Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

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Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Blues British & Irish Lions
7 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

19 June 1993: Auckland 23 - 18 British & Irish Lions

18 May 1983: Auckland 13 - 12 British & Irish Lions

23 June 1977: Auckland 15 - 34 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Blues 
15 Michael Collins
14 Matt Duffie
13 George Moala
12 Sonny Bill Williams
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Stephen Perofeta
09 Augustine Pulu

08 Steven Luatua
07 Blake Gibson
06 Akira Ioane
05 Scott Scrafton
04 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parson
01 Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Hame Faiva
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Sione Mafileo
19 Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Kara Pryor
21 Sam Nock
22 Ihaia West
23 TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai

British & Irish Lions

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

C. PREVIEW



Last edited by George Carlin on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 7:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:05 am

It has quite clearly been Henderson but whatever helps you sleep.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:11 am

Potentially last game we could win! Great to see Ken Owens make a full recovery to start, didnt look like he'd be playing just a few weeks ago.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by ebop on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:11 am

EST wrote:That's a very tasty Blues backline - I think Matt Duffie is a great player, he was a try scoring machine in League.
Good call, Duffie has played well this year for the Blues. He was pretty underwhelming last year but has found his feet.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:13 am

SamTheQuin wrote:Potentially last game we could win! Great to see Ken Owens make a full recovery to start, didnt look like he'd be playing just a few weeks ago.
Let's hope he is actually fit...

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:13 am

TightHEAD wrote:Why is everyone knocking AWJ?

He played as well as he can these days and it wasn't a surprise he was very average to anyone who watched the 6 Nations.


He is suppose to be the best lock in the NH, not very average. Is he still carrying an injurie from the 6ns? Gwlad said Henderson should not be given another chance. My point is AWJ is supposed to a better player than Henderson (Experienced Lion ) so he should up and running from the get go. Which he was not was he?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:16 am

RDW_Scotland wrote: Mikey

...that bad huh? Fair. Your comment is duly noted thumbsup.

BTW was it one of my comments previously removed? I can't remember being that bad this morning; if so then I'll get more coffee.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:17 am

Patrick Tuipulotu - pretty sure he's capped. Why is he not starting?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by kingelderfield on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:19 am

Well buckle yourselves in people, this where things begin to get really tasty.
In comparative terms every game now is of test match standard and to be realistic in the circumstances we have to expect losses. However the name of the game will be, progression, if we win or lose. Do we improve each game, do we become tighter or does the attritional tipping point overcome our efforts.
There are a number of changes for the Blues leaving plenty of excitement on their bench. This will be the seasons biggest game for them as they're not qualifying for the S15 ko stages.
So tin hats at the ready, time to front up and learn from the experience, because as everyone knows only the tests count.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by hugehandoff on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:20 am

You can maybe get a bit of a feeling as to a pecking order with this selection. If I was Gats I would be reserving a first start for my stronger players against the Crusaders. But at the same time this is an opportunity for this selected squad to put their hand up. It maybe someone we don't expect who goes well like a Haskell, Lawes or Biggar. Hopefully Gats has genuine selection problems rather than having to pick whoever has been least bad?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:20 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote: Mikey  

...that bad huh? Fair. Your comment is duly noted thumbsup.

BTW was it one of my comments previously removed? I can't remember being that bad this morning; if so then I'll get more coffee.

As I said I'm assuming it was a joke but you know what these threads can get like. Any comment like that can be taken the wrong way (especially when the written word removes any kind of tone of expression) and set things off so I like to be proactive with removing things before that can happen. OK

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by EST on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:29 am

ebop wrote:
EST wrote:That's a very tasty Blues backline - I think Matt Duffie is a great player, he was a try scoring machine in League.
Good call, Duffie has played well this year for the Blues. He was pretty underwhelming last year but has found his feet.

He just seems to make very good decisions whenver I watch him play. Not a huge bloke, but quick, good in the air and an arch finisher. If I remember correctly, he had serious problems with his knees, when at the Storm, so it's good to see him stringing some games together.

Ioane and Duffie are probably as potent a wing combination as any the Lions can put out.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:31 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Patrick Tuipulotu - pretty sure he's capped. Why is he not starting?

