Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

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Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Fri 26 May 2017, 4:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

So tomorrow ends the Pro-12, who will be the champions?

Munster: Simon Zebo; Andrew Conway, Francis Saili, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Tyler Bleyendaal, Conor Murray; CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony (captain), Billy Holland, Donnacha Ryan, John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Dave Kilcoyne

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Brian Scott, Stephen Archer, Jean Deysel, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Jaco Taute

Scarlets: Johnny McNicholl; Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Steffan Evans; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies; John Barclay (captain), James Davies, Aaron Shingler, Tadhg Beirne, Lewis Rawlins, Samson Lee, Ryan Elias, Rob Evans

Replacements: Emyr Phillips, Wyn Jones, Werner Kruger, David Bulbring, Will Boyde, Jonathan Evans, Hadleigh Parkes, DTH Van der Merwe

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)

Assistant Referees: David Wilkinson (IRFU) & Ian Davies (WRU)

TMO: Neil Paterson (SRU)


In my opinion (as a Munster fan) Munster are making a mistake in starting Saili. I think his lack defensive skills will be exposed by the Scarlets. I would have started Taute.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Griff on Mon 29 May 2017, 3:24 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results

Shingler did miss out, initially. Only called up the other day as a last minute injury replacement for King from the Ospreys. I've always been a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but the Welsh management don't seem to be as keen.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 May 2017, 3:51 pm

Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results

Shingler did miss out, initially. Only called up the other day as a last minute injury replacement for King from the Ospreys. I've always been a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but the Welsh management don't seem to be as keen.

Didn't realise Shingler wasn't in the original squad

Whats happening with 'Gatlands Law' I see quite a few English based players in there that seem to take them beyond the 3 in the law Thomas Young included

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Griff on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results

Shingler did miss out, initially. Only called up the other day as a last minute injury replacement for King from the Ospreys. I've always been a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but the Welsh management don't seem to be as keen.

Didn't realise Shingler wasn't in the original squad

Whats happening with 'Gatlands Law' I see quite a few English based players in there that seem to take them beyond the 3 in the law Thomas Young included

Doesn't apply to players who were/are already abroad when the law came in. Only players choosing to move there after the law came in (i.e. choosing to risk it despite knowing about the law) are included - e.g. Priestland, Faletau, now Liam Williams, etc. Moriaty, Young, Dollman, Francis, et al. were already there. However, I think the law stipulates that if those guys move club and do not choose a Welsh one when their contracts are up then they will then be included in the law (I.e. they knew about the law but chose to move to another non-welsh club anyway). Or something like that.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:04 pm

The problem for Davies, Shingler, Navidi etc is that they are all of similar age, in a group that includes Faletau, Lydiate, Warburton and Tipuric. There was no way that Gatland was going to stray too far from the Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau trio which functioned extremely well.

After the current crop, Gatland will be looking at younger players (such as Moriarty).

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:07 pm

Just before this season began I said Shingler was like a poor man's Croft, and considering Croft was struggling to make an impact that Shingler is not far off being done in rugby. This season I just haven't stopped dripping in runny egg.

Scarlets have been awesome. Average players and young guys have come on leaps and bounds under Pivac yet it's taken a little over 2 seasons for him to get the team playing the way they are. For me it suggests that this is either a purple patch, or the state of the coaching at the Welsh regions is a lot worse than we thought. It's probably the latter.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:20 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The problem for Davies, Shingler, Navidi etc is that they are all of similar age, in a group that includes Faletau, Lydiate, Warburton and Tipuric. There was no way that Gatland was going to stray too far from the Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau trio which functioned extremely well.

After the current crop, Gatland will be looking at younger players (such as Moriarty).

The Scarlets play a particular way and it utilises forwards like James Davies who are fast and have good hands, but to be honest you can say that about most of their pack the way they're playing. I do think that Turks rate him higher than the sum of his parts. I guess I just prefer a flanker rather than an extra backline player. Warburton, Tips, Ellis Jenkins and Ollie Griffiths are certainly better open-sides. Not sure about Navidi as he plays across the back-row, but a couple seasons back he was sensational and I couldn't understand why he wasn't being selected by team Wales. I'm not sure if Young is better or not but he is getting very good reviews.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 May 2017, 4:21 pm

Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results

Shingler did miss out, initially. Only called up the other day as a last minute injury replacement for King from the Ospreys. I've always been a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but the Welsh management don't seem to be as keen.

