So who comes in for Woakes?

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So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by SimonofSurrey on Fri 02 Jun 2017, 7:26 pm

Sensible choice - Toby R-J
"Please no!" choice - S Finn
Player others would rather not face choice - S Broad
Left field choice - T Curran
Very left field choice - Helm/S Curran

What do people think?


Last edited by SimonofSurrey on Fri 02 Jun 2017, 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : small typo)

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by VTR on Fri 02 Jun 2017, 8:24 pm

Would like to see Broad, I feel he can still be way more dangerous with the new ball than someone like Willey. I bet it will be Finn though who will no doubt then leak about 8 an over

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by NickisBHAFC on Fri 02 Jun 2017, 11:47 pm

One of the Curran brothers for me. But I suspect it will be Finn. Wouldn't touch Roland Jones, would sooner see Broad or Jordan.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by alfie on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 6:06 am

Probably the best choice would be Broad provided he is at full fitness and rhythm - he is certainly a better bowler than any of the others , including those already in the squad.
However they may have resolved to reserve him , like Anderson , just for Tests , in the interests of preserving key assets for the area in which they are most needed.
In which case I would favor Roland-Jones : one "dead" ODI is not much of a sample size ; but I liked what I saw in that game against SA. He played spiritedly with the bat ; and his bowling - in a hopeless situation - looked quite promising. Not saying he is the new star - just that he seems to offer more in all round ODI skills than Finn (who can be terrific with the white ball but doesn't seem to be quite at his best at present )
At the moment a Curran would be a punt. Might come off ; but do England need to be trying to pull rabbits from hats at this stage ? Better times to try a new player - OK you can use that argument against TRJ too ; but at least we have had a look at him against a strong top level opponent - we know he won't freeze.


The choice does matter : given Ball has been leaking runs , Willey not too impressive and Stokes a fitness query , the reserve won't just be there to warm a bench and run drinks.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by KP_fan on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 7:59 am

Broad makes sense.....

he has had a long rest since India test series...
CT is a small tournament at home not likely to stretch him much

and Board can bat too if Eng are in a position of 15 off last two overs... Woakes was a proper all rounder ....and his replacement ideally should have some skills with the bat...
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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 9:45 am

For England just as a tournament is starting, history shows that nothing should surprise us regarding selection and change of approach. However, to my mind, it would be very odd to go back to Broad now. It seems that he's been viewed recently as purely a Test bowler and so rested and not considered for white ball internationals. Are we now going to look at him in a different way? If he was going to be in the mix, shouldn't that have been settled upon earlier rather than being a call made at the thirteenth hour? In any case, his form for Notts in this season's RL 50 has not been startling (a decent economy rate at under 5 but just 6 wickets at above 46).

If we don't go back to Broad, I think Roland-Jones is the best option of those now available. He's not earth shattering but he's a solid professional who knows his game. Other than Broad, probably the one who most resembles Woakes. Certainly no mug with the bat and a clean striker of the ball.

Despite (or because of) being a Surrey supporter, I wouldn't advocate either of the Currans. Certainly not Sam; although, incidentally, it's his nineteenth birthday today - I can just see those corny words being put into his mouth by sports hacks about it being a present he never expected! Whilst he has talent, it hasn't properly come out yet and Surrey are currently disadvantaged by an overreliance on him. Him being called up would also serve little practical purpose as he would most likely be understudy to fellow left-armer Willey who himself is a reserve. The one with a much better chance of getting the nod is 22 year old brother Tom. Rarely bowls a bad ball and is trusted at the death with some justification by Surrey.  However, I'm not convinced he's got the variety needed at the top level.

Like other posters, I wouldn't trust Finn. Simple as that. Helm is one who should be kept on the radar but this tournament has come too quickly for it to be his time.

The only other possible available contender I can think of is Craig Overton. He's done well for Somerset in the RL 50 and is currently playing for the Lions together with several of those mentioned above. Along with his twin brother Jamie, he seems to have been around for yonks but is only 23. Possibly not quite polished enough and a little behind other Lions' contenders but he can bowl fast and hit a cricket ball. The definite outsider but sometimes outsiders come home.

The reason I keep harping on above about availability is that the bowler I would have seriously considered but for a current back injury is Dernbach. Far more mature and reliable than when he was being laughed out of the England team. His performances in this season's RL 50 for Surrey support that opinion although, as I say, his injury makes that purely academic.

I've heard it said that the replacement will be named today after the Lions game. That tends to suggest he'll come from there although with England you never know!

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 11:08 am

If you're looking for a direct replacement then id go for Roland Jones. He's had an impressive season in the 50 over comp. Should be rewarded for that with a call up in my opinion.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

I'd imagine Tom Curran will be called into the squad to replace Woakes. I would like to see Willey replace Woakes in the side itself (Willey like Woakes I think is good with the new ball, and ok at the death, and he can hit a long ball - he isn't as good as Woakes, but he's the nearest to him we have imo). I expect it will Ball who actually replaces him, for some reason they seem to have a lot of faith in him in the one day stuff, when he's never really justified it.

Agree with Guildford on the Broad comments - no idea why he has suddenly become a contender again, when you have guys like Roland Jones, Willey, Ball already in the squad as replacements if I were them I'd be pretty peeved if Broad was called up into the side automatically, when he has done little to justify it.
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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by alfie on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 2:30 pm

I was pretty much with guildford there until he brought up Dernbach Smile
Seriously I will accept he has done a job for Surrey , and he may indeed have become more reliable : but I can't believe they would even consider taking that chance again ; I'd sooner see Jordan ! It's academic anyway as you say , he's injured.
Overton is an interesting one. Maybe.
But it seems if they listen to 606v2 , it will be TRJ .


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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 3:08 pm

Alfie - an understandable reaction re Dernbach. Yes, it would be a brave selection to recall him but wouldn't it be a cowardly one to ignore him if he is now the best white ball bowler in the English domestic game as I believe and his performances seem to show? Anyway, injury prevents anyone making the wrong call! Smile

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 3:18 pm

Meanwhile, neither Overton or Tom Curran doing their cause any harm with the bat in today's Lions match. They put on an unbroken 50 partnership for the 8th wicket against South Africa A in just 4.1 overs. 34 for Overton off 18 balls and 28 off 16 for the Surrey man.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by alfie on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 3:23 pm

Nice to see that a number of these "next generation" fast bowlers can handle the bat : Broad and Anderson won't last forever ; and it will be handy if the eventual replacements are proficient in more than one role.
(Wood and Woakes at the moment look the next men up. But the former is a bit of a regular visitor to the sick bay - will need other prospects)

Off topic , I guess , but I thought worth noting.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by wisden on Sat 03 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

IMO David Willey comes into the side...and to be honest i think Tom curran should be added to the squad, but it will most likely be Finn..

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:05 am

It is Finn unsuprisingly if somewhat depressingly.
I agree Willey is likely to play in his spot, enabling them to keep the 6 bowlers.

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Re: So who comes in for Woakes?

Post by alfie on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:53 pm

Ah well...Finn - when he gets it right - is a good white ball bowler ; and they hardly need extra batting .

Agree Willey will be ahead of him anyway , especially given the weather conditions being predicted , which really ought to suit his new ball swing. If they have all the bowling options he shouldn't need to bowl late in the innings.

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