Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

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Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Blues British & Irish Lions
7 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

19 June 1993: Auckland 23 - 18 British & Irish Lions

18 May 1983: Auckland 13 - 12 British & Irish Lions

23 June 1977: Auckland 15 - 34 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Blues 
15 Michael Collins
14 Matt Duffie
13 George Moala
12 Sonny Bill Williams
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Stephen Perofeta
09 Augustine Pulu

08 Steven Luatua
07 Blake Gibson
06 Akira Ioane
05 Scott Scrafton
04 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parson
01 Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Hame Faiva
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Sione Mafileo
19 Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Kara Pryor
21 Sam Nock
22 Ihaia West
23 TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai

British & Irish Lions

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

C. PREVIEW



Last edited by George Carlin on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 7:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Guest on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.

I know you love a wind up, Gwlad. But surely if you're scratching Henderson off the test list completely then you've got to scratch off AWJ. Both were gash. As was Sexton. Are they all off the list now?

Apart from two knock-ons (expected with rustiness) what did AWJ do wrong? I wouldn't strike Henderson off just yet either - we know he's good enough he just needs another opportunity. Test 2nd row for now is Itoje and Kruis unless one of Lawes or AWJ can play themselves in which shifts Itoje to 6.


AWJ missed quite a few tackles too. As did Henderson. But agree completely that no-one should be written off yet. 1 game ffs!

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 10:43 pm

Can we have another week to gel as a team before we play again, also can we play a team thrown together of lower level players so we can win handsomely?
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Sun 04 Jun 2017, 10:46 pm

Will people stop bitching about the game, we won and we were given a real going over, which was what the squad needed 3 days off the plane.

We would have learned nothing winning by 40+ points.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Gwlad on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:11 am

Griff wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.

I know you love a wind up, Gwlad. But surely if you're scratching Henderson off the test list completely then you've got to scratch off AWJ. Both were gash. As was Sexton. Are they all off the list now?

If you get wound up then your choice. Several players including Faletau and AWJ had been written off before the tour even started! Some answered their critics others showed up poorly, Faletau showed he offers much more than Billy V and Henderson showed he isn't Lions test material. AWJ is clearly rusty but he didn't cough up a soft 5 pointer and made a real impact in the 2nd half. And Hogg best step it up if he wants to be in contention, as I hope he will be with Williams.

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Team

Post by emack2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:22 am

Gatland has said he will pick his sides on form not reputation,it`s the old class is permanent bit.
What he doesn't want to do give the impression of picking on favouritism,something his predecessors
are alleged to have done.
He has another 4 games to get the teams right,first 2 is usually about giving every one a game,Nz
will be rusty hence Samoa game.To establish a new record the cynic in me thinks and try some
combinations.
Indications are many key players won`t start the first test for NZ,player carrying injuries is a
real no no.
NO match in NZ is easy especially at test level 33 defeats or so since 1882 or there abouts only
6 of them by Lions sides.
No NZ team is easy and despite the attrition rate so far be sure the side playing the First test
will be way stronger than there last defeated side. Whistle Yahoo

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:57 am

Strong Blues side - welcome back Sonny Bill Williams:

Michael Collins, Matt Duffie, George Moala, Sonny Bill Williams/TJ Faiane, Rieko Ioane, Stephen Perofeta, Augustine Pulu; Steven Luatua, Blake Gibson, Akira Ioane, Scott Scrafton, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, Charlie Faumuina, James Parson, Ofa Tu'ungafasi.

Reserves: Hame Faiva, Alex Hodgman, Sione Mafileo, Patrick Tuipulotu, Kara Pryor, Sam Nock, Ihaia West, TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai.

So basically rests the team which beat the Reds at the weekend.

What a show of faith in the 20 year old fly half Stephen Perofeta!
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:16 am

emack2 wrote:Gatland has said he will pick his sides on form not reputation,it`s the old class is permanent bit.
What he doesn't want to do give the impression of picking on favouritism,something his predecessors
are alleged to have done.
He has another 4 games to get the teams right,first 2 is usually about giving every one a game,Nz
will be rusty hence Samoa game.To establish a new record the cynic in me thinks and try some
combinations.
Indications are many key players won`t start the first test for NZ,player carrying injuries is a
real no no.
NO match in NZ is easy especially at test level 33 defeats or so since 1882 or there abouts only
6 of them by Lions sides.
No NZ team is easy and despite the attrition rate so far be sure the side playing the First test
will be way stronger than there last defeated side. Whistle Yahoo
Alan - be honest - you think that we're going to get gubbed, don't you?
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:52 am

Lions vs Blues: McGrath, Owens, Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, O'Brien, Murray, Biggar, Daly, Henshaw, Payne, Nowell, Hogg.

