Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

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Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:39 am

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:40 am

Team News for England is that Ben stokes is passed fit and Jason Roy retains his place ahead of Bairstow (the right call imo)
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:03 am

Rashid doesn't play but Jake ball does in his place.

Don't like that decision personally
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:55 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Rashid doesn't play but Jake ball does in his place.

Don't like that decision personally

List of bowlers with more ODI wickets than adil Rashid since the last world cup:

Kagiso Rabada.

Ridiculous decision to drop him imo. Woakes is now injured too - not good
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:59 am

Interesting team choice.

On the one hand Morgan seems (from recent quotes ) to be wedded to picking Roy no matter what - as they have done here : which does strike me as perhaps a small sign of a lack of flexibility.
On the other , they've been ready to ditch Rashid , sacrificing variety - and also departing from the "settled team" template. Presumably this is partly because they fancy pace against Bangladesh - and also because they want the option of not using Stokes more than they have to...

But with Woakes going off the field after just two overs I wonder if the fitness assessments have been on the ball ?

Pitch looks good. Might be chasing a few.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Galted on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:31 am

A strong case could be made for including Willey, Ball, Wood and Root in the same team as the potential for commentator gaffes would be vast. Especially against India.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:41 am

Hi Alfie and all - I suspect Morgan's pronouncements on Roy involve a bit of mental gamesmanship. I doubt that retaining Roy was a complete formality. However, once the decision had been made, Morgan has to back him to the hilt. As Goose might post, Morgan can hardly say, ''Roy's playing like a tin of custard but we're prepared to have another wild punt on him. However, he'll be binned sure enough if he doesn't turn things around soon!''. Very Happy

Agree with you and Ollie about Rashid though. It's been suggested on Sky that he's missed out due to injury worries about Stokes and Woakes being able to get through enough overs. I don't like that. If there are sufficient concerns about their fitness, they shouldn't be playing and other squad players should come in. More disruptive to drop Rashid and change our tactical approach.

Yeah, pitch looks good. Fast outfield as well, as it normally is at the Oval.

Didn't see a lot of Wood's bowling in the South Africa series - he certainly looked quick today.

Meanwhile, Bangladesh 82/1 after 16. Still early stages but the Tigers would probably have settled for that whilst we would have been hoping for a bit better.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:51 am

Woakes has a side strain. That will be him out of the tournament you suspect

Big blow to our hopes that
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:52 am

I wasn't too bothered about them leaving Rashid out - I can see the sense in it given the opposition. Woakes breaking down after 2 overs, and the possible knock-on effects of Stokes having to bowl his full allocation of 10 overs do look like big concerns though

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:25 pm

VTR wrote:I wasn't too bothered about them leaving Rashid out - I can see the sense in it given the opposition. Woakes breaking down after 2 overs, and the possible knock-on effects of Stokes having to bowl his full allocation of 10 overs do look like big concerns though

What I find particularly concerning is that yet again we're mucking about with our lineup and tactics at the same time as the tournament is starting.

As for the current situation and match, Stokes could get away with bowling only 8 overs given Woakes has bowled 2 provided the others bowl their full allocation. We could also still use a bit of Root although I'm never keen relying on that.

And here's Stokes back now ....

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:30 pm

150/2 after 28.

Provided Bangladesh don't lose their heads, they should exceed 300 from here. That doesn't guarantee winning it for them on this track today by any means but it should make it more of a contest than England were hoping for.


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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:37 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
VTR wrote:I wasn't too bothered about them leaving Rashid out - I can see the sense in it given the opposition. Woakes breaking down after 2 overs, and the possible knock-on effects of Stokes having to bowl his full allocation of 10 overs do look like big concerns though

What I find particularly concerning is that yet again we're mucking about with our lineup and tactics at the same time as the tournament is starting.

I also find that a strange thing to do. Definitely an unecessary gamble wouldn't you say Guildford?

It's one thing to be confident and consider yourselves 'favourites' but the added pressure with question marks on Stokes' fitness and Bangladesh getting into a groove of sorts as they can smell blood. They are certainly a fearless bunch... good to watch them play their strokes and gather confidence.