Didn't realise Shingler wasn't in the original squad

Whats happening with 'Gatlands Law' I see quite a few English based players in there that seem to take them beyond the 3 in the law Thomas Young included

Doesn't apply to players who were/are already abroad when the law came in. Only players choosing to move there after the law came in (i.e. choosing to risk it despite knowing about the law) are included - e.g. Priestland, Faletau, now Liam Williams, etc. Moriaty, Young, Dollman, Francis, et al. were already there. However, I think the law stipulates that if those guys move club and do not choose a Welsh one when their contracts are up then they will then be included in the law (I.e. they knew about the law but chose to move to another non-welsh club anyway). Or something like that.

Ah I thought it included renewing contracts

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Griff on Mon 29 May 2017, 5:17 pm

Possibly, Marty. Rings a bell.

I'm sure there's probably some caveat there too for development tours not counting or similar.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 May 2017, 5:19 pm

Haven't they always said there'd have to be extenuating circumstances to select more than 3? I guess McBryde being in charge counts as one of those circumstances.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results

Shingler did miss out, initially. Only called up the other day as a last minute injury replacement for King from the Ospreys. I've always been a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but the Welsh management don't seem to be as keen.

Didn't realise Shingler wasn't in the original squad

Whats happening with 'Gatlands Law' I see quite a few English based players in there that seem to take them beyond the 3 in the law Thomas Young included

Doesn't apply to players who were/are already abroad when the law came in. Only players choosing to move there after the law came in (i.e. choosing to risk it despite knowing about the law) are included - e.g. Priestland, Faletau, now Liam Williams, etc. Moriaty, Young, Dollman, Francis, et al. were already there. However, I think the law stipulates that if those guys move club and do not choose a Welsh one when their contracts are up then they will then be included in the law (I.e. they knew about the law but chose to move to another non-welsh club anyway). Or something like that.

Ah I thought it included renewing contracts

It is all full of loop holes.

A player is captured by Gatlands law if they have receieved a market value contract offer from a region and have chosen not to sign to that region. That is why some of those who moved from one side outside of Wales to another are captured (Roberts for example) and others are not (Moriarty and Williams etc).
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:11 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Haven't they always said there'd have to be extenuating circumstances to select more than 3? I guess McBryde being in charge counts as one of those circumstances.

They can use the Lions taking 12 players as one excuse, then injuries as another. Also I isn't it meant to go up to five at the end of this season (technically was that Saturday?) until the RWC, and then drop again.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:14 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

There's always one looking to be offended of everyone's behalf. Oh dear.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Haven't they always said there'd have to be extenuating circumstances to select more than 3? I guess McBryde being in charge counts as one of those circumstances.

It's increased to 4.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:15 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Haven't they always said there'd have to be extenuating circumstances to select more than 3? I guess McBryde being in charge counts as one of those circumstances.

They can use the Lions taking 12 players as one excuse, then injuries as another.  Also I isn't it meant to go up to five at the end of this season (technically was that Saturday?) until the RWC, and then drop again.

Didn't hear it, but I guess they needed to increase it with Halfpenny, Williams, Faletau and Moriarty all signing or re-signing for clubs outside of Wales.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Stone Motif on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:35 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Haven't they always said there'd have to be extenuating circumstances to select more than 3? I guess McBryde being in charge counts as one of those circumstances.

It's increased to 4.

It climbs over the world cup cycle iirc?
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:45 pm

What are the coming and goings at Scarlets in the summer.

I know Liam Williams is away - anyone else ?

Exciting brand of rugby and would be a shame for it to be broken up

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:49 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:What are the coming and goings at Scarlets in the summer.

I know Liam Williams is away - anyone else ?

Exciting brand of rugby and would be a shame for it to be broken up

DTH to Newcastle.

They need to make some squad additions, a scrummaging prop and perhaps just the one winger whilst bringing through an U20 player. Possibly a fly-half too.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 30 May 2017, 1:00 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

There's always one looking to be offended of everyone's behalf. Oh dear.

Ah, the old ad hominem.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 1:12 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

There's always one looking to be offended of everyone's behalf. Oh dear.

Ah, the old ad hominem.

Don't you have any new material yet?

It was quite clear that the Scarlets team have looked to mirror the way NZ play (those are the Kiwi's btw, hence the reference Kiwi rugby). Seeing as you didn't watch it you can hear it from Wayne Pivac himself Wink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40078620

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 30 May 2017, 2:24 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:What are the coming and goings at Scarlets in the summer.

I know Liam Williams is away - anyone else ?

