Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
+21
Dolphin Ziggler
Nathaniel Jacobs
KO-KING
Mad for Chelsea
JDizzle
GSC
dummy_half
Gooseberry
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
robbo277
wisden
jimbohammers
eirebilly
NickisBHAFC
KP_fan
Pal Joey
VTR
guildfordbat
Galted
alfie
Good Golly I'm Olly
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
First topic message reminder :
So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval
My prediction is victory for Australia overall....
Should be a really entertaining tournament!
So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval
My prediction is victory for Australia overall....
Should be a really entertaining tournament!
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Pitches are so flat, what chance does any spinner barring leg spinners have a chance
KO-KING- Posts : 1052
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
india should not be bowling spinners at Zaman...he is taking the game away from India
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Ashwin getting some tap. 17 runs from his over.
Pakistan 167-1 now. Motoring
Pakistan 167-1 now. Motoring
jimbohammers- Posts : 2463
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
well India made the mistake of picking ashwin.....
first the pitch has nothing for spinners...and atleast something if you can bowl upto 90mph...hence yadav would have been better.
and in general Ashwin should be "preserved" for tests and likes of Kuldip, Karn, Chahl and Krunal tried as spinners in limited over games
first the pitch has nothing for spinners...and atleast something if you can bowl upto 90mph...hence yadav would have been better.
and in general Ashwin should be "preserved" for tests and likes of Kuldip, Karn, Chahl and Krunal tried as spinners in limited over games
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
so 339 needed by India...
pitch is flat
they are the best batting line-up in the world
at stake is the BIG prize
go get it and show you are worth it....
they should not lose any wickets in first 10 overs and not more than 2 in 30 overs then its game on
pitch is flat
they are the best batting line-up in the world
at stake is the BIG prize
go get it and show you are worth it....
they should not lose any wickets in first 10 overs and not more than 2 in 30 overs then its game on
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
My initial thoughts - based far more on any knowledge of the Oval than these teams - is that 338 won't be enough today.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Will be interesting. India have a great batting line-up, but the top order have been so good that the middle and lower orders have hardly batted all tournament, and with a decent score to chase and a big prize at stake it might not be so easy coming in cold.
Pakistan's bowling has been very good since the first game, but they haven't been put under much pressure. Expect India to as usual go for the slow and steady build, so Pakistan should go hunting for early wickets (i.e. not open with Wasim).
For me, the keys will be Kohli and Hassan. Kohli is a master of the run chase, while Hassan has taken some key wickets in the middle-overs, and will be looking to repeat that here.
Pakistan's bowling has been very good since the first game, but they haven't been put under much pressure. Expect India to as usual go for the slow and steady build, so Pakistan should go hunting for early wickets (i.e. not open with Wasim).
For me, the keys will be Kohli and Hassan. Kohli is a master of the run chase, while Hassan has taken some key wickets in the middle-overs, and will be looking to repeat that here.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Crackerjack start from Amir... At least they've got Kohli in early! Giving themselves a chance at him with the new ball.
JDizzle- Posts : 6861
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
India has to get thru 15 overs and life will get a bit easier then......for 90mph pacers there is a bit and India missed a lot by leaving out yadav i say the umpteenth time.
The entire depth of Indian bating will be tested today....they have capable batsmen until no. 10
The entire depth of Indian bating will be tested today....they have capable batsmen until no. 10
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
guildfordbat wrote:My initial thoughts - based far more on any knowledge of the Oval than these teams - is that 338 won't be enough today.
Becoming very clear why no Surrey captain has ever sought out my advice at the Oval.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Extraordinary
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
I have stated many , many times in this forum....Pandya is India's most exciting potential......he hits 140+ with the ball and
we can all see how he is batting now......
he bats like Kapil Dev
we can all see how he is batting now......
he bats like Kapil Dev
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Apalling from Jadeja, absolutely apalling. Surely he has to sacrifice himself there, given how beautifully Pandya was striking the ball?
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Was fun while it lasted
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Jadeja promptly nicks off to slip in the very next over. Should probably avoid the Indian dressing room for a while. Idiot.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Jadeja might want to get changed in the public toilets rather than the locker room right now.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Once against England might be an upset but Pakistan have come to play with bat and ball in the knockout rounds. Worthy winners if/when they close this out.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Ashwin gone.
Pakistan on the brink
Pakistan on the brink
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Massive capitulation from India under the pressure of a final. Well played Pakistan!
Good to see the trophy being shared around. Would be nice to see England win it next time.
Good to see the trophy being shared around. Would be nice to see England win it next time.
