Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 17 - Almost Legal

[Hazel Sapling]

First topic message reminder :



Glasgow Warriors & Edinburgh

The Histories:

Guiness Pro 12
Edinburgh Rugby
Glasgow Warriors

Edinburgh Rugby Highlights 2016/2017
Glasgow Warriors Pro 12 Highlights 2016/2017  

[Majestic83]

Is Ihaia West not SQ? He's played for the Maori which might make him NZQ however...

I don't think there was ever any basis for that rumour other than the fact he was pale and ginger. Anyway aren't the AB U20s their second team (although he's played for them too...)? Maitland played for the Maori did he not?

NZ's official 2nd team is the Junior ABs (formerly known as NZ A). They haven't played a match since 2009, as the Maori tend to get given their fixtures. So effectively NZ doesn't have a 2nd team

Good to know. Do you know any good 10s with a Scottish Granny??

There's Marty McKenzie

Was he not in Back to the Future?

Time travel could be useful for a #10

I'm afraid we done went and capped Damien McKenzie mind

Unfortunately Marty McKeznie fell into the trap of getting some glory with NZ7s and played in one tournament i think so is tied to NZ as well.

James Lang at Harlequins might be worth a look, played for Scotland U16s and then Wales U18s, being talked about as pushing for a 1st team place this seaon.

Remember there is always Jade Te Rure as well, signed up to play NPC this season with Turbos. Could turn out to be another Piers Francis, shockingly bad for Edinburgh but world class for every other team.

[RDW]

OK for some fun (which, on this place, usually leads to a full scale argument) how about this for a hypothetical Townsend selected Lions squad if he was head coach (i.e. the polar opposite of Gatland), assuming full fitness from everyone. The aim here is great athletes who are skillful, hard working and able to play at tempo but with a brutal pack:

LH - Vunipola, McGrath, Marler
H - George, Brown, Owens
TH - Nel, Furlong, Sinkcler
L - Itoje, Kruis, Henderson, J Gray, Lawes, R Gray
6/8 - Faletau, Vunipola, Stander, Barclay, SoB, Robshaw
7 - Turiric, Watson, Van Der Flier

9 - Webb, Murray, Care
10 - Farrell, Russell, Sexton
12/13 - Taylor, Huw Jones, Henshaw, JJ, Ringrose
11/14 - Nowell, Watson, Seymour, Daly
15 - Hogg, Williams,


15 English
11 Scots
10 Irish
5 Welsh

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Is Ihaia West not SQ? He's played for the Maori which might make him NZQ however...

I don't think there was ever any basis for that rumour other than the fact he was pale and ginger. Anyway aren't the AB U20s their second team (although he's played for them too...)? Maitland played for the Maori did he not?

NZ's official 2nd team is the Junior ABs (formerly known as NZ A). They haven't played a match since 2009, as the Maori tend to get given their fixtures. So effectively NZ doesn't have a 2nd team

Good to know. Do you know any good 10s with a Scottish Granny??

There's Marty McKenzie

Was he not in Back to the Future?

Time travel could be useful for a #10

I'm afraid we done went and capped Damien McKenzie mind

Unfortunately Marty McKeznie fell into the trap of getting some glory with NZ7s and played in one tournament i think so is tied to NZ as well.

James Lang at Harlequins might be worth a look, played for Scotland U16s and then Wales U18s, being talked about as pushing for a 1st team place this seaon.

Remember there is always Jade Te Rure as well, signed up to play NPC this season with Turbos. Could turn out to be another Piers Francis, shockingly bad for Edinburgh but world class for every other team.

2 7s tournaments according to Wiki.

Marty Banks is off to Treviso so will probably be turning out for Italy in 3 years - don't think he's Scottish.

So of our #10 stocks,
Barrett - capped
Cruden - capped, off to France
Sopo'aga - capped
Mo'unga - NZ born, Samoa qualified, not Scottish
D McKenzie - capped
M Mckenzie - capped
Donald - capped
Banks - not Scottish, aging
Black - not Scottish
West - Possibly Scottish, new Hurricanes contract
Mitchell Hunt???
Perofeta - probably not Scottish
Hayden Parker ???
Gatland - not Scottish

Can't think of anyone else who's not worse than Garreth Anscombe

[RDW]

Edinburgh have tweeted their squad is now confirmed so looks like no more signings.