I suspect it's because he played 80 minutes on Friday in Apia
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Winzer on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

That pack looks pretty good for the Lions, the backs maybe a little concern whether there is enough creativity.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by eirebilly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:49 am

As I said before, I prefer Payne as a 15 in the NH style of game but I think he will be very good at 13 against the AB's.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:49 am

That's a pretty small Lions back three. I hope they are practising dealing with cross field kicks and up and unders. The NZ Baa Baas did well with those on Saturday, and I don't see Halfpenny, Nowell and Daly doing much with the aerial stuff. In fact I'm slightly unsure of Daly as a winger - I'd prefer him at 13, Payne at 15 and Liam Williams on the wing. Biggar can take the kicks and Halfpenny can watch from the bench. That would have been a smarter line-up in my view.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:58 am

I don't think Daly is a great winger either but he can be a bit of a problem at 13 with his often poor defence. He's a bit of an odd selection really, not that great in any position but good in a number.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by ebop on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

kingelderfield wrote:In comparative terms every game now is of test match standard and to be realistic in the circumstances we have to expect losses.
I don't think so at all. If a single SR side or the Maori ABs win a game then that'd be a massive achievement. My default is to think the ABs will win every game but they don't. One game in and there's no need to be expecting losses.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

marty2086 wrote:Theres a difference between not getting with the ethos and thinking they would get beat
JPR didn't just predict a loss. He openly criticized Woodward's selections, and management of the tour almost as soon as the squad was announced.

You can either hold that JPR was out of order in 2005, or accept that any similar criticisms of players and management in 2013 and this year are fair comment. You can't hold both views and be consistent.

At the time, I thought JPR showed poor form airing his views. I thought he had responsibility as a former Lion to get behind the effort no matter what reservations he had in private. Now, I think I was being unreasonable. There's should still be room for courtesy and tact, but the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to this kind of public statement.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by kingelderfield on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

There are if buts and maybe's all over the park, but the point is rugby is a team game and that has to be our strength. If we play with one determination then we will do ourselves justice. If that is enough to win is to be seen but we have to front up and stand together.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think Daly is a great winger either but he can be a bit of a problem at 13 with his often poor defence. He's a bit of an odd selection really, not that great in any position but good in a number.

That maybe makes him the perfect squad selection - he's a young talented player and can cover 11, 13, 14 & 15. Given that last tour we had to call up Shane feckin Williams then Daley should provide good cover to the backline.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:09 am

Yea I get that, but I'm not sure he's "Lions's class" in any of these positions. Handy to be around the squad though I guess.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

What is Lions class though? I would say he performed better than over 50% of the Lions at the last 6 Nations.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:13 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Patrick Tuipulotu - pretty sure he's capped. Why is he not starting?

I suspect it's because he played 80 minutes on Friday in Apia

That makes sense. I didn't realize it was such a short turnaround for those guys too, but now I remember watching the end of the Reds game where they won in the closing stages in typical kiwi counter-attack fashion.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:17 am

Scottrf wrote:Playing Sexton and Farrell together 10/12 also means involving all of your FHs in one game. Can't see him doing that often, so can't see it being trialed seriously before the tests.

Not necessarily. England don't use a third fly-half in the match-day 23 when they start Ford and Farrell.

Gatland could pick Sexton and Farrell vs the Crusaders with Te'o on the bench. Then Biggar to start at 10 in midweek with whoever he wasn't going to use against the Maori on the bench. Or Laidlaw on the bench offering cover at 9 and 10 if he had to, and just hope Biggar manages the 80.

It would be more likely had he given himself a more established 4th choice 10, but I don't think it's outside the realms of possibility.

hugehandoff wrote:You can maybe get a bit of a feeling as to a pecking order with this selection. If I was Gats I would be reserving a first start for my stronger players against the Crusaders. But at the same time this is an opportunity for this selected squad to put their hand up. It maybe someone we don't expect who goes well like a Haskell, Lawes or Biggar. Hopefully Gats has genuine selection problems rather than having to pick whoever has been least bad?

Definitely is, I think team has a midweek vibe about it. There's enough likely test starters and contenders to keep the team interested, but I doubt we'll get more than 5 starters from this team.

Also agree that the players playing just need to shove their hands up in the air. A big performance and win against the Blues coupled with a loss on Saturday could see any of these players shift into the Saturday team before the Maori game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think Daly is a great winger either but he can be a bit of a problem at 13 with his often poor defence. He's a bit of an odd selection really, not that great in any position but good in a number.