Exciting brand of rugby and would be a shame for it to be broken up

Only first teamer is Sanjay, and DTH from the bench. Then there were a handful of other ones, Pete the Meat, Aled Thomas and Morgan Allen being the only noticable ones.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 30 May 2017, 2:40 pm

I'm at work Mikey, I can't watch that. Can you quote him?

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Stone Motif on Tue 30 May 2017, 2:44 pm

They are getting one of the shining young talents in Gwent rugby in GR Jones, so don't worry about missing Sanjay
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 30 May 2017, 2:52 pm

Speaking of Gwent, it stung a bit seeing Mark Taylor and Byron Hayward celebrating on Saturday. We could do with them!

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 2:59 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm at work Mikey, I can't watch that. Can you quote him?

I'm also at work but watched it last night. Wayne said something about going over to NZ and getting an idea of how NZ teams play to then try and replicate that.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 30 May 2017, 3:14 pm

Stone Motif wrote:They are getting one of the shining young talents in Gwent rugby in GR Jones, so don't worry about missing Sanjay

Really looking forward to having him back here again, he was missed hugely when he left last time.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 30 May 2017, 5:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

There's always one looking to be offended of everyone's behalf. Oh dear.

Ah, the old ad hominem.

Don't you have any new material yet?

It was quite clear that the Scarlets team have looked to mirror the way NZ play (those are the Kiwi's btw, hence the reference Kiwi rugby). Seeing as you didn't watch it you can hear it from Wayne Pivac himself Wink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40078620

Well if you haven't watched the video yet it's exactly how I called it before WP came out and said it;

"It's a game not too dissimilar to how we play it in New Zealand, and Stephen came with the coaching group, we went down to New Zealand last year and had a good chat to the All Black guys to see what they do and how they do it. We have implemented some of those things."

He went on but it was hard to keep up with the Kiwi tone. So LP it looks like I had you there thumbsup.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 30 May 2017, 7:19 pm

Is there any truth in the Tom Prydie to Scarlets rumours that are doing the rounds ?

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue 30 May 2017, 10:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Is there any truth in the Tom Prydie to Scarlets rumours that are doing the rounds ?

Pretty sure him and Grabham are done deals
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 8:56 am

Wasn't that a marvellous thumping? Imagine how much more it could have been had the Turks another €2m to spend on their team. You know, for level playing field analysis.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:10 am

PhilBB wrote:Wasn't that a marvellous thumping? Imagine how much more it could have been had the Turks another €2m to spend on their team. You know, for level playing field analysis.

You poor individual - so full of spite.

I was there it was a great day out and Scarlets played some great rugby and deserved to win
I, and other Irish supporters have congratulated them - in the calendar year of 2017 they have been the team of the tournament.
As I alluded to earlier I hope they can keep the team together it will be good for Welsh rugby but also for the Pro12 as a whole.
They have played a brand of rugby that should get all Pro12 teams to sit up and think.
We could point to the fact 2 Irish sides made the semi finals of the European cup whereas Wales didn't get a team in the knock out stages and haven't since so long ago I cant remember.
However unlike you I am not small minded - in fact if Scarlets made the knock out stages playing that kind of rugby good luck to them I'll cheer them on against anyone, other than Irish teams.

So I say well done Scarlets - it is just sad there is a Welsh posters who is more interested in being antagonistic towards the Irish than enjoying the moment.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:18 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Wasn't that a marvellous thumping? Imagine how much more it could have been had the Turks another €2m to spend on their team. You know, for level playing field analysis.

You poor individual - so full of spite.

I was there it was a great day out and Scarlets played some great rugby and deserved to win
I, and other Irish supporters have congratulated them - in the calendar year of 2017 they have been the team of the tournament.
As I alluded to earlier I hope they can keep the team together it will be good for Welsh rugby but also for the Pro12 as a whole.
They have played a brand of rugby that should get all Pro12 teams to sit up and think.
We could point to the fact 2 Irish sides made the semi finals of the European cup whereas Wales didn't get a team in the knock out stages and haven't since so long ago I cant remember.
However unlike you I am not small minded - in fact if Scarlets made the knock out stages playing that kind of rugby good luck to them I'll cheer them on against anyone, other than Irish teams.

So I say well done Scarlets - it is just sad there is a Welsh posters who is more interested in being antagonistic towards the Irish than enjoying the moment.

Odd interpretation.

My point was simply that it wouldn't be unexpected for Welsh teams to win if they had more money. As it stood, they were huge underdogs with the bookies yet still triumphed with ease.