In preference order:

LH - Dickinson, Dell, Sutherland, Marfo
H - Ford, Cochrane, McInally, Turner
TH - Nel, Berghan, McCallum, Bryce
4 - Bresler, Mckenzie, Hunter-Hill
5 - Toolis, Gilchrist, Carmichael
6/8 - Du Preez, Bardbury, Mata, Fihaki, Miller
7 - Watson, Hardie, Ritchie

SH - SHC, Kennedy, Fowles
10 Weir, Tovey
12 - Burleigh, Dean, Rasolea
13 - Freaun, Bennett, Galbraith
W - Hoyland, Van Der Merve, Scholes, Brown, Graham, Harries
FB - Kinghorn, Bryce



So looking at that list we're very strong in the front 5, but still lacking class in the backs. We could have done with another big carrier in the backrow and it looks like we're going to rely on Bradbury, Ritchie and Miller stepping up (which is no bad thing).

10 is still a major issue but we're stuck with it so need to make the best of a bad situation.  

Freaun will add a lot of class at 13 and it's a real shame Bennett is injured for most of the season.

My first choice 23:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Bresler
5 Toolis
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 CDP

9 SHC
10 Weir  
11 Van der Merve (I'm hoping he's good)
12 Bureligh
13 Freaun
14 Hoyland
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Dell, Cochrane, Berghan, Gilchrist, Hardie, Kennedy, Tovey, Dean

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh have tweeted their squad is now confirmed so looks like no more signings.

My first choice 23:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Bresler
5 Toolis
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 CDP

9 SHC
10 Weir  
11 Van der Merve (I'm hoping he's good)
12 Bureligh
13 Freaun
14 Hoyland
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Dell, Cochrane, Berghan, Gilchrist, Hardie, Kennedy, Tovey, Dean

I'd probably put Sutherland on the bench ahead of Dell. Prior to his injury he looked like he was on the verge of overtaking Dicko as our starting LH. Now I have no idea what's going on with his injury as Edinburgh don't tell us anything, but assuming he comes back to the same level as before I would have him as challenging Dicko as starting LH.

Only other possible change is Turner for Cochrane, but that's just personal preference and nothing really in it, just he's younger and might be the longer term option behind Ford.

[RDW]

As I said to TJ on the Lions thread Dell is currently 1st choice as Dickinson and Sutherland have been injured all season.

Yes Sutherland started to look like he may be taking on Dickinson soon but he's got to build up his fitness and form again (as does Dickinson), and don't forget that Dell would have learned a hell of a lot from playing 10 internationals for Scotland this season (where he has acquitted himself very well). Professional sport is a brutal game - you're only one long term injury away from being at the bottom of the pecking order again and someone else taking your place.

There will certainly be plenty competition which is a very good thing!

[jimbopip]

Ah pre-season; always the best time to be a Luvvie. Hope is in the ascendant and reality hasn't crushed your dreams...yet.

I think you'll have a better side than last year, but that probably means you might just finish above the Dragons.

[EWT Spoons]

I wouldn't go that far Jimbo, we're all painfully aware that Weir is going to be our starting 10, so all hope is tempered by that. Also at fullback we have the painfully raw Kinghorn or Bryce who has so far barely justified the price of petrol from traveling down the M8.

RDW - I agree that Dell currently is 1st choice, but once one or both of Dickinson & Sutherland are back I'm not sure it will stay that way. I rate Dell, he's clearly a very good player and it's his jersey to lose, but I still think that he may slip down the pecking order once those two are fit. But as you say they need to show they deserve it.

[jimbopip]

Spoons, you do realise that somewhere in Ulan Bator someone is reading your post and thinking, "Edinburgh must be some side. Their third choice loose head is a British Lion. Not many sides can say that. And on a good night they have more fans than players at the Library."

[RuggerRadge2611]

Me watching the Lions thread

[cakeordeath]

Me watching the Lions thread

I have stayed away from that sh!te storm.

