You mean to say Lord Bluster had his facts wrong? Who'da thunk it

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:24 pm

BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Ireland Crying or Very sad

Wales will be hard hit with all those Englishmen they have in their team

Agreed. When will they do something about the number of players who mysteriously find Welsh grannies at the drop of a hat

We only have one player qualified through grandparents. Try again. Rolling Eyes

All the other nations will be fecked though, no Ben Te'o's, or CJ Standers ect.

What would England do without Ben Te'o?!!

Or his English mother Rolling Eyes

You mean to say Lord Bluster had his facts wrong? Who'da thunk it

Yip and as a few Irish players have mentioned in recent times when asked about CJ Stander, he knows more of the Irish anthems than many born or raised on the island

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Re: Residency

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:25 pm

Not sure knowing songs is being considered by wr.

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure knowing songs is being considered by wr.

Its all part of the new residency rules, most people have missed it Whistle

It shows how Stander has bought into the whole thing though

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Re: Residency

Post by Cyril on Wed 10 May 2017, 2:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure knowing songs is being considered by wr.

Its all part of the new residency rules, most people have missed it Whistle

It shows how Stander has been bought into the whole thing though
Fixed that for you Wink

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:11 pm

It's all fecked up, the whole lot of it.

I can sort of understand British and Irish players interchanging, as the borders in the UK, between UK citizens mean feck all, there are loads of Welsh people who live in the English border cities as they work there, but do not consider themselves English, yet that should not mean that their kids should also consider themselves English as well. The same for the opposite, I know lots of English people who have moved to Monmouth, Newport, Cardiff but they do not consider themselves Welsh, nor do they consider their kids to be Welsh.

What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked

I am waiting for the day, when one of the home nations, is 1 to 15 full of SH players tempted up here at a young age by the richer unions offering ££££££'s. I have read some God awful stories regarding the French and Australian unions regarding this grooming type of circumstance.

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Re: Residency

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:13 pm

So its just youngsters. The Nathan Hughes for England. Francis realising he had a Welsh granny are fine? I think it's these instances people have am issue with a lot of the time.

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Re: Residency

Post by 123456789 on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:17 pm

Hmm fingers crossed Scotland start up a new franchise and fill it up with talented players on three year contracts. You wait Grand Slam 2020. It's on.

On a more serious point I hope the SRU use the money previously put assigned for "project players" and plough it into developing our academies. I imagine the total cost for all our residency players on wages, medical bills etc. tops 2 million pounds, that money could go along way in the grass roots.

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Re: Residency

Post by Gwlad on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:27 pm

Why don't we scrap the grandparent, parent and self eligibility rules, that way you can only play for a side you aren't eligible for in 10 years time unless you are a PI player and you can go to school in NZ tomorrow and be an All Black by Friday.

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Re: Residency

Post by 123456789 on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:38 pm

Gwlad wrote:Why don't we scrap the grandparent, parent and self eligibility rules, that way you can only play for a side you aren't eligible for in 10 years time unless you are a PI player and you can go to school in NZ tomorrow and be an All Black by Friday.

Please don't open that debate, every time someone does a New Zealander (quite rightly) points out that in general most "PI players" were born in New Zealand/ spent the vast majority of their schooling and rugby development in New Zealand.

Secondly on the grandparent rule I think a kind of points based system is the best way to go.

For example you need 100 points to play for a country.

Birth is 100 points
A Parent is 100 Points
A Grandparent is 50 points
Each year you live in that country is 20.

The problem is that nationality is a tricky concept, I was born in the South of England, lived the vast majority of my life in the South of England (all bar four-five years that I spent in Scotland), my accent does not sound even slightly Scottish, I've even voted Tory on several occasions (although I suppose that isn't a particularly unscottish thing these days) but both of my parents are Scottish, and all my Grandparents were Scottish. In fact as far as we can tell my older brother is the first member of the family on three sides who had been born outside of Scotland for several hundred years, and on the fourth it was over a hundred year. Throughout my entire life I have felt absolutely 0 allegiance to England whatsoever. I can say hand on heart that had I been good enough to warrant a call up from England for any sport I would have turned it down, not because of any dislike but because of sheer apathy. My parents never forced me to choose a side so I just went with how I felt, I have cousins and siblings in the exact same boat who went the opposite way. So when we sit and say David Denton isn't Scottish or Sean Maitland isn't Scottish it's very hard to say for certain how they feel, that isn't to say that the Afrikaaners Nel and Stander sat watching Scotland and Ireland and felt a deep emotional connection.

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Re: Residency

Post by Cyril on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

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Re: Residency

Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:48 pm

Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

Isn't that what Wales did with Anscombe?

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Re: Residency

Post by Gwlad on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:50 pm

Granny Anscombe sells needlework quilts in Merthyr.

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:51 pm

Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

It is all on the WWW. Check it. Players being brought over, and just being treated like slaves ect.

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Re: Residency

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:53 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

Isn't that what Wales did with Anscombe?

No, his mother is Welsh, WRU offered him a stack of £££££'s and he took it. It was not to fill a void as we already have Biggar, Patchell, Sam Davies to name a few.

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Re: Residency

Post by 123456789 on Wed 10 May 2017, 3:55 pm

Cyril wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What I take issues with, are unions who cherry pick players from countries 1000's of miles away to fill a void they have not plugged with homegrown talent with a view to capping them as soon as they are eligible. It's almost grooming. Shocked
Which unions do this? I know plenty of clubs offer big contracts to players, but which unions systematically draft in players? I'd imagine it's the nations where the unions have a vice-grip over their 'clubs'.

I'm ashamed to say Scotland did this with Nel, put it this way, it's not a coincidence that Nel became eligible around the time Euan Murray retired. It's a very deliberate process. Look at Scotland's depth behind Berghan. Pretty sure Ireland did it with Payne too. If you look at the countries that have project players in their national squads there tends not to be a lot of competition around those positions.

There's several allegations regarding France and the Pacific Islands, even a club setting up a Fijian academy. Not entirely sure on the specifics but I remember it appearing distinctly dodgy.

I wouldn't use the word slavery in the case of Scotland and Ireland but the French way, which I probably don't know quite enough about to make a concrete allegation, comes across very shady.

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