Still hope England bat well (and win) chasing a solid target.
Looks like it could be a little either side of 300 runs about now... maybe more if they really start swinging it.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:37 pm

Seems like everytime we play Bangladesh Tamim scores a hundred
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:03 pm

is woakes so bad that he cannot come  back to ball?
that would be terrible  

and Stokes not looking at the top of his bowling is also not good for their future prosepcts in the tournament.

BD in the trajectory to touch 300

Morgan like Dhoni wants to win matches relying largely on batting....so he should fancy chasing down 300
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by NickisBHAFC on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:07 pm

Feel a bit sorry for Ball, but he is killing us out there. Annoyingly with Woajes getting injured means we can't drop him.


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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:09 pm

The decision to bring Ball in for Rashid has been a disastrous one. Ball has bowled utter tripe today
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi LD - good to have you on board.

Yeah, I'm puzzled. Not really sure what we were looking to achieve. I'm not Rashid's greatest fan but, as has been pointed out, he does get wickets in this format. Call me old fashioned (as I am! Very Happy ) but taking wickets is normally a pretty effective way of pegging back runs. Probably a too samey look to too much of England's attack today as well.

On a separate point altogether (as I didn't see it at the time), that was a fantastic catch by Wood earlier.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:20 pm

223/2 off 40.

Bangladesh obviously well placed but do they have the hitters to really make it count? These last 10 overs very important for England, a good closing performance with the ball could still see us chasing under 300 and kicking off with a win.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:34 pm

England could actually lose this, has been a bit of a disaster so far today

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:37 pm

260/2 early in the 45th. They really should bring up 300 from here.

Not sure who is going to bowl the last 5 overs - all a bit of a mess for England!

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:40 pm

VTR wrote:England could actually lose this, has been a bit of a disaster so far today

Atleast Morgan won't be able to blame the Pitch for being "too English" for the loss today...if they lose that is Wink
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:41 pm

Just what the doctor ordered - 2 in 2 for Plunkers! Bangladesh have 2 new men at the crease. We might still prevent the 300.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:43 pm

Very timely from Plunkett - checks Bangladesh by getting out the two set batsmen in consecutive balls just as they must have been eyeing up a final assault to try and score 60+ in the last 5 overs

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:58 pm

Wood finishes with 0/58 from his 10. He deserved better than that.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm

How Jake ball bowled his ten overs yet Moeen didn't is beyond me
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:11 pm

you would fancy Eng to chase down 305...but this is not an   absolute Patta pitch...
BD have runs on the board...and should they keep getting wickets....they can pull an upset

I would say 55-45 in favour of BD
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:13 pm

KP_fan wrote:
VTR wrote:England could actually lose this, has been a bit of a disaster so far today

Atleast Morgan won't be able to blame the Pitch for being "too English" for the loss today...if they lose that is Wink

Fair enough! No excuses if England lose today - will be a case of being outplayed. This isn't an easy chase despite how many England have tended to rack up lately, as there's a lot of pressure to start with a win in a tournament that has no margin for error

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:20 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:How Jake ball bowled his ten overs yet Moeen didn't is beyond me

Yep, that's why I was surprised towards the end when it seemed that was the way we were going! Given how things had gone earlier, I was expecting 10 from a Stokes/Root combo of 7/3 and another 10 from Ball/Woakes of 8/2. More than 8 was certainly too many for Ball although I guess it was felt too late to bring Moeen back then.

Generally, poor from England in selection and performance. However, it shouldn't be overlooked that it was also a poor finish to their innings from Bangladesh. Given the base they had built, a leading international team should have been expecting 20 or 30 more runs than the 305 they ended up with.

Bangladesh remain in with some chance but I definitely think they'll need 10 wickets for victory.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:29 pm

Hmm.

1/. Leaving out Rashid was an error , I think . Not much in the pitch for him today ; but he'd have provided some variety. Also suggests Morgan lacks confidence in him - as opposed to his overt confidence in Roy Smile Though I agree with guildford there - it is reasonable , good gamesmanship.
2/ Wood and Plunkett are gems . Ball is always likely to go for a few in these - TRJ might be a better bet ?
3/ Moeen might have bowled his allocation. Was oddly kept out of the attack for a while in the middle ; and then it was too late...no problem with Root bowling a few - gave some flexibility.
4/ Tamim likes batting against England !
5/ Did England "punt" on still not quite fit bowlers ? If so it came back to bite them. I fear Woakes could be gone for the tournament - and perhaps longer Sad

Good comeback at end - largely due to Plunkett clap
Keeps the target to one they really should chase.

