Italy v Scotland, 10 June

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Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by George Carlin on Mon 29 May 2017, 2:15 pm


ITALY v SCOTLAND
10 June 2017
KO: 20:00 SGT (UTC+08)
National Stadium, Kallang, Singapore

Referee: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
Touch judges: TBC
TMO: TBC

Live on BBC1

A. Head to Head

27 Played 27
8 Won 19
0 Drawn 0
19 Lost 8
455 Points 653

B. Recent Form

18 March 2017
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
29 – 0 to Scotland

27 February 2016
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
20 – 36 to Scotland

29 August 2015
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
48 – 7 to Scotland

22 August 2015
Stadio Olimpico di Torino, Turin
12 – 16 to Scotland

28 February 2015
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
19 – 22 to Italy

22 February 2014
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
20 – 21 to Scotland

C. Teams

ITALY 

E Padovani, A Esposito, M Campagnaro, T Boni, L Sarto, T Allan, E Gori (capt); A Lovotti, L Bigi, S Ferrari, M Fuser, D Budd, F Minto, M Mbanda, R Barbieri.

Replacements: O Gega, F Zani, P Ceccarelli, A Van Schalkwyk, A Steyn, M Violi, C Canna, T Benvenuti.

SCOTLAND

D Taylor, D Hoyland, M Scott, A Dunbar, T Visser, F Russell, A Price; A Dell, R Ford, WP Nel, T Swinson, B Toolis, J Barclay (capt), R Wilson, J Strauss.

Replacements: F Brown, G Reid, Z Fagerson, R Harley, M Bradbury, H Pyrgos, P Horne.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 11 Jun 2017, 8:14 am; edited 4 times in total
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 29 May 2017, 2:32 pm

I see the 'GC doesn't do anything' comments had the desired effect!

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 May 2017, 3:09 pm

Ah George, a thread with Made In Ayr written all over it. World class no less. thumbsup

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by GLove39 on Mon 29 May 2017, 5:21 pm

George Carlin wrote:

Live on [TBC]


Sad

Had a look at Sky's calendar of fixtures the other day and turns out they're showing Australia V Italy & Fiji but not us.
And no word from the BBC or BT, hope the SRU haven't forgotten about getting the tour covered!?

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 May 2017, 6:03 pm

Glove, don't get so animated; the Numpties at HQ would never let a marketing opportunity pass them by. Surely not.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 30 May 2017, 8:58 am

The more I think about it the more concerned I am about the lack of quality in our back 3 - take out the tries scored by Hogg, Seymour and to a lesser extent Maitland and we would have lost quite a few games the last 2 years.

On the other hand it might be a good thing that we can no longer rely on the brilliance of our back 3 - time to get some more tries through the forwards or the centres.

Here's my team for this game - I want it to essentially be the team we put out against Australia:

1 Reid
2 Brown
3 Nel (should have 2 games under his belt by this game)
4 Gray
5 Toolis
6 Barclay
7 Watson
8 Strauss

9 Price
10 Russell
11 Visser
12 Dunbar
13 Scott/Taylor (happy with either)
14 Hoyland
15 Jackson Rolling Eyes

Subs - Dell, Ford, Fagerson, Swinson, Hardie, Pyrgos, Horne, Scott/Taylor

With the main positions up for debate being 13, number 8 and the back row sub.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:00 pm

I quite like that team RDW. I think you have to reward Scott for a wonderful season that Taylor has been injured through.

I would be tempted to put Strauss on the bench for Wilson to start at 8. Barclay to be given a week off after his exertions with Scarlets for Bradbury to start at 6.

I would maybe look to Allan ahead of Dell. He had a good end of season and may be worth a look.

As for the wingers argument, it is a hypothetical of what could have happened. This is a good test to see if Hoyland or Jones can hold their own. Going forward, Bassett needs to be spoken to and Glasgow signing 2 NSQ wings (Sarto and the NZer) needs to be able to develop another Scottish wing (Jones or Hughes could make the leap to average international). We do need a new generation to come through in the next 3-4 years or we will rely on Taylor and H Jones for depth.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:03 pm

It will certainly be interesting too see how Tooney views certain players - VC obviously didn't rate Toolis or Scott but Tooney may well do. Toolis strikes me as the kind of lock that Tooney would like.

Scott really couldn't have done much more over the course of the season and Taylor hasn't played much at all - Taylor is probably the better 13 if both were fit and on top form but there's really not much in it. Taylor would cover centre and back 3 if he was on the bench.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:17 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:It will certainly be interesting too see how Tooney views certain players - VC obviously didn't rate Toolis or Scott but Tooney may well do. Toolis strikes me as the kind of lock that Tooney would like.

