Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

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Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Jun 2017, 9:39 am

First topic message reminder :

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:05 pm

eirebilly wrote:I am feeling a bit trebell'ish today, very pessimistic of England's chances.

I thought you might be angling to fill the gap left by the absence of our friend from Cornwall Smile

Some one has to do the job ,eh ?

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:06 pm

alfie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:England really under pressure here. I hate to say this but I feel a collapse is immanent...

Some good bowling pinning them down a bit...certainly Morgan is feeling his way so far. But I'm not too alarmed yet : plenty of hitters to come and provided they don't panic I reckon they can still turn this into a defendable score.

We knew Pakistan had a handy bowling attack so I'm not surprised they aren't making this easy for England.

Not one batsman has looked comfortable out there, granted Pakistan are a very good bowling unit but they are also very good at run chases. Reaching a par score of around 270 on this track will still feel 20 - 30 runs short I think.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:09 pm

robbo277 wrote:England need to find the balance between building a platform for Stokes, Buttler et al to tee off and leaving them with too much to do.

From an decebt 77-1 off 15, their last 8 overs have gone 31-1. It's a long stretch of time to be going that slowly.

That's basically down to Morgan starting ultra-cautiously. I've seen him do this before though and we know he can change gears. In fact he's getting going a bit now.

The bowling has been good. But I think England will bowl well on this too.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:14 pm

eirebilly wrote:Looking at the top ODI run scorers now, goes to show just how good Ian Bell was.

Or how bad the side was that they ended up picking him for so many games. He playe da hell of a lot of ODIs to get those runs.

His career average was lower than all of Englands current top 6 except the all rounder Stokes, and every player in the current side has scored their runs at a noticeably faster rate. Once Root gets to 160 ODIs his aggregate will dwarf Bells. Morgans played more games but is closing in on Bells record with a better average and Strike Rate despite having gone through an extended period of being considered rubbish.

He was good for his time, but never a great. Same as with tests. Things have moved on since.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by robbo277 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

alfie wrote:
robbo277 wrote:England need to find the balance between building a platform for Stokes, Buttler et al to tee off and leaving them with too much to do.

From an decebt 77-1 off 15, their last 8 overs have gone 31-1. It's a long stretch of time to be going that slowly.

That's basically down to Morgan starting ultra-cautiously.  I've seen him do this before though and we know he can change gears.  In fact he's getting going a bit now.

The bowling has been good.  But I think England will bowl well on this too.

Which is good in theory, if he doesn't give it away before he's had a chance to catch-up.

It's not terminal, definitely, but it's something for these two to keep an eye on. Must keep rotating the strike, ticking over and then capitalising on bad deliveries.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:19 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Looking at the top ODI run scorers now, goes to show just how good Ian Bell was.

Or how bad the side was that they ended up picking him for so many games. He playe da hell of a lot of ODIs to get those runs.

His career average was lower than all of Englands current top 6 except the all rounder Stokes, and every player in the current side has scored their runs at a noticeably faster rate. Once Root gets to 160 ODIs his aggregate will dwarf Bells. Morgans played more games but is closing in on Bells record with a better average and Strike Rate despite having gone through an extended period of being considered rubbish.

He was good for his time, but never a great. Same as with tests. Things have moved on since.

Bell played in a less attacking England side and his job was to anchor innings'. Less games to Morgan shows that he actually did very well as an anchor for England. Lot of credit for him there.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:20 pm

Mog's looking like he is trying to force things out there which is never a good sign for him.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:21 pm

Root gone now...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:24 pm

Eng is stuck ....can't get the bowling away and Pakistan's part time spinners are also quite effective when the pitch is gripping a bit
and trying to force the pace is creating opportunities.....young Shadab has a leg-break that grips and zips off the pitch
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:25 pm

220 looking far off right now with Pakistan's bowlers well on top here.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:220 looking far off right now with Pakistan's bowlers well on top here.

Lets not over exaggerate here - England still well on for 260-280 providing one of Morgan/Stokes bats until 48th/49th over
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:35 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:220 looking far off right now with Pakistan's bowlers well on top here.

Lets not over exaggerate here - England still well on for 260-280 providing one of Morgan/Stokes bats until 48th/49th over

Provided being the operative word there... So far it is not looking likely as Pakistan's bowling is totally dominating. They are taking all the pace off the ball and England are having to generate pace in order to get them away and they are struggling to do so. Excellent from Pakistan.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:36 pm

Been out for just over an hour. Disappointed to see where we are now upon return. Good bowling?