My prediction above. Not a million miles from the finished article:

Lions vs Blues: McGrath, Owens, Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander, Webb, Biggar, Daly, Henshaw, Payne, Nowell, Halfpenny.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:58 am

Solid front 5 and a good balance in the back row. Going to be interesting to see how that backline gels....!

So does that leave the following still to start:

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Kruis
SoB
PoM

Murray
Farrell
JD2
Williams
North

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:58 am

Also means you can pencil in the following names for the Crusaders.

Mako Vunipola, George, Furlong, Kruis, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Murray, Farrell, North, Davies, Williams.

It will be interesting to see what he does from there. You'd think Jones and Warburton would get another game but he also needs to get an 8 in there, unless he gets O'Brien to cover.

In the backs he could go with Farrell and Te'o or Sexton and Farrell for two very different shapes. I guess he could even move Davies to 12 and give Davies and Joseph a go.

He also has a lot of flexibility in deciding whether to play Williams on the wing or at full back and who he brings into the line-up there.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Hood83 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:47 am

Gwlad wrote:
Griff wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.

I know you love a wind up, Gwlad. But surely if you're scratching Henderson off the test list completely then you've got to scratch off AWJ. Both were gash. As was Sexton. Are they all off the list now?

If you get wound up then your choice. Several players including Faletau and AWJ had been written off before the tour even started! Some answered their critics others showed up poorly, Faletau showed he offers much more than Billy V and Henderson showed he isn't Lions test material. AWJ is clearly rusty but he didn't cough up a soft 5 pointer and made a real impact in the 2nd half. And Hogg best step it up if he wants to be in contention, as I hope he will be with Williams.

Mmmm...no. He offers something very different, but not more. BV is still a huge loss.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:53 am

Faletau has his assets, much like Billy V. Billy gives you direct running and abilty to make yards in traffic like few other players in world rugby, he's a big big loss on this tour....I'm gutted he's not getting his chance to showcase his talents.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:55 am

Did AWJ make a real impact second half?
I thought he was pretty anonymous throughout. Gave away at least one pen, missed a few tackles, ineffective at lineout.
Apart from that I think he made a couple of short carries. He along with others need to improve.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by George Carlin on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:55 am

Lions team to play Blues

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by aucklandlaurie on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:34 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure that can give you jet lag then Laurie.

 If we lose it can.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:48 am

Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.


Gwlad 

Henderson may not of been that great in this match. But in all honesty AWJ was pants all the way through.

So if you say Henderson has marked himself out of the midweek games, then surely you must also rule out AWJ. Unless it is because he is Welsh is the reason you are defending him, and his performance.  AWJ should not be given any more chances to prove himself than any one else.

I do agree the first starting test locks should be Itoje and Kruis.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:02 am

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.

I know you love a wind up, Gwlad. But surely if you're scratching Henderson off the test list completely then you've got to scratch off AWJ. Both were gash. As was Sexton. Are they all off the list now?

Apart from two knock-ons (expected with rustiness) what did AWJ do wrong? I wouldn't strike Henderson off just yet either - we know he's good enough he just needs another opportunity. Test 2nd row for now is Itoje and Kruis unless one of Lawes or AWJ can play themselves in which shifts Itoje to 6.


AWJ missed quite a few tackles too. As did Henderson. But agree completely that no-one should be written off yet. 1 game ffs!

As did a few others, but I thought AWJ and Warbs did alright. Can't understand why they're being singled out but then again we had a number of people wishing for an injury on AWJ just after the squad was announced so it shouldn't have come as a surprise to me. Some people just can't get with the Lions ethos.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:03 am

You're just wumming then Laurie.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:04 am

George Carlin wrote:Strong Blues side - welcome back Sonny Bill Williams:

Michael Collins, Matt Duffie, George Moala, Sonny Bill Williams/TJ Faiane, Rieko Ioane, Stephen Perofeta, Augustine Pulu; Steven Luatua, Blake Gibson, Akira Ioane, Scott Scrafton, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, Charlie Faumuina, James Parson, Ofa Tu'ungafasi.

Reserves: Hame Faiva, Alex Hodgman, Sione Mafileo, Patrick Tuipulotu, Kara Pryor, Sam Nock, Ihaia West, TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai.

Bear in mind this is supposedly the weakest NZ team...

Is that the Michael Collins formerly of the Scarlets?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:06 am

George Carlin wrote:Lions team to play Blues

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

Some settled combinations in there, hopefully Biggar pulls his finger out and brings those backs into the game. I expect Webb will have a good game. It'll be a busy night at the breakdown as the pack is mostly made up of carriers rather than stealers!