Pal Joey- PJ
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Crushing victory for Pakistan. Dominant from start to finish.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Champions Trophy a good example of why I prefer a smaller tournament with better teams over a bloated schedule.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
I like the tournament format, think it works well. I've said for a while the WC should be four groups of four, top two of each group go through to knock-out stage with QF, SF and F. Makes it a shorter and more exciting tournament IMO.
Anyway, full marks to Pakistan. They sort of wobbled their way through the group stage, and exploded into life in the kock-outs with two thumping wins over the two pre-tournament favourites. Fine performances from them
While I said I liked the tournament format, I found the actual cricket to be just a touch disappointing if I'm honest. Too many one-sided contests, and the actual quality of the cricket wasn't all that great IMO throughout despite some excellent moments.
Anyway, full marks to Pakistan. They sort of wobbled their way through the group stage, and exploded into life in the kock-outs with two thumping wins over the two pre-tournament favourites. Fine performances from them
While I said I liked the tournament format, I found the actual cricket to be just a touch disappointing if I'm honest. Too many one-sided contests, and the actual quality of the cricket wasn't all that great IMO throughout despite some excellent moments.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Mad for Chelsea wrote:I like the tournament format, think it works well. I've said for a while the WC should be four groups of four, top two of each group go through to knock-out stage with QF, SF and F. Makes it a shorter and more exciting tournament IMO.
Anyway, full marks to Pakistan. They sort of wobbled their way through the group stage, and exploded into life in the kock-outs with two thumping wins over the two pre-tournament favourites. Fine performances from them
While I said I liked the tournament format, I found the actual cricket to be just a touch disappointing if I'm honest. Too many one-sided contests, and the actual quality of the cricket wasn't all that great IMO throughout despite some excellent moments.
That was actually how the Football WC of 1966 was structured. It worked well and didn't do England any harm!
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Feel sick with a result like that in this event. Pakistan are a lousy country and they came here in 2010 and match fixed. Brought the game of in disGrace. We got robbed by the ICC. England where the real winners
Nathaniel Jacobs- Posts : 1936
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Feel sick with a result like that in this event. Pakistan are a lousy country and they came here in 2010 and match fixed. Brought the game of in disGrace. We got robbed by the ICC. England where the real winners
What a beautifully bitter response. Pakistan were clear and deserved winners - they soundly beat the two countries who people widely held as the best in the land in the semi final and final, as well as tournament favourites South Africa in the groups.
A magnificent comeback and performance from the whole team throughout. Lovely stuff
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Well done to Pakistan, brilliant performance.
India too complacent?
India too complacent?
jimbohammers- Posts : 2463
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
It was a hurtful day for an Indian supporter....and some thoughts after the dust settles on the disappointment ....I go back to may post at the start of the game as aboveKP_fan wrote:india win the toss and field first....
based on the premise that Pak is better chasing a smallish score....
and when batting first...they are likely to collapse.....
two problems with this approach:
1) violated the play to your strength theory i.e Ind to bat first post 350 and Pak out of the game
2) runs on the board are alway better than chasing in a do or die game
anyway it is what it is......the Billion plus " followership" game is on....
Ind retain ashwin...... also that doesn't matter anymore...
cricketing and skill component is only 20%.....80% of it is mental and nerves
and I think I was quite accurate then in the morning......India made one mistake that cost them gravely and a a cardinal sin.....
1) Ashwin at best is a moderate ODI spinner especially overseas.....and he is far from best recuperating from injury, missing IPL and with no competitive cricket under his belt....and on a placid pitch like this he was going to be fodder......the signs were in the BD game...the disdain with which Bangla batsmen treated him...
and selecting him was a mistake that cost India gravely...they smashed him.....he lost confidence , went defensive and became further impotent.
The damage was not in juts the 70 runs he gave...but more importantly he kept out the 90mph Yadav
--it was pace that induced some chances and kept the batsmen honest....Bumrah had Zaman caught behind for 3 and induced a few half chances.....Bhuvi and Pandya were respectable ...and 20 odd overs of spin went for 160 odd runs.....creating ZERO chances,
One more fast bowler in the sdie....hitting the deck hard at 90mph... few more chances created and taken and India could have restricted them to 275
chasing 275 is a different ball game than 340
(2) chasing by choice is a cardinal sin in a high pressure final...runs on the board are one and a half times time more for the team chasing...and once Amir produced his champion spell going into 7th gear.......the middle order became hopeless and lower middle order barring Pandya despondent and just gave up....with consequences of the defeat / fan reaction more on their mind.