[jimbopip]

You should drop in Cakie, it's wonderful how they are about six months behind us. They have just reached the stage of criticising Frodo for having a slowish pass and a tendency to box-kick. By September they'll begin to rate him because he's a warrior and a leader. Similarly, they are starting to accept that Gatland isn't predisposed to picking players from beyond the wall. Top scorer on the tour? No thanks. Some are even beginning to think that there is a Welsh bias in Gatland's selections. As I say it's deja vu all over again.

Just wait, by Chrimbo they'll be starting a petition for a new coach; one who isn't biased against Scottish players, who wants to play fast dynamic attacking rugby, one who is not rigid in his selection or tactics, one who has a Tombola.

[RDW]

Ryan Grant speaks out about 2013 2nd test. The bit in bold really pisses me off - for Rowntree to say he hadn't seen enough of Grant (a mainstay for Scotland at test level at the time) is pure ignorance and really, really poor from Rowntree.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40437419

The Scot was named as a substitute for the second Test - which the Lions lost - but with starting loose-head Mako Vunipola tiring, he was not introduced, and left out of the squad for the series-deciding third international.

"It's a tough pill to swallow even now, to be so close and to really feel like the team could have benefited from me coming on," Grant added. "Mako was clearly wrecked and we were under the pump, and a bit of fresh legs would have benefited the team. It kind of made it a bit worse that the scrum wasn't going particularly well.

Mako Vunipola
Vunipola, pictured on this year's tour, started ahead of Grant in 2013
"I kind of avoided [forwards coach] Graham Rowntree for a few days after that because I was bitterly disappointed and if we spoke sooner, I would probably say something stupid.

"So I let it cool down for a couple of days, went and spoke to him, and he just kind of said to me that he hadn't seen enough of me and he wasn't sure he could trust me in a Test match like that, and it was the one they lost.

"I just had to say, 'listen, I totally disagree with you, and if you'd watched any of the Six Nations games you'd know I could handle myself, so we'll agree to disagree' - I don't think we've said a single word to each other since.

"Mako was cramping up and he was down every two minutes, so it was kind of an extra kick in the face. But it is what it is - it was four years ago now."

[BigGee]

I felt so annoyed about that at the time and so sorry for Ryan Grant, who fully deserved his chance. I still do now!

It may have been four years ago, but RG has never been the same player since. It really did effect him.

[cakeordeath]

You should drop in Cakie, it's wonderful how they are about six months behind us. They have just reached the stage of criticising Frodo for having a slowish pass and a tendency to box-kick. By September they'll begin to rate him because he's a warrior and a leader. Similarly, they are starting to accept that Gatland isn't predisposed to picking players from beyond the wall. Top scorer on the tour? No thanks. Some are even beginning to think that there is a Welsh bias in Gatland's selections. As I say it's deja vu all over again.

Just wait, by Chrimbo they'll be starting a petition for a new coach; one who isn't biased against Scottish players, who wants to play fast dynamic attacking rugby, one who is not rigid in his selection or tactics, one who has a Tombola.

It's as if we invented a time machine.

[IanBru]

Scotch Tub Time Machine?

I am so, so sorry.

[Ozzy3213]

OK for some fun (which, on this place, usually leads to a full scale argument) how about this for a hypothetical Townsend selected Lions squad if he was head coach (i.e. the polar opposite of Gatland), assuming full fitness from everyone. The aim here is great athletes who are skillful, hard working and able to play at tempo but with a brutal pack:

LH - Vunipola, McGrath, Marler
H - George, Brown, Owens
TH - Nel, Furlong, Sinkcler
L - Itoje, Kruis, Henderson, J Gray, Lawes, R Gray
6/8 - Faletau, Vunipola, Stander, Barclay, SoB, Robshaw
7 - Turiric, Watson, Van Der Flier

9 - Webb, Murray, Care
10 - Farrell, Russell, Sexton
12/13 - Taylor, Huw Jones, Henshaw, JJ, Ringrose
11/14 - Nowell, Watson, Seymour, Daly
15 - Hogg, Williams,


15 English
11 Scots
10 Irish
5 Welsh

I quite like that squad. I'd only make 3 changes from it with R.Gray (I don't think you need 6 locks), Care and Taylor making way for Ben Youngs, Te'o and Scott Williams.

[cakeordeath]

Scotch Tub Time Machine?

I am so, so sorry.