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:06 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Strong Blues side - welcome back Sonny Bill Williams:

Michael Collins, Matt Duffie, George Moala, Sonny Bill Williams/TJ Faiane, Rieko Ioane, Stephen Perofeta, Augustine Pulu; Steven Luatua, Blake Gibson, Akira Ioane, Scott Scrafton, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, Charlie Faumuina, James Parson, Ofa Tu'ungafasi.

Reserves: Hame Faiva, Alex Hodgman, Sione Mafileo, Patrick Tuipulotu, Kara Pryor, Sam Nock, Ihaia West, TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai.

Bear in mind this is supposedly the weakest NZ team...

Is that the Michael Collins formerly of the Scarlets?
Yep. NZ U20 rep in 2013, it's his 1st year in Super Rugby
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:07 am

mikey_dragon wrote:As did a few others, but I thought AWJ and Warbs did alright. Can't understand why they're being singled out but then again we had a number of people wishing for an injury on AWJ just after the squad was announced so it shouldn't have come as a surprise to me. Some people just can't get with the Lions ethos.

You said AWJ had 2 knock ons but that's okay. Also gave away a pen. If we had 30 knock ons and gave away 15 pens would that be okay? Would probably actually give away a lot more penalties with that many scrums.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:10 am

George Carlin wrote:Strong Blues side - welcome back Sonny Bill Williams:

Michael Collins, Matt Duffie, George Moala, Sonny Bill Williams/TJ Faiane, Rieko Ioane, Stephen Perofeta, Augustine Pulu; Steven Luatua, Blake Gibson, Akira Ioane, Scott Scrafton, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti, Charlie Faumuina, James Parson, Ofa Tu'ungafasi.

Reserves: Hame Faiva, Alex Hodgman, Sione Mafileo, Patrick Tuipulotu, Kara Pryor, Sam Nock, Ihaia West, TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai.

No Rene Ranger - you can hear the Lions' medical staff's collective sigh of relief from London Wink
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by EST on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:12 am

That's a very tasty Blues backline - I think Matt Duffie is a great player, he was a try scoring machine in League.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:20 am

mikey_dragon wrote:As did a few others, but I thought AWJ and Warbs did alright. Can't understand why they're being singled out.

Faletau did well.
Moriarty and T'o did alright.
Sinckler was ok but blotted his copy book with that brain fart just before he was pulled.

The other 11 starters were in various ways and to various degrees sub-par. This seems to be the general consensus, so I disagree with both your points I quoted. The two you mention were below par and are not being singled out.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:27 am

They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:28 am

mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

They are grown men, they don't need a cheerleader sticking up for them.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:30 am

One thing I'd also query - I wanted to see Webb and Farrell vs the Crusaders as a possible test 9/10 combination. However, could the decision to play Webb against the Blues and Murray against the Crusaders possibly indicate that Gatland is thinking about going for Murray and Sexton at 9 and 10 and Farrell at 12?

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it trialled against the Crusaders.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by BamBam on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:30 am

I thought Tipuric did more than Warburton in the time he was on the field, maybe its just the blue scrum cap but I saw some powerful tackling, a nice offload and strong ruck impact from him

AWJ just gave away the ball and looked bewildered at every decision against him - I'd have to watch again but fairly sure of a couple of knock ons, a penalty at the lineout for pulling a man down, a free kick for something .. not a great start

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:31 am

mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

Could you perhaps quote a couple of instances where you believe they have been singled out (I'm guessing by English people)?

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:33 am

robbo277 wrote:One thing I'd also query - I wanted to see Webb and Farrell vs the Crusaders as a possible test 9/10 combination. However, could the decision to play Webb against the Blues and Murray against the Crusaders possibly indicate that Gatland is thinking about going for Murray and Sexton at 9 and 10 and Farrell at 12?

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it trialled against the Crusaders.

My assumption is that Farrell will play 10 against the Crusaders, with Murray at 9. If that goes well, it could easily be the Test combo - with perhaps the Osprey's and Wales pair on the bench. The cmbined effect of a series of injuries seems to be having a major impact on Sexton's form, such that he could easily be excluded from test selection.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:37 am

Haven't seen any indication from Gatland that he's considering playing Farrell at 12. Called him a fly half during selection, picked him there (although replacing Teo rather than Sexton would have been crazy).