Put Moriarty in that team, put a decent 10 back up on the bench, put a better second row in and then they wouldn't have been huge underdogs.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:25 am

Huge underdogs? Not in my book, they had beaten Leinster at home and were more than the form team going into the final. Deserved and somewhat expected victors I feel...
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:27 am

eirebilly wrote:Huge underdogs? Not in my book, they had beaten Leinster at home and were more than the form team going into the final. Deserved and somewhat expected victors I feel...

Munster were 3/1 on.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:30 am

By the bookies maybe but certainly not by many who had been watching the Scarlets this year...
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:32 am

eirebilly wrote:By the bookies maybe but certainly not by many who had been watching the Scarlets this year...

Yeah, those bookies never watch rugby before selecting their odds, do they?
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:36 am

PhilBB wrote:
eirebilly wrote:By the bookies maybe but certainly not by many who had been watching the Scarlets this year...

Yeah, those bookies never watch rugby before selecting their odds, do they?

Well bookies mean nothing to me, I choose to watch games and draw my own conclusions than follow blindly what bookies (or others) say. My conclusion was that Scarlets were the form team by some margin and ended up worthy champions.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:37 am

Bookies often get rugby wrong - everyone I talked to I was saying Scarlets would win.

Also as I posted somewhere here on 606 thanks to Scarlets I am £100 richer.
Bookies were offering 5-1 away to Leinster.
They were silly odds so a £20 bet was made - happy days

The big money is Soccer and Horse Racing - rugby hardly registered and in consequence they go for the obvious odds
often missing the detail.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:44 am

So, to confirm, despite 23 Bookmakers making Munster odds on favourites, the Turks were not underdogs.

Rightio.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:48 am

I guess its how you see things PhilBB. As stated, I prefer to form my own opinions on who is favourites/underdogs based on my own experience watching teams play. I don't require others to form my opinions.

Anyways, you seem a little too angry as a fan of a side who has won so I will leave you to it, hope you eventually get to enjoy the win thumbsup
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:51 am

eirebilly wrote:I guess its how you see things PhilBB. As stated, I prefer to form my own opinions on who is favourites/underdogs based on my own experience watching teams play. I don't require others to form my opinions.

Anyways, you seem a little too angry as a fan of a side who has won so I will leave you to it, hope you eventually get to enjoy the win thumbsup

I'm neither angry nor a fan of the team who won.

I'm just giggling at the idea of a team not being an underdog when 23 bookies make their opponents the odds on victor.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:52 am

Firstly, you said "huge underdogs" which is a massive exaggeration. Secondly, the Munster coaching staff, players and fans gave interviews or spoke online about their weariness of this Scarlets team and how they tore Leinster apart. As well as the fact that Munster had been indifferent for a few months prior while the Scarlets were peaking. Thirdly, the Irish media also spoke wearily of this game and acknowledged that the Scarlets could dispatch Munster in the same fashion they ended up doing. Fourthly, the Scarlets coaching staff, players and many of the fans were confident that the Scarlets could win.

So aside from the above, I'm not going to go by the bookies to label the Scarlets "huge underdogs". That doesn't match the reality. I'll take the opinion of the coaches, players and fans first, thanks. Either way, trying (as usual) to undermine Irish rugby and take pleasure in Munster's loss reveals you to be the typically bitter individual we know you to be.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by PhilBB on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:57 am

So Munster being 1/3 doesn't make their opponents huge underdogs.

Dear Christ.

That shows a tremendous comprehension ability.
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:02 am

PhilBB wrote:So Munster being 1/3 doesn't make their opponents huge underdogs.

Dear Christ.

That shows a tremendous comprehension ability.

What is comical is that as a rugby fan, you seem incapable of forming your own opinion, you require bookies to form yours...
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:04 am

Facts without analysis are utterly useless, as most of your posts are.

Shall we introduce some analysis? So, you haven't addressed any of the above which involves the coaches, players, fans and media involved, attending, or covering the event. You tell me what the general consensus was. It certainly doesn't fit your narrative. So, let's look at the bookies. Would you agree that many fans will get behind their own team winning or the team they would like to see win? Final in Ireland, Munster having a tough year, most of Ireland (including non-regular rugby fans) behind Munster. For those with less knowledge of the Pro 12, Munster have a lot more status than Scarlets, so I have no doubt many would be prepared to put money on Munster over the Scarlets.

However, my point is that for those who actually have been following the Pro 12, were the Scarlets considered underdogs in this final? No.