That maybe makes him the perfect squad selection - he's a young talented player and can cover 11, 13, 14 & 15. Given that last tour we had to call up Shane feckin Williams then Daley should provide good cover to the backline.

Although I don't personally see him as a good fit there, I think his first couple of England appearances saw him coming on at 12. Could do the job in an emergency.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:19 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Theres a difference between not getting with the ethos and thinking they would get beat
JPR didn't just predict a loss. He openly criticized Woodward's selections, and management of the tour almost as soon as the squad was announced.

You can either hold that JPR was out of order in 2005, or accept that any similar criticisms of players and management in 2013 and this year are fair comment. You can't hold both views and be consistent.

At the time, I thought JPR showed poor form airing his views. I thought he had responsibility as a former Lion to get behind the effort no matter what reservations he had in private. Now, I think I was being unreasonable. There's should still be room for courtesy and tact, but the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to this kind of public statement.

No comparison between the disaster of 2005 and the success of 2013. Also singling out JPR is a bit daft, can you point out who didn't criticise the 2005 horror show apart from Sir Clive?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:22 am

So what is the ethos mikey? Talk about the lions as our own team? Pretty much what is happening.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by ebop on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:23 am

Gatland is playing his cards right so far

Going under the radar is how I'd describe it
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:37 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So what is the ethos mikey? Talk about the lions as our own team? Pretty much what is happening.

....and not criticise individuals based on their nationality. And great, I suggest you keep up the support thumbsup.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:44 am

No one that I've seen has. Have you got any examples or do you mean some Welsh players have been criticised?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:45 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:No one that I've seen has. Have you got any examples or do you mean some Welsh players have been criticised?

Yes. Almost everyone gets criticised, he defends the Welsh ones and then complains that people aren't in the Lions spirit. If he wants to get in the Lions spirit he should defend Laidlaw, Sexton, Henderson etc.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by eirebilly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:50 am

robbo277 wrote:

Although I don't personally see him as a good fit there, I think his first couple of England appearances saw him coming on at 12. Could do the job in an emergency.

I said earlier (maybe on another thread) that I feel that Daly could make a good playmaking 12 for the Lions. To me, 12 is a key position when playing the AB's as I feel if you try to bosh them they will simply out run you. Play to out run them and they may be taken aback. When Ireland beat the AB's, they set a backline that caught the AB's somewhat cold.

You simply cant be predictable when playing the AB's.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:51 am

SBW will be coming into the match hungry - he's fasting during daylight hours during Ramadan http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11870002

Granted that's a bit easier in winter than summer, but must make training tougher, and evening games tricky
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by munkian on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:54 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:SBW will be coming into the match hungry - he's fasting during daylight hours during Ramadan http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11870002

Granted that's a bit easier in winter than summer, but must make training tougher, and evening games tricky

Just have Jamie George going through a family bucket of KFC on the bench, that'll keep him distracted.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:55 am

Think it was amir khan who was talking about training during Ramadan. He alters his timing ie earlier when still dark but he of course trains individually. Must be mighty tough in a team sport.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:...Also singling out JPR is a bit daft, can you point out who didn't criticise the 2005 horror show apart from Sir Clive?
I didn't single JPR out, he singled himself out. He's happy to say he led the criticism of Woodward.

You can't look at how 2005 and 2013 turned out, and then declare whether it's appropriate for critics to be carping while the tour is on. It's either fair all the time - and fair now - or against the ethos, in which case JPR violated the code.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:SBW will be coming into the match hungry - he's fasting during daylight hours during Ramadan http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11870002

Granted that's a bit easier in winter than summer, but must make training tougher, and evening games tricky

Imagine being one of the 361 muslims living in Oulu in northern Finland. Over 21 hours between sunrise and sunset. If their Imam is strict and applies the 30 minute rule (fast starting 30 minutes before sunrise, ending 30 minutes after sunset) they have more than 22 hours of fasting. If he is ultra strict and they have to fast while it is still light, they have several days of full fast!!! Or of course he could follow the practice of adopting the Mecca hours.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think it was amir khan who was talking about training during Ramadan. He alters his timing ie earlier when still dark but he of course trains individually. Must be mighty tough in a team sport.

There are American Football teams that do it, and move training sessions to early mornings/late evenings. For him to train during the day will definitely be hard.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 11:59 am

Scottrf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No one that I've seen has. Have you got any examples or do you mean some Welsh players have been criticised?