(3)A word on Pandya.....I have so many times called him the most exiting talent in India.....he was half a Ben stokes a year back and now 2/3rd of a Stokes now...and rapidly rising.
his batting today was reminiscent of Kapil dev...and he can bowl at 140 kph+ too......it's a matter of time before he plays test cricket and that will further improve his bowling.....
He was on to something special today the way he was striking the ball with no fear...would not have won the game but would have swing momentum to put Pak on the defensive and others lower order who have the skill and just gave up would have batted with more purpose....once momentum favored them a bit....
we needed only 3 more explosive overs out of him to see the shift in momentum
I tried very very hard and still cannot figure how Jadeja , a street smart, clever and switched on cricketer....called and then did not take that run....
and worse how did he not sacrifice his wicket to keep Pandya alive for a bit longer........
lastly...India needs to try and groom wrist spinner for overseas games ( both ODIs and tests) because I have a feeling that in-spite of all the improvements we have seen from ashwin , even when he is fully fit....he may not be a match winning or game changing spinner
Kuldeep yadav is on the tour to WI for the ODIs.....hope he builds his credibility after that great debut against Aus.
Karn Sharma should also come in reckoning again as would Chahl for ODIs
Well Done Pakistan......mercurial, talented and I am quite happy to see a dawn of new era led by sarfaraz, coached by Micky Arthur....
a strong Pak is good for international cricket....only hope wI could become competitive too
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Well. Cricket eh!
Good for the sport to see unexpected champions and teams able to beat each other by being better on the day. You can't begrudge Pakistan's route, they beat the 3 favourites along the way.
Every team had a bad day, England's came at the wrong time ...Pakistans at the right time. The cliches about them are true, talented players too often underperforming but up for the big games.
I agree with the comments above regarding the format. It's so much better than the world cup. But also yes for some reason almost all games saw one team get ahead and stay ahead. Many batting collapses. We've certainly seen the value of wicket taking bowlers.
Runs have for the most part been there for good batting ...but no so easy that we have seen truly enormous scores. Overall the pitches have been the right balance and not flat or purely for seamers.
One downer...there was a riot following the game in Leicester between Pakistan and India fans with of number of people hurt. The police were totally unprepared for it.
Sad for a city that is famed for its diversity and lack of tensions of this kind. Hopefully it's just a one off.
Good for the sport to see unexpected champions and teams able to beat each other by being better on the day. You can't begrudge Pakistan's route, they beat the 3 favourites along the way.
Every team had a bad day, England's came at the wrong time ...Pakistans at the right time. The cliches about them are true, talented players too often underperforming but up for the big games.
I agree with the comments above regarding the format. It's so much better than the world cup. But also yes for some reason almost all games saw one team get ahead and stay ahead. Many batting collapses. We've certainly seen the value of wicket taking bowlers.
Runs have for the most part been there for good batting ...but no so easy that we have seen truly enormous scores. Overall the pitches have been the right balance and not flat or purely for seamers.
One downer...there was a riot following the game in Leicester between Pakistan and India fans with of number of people hurt. The police were totally unprepared for it.
Sad for a city that is famed for its diversity and lack of tensions of this kind. Hopefully it's just a one off.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Feel sick with a result like that in this event. Pakistan are a lousy country and they came here in 2010 and match fixed. Brought the game of in disGrace. We got robbed by the ICC. England where the real winners
What a beautifully bitter response. Pakistan were clear and deserved winners - they soundly beat the two countries who people widely held as the best in the land in the semi final and final, as well as tournament favourites South Africa in the groups.
A magnificent comeback and performance from the whole team throughout. Lovely stuff
Aye, his grapes are well sour.
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Feel sick with a result like that in this event. Pakistan are a lousy country and they came here in 2010 and match fixed. Brought the game of in disGrace. We got robbed by the ICC. England where the real winners
What a beautifully bitter response. Pakistan were clear and deserved winners - they soundly beat the two countries who people widely held as the best in the land in the semi final and final, as well as tournament favourites South Africa in the groups.
A magnificent comeback and performance from the whole team throughout. Lovely stuff
Aye, his grapes are well sour.
I'm quite keen to try this game of in disGrace though. It's got to be better than kabbadi.