Webb/Farrell or Murray/Farrell are both excellent options IMO.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:37 am

I can't see Farrell being played at 12 - there's hardly enough time to bed in the test 10 never mind experiment with Farrell at 12 too. Gatland has also said he sees Farrell as a World Class 10, and he was listed there in the squad announcement.

I think Murray'Farrell would be a good combo to try against the Crusaders - Webb is a great option off the bench.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by robbo277 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:41 am

LondonTiger wrote:
robbo277 wrote:One thing I'd also query - I wanted to see Webb and Farrell vs the Crusaders as a possible test 9/10 combination. However, could the decision to play Webb against the Blues and Murray against the Crusaders possibly indicate that Gatland is thinking about going for Murray and Sexton at 9 and 10 and Farrell at 12?

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it trialled against the Crusaders.

My assumption is that Farrell will play 10 against the Crusaders, with Murray at 9. If that goes well, it could easily be the Test combo - with perhaps the Osprey's and Wales pair on the bench. The cmbined effect of a series of injuries seems to be having a major impact on Sexton's form, such that he could easily be excluded from test selection.

It could well be, although I think I would prefer to see Farrell paired with Webb. I just think their styles would complement each other slightly better.

And no, Sexton's form isn't that hot, but if Gatland was thinking of pairing Sexton and Farrell in midfield when he selected the squad, I think he'd still be interested to see how it would go.

I guess either way we'll know which way Gatland is thinking of going after the Crusaders game. If he trials it he's obviously keen on the idea, and if it works he'll probably stick to it, and if not he'll ditch it. If he doesn't trial it, it's obvious he has no interest in it.

Just came to me when I was thinking of potential back-line permutations. If you have to pick Murray, Farrell and Davies and you're disinclined to pick players running against the Blues, you can add in Sexton, Te'o or Joseph. Joseph appears unlikely, so it's probably Sexton or Te'o to slot in there.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by munkian on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:44 am

Are posters aware that player' stats are easily available online to settle a few arguments ? Just sayin
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:45 am

Playing Sexton and Farrell together 10/12 also means involving all of your FHs in one game. Can't see him doing that often, so can't see it being trialed seriously before the tests.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by BamBam on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:46 am

I like the idea of a Webb/Farrell combo - It reminds me of the Care/Farrell partnership that we saw in the 6N a couple of years ago, but Webb is a better player than Care was and Farrell is miles better than he was then


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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:46 am

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

Could you perhaps quote a couple of instances where you believe they have been singled out (I'm guessing by English people)?

Yeah check the previous thread. There's Bam Bam and Trev and that's just for starters, although in fairness to them two they're consistent with their hate for AWJ and most Welsh players (all year rather than just Lions season).

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:48 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I can't see Farrell being played at 12 - there's hardly enough time to bed in the test 10 never mind experiment with Farrell at 12 too. Gatland has also said he sees Farrell as a World Class 10, and he was listed there in the squad announcement.

I think Murray'Farrell would be a good combo to try against the Crusaders - Webb is a great option off the bench.

That's probably the way it's going. I doubt Farrell will feature at 12 unless it's for one of the All Black tests.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by BamBam on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:49 am

Criticising Mr Passion/Leadership/Experience (this sounds very John Terry esque) and Warburton isn't singling them out

I praised Tipuric and spoke of a Webb/Farrell combo in my next two posts! I want the Lions to pick the best players, and based on Saturday neither Warburton/AWJ are the best in their positions

If that makes me anti Welsh then so be it

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by marty2086 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:49 am

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Henderson is one player that just marked himself out as a midweek player; there is no time for an opportunity for second chances here, he played poorly against a scratch team and was beaten for the try. Not a Lions tests lock. Hogg also seemed ponderous. Clearly the test 2nd row should be Itoje and Kruis - we can't allow the lineout  to fall apart as it did in 05 - I'd have AWJ on the bench  as he needs to start another game otherwise Lawes may be the better option for impact, though he has been questionable when recycling possession.

I know you love a wind up, Gwlad. But surely if you're scratching Henderson off the test list completely then you've got to scratch off AWJ. Both were gash. As was Sexton. Are they all off the list now?

Apart from two knock-ons (expected with rustiness) what did AWJ do wrong? I wouldn't strike Henderson off just yet either - we know he's good enough he just needs another opportunity. Test 2nd row for now is Itoje and Kruis unless one of Lawes or AWJ can play themselves in which shifts Itoje to 6.


AWJ missed quite a few tackles too. As did Henderson. But agree completely that no-one should be written off yet. 1 game ffs!

AWJ missed 1 and Henderson missed 2, there was one from Henderson close to the line and I think it was Teo'o outside the two of them where they left a big gap to be attacked and it was and were punished for it.