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:37 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Been out for just over an hour. Disappointed to see where we are now upon return. Good bowling?

Excellent bowling, excellent field placing and excellent captaining.

Morgan gone now, still stand by my post that 220 is looking far away.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KO-KING on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:40 pm

God sake

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:41 pm

Really poor from Root, Morgan and Bairstow to all get in, and then not go on.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:43 pm

Its going to take Stokes and Buttler to produce something special here for England if they are going to post a score their bowlers can defend...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KO-KING on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:48 pm

Look at this guy, chuck all over

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:48 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Really poor from Root, Morgan and Bairstow to all get in, and then not go on.
Its that type of a pitch...gripping and turning, with a bit of bounce also for spinners and not easy to force the pace...
almost every one has fallen trying to force the pace

Eng must quickly re-calibrate their target...else in trying to go for 300...they might collapse to 230

all factors considered 250 will be par and a fighting total that Eng has to aim for now
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:53 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Really poor from Root, Morgan and Bairstow to all get in, and then not go on.

Better in than not at all like your man Roy!

Dissapointing rather than poor. The whole team seems to playing in their shells, maybe the weight of expectation has finally got to them? Its not the fearless England we have seen in the past two years.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KO-KING on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:55 pm

Bloody chokers vs chuckers

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:56 pm

eirebilly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Been out for just over an hour. Disappointed to see where we are now upon return. Good bowling?

Excellent bowling, excellent field placing and excellent captaining.

Morgan gone now, still stand by my post that 220 is looking far away.

Thanks, Billy. I note as well concerns about England's batters ... and with that, there goes Buttler! Lot resting on Moeen, I would think.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:56 pm

Buttler gone too, England imploding. It's been a really poor effort for me. Yes, the pitch isn't that flat, and Pakistan have bowled well, but England have shown a complete lack of intent, it's been rather like an innings from 2-3 years ago.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:57 pm

This is really poor from England - gonna need a herculean effort from the bowlers to win this one
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This is really poor from England - gonna need a herculean effort from the bowlers to win this one

Still think I am over exaggerating about reaching 220?
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:59 pm

5 down for 148 and a sub-220ish crumble has become a very probably scenario

Morgan might complain that he was entitled to a better batting friendly pitch...but that won't help......hope Eng do not come in the mind-frame of self pity...that can be disastrous
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:00 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This is really poor from England - gonna need a herculean effort from the bowlers to win this one

Still think I am over exaggerating about reaching 220?

Well I didn't expect our firing, in form batsmen to revert to playing the ODI cricket we did at the 2015 world cup thumbsup
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:01 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Looking at the top ODI run scorers now, goes to show just how good Ian Bell was.

Or how bad the side was that they ended up picking him for so many games. He playe da hell of a lot of ODIs to get those runs.

His career average was lower than all of Englands current top 6 except the all rounder Stokes, and every player in the current side has scored their runs at a noticeably faster rate. Once Root gets to 160 ODIs his aggregate will dwarf Bells. Morgans played more games but is closing in on Bells record with a better average and Strike Rate despite having gone through an extended period of being considered rubbish.

He was good for his time, but never a great. Same as with tests. Things have moved on since.

Bell played in a less attacking England side and his job was to anchor innings'. Less games to Morgan shows that he actually did very well as an anchor for England. Lot of credit for him there.

Well he obviously didnt do that well or he'd have a higher average. When you look at Trotts figures he just doesnt stack up.... averaged 14 more at the same rate as Bell in the same era. Cook was maligned as a bad ODI player yet ended with near identical stats.

The aggregate score is misleading, he wouldnt get in this side. He was only average for a specialist bat in his time. Played for a team that struggled for the most part and didnt exactly have stella competition for his spot.

If the likes of Hales, Root, Bairstow and Roy get 160 games they will likely surpass his total, and do it in a lot less balls.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:02 pm

Jeez Pakistan India final .... just as well they are on nuclear stand down at the minute

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:02 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This is really poor from England - gonna need a herculean effort from the bowlers to win this one

Still think I am over exaggerating about reaching 220?

Well I didn't expect our firing, in form batsmen to revert to playing the ODI cricket we did at the 2015 world cup thumbsup

I hate being this pessimistic but it was looking very likely early on. This has been an outstanding bowling and captaincy display from Pakistan.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:04 pm

Junaid getting beautiful reverse...which is not easy with two white ball...effectively his is 18 overs old
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:07 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This is really poor from England - gonna need a herculean effort from the bowlers to win this one

Still think I am over exaggerating about reaching 220?