Galted- Galted
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
I didn't see that coming, I'd already awarded India the trophy before the final! I hope England have taken note, the bowling side of the game is pretty important and I think has been neglected. That needs fixing before the next World Cup, with two years now to identify a couple of better bowlers than the likes of Ball and Willey (assuming they are out there)
I think Pakistan benefited from a couple of things in the end. Experience from touring England last year, and facing four must-win games in a row. Maybe cruising through the group stages in England's case, and most of the group stage and a very easy semi-final in India's case didn't do either team any favours
I think Pakistan benefited from a couple of things in the end. Experience from touring England last year, and facing four must-win games in a row. Maybe cruising through the group stages in England's case, and most of the group stage and a very easy semi-final in India's case didn't do either team any favours
VTR- Posts : 4881
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
VTR wrote:I didn't see that coming, I'd already awarded India the trophy before the final! I hope England have taken note, the bowling side of the game is pretty important and I think has been neglected. That needs fixing before the next World Cup, with two years now to identify a couple of better bowlers than the likes of Ball and Willey (assuming they are out there)
I think Pakistan benefited from a couple of things in the end. Experience from touring England last year, and facing four must-win games in a row. Maybe cruising through the group stages in England's case, and most of the group stage and a very easy semi-final in India's case didn't do either team any favours
Interesting note about the seam bowlers there VTR...also interesting that someone on this forum has penned a little blog about it too....https://5nerdsgo.wordpress.com/2017/06/16/english-one-day-cricket-the-seam-bowling-future/
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Nice blog - 2 years is a long time in sport, so will be interesting to see if any of those names make it by then. Tom Curran is definitely a decent shout. I think Ball will probably stay as a Test bowler, Willey seems more suited to T20s. Finn may flatter to deceive for the 50th time in his career, and an uninjured Stokes would be a big help
And finally, I know the ship has long sailed but Pakistan had genuine wicket-taking threat, which is why I always wanted Broad in the team as a one-off to have a tilt at winning the tournament. Surely he would have done far better than Ball?
And finally, I know the ship has long sailed but Pakistan had genuine wicket-taking threat, which is why I always wanted Broad in the team as a one-off to have a tilt at winning the tournament. Surely he would have done far better than Ball?
VTR- Posts : 4881
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
How many other permanently injured medium pavers who have barely played any limited over cricket at all in the last 2 years took enough wickets inbthis tournament to make a significant difference?
I'm pretty sure that England lost due to their awful performance with the bat. Not (the) Ball
I'm pretty sure that England lost due to their awful performance with the bat. Not (the) Ball
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
The point is, once the batting failed, we didn't really have any firepower with the new ball to make a game of it. All Pakistan had to do was see off Wood and it would be an easy win from there. We'll never know what might have happened of course, but it never looked likely we could get Pakistan in early trouble
VTR- Posts : 4881
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Tbh Broad has been poor in the one day cup this year, and wasn't as good in one day stuff as in tests anyways I got no problem with them sticking with what worked - and that loss was the batting fault really
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Ok so we should have picked players who dont exist. And Woakes who was injured. And asked Stokes to have one of his good days. And reminded Pakistan that they cant bat and had concentrated solely on their bowling.
Its not like we havent had extensive specialist coaching and development programmes for years to unearth this generation of superstar bowlers. The lack of a permanenet spin coach maybe hurt us there but its not like they have been wilfully ignoring the development of bowlers...its just we havent been good at getting genuine strike ones. I dont think its through any lack of focus, if anything theres been a disctinct move away from part time dibblers and conatining bowling toward selection on pace.
Its not like we havent had extensive specialist coaching and development programmes for years to unearth this generation of superstar bowlers. The lack of a permanenet spin coach maybe hurt us there but its not like they have been wilfully ignoring the development of bowlers...its just we havent been good at getting genuine strike ones. I dont think its through any lack of focus, if anything theres been a disctinct move away from part time dibblers and conatining bowling toward selection on pace.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
I'm more looking at the idea going forward. Still a lot of room for improvement. One more strike bowler would massively improve the team, and I think is needed or we will end up disappointed again. That could be Woakes, Finn may come back, Ball may even develop into one. Not many teams win things on batting alone
VTR- Posts : 4881
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Woakes is our best odi bowler
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread
Yep, was a shame he broke down. Let's hope we can keep Wood fit otherwise the cupboard is bare. Two years now to develop a squad with a bit more depth
VTR- Posts : 4881
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» Champions Trophy 2017 Squads
» The 6th Place Trophy - The 2017/18 Premier League Thread
» Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy
» Champions Trophy - Team of the Tournament
» Champions Trophy Tipping Comp
» The 6th Place Trophy - The 2017/18 Premier League Thread
» Ranking the Teams for the Champions Trophy
» Champions Trophy - Team of the Tournament
» Champions Trophy Tipping Comp
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