Scott really couldn't have done much more over the course of the season and Taylor hasn't played much at all - Taylor is probably the better 13 if both were fit and on top form but there's really not much in it. Taylor would cover centre and back 3 if he was on the bench.

I wonder if we're likely to see Taylor start on the wing during the tour, given he's probably one of our better players, in theory should be well rested following his injuries, and would be a waste for him to be sitting on the bench.

He can move into the centre should Dunbar/Scott get injured.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:20 pm

My biggest concern is at 15 - Jackson really offers very little there. Hoyland is an out and out winger with great pace, is a finisher, and I'd like to see him at International level.

Taylor at 15 is maybe an option but I don't know how much he's played there - I'd probably rather him than Jackson at 15 though.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:21 pm

Nelly the elephant was apparently quite mediocre against England and looked a long way off match fitness.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EST on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:30 pm

If it were me, I would play Taylor at 15 - granted it's not his preferred position, but he is a solid player who rarley makes mistakes. To be fair to Jackson, he played ok there in the WC warm up games, but I think we need to get out best players on the pitch, and Taylor is certainly one of those.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EWT Spoons on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:31 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:My biggest concern is at 15 - Jackson really offers very little there. Hoyland is an out and out winger with great pace, is a finisher, and I'd like to see him at International level.

Taylor at 15 is maybe an option but I don't know how much he's played there - I'd probably rather him than Jackson at 15 though.

I'd forgotten about our lack of full backs in the squad. No idea if Taylor has played there, but has to be a better option than Jackson as you say.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EST on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:32 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Nelly the elephant was apparently quite mediocre against England and looked a long way off match fitness.

Not sure that can be classed as a surprise, Radge? Hoepfully he gains a bit of traction in the Ulster game, I might be inclined to start Fagerson and bring on Nelly the Elephant early in the second half against Italy.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:32 pm

Nel didn't improve the Ba Bas scrum but as I said on the other thread I doubt he would have had much support from the players behind him - the scrum would hardly be a cohesive unit after a few days training together (especially since the training consisted of keepy-uppy and the crossbar challenge). I also don't remember him doing much else but all that mattered is that he got a sweat on and didn't get injured!

Hopefully he'll get 50 minutes against Ulster on Wednesday, which will do him the world of good before the tour.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by jimbopip on Tue 30 May 2017, 12:57 pm

For this game we may see some Tombola action.

12. Jackson
13. Taylor
15. Horne

I don't remember Jacko ever playing 15 at Scotstoun, which probably means he did but was totally anonymous. Horne scored his famous "Horne Furra Linee" try against Saints from 15, I think. 13 seems to be Taylor's best position.

Then again the Half-Tombola will probably be

10. Dancer
12. Furra Linee
13. Taylor
15. Rozza Hughes.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by nickj on Tue 30 May 2017, 1:22 pm

Maits is a huge loss. I wonder if Barcs might have a word with McNicholl?

In the meantime, I'd go for:

1 Reid
2 Brown
3 Fagerson
4 J Gray
5 Toolis
6 Hardie / Wilson
7 Watson
8 Strauss

9 Price
10 Russell
11 Visser
12 Dunbar
13 Scott
14 Hoyland / Jones
15 Taylor

Subs - Allan / Dell, Ford, Nel, Swinson, Wilson / Hardie, Pyrgos, Horne, Jones / Hoyland

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:25 am

I presume that we all care more about this than the 'other game' on the 7th?
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:27 am

This game is being shown on BBC 1

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by BigGee on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:41 am

Interesting with all the talk about jet lag in the Lions and being ill prepared for their game. The Scotland team got themselves out to Singapore a week ahead of their game giving themselves plenty of time to acclimatise.

We certainly won't be able to use the same excuse if things all go Pete Tong for us against Italy!

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 3:11 pm

Scotsman reporting that the Italians will be resting a number of their best players including Sergio Parisse, Luke McLean, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Lorenzo Cittadini and George Biagi.

So this team is ostensibly weaker than the one we gave a big ciao to in the Six Nations.

Which is nice.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by jimbopip on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 5:50 pm

George Carlin wrote:Scotsman reporting that the Italians will be resting a number of their best players including Sergio Parisse, Luke McLean, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Lorenzo Cittadini and George Biagi.

So this team is ostensibly weaker than the one we gave a big ciao to in the Six Nations.

Which is nice.

Is that possible? I hear the Italian bigwigs are debating adopting a new motto: Veni, vidi, Gotgubbedagain.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:13 am

Team announced. Taylor at fullback, Nelly back starting, Toolis partnering Swinson with Harley covering lock on the bench. Good team, I hope that backline get a chance to run Italy ragged!