Those things were inevitable when throwing a team together trying to get used to each other

I think the backrow and second row were underpowered, Faletau grew into the game and Moriarty looked better early on

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:50 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.
What Lions ethos is that, then? Here's JPR Williams in 2005:

JPR: Let's talk about the Lions. I take no pleasure from saying this, but I predicted before the series that it would all go horribly wrong. What were your thoughts when you weren't picked for the first Test?... The Lions would have lost by 60 points if it hadn't poured down that night. It was a disgrace. Were you aware of the stick that Clive Woodward was taking back home? I think I might have started it!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/nov/06/rugbyunion.features

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:52 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

Could you perhaps quote a couple of instances where you believe they have been singled out (I'm guessing by English people)?

Yeah check the previous thread. There's Bam Bam and Trev and that's just for starters, although in fairness to them two they're consistent with their hate for AWJ and most Welsh players (all year rather than just Lions season).

Henderson and Sexton took the majority of the criticism then it's AWJ who was undoubtedly poor. I don't see Warburton taking any more criticism than anyone else, all a bit silly when Moriarty and Faletau were seen as the two best players.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by marty2086 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:53 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.
What Lions ethos is that, then? Here's JPR Williams in 2005:

JPR: Let's talk about the Lions. I take no pleasure from saying this, but I predicted before the series that it would all go horribly wrong. What were your thoughts when you weren't picked for the first Test?... The Lions would have lost by 60 points if it hadn't poured down that night. It was a disgrace. Were you aware of the stick that Clive Woodward was taking back home? I think I might have started it!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/nov/06/rugbyunion.features

Theres a difference between not getting with the ethos and thinking they would get beat

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:57 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.
What Lions ethos is that, then? Here's JPR Williams in 2005:

JPR: Let's talk about the Lions. I take no pleasure from saying this, but I predicted before the series that it would all go horribly wrong. What were your thoughts when you weren't picked for the first Test?... The Lions would have lost by 60 points if it hadn't poured down that night. It was a disgrace. Were you aware of the stick that Clive Woodward was taking back home? I think I might have started it!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/nov/06/rugbyunion.features

The Lions ethos.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:57 am

Why is everyone knocking AWJ?

He played as well as he can these days and it wasn't a surprise he was very average to anyone who watched the 6 Nations.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:00 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

Could you perhaps quote a couple of instances where you believe they have been singled out (I'm guessing by English people)?

Yeah check the previous thread. There's Bam Bam and Trev and that's just for starters, although in fairness to them two they're consistent with their hate for AWJ and most Welsh players (all year rather than just Lions season).

Henderson and Sexton took the majority of the criticism then it's AWJ who was undoubtedly poor. I don't see Warburton taking any more criticism than anyone else, all a bit silly when Moriarty and Faletau were seen as the two best players.

It was clearly AWJ, I just don't get peoples issue with him, unless he's managed to do a lot of sleeping around and some of them happened to be wives of V2 posters. Sexton was poor, but not as bad as made out on here so that was unfair too. The whole backline was out of sync which can't all be blamed on Sexton. Henderson did stick out like a bit of a sore thumb but his frame is quite noticeable.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by TightHEAD on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:01 am

Joe Launchbury must have watched an wondered how the hell he isn't out in NZ.
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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:03 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:They clearly are being singled out.

And for this game I'm banking on Biggar and Halfpenny being singled out. Some English just can't get with the Lions ethos.

Could you perhaps quote a couple of instances where you believe they have been singled out (I'm guessing by English people)?

Yeah check the previous thread. There's Bam Bam and Trev and that's just for starters, although in fairness to them two they're consistent with their hate for AWJ and most Welsh players (all year rather than just Lions season).

Henderson and Sexton took the majority of the criticism then it's AWJ who was undoubtedly poor. I don't see Warburton taking any more criticism than anyone else, all a bit silly when Moriarty and Faletau were seen as the two best players.

It was clearly AWJ, I just don't get peoples issue with him, unless he's managed to do a lot of sleeping around and some of them happened to be wives of V2 posters. Sexton was poor, but not as bad as made out on here so that was unfair too. The whole backline was out of sync which can't all be blamed on Sexton. Henderson did stick out like a bit of a sore thumb but his frame is quite noticeable.

Mikey I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just making really bad jokes but you've made some personal comments (about wives mainly) a few times now and I had to remove a post earlier that crossed the line. I get that you're passionate about this but there is no need to bring personal comments into it.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:05 am

It's the first game. They will get better. Some of them have to! The next team has a strong look to it and a little more abrasive.

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Re: Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

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