[Hazel Sapling]

I am actually not sure what Daly has done to be worthy of a wing spot. I think he is a good full back (probably better than Brown after his drop in form) and solid cover for 13/wing however, if I am taking a wing, I am taking an Ashton, a Trimble or a Visser (whose defensive work is below average even though it is improved) who are real finishers. North I can understand avoiding due to form/health concern, but even out of form he is a better wing than Daly. Rant over.

Looks like the Pro 12 is expanding to 16 in the next couple of seasons. Is there a chance that the Welsh take the opportunity to lose a team in exchange for someone else (Spain/US/Canada/SA/Germany) to get a spot?

[Eejit]

Hogg crocked for six months, Gray for six and Tagive for 9.

Leaves us dreadfully short of fullback cover.

[RDW]

Who do Glasgow have that can play fullback other than Hogg?

[jimbopip]

Hogg crocked for six months, Gray for six and Tagive for 9.

Leaves us dreadfully short of fullback cover.

Yeah, it's a moot point as to who will be missed most. We have plenty of second rows but there is only one Jonny Gray. Layla Massager had better live up to his billing pdq or we could be having our end of season party round about Guy Fawkes night. Mind you if we double up with the MFL we might get a block booking discount.

[jimbopip]

Who do Glasgow have that can play fullback other than Hogg?

There are three options: Richie V (unless he decides to try out being a tight head), Huw Jones which would mean Horne 12 Dunbar 13, or Hastings at full back.


I'd go for Hastings 15 just to upset the Luvvies.

[BigGee]

That's all a bit of a blow!

[RDW]

Vernon at fullback - is that a serious suggestion?

Jones is still injured long term!

[Hazel Sapling]

Glasgow will have Murchie as primary option with Seymour and L Jones as cover. From the sounds of it, this is probably a blessing in disguise for Hogg if he is getting his shoulder sorted and it allows him a proper break from rugby. Probably be back in time for November tests with Gray.

Shame about Tagive who looked a solid prospect but we are not short on wings.

Were Gray healthy, I would still want Brian and Cummings to start the season (Swinson should be late to pre-season). Petersen and McDonald provide further cover.

[RDW]

Murchie was released last season

[jimbopip]

RDW, just remember "Richie V: he plays where he wants". If he wants to be full back he will be full back. And a world class one at that.

Huw Jones' injury isn't such a concern; we have Grigg, Johnson, Dunbar, Horne and the promising young Paddy Kelly. And Richie V. Unless he fancies hooking for a change.

p.s. the tone of your post was terse and slightly choleric; it's the thought of Hastings 15 isn't it?

[RDW]

RDW, just remember "Richie V: he plays where he wants". If he wants to be full back he will be full back. And a world class one at that.

Huw Jones' injury isn't such a concern; we have Grigg, Johnson, Dunbar, Horne and the promising young Paddy Kelly. And Richie V. Unless he fancies hooking for a change.

p.s. the tone of your post was terse and slightly choleric; it's the thought of Hastings 15 isn't it?

Well it sounds like there aren't actually any 15s, and you're relying on players playing out of position!

You can have Bryce back

[jimbopip]

As it happens I hear that Nathan Bomries is even now in Byres Road buying pints of Buckkie for Schiz and toasting the new "work experience plookie youth who'll be filling in at full back" Blair Kinghorn, I believe he's called.

[Hazel Sapling]

Murchie was released last season

I completely missed that. L Jones to start at full back...wonder if Scholes fancies coming over?

[TJ]

Whats happened to Ickle jonny?

Edit - sussed it - surgery on a wrist injury

[RDW]

Someone want to do a breakdown of the Glasgow squad, assuming recruitment is pretty much done (although there surely needs to be another fullback brought in).

[nickj]

Maybe Glasgow will spend some of their mooted 800k windfall on a new fullback?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40464201

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40469953

[Hazel Sapling]

Who would be available to sign who is of a decent level?

We could take a flyer on someone who is under-performing. Has the stink that McGuigan caused passed? He is probably available from Sale who now have the RL converts at wing.

[BigGee]

In other news, the Venerable Sean Lamont is going into S&C conditioning coaching, initially with the Glasgow and West academy.

Seems a good move for him and I am sure that he has got a lot to put back into the game.