D Taylor (Saracens); D Hoyland (Edinburgh), M Scott (Gloucester), A Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), T Visser (Harlequins); F Russell (Glasgow Warriors), A Price (Glasgow Warriors); A Dell (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), WP Nel (Edinburgh), T Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), B Toolis (Edinburgh), J Barclay (Scarlets), J Hardie (Edinburgh), J Strauss (Glasgow Warriors).

Replacements: F Brown (Glasgow Warriors), G Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Z Fagrson (Glasgow Warriors), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), M Bradbury (Edinburgh), R Wilson (Glasgow Warriors), H Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors), P Horne (Glasgow Warriors).

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:27 am

Good team! Delighted to see Taylor at fullback and Scott at 13. Big responsibility on Toolis to run the lineout.

Concerns over Gray?

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:57 am

Is Gray and the Mish injured?
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by BigGee on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 8:34 am

Gray is apparently rested after a long and exhausting season, which may not be a bad decision, he was looking jaded in the last few games. Watson is carrying a minor injury.

Toonie suggested that he was trying out a few combos and that the team will change throughout the tour.

Interestingly the bench is a 5/2 split, with three back rows on duty. Clearly the conditions are playing a part here as well and the big lads are going to suffer a bit. Hard to see Nel or Strauss doing much more than a half. It will be good to see Bardbury and Wilson taking it to a tiring Italian team in the second half as well.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by George Carlin on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 8:47 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Team announced. Taylor at fullback, Nelly back starting, Toolis partnering Swinson with Harley covering lock on the bench. Good team, I hope that backline get a chance to run Italy ragged!

D Taylor (Saracens); D Hoyland (Edinburgh), M Scott (Gloucester), A Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), T Visser (Harlequins); F Russell (Glasgow Warriors), A Price (Glasgow Warriors); A Dell (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), WP Nel (Edinburgh), T Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), B Toolis (Edinburgh), J Barclay (Scarlets), J Hardie (Edinburgh), J Strauss (Glasgow Warriors).

Replacements: F Brown (Glasgow Warriors), G Reid (Glasgow Warriors), Z Fagrson (Glasgow Warriors), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), M Bradbury (Edinburgh), R Wilson (Glasgow Warriors), H Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors), P Horne (Glasgow Warriors).
Like that team very much and if it runs out even half decently it should be replicated for the Wallabies.

Good bench too - the 6/2 split is interesting given that we don't have Laidlaw to deputise as a 9/10. Not sure we should replicate that against Australia.

I assume that they are keeping Jonny in reserve for the next game which is fine by me.

I really, really hope that Nelly and Toolis play well.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 8:53 am

I suspect we'll see more Glasgow forwards for the Aus game - certainly Fraser Brown starting.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by tigertattie on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 9:27 am

Welcome back Nelly, we've missed you Hug

I'm not sure if resting Gray is wise. If he's being rested for the whole summer I could understand, but I'd not fancy throwing him back in for the Oz game cold. The convicts are in the middle of their season and will be hitting top gear, a seized up Jonny won't exactly be in full flow.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by nickj on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

My only concern is the bench. Harley, Bradbury and Wilson are all quite similar players IMO?

On the other hand, it'll be great to see Taylor at fullback.

I'm also keen to see what Hoyland can do.

Its a brave and exciting pick by Toonie, but I suppose I wouldnt have expcetd anything less.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:29 am

nickj wrote:My only concern is the bench. Harley, Bradbury and Wilson are all quite similar players IMO?

On the other hand, it'll be great to see Taylor at fullback.

I'm also keen to see what Hoyland can do.

Its a brave and exciting pick by Toonie, but I suppose I wouldnt have expcetd anything less.

It is a pretty conservative selection by Toony standards - there are no wildcard picks at all!

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:28 pm

Yeah I'm pretty happy with the team. Should be a good match.

The Lions threads have started to implode with in-fighting and insurrection.

Part of me is disappointed, the other part finds it hilarious.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Yeah I'm pretty happy with the team. Should be a good match.

The Lions threads have started to implode with in-fighting and insurrection.

Part of me is disappointed, the other part finds it hilarious.

But no part surprised?

With Biggar possibly out due to concussion, Gatland may have to call up another 10. Russell in with a chance, but he'll probably either
a) pick Sam Davies, or
b) use Hogg/Laidlaw as 10 cover Doh

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EST on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:32 pm

I like that team, and like George, I really want to see Toolis go well - he has been putting in shifts for a rotten Edinburgh team for a long time now, and not getting his reward at international level - he really deserves his start. The back-row has a bit of dog about it, and its great to have Nelly back.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:33 pm

From interviews with Toony it sounds like he's a big fan of Toolis - hopefully he delivers (although we shouldn't be too demanding given this is his 2nd cap and first start for Scotland)

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:36 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Yeah I'm pretty happy with the team. Should be a good match.

The Lions threads have started to implode with in-fighting and insurrection.

Part of me is disappointed, the other part finds it hilarious.