Well I didn't expect our firing, in form batsmen to revert to playing the ODI cricket we did at the 2015 world cup thumbsup

I hate being this pessimistic but it was looking very likely early on. This has been an outstanding bowling and captaincy display from Pakistan.

They've been good - but aided by a distinctly average batting performance. No urgency in the running between wickets, no risks being taken - just allowing Pakistan to get and stay on top. Very England ODI performance from the pre-Morgan/Bayliss era, such a shame.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:09 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Looking at the top ODI run scorers now, goes to show just how good Ian Bell was.

Or how bad the side was that they ended up picking him for so many games. He playe da hell of a lot of ODIs to get those runs.

His career average was lower than all of Englands current top 6 except the all rounder Stokes, and every player in the current side has scored their runs at a noticeably faster rate. Once Root gets to 160 ODIs his aggregate will dwarf Bells. Morgans played more games but is closing in on Bells record with a better average and Strike Rate despite having gone through an extended period of being considered rubbish.

He was good for his time, but never a great. Same as with tests. Things have moved on since.

Bell played in a less attacking England side and his job was to anchor innings'. Less games to Morgan shows that he actually did very well as an anchor for England. Lot of credit for him there.

Well he obviously didnt do that well or he'd have a higher average. When you look at Trotts figures he just doesnt stack up.... averaged 14 more at the same rate as Bell in the same era. Cook was maligned as a bad ODI player yet ended with near identical stats.

The aggregate score is misleading, he wouldnt get in this side. He was only average for a specialist bat in his time. Played for a team that struggled for the most part and didnt exactly have stella competition for his spot.

If the likes of Hales, Root,  Bairstow and Roy get 160 games they will likely surpass his total, and do it in a lot less balls.

That is all to be proven. Right now, Bell is England's highest run scorer in ODI's (more than KP who was one of England's most attacking ODI batsmen). 5,400 ODI runs is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:13 pm

I might take Billy's 220 if it's still on offer.

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:13 pm

I was about to write...Moeen has not read the wicket and chancing his arm too much...this a graft and get set wicket

Eng might not even get 200 if they keep playing too many slashing / sloggy strokes
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:15 pm

guildfordbat wrote:I might take Billy's 220 if it's still on offer.

Right now, so would I...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:16 pm

Stokes will have to cut loose in the last 10 to get England to over 200 and hope that the tailenders stay in to see England to 50 overs.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:18 pm

England need Stokes to get them to 230 here - otherwise its game over
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:29 pm

Disappointing as this is, I cant help but admire the way Pakistan have gone about their business and completely dominated England's vaunted batting line up. Got their tactics absolutely spot on.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KO-KING on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:31 pm

10 an over from here will be enough

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by eirebilly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:33 pm

Never a run on there, complete lack of composure...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by KP_fan on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:34 pm

so many times R.O happens when a team is bogged down and under pressure
Stokes 22 of 48 balls  so far  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:35 pm

Should be noted that Pakistan were a dropped dolly of a catch away from falling well short of chasing 236 against Sri Lanka - and this pitch is assisting the bowlers more than that one was...
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:35 pm

Deary me. England have gone from playing like NZ circa 2015 to NZ circa 2017 Sad
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by compelling and rich on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:35 pm

totally out played here, pakistan have bowled well to plans but our batting has been awful.

dont rate pakistans batting line up but dont think our bowling is that great either, should chase this easily

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:35 pm

England's running has been pretty shambolic today. Previous ball should have been an easy 2, and that run was always a bit risky, though Rashid was a bit slow to set off...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Galted on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:36 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Deary me. England have gone from playing like NZ circa 2015 to NZ circa 2017 Sad

More like SA if they're being panicked into run-outs.
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:38 pm

Galted wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Deary me. England have gone from playing like NZ circa 2015 to NZ circa 2017 Sad

More like SA if they're being panicked into run-outs.

Them too
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by alfie on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:39 pm

Blimey ...I go out for a hour and all hell breaks loose Shocked

It seems England are having the batting disaster we all secretly feared...just when they can't afford it.

Slightly bemused by Olly's complaints above they they are playing like the "old" team...have they not been getting out by playing aggressive shots ? The problem seems to be that they haven't been able to score at any kind of decent rate since that first ten- fifteen overs...even Stokes seems to be restrained I see.

Have to say this pitch appears seriously tricky so I'm not abandoning hope of doing the same to Pakistan. Trouble is Pakistan will know they only need four per over...

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

Post by compelling and rich on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:40 pm

there have been balls there to be hit, pretty much hit it to the fielder every time

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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

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