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:28 am

eirebilly wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So Munster being 1/3 doesn't make their opponents huge underdogs.

Dear Christ.

That shows a tremendous comprehension ability.

What is comical is that as a rugby fan, you seem incapable of forming your own opinion, you require bookies to form yours...

billy to be fair to Phil that's far from the truth because usually he believes his opinion to be fact

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by eirebilly on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:34 am

marty2086 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So Munster being 1/3 doesn't make their opponents huge underdogs.

Dear Christ.

That shows a tremendous comprehension ability.

What is comical is that as a rugby fan, you seem incapable of forming your own opinion, you require bookies to form yours...

billy to be fair to Phil that's far from the truth because usually he believes his opinion to be fact

I just love the 'comprehension ability' quote. Quite clearly we have stated that the bookies may have had Munster as favourites (good outline from Rory as to possibly why) but we, as fans, did not believe this as we formed our own opinion based on watching the Scarlets and Munsters contrasting run ins to the final.

There is definitely some comprehension issues here but not from us thumbsup
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:40 am

eirebilly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So Munster being 1/3 doesn't make their opponents huge underdogs.

Dear Christ.

That shows a tremendous comprehension ability.

What is comical is that as a rugby fan, you seem incapable of forming your own opinion, you require bookies to form yours...

billy to be fair to Phil that's far from the truth because usually he believes his opinion to be fact

I just love the 'comprehension ability' quote. Quite clearly we have stated that the bookies may have had Munster as favourites (good outline from Rory as to possibly why) but we, as fans, did not believe this as we formed our own opinion based on watching the Scarlets and Munsters contrasting run ins to the final.

There is definitely some comprehension issues here but not from us thumbsup

I had Scarlets as favourites, put them and a few others in an accumulator unfortunately took Exeter to win as well rather than to be champions Doh

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:53 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Wasn't that a marvellous thumping? Imagine how much more it could have been had the Turks another €2m to spend on their team. You know, for level playing field analysis.

You poor individual - so full of spite.

I was there it was a great day out and Scarlets played some great rugby and deserved to win
I, and other Irish supporters have congratulated them - in the calendar year of 2017 they have been the team of the tournament.
As I alluded to earlier I hope they can keep the team together it will be good for Welsh rugby but also for the Pro12 as a whole.
They have played a brand of rugby that should get all Pro12 teams to sit up and think.
We could point to the fact 2 Irish sides made the semi finals of the European cup whereas Wales didn't get a team in the knock out stages and haven't since so long ago I cant remember.
However unlike you I am not small minded - in fact if Scarlets made the knock out stages playing that kind of rugby good luck to them I'll cheer them on against anyone, other than Irish teams.

So I say well done Scarlets - it is just sad there is a Welsh posters who is more interested in being antagonistic towards the Irish than enjoying the moment.

In fairness, I have to say I have not seen a more gracious bunch of supporters in defeat than I did on saturday. I honestly dont think i have ever been hugged or hand my hand shaken by strangers so much in my life. As much as I may clash with Irish posters on here, in person they were absolute stars. And if any of those I met are from on here, I would like to thank them for the experience. Hug
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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed 31 May 2017, 2:05 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It's just impressive Kiwi rugby. I wish Wales would play like this but that will require a few pseronnsel changes.

I don't like this. There's nothing uniquely 'Kiwi' about attacking space and exploiting overlaps. I think it does a disservice to the other Scarlets coaches (particularly Stephen Jones). The Scarlets / Llanelli have always been a footballing side.

There's always one looking to be offended of everyone's behalf. Oh dear.

Ah, the old ad hominem.

Don't you have any new material yet?

It was quite clear that the Scarlets team have looked to mirror the way NZ play (those are the Kiwi's btw, hence the reference Kiwi rugby). Seeing as you didn't watch it you can hear it from Wayne Pivac himself Wink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40078620

Well if you haven't watched the video yet it's exactly how I called it before WP came out and said it;

"It's a game not too dissimilar to how we play it in New Zealand, and Stephen came with the coaching group, we went down to New Zealand last year and had a good chat to the All Black guys to see what they do and how they do it. We have implemented some of those things."

He went on but it was hard to keep up with the Kiwi tone. So LP it looks like I had you there thumbsup.

Thanks for going to such lengths. I'm touched kiss

I still don't think it's a uniquely Kiwi way of playing, even if they do it better than most. We Welsh were known for running rugby before a certain Kiwi from Waikato came along!

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Re: Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

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