But no part surprised?

With Biggar possibly out due to concussion, Gatland may have to call up another 10. Russell in with a chance, but he'll probably either
a) pick Sam Davies, or
b) use Hogg/Laidlaw as 10 cover Doh

Laidlaw at 10 makes more sense but I still wouldn't want to see it. Hogg at 10 is just stoopid oopid. He sometimes takes the ball as 1st reciever for Scotland but he's better coming into the line from full back. He can see more of the game and exploit gaps better that way.

Russell or Ford should be called up immediately.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EST on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:40 pm

I have been on the fence about Russell and the Lions, mainly because he does make some very elementary mistakes, and he totally imploded in that Twickenham game. However, the more I think about it the more I reckon he would really step up in the Lions camp - I think he would be absolutely dynamite behind a pack of their quality.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by EST on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:46 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:From interviews with Toony it sounds like he's a big fan of Toolis - hopefully he delivers (although we shouldn't be too demanding given this is his 2nd cap and first start for Scotland)

Yeah, he should be allowed to grow into the role. I just think Toolis was one of BVC's blind spots - it was obvious he didn't rate him, and I could never understand why, considering his consistency of performance.

Toolis has all the right attributes to be a successful international second row: big, athletic, great line-out operator and a bit of dog about him - I really hope he kicks on.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 12:54 pm

EST wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:From interviews with Toony it sounds like he's a big fan of Toolis - hopefully he delivers (although we shouldn't be too demanding given this is his 2nd cap and first start for Scotland)

Yeah, he should be allowed to grow into the role.  I just think Toolis was one of BVC's blind spots - it was obvious he didn't rate him, and I could never understand why, considering his consistency of performance.

Toolis has all the right attributes to be a successful international second row: big, athletic, great line-out operator and a bit of dog about him - I really hope he kicks on.

That or he just preferred what Swinson could offer instead, which is fair enough even if I still believe Toolis can offer more at this level. Picking Gilchrist over Toolis on the other hand was a mistake from BVC, and one that Toony has immediately corrected.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:20 pm

I truly can't wait for this game. I need some cheering up after the dirge the Lions have been serving up.

That Midfield should be able to create quite a bit of space for our back 3 who actually look pretty capable considering Hogg and Seymour are getting an attacking master class from Rob Howley in NZ.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by nickj on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:24 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
nickj wrote:My only concern is the bench. Harley, Bradbury and Wilson are all quite similar players IMO?

On the other hand, it'll be great to see Taylor at fullback.

I'm also keen to see what Hoyland can do.

Its a brave and exciting pick by Toonie, but I suppose I wouldnt have expcetd anything less.

It is a pretty conservative selection by Toony standards - there are no wildcard picks at all!

I dunno, I'm pretty pleased to see Taylor at fullback, Barcs and Hardie at 6 and 7, Nel starting and Toolis in the boilerhouse with Swinno. A few of our previous coaches wouldn't have been that ballsy. They would have flogged knackered players and played someone like Tonks at fullback. 6 /2 of the bench is also pretty ballsy.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:55 pm

Delighted with the Scotland line-up, great start from Toonie as a selector. I'm particularly pleased to see Swinson/Toolis in the second row and delighted that Matt Scott is to be given a chance. Taylor at 15 will be interesting - he isn't a natural in that position but he's played there a bit for Sarries. We have depth at centre but not at 15 so good to see him being given a shot. Big chance for Hoyland as well, in what I hope will be an open game. He's even managed to avoid picking Duncan Weir on the bench, which is the right call.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:56 pm

Weir isn't even in the squad!

Apparently Ford and Russell are vice captains - going to be interesting seeing Russell in a leadership role!

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Weir isn't even in the squad!

Apparently Ford and Russell are vice captains - going to be interesting seeing Russell in a leadership role!

Even better.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by nickj on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:59 pm

Biggar failed his HIA today, I wonder if Finn's next on the list? Weir may find himself on the bench at some point if Finn's does head off

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:06 pm

At this rate Finn's career is probably better served avoiding the tour at all costs!

I jest of course, and I think Ford will be called up before Russell.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:At this rate Finn's career is probably better served avoiding the tour at all costs!

I jest of course, and I think Ford will be called up before Russell.

Both would be better served staying with their respective country.

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by tigertattie on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:48 pm

To me it's a no brainer

Ford called up and Farrell picked at 12

The other option would be to have Farrell at 10.

Finn is just too flaky to be a Lions class stand off.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:33 pm

Very good article from John Barclay - a very eloquent man.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40145120

Apparently Scotland are going to play the fastest pace of any team in world rugby - will be interesting to see what that looks like!

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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:10 pm

That was a nice read, I always rated Barclay.
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Re: Italy v Scotland, 10 June

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