After all the praise of the New Batting Approach : if they don't run this down it will be time to recall Cook and Bell Smile

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:38 pm

Have just seen the post of the day on the BBC with one cricket "expert" writing in who wants to drop virtually everyone with the icing on the cake being TRJ as the new number 7 to address the fact that "England have quite a tail with Plunkett at 9 today" The mind boggles

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:44 pm

As I mentioned the other day, I like TRJ. He gives it his all and he's often highly effective in the county format. However, I wouldn't want to see him bowling at the likes of Warner and Smith.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:45 pm

VTR wrote:Have just seen the post of the day on the BBC with one cricket "expert" writing in who wants to drop virtually everyone with the icing on the cake being TRJ as the new number 7 to address the fact that "England have quite a tail with Plunkett at 9 today" The mind boggles

I saw that one too Smile


Just possible the writer was tongue in cheek , maybe ? Though BBC posts sometimes attract as many idiots as Cricinfo...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Roy gone Sad

Cannot say I'm astonished. Good catch - but a weird choice of shot.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Roy is just not having a great run is he...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:48 pm

Roy is definitely a problem. Really good player in absolutely horrible form. This is a short tournament and the selectors must be very worried

Alfie - I do hope that BBC post was tongue in cheek but I am never sure!

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Hales does strike the ball well, it is a joy to watch.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:02 pm

Good to have you aboard , eirebilly thumbsup All support is welcome - and a little bit of the luck of the Irish won't go amiss...

We might need our friend Trebell as well before this one is over Smile

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:05 pm

Howya alfie Very Happy

I miss trebb's, haven't seen him in a while.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:06 pm

Neither have I.   I hope all is well with him.

Hope he appears for the Lions tour...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:08 pm

Are ye popping over to Nzed to watch a game?
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:13 pm

No won't be crossing the ditch - bit busy catching up at work after a spell of ill health - but the television cover here will be pretty good I see.
More friendly hours than cricket in England too Smile

Hales playing well. Hope he goes on today...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:15 pm

That's a shame bud.

One of these two need to stick around until at least the 40th over I feel.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Would be a good day for Root to bat long. Let the more flamboyant players provide the fireworks while he scores steadily and holds things together.

At least , that's the plan Smile

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by jimbohammers on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:25 pm

So when do England stop being stubborn and play Bairstow ahead of Roy? Next game? Or do they just carry on?

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:27 pm

jimbohammers wrote:So when do England stop being stubborn and play Bairstow ahead of Roy? Next game? Or do they just carry on?

It's a tough call because Roy has been so good for the past year and a half, but is clearly just horrifically out of nick. I don't know what I'd do tbh
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:33 pm

Thing is ; we all know how destructive Roy can be. I see a comment on Cricinfo "if Roy comes off once in the CT , England will win the match".
Which rather misses the point that they need to win all games whether he comes off or not...they've been winning with big scores lately with no contribution from Roy ; so what harm could it do to replace him with a man in sublime form ? Even if YJB doesn't produce a vintage Roy master class innings , isn't he more likely at present to produce several good brisk innings ? Likely the latter would be better than hoping for a miraculous return to form from Roy in time to do England any good in this tournament...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by VTR on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:35 pm

I think in a short tournament like this you have got to get the man in form into the team. Harsh on Roy after a good couple of years but he has completely lost his form at the worst possible time

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:39 pm

Almost identical scores for both teams at sixteen overs.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:42 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
...

Meanwhile, Bangladesh 82/1 after 16. Still early stages but the Tigers would probably have settled for that whilst we would have been hoping for a bit better.

... and England 83/1 after their 16. If we retain our wickets, I'm confident we should win fairly comfortably. The Tigers just didn't go big enough in the latter stages.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Eng going pretty well....haven't lost 3 or 4...and hence a platform is already set....making it hard to collapse from here
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

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