[RDW]

Will be strange for Lamont - he'll have been on a decent salary as a player (certainly compared to the average person) but as assistant S&C coach he'll probably be on around 20k if he's lucky!

[Manky-Flanker]

Who would be available to sign who is of a decent level?

We could take a flyer on someone who is under-performing. Has the stink that McGuigan caused passed? He is probably available from Sale who now have the RL converts at wing.  

Has a certain Mr Halfpenny come to an arrangement with a certain Mr Boudjellal? or is he still clubless going into the season...

[Hazel Sapling]

Who would be available to sign who is of a decent level?

We could take a flyer on someone who is under-performing. Has the stink that McGuigan caused passed? He is probably available from Sale who now have the RL converts at wing.  

Has a certain Mr Halfpenny come to an arrangement with a certain Mr Boudjellal? or is he still clubless going into the season...

Please see bold....

I would love to see a live reaction of Welsh die hards if that came to fruition though

[BigGee]

Will be strange for Lamont - he'll have been on a decent salary as a player (certainly compared to the average person) but as assistant S&C coach he'll probably be on around 20k if he's lucky!

A bit of a problem for all retiring professional rugby players. I don't suppose he, nor many others are suitably qualified to walk straight into another job that will pay them £100,000 pa.

A lot of them will go into some kind of training for another career and you are almost certainly going to have to take a pay cut to do that, same as anyone else undergoing a career change.

Hopefully SL will get good at this line of work and eventually make a decent living at it.

[RDW]

And to be fair he no doubt will have been planning this for a few years and would have earned a decent amount in his playing career.

My sympathy is limited but it still will come as a shock to the system!

[Anglobraveheart]

WRT Full Back, could George Horne be an option there? I know that he is a scum half, but he has the running, attacking and tackling skillset to satisfy the role until Hogg returns to fitness. I appreciate that GH rarely kicks the ball from hand, which could make for some exhilarating plays for us. But for the first couple of months when the conditions should be dryer and more firm under foot, GH could be a good solution.

[BigGee]

Glasgow sign up Brandon Thompson on a two year deal from the Stormers.

That is a decent signing, he looked quite sharp when he was over on loan last season and with Hoggy out for a while, gives us some decent cover at FB. He will also add to the mix at FH.

Another decent bit of business and the Glasgow roster must be nearing completion now.

[BigGee]

On another note, the tickets for the AI game against the ABs sold out in minutes. I was online before 10.00 as was my son and neither of us got a look at them.

We settled for the Australia game instead and I would imagine that will be pretty close to be full up as well if the demand for tickets holds up and the disappointed fans chose that game instead. All good for the SRU coffers.

[RossAnderson]

On another note, the tickets for the AI game against the ABs sold out in minutes. I was online before 10.00 as was my son and neither of us got a look at them.

We settled for the Australia game instead and I would imagine that will be pretty close to be full up as well if the demand for tickets holds up and the disappointed fans chose that game instead. All good for the SRU coffers.

Was surprised to see this is only the second EVER AI to sell out at Murrayfield, it's only July!

Would look out for tickets becoming available closer to the time. My club have told me they will be selling tickets for all games and would imagine most other clubs also have an allocation. If these are unsold they go back to the sru.

[nickj]

Good to see Brandon Thomson coming in.

I wonder whether we might go for Lachlan McCaffrey?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40482336

[R!skysports]

We have been almost legal for a while...

[RDW]

Someone want to do a breakdown of the Glasgow squad, assuming recruitment is pretty much done (although there surely needs to be another fullback brought in).

[MacKnocked-on]

Good to see Brandon Thomson coming in.

I wonder whether we might go for Lachlan McCaffrey?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40482336

Had we worked out for certain if Thomson is SQ or not? Obviously has a Scottish dad but there seemed to be some doubt given he played for SA U20s against certain opposition which potentially tied him to SA.

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

Someone want to do a breakdown of the Glasgow squad, assuming recruitment is pretty much done (although there surely needs to be another fullback brought in).

Here you go.

Glasgow Warriors Squad 2017/18 - CLICK TO EXPAND:

PS. Brandon Thomson's father was born in Scotland. He hasn't tied himself to SA so he ours for the taking.

[Sponsored content]