Yes. Almost everyone gets criticised, he defends the Welsh ones and then complains that people aren't in the Lions spirit. If he wants to get in the Lions spirit he should defend Laidlaw, Sexton, Henderson etc.

I did.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:00 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:SBW will be coming into the match hungry - he's fasting during daylight hours during Ramadan http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11870002

Granted that's a bit easier in winter than summer, but must make training tougher, and evening games tricky

Given that this is an evening kick off he won't have eaten or drunk since 14 hours or so before kick off - that's far from ideal for a professional athlete.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Winzer on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:00 pm

"Shane feckin Williams"

That would be the fourth top international try-scorer ever (no Scottish player in the history of the game having even scored half as many) and former international player of the year. Ok he had stopped playing seriously by the time he was roped in to help out in a crisis, but calling him that is pathetic.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by ebop on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:01 pm

Apparently "in this part of the world, we only fast nine hours a day - 10 hours max. In Europe and some parts of the world it's 16-18 hours. That's pretty tough"


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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:01 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:...Also singling out JPR is a bit daft, can you point out who didn't criticise the 2005 horror show apart from Sir Clive?
I didn't single JPR out, he singled himself out. He's happy to say he led the criticism of Woodward.

You can't look at how 2005 and 2013 turned out, and then declare whether it's appropriate for critics to be carping while the tour is on. It's either fair all the time - and fair now - or against the ethos, in which case JPR violated the code.

You have a knack for losing people in irrelevant stuff.

Perhaps JPR did violate the ethos. Maybe Sir Clive did. Rather than get hung up on 2005 I'm concentrating on this tour so maybe you should too.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:04 pm

ebop wrote:Apparently "in this part of the world, we only fast nine hours a day - 10 hours max. In Europe and some parts of the world it's 16-18 hours. That's pretty tough"

Back in the late '90s when I was at university Ramadan fell in January - I had a flatmate observe it one year, and in a hot NZ summer he did it pretty tough
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:05 pm

Winzer wrote:"Shane feckin Williams"

That would be the fourth top international try-scorer ever (no Scottish player in the history of the game having even scored half as many) and former international player of the year.  Ok he had stopped playing seriously by the time he was roped in to help out in a crisis, but calling him that is pathetic.

Are you really saying that he was fit to play for the Lions in 2013 (which is meant to be the best players from 4 nations) and was deserving of a call up over current international wingers? You've also made a huge jump there to assume that A) I don't appreciate Williams' achievements and B) this was an anti Welsh/Scottish moan comment.

Mikey - this was what I was talking about with people overreacting to comments that weren't meant to be taken seriously Rolling Eyes


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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:06 pm

Winzer wrote:"Shane feckin Williams"

Shane Who?    Run

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by marty2086 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:07 pm

eirebilly wrote:As I said before, I prefer Payne as a 15 in the NH style of game but I think he will be very good at 13 against the AB's.


It'll be interesting to see how he goes especially if the game opens up and theres space

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by eirebilly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:12 pm

marty2086 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:As I said before, I prefer Payne as a 15 in the NH style of game but I think he will be very good at 13 against the AB's.


It'll be interesting to see how he goes especially if the game opens up and theres space

I just think that his play at 13 is more suited to the SH style than the NH style of game. Playing NH teams, 100% at 15 as he is brilliant at bringing players into the game. For him to work at 13 though, I feel he needs a more attacking 10-12 combo and in Biggar and Henshaw, he may have that. Really looking forward to this game.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Why is everyone knocking AWJ?

He played as well as he can these days and it wasn't a surprise he was very average to anyone who watched the 6 Nations.


majesticimperialman wrote:[He is suppose to be the best lock in the NH, not very average. Is he still carrying an injurie from the 6ns? Gwlad said Henderson should not be given another chance. My point is AWJ is supposed to a better player than Henderson (Experienced Lion ) so he should up and running from the get go. Which he was not was he?

But he isn't anywhere near being the best Lock in the NH, don't confuse passion at singing an anthem with dominance in the game.

We got a performance from him that was totally predictable to anyone who has seen him play over the last year. I'm not knocking his performance on Saturday as that was as good as he is these days.

He is very lucky to be on tour.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

Shane Who Wink.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:19 pm

Howarth?
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

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