Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

First topic message reminder :

Blues v British & Irish Lions
7 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

19 June 1993: Auckland 23 - 18 British & Irish Lions

18 May 1983: Auckland 13 - 12 British & Irish Lions

23 June 1977: Auckland 15 - 34 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Blues 
15 Michael Collins
14 Matt Duffie
13 George Moala
12 Sonny Bill Williams
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Stephen Perofeta
09 Augustine Pulu

08 Steven Luatua
07 Blake Gibson
06 Akira Ioane
05 Scott Scrafton
04 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parson
01 Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Hame Faiva
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Sione Mafileo
19 Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Kara Pryor
21 Sam Nock
22 Ihaia West
23 TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai

British & Irish Lions

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

C. PREVIEW

beshocked wrote:My test 23  as things stand.

Mako - George - Furlong

I assume that is not based on tour form? Until the weekends match, we are unable to be completely sure but I would say that today's starters played better than the starters on Saturday, but Saturdays starters were better from the bench today (and during the game against NZ barbarians) than the bench on Saturday.

Thus so far as units McGrath/Owens/Cole were better than Marler, Best, Sinckler who in turn were better than Mako, George, Furlong. However we do need to see how the latter 3 go this weekend.

I know it was 4 years ago and SBW wasn't playing but even PSA France managed to win against the Auckland Blues while touring there...
good luck for the rest of the tour!

beshocked wrote:My test 23  as things stand.

Mako - George - Furlong

Kruis - Itoje

Stander - Faletau - Tipuric

Webb - Farrell

North - Henshaw - Joseph - Watson

Hogg

Mcrgath - Owens - Sinckler

Lawes - SOB

Murray - Biggar - Daly

As much as I hate to put him on a pedastal you arent going to see the captain left out.

I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

ebop wrote:I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

Nah - just gash.

Today and Saturday was embarrassing performances for us all (NH) considering the players we have out there.


Its one thing to lose to a very good team ( as the Blues were today), but to lose not trying (apart form the final 5 mins when we woke up and started going through phases) is another.

Not a good couple of days for my Superbru. Picked NZ to win the cricket yesterday, & the Lions today

Only 2 games in. Hopefully this inevitably disastrous tour will spell the end for the stupid and outdated Lions brand. It isn't all Gatland and his coaching team's fault - the whorish schedule is sheer insanity and expecting these players to adjust, after an already gruelling season, is totally unforgivable. It's just another scandalous way to make more money at the expense of player welfare (both mentally and physically).

Like I said, I'll be delighted if we don't end up with ruined careers. After about the 6th or 7th game, before they even reach the All Blacks, the players and coaches will be begging for the tour to end.

On the plus side we've gotten through the first two games without picking up any injuries (assuming Biggar and Payne are OK).

That's about all we can say...

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:My test 23  as things stand.

Mako - George - Furlong

I assume that is not based on tour form? Until the weekends match, we are unable to be completely sure but I would say that today's starters played better than the starters on Saturday, but Saturdays starters were better from the bench today (and during the game against NZ barbarians) than the bench on Saturday.

Thus so far as units McGrath/Owens/Cole were better than Marler, Best, Sinckler who in turn were better than Mako, George, Furlong. However we do need to see how the latter 3 go this weekend.

Londontiger I don't think it's a coincidence - Gatland has paired Mako and George with Furlong - wants to play them vs Crusaders. They haven't had much gametime but in Gatland's mind are probably the frontrunners. We'll see whether they deserve that tag.

It's why I said as things stand. It's about combinations too - it's natural to put Mako and George together and have arguably the strongest TH partnering them.

If Kruis and Itoje are 2 of the frontrunners for lock it's natural to have 2 of their team mates in the frontrow.

2 out of 10. It's almost half a flipping club season.

ebop wrote:I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

As soon as it passes I'd be sending them on the plane home.

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

As soon as it passes I'd be sending them on the plane home.

LondonTiger wrote:

ebop wrote:I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

Nah - just gash.

It's a pr1ck of a tour

Still early days

As long as Gatland keeps cool and doesn't throw his toys, which he's too experienced to do so, his team will stay tight and get better. You'd think after each game he'll get closer to cracking the code.

Thought the kicking from the Lions today let them down a bit. After 2009, NZ rugby has focused on catching and returning with interest. Kicks have to be contestable but just don't tackle in the air.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

rodders wrote:

ebop wrote:I reckon the Lions are still jet lagged

As soon as it passes I'd be sending them on the plane home.

Brutal

Think only the Crusaders will have their ABs so the remaining games against SR B teams should be a doddle. That'll boost the confidence leading into the tests.

Anyone remember the 2005 tour?

7/8 against club sides. Glorious times, will never be repeated.

Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

Ford.

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

The modern concussion protocols don't require a minimum stand down period and it all depends on how he reacts to it and how long it takes for him to pass the return to play tests - that certainly isn't something that will be known straight after the game.

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

We sure could do with another 10 players


Ford or Russel? Both could provide the spark, both are a liability.

Gooseberry wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

We sure could do with another 10 players


Ford or Russel? Both could provide the spark, both are a liability.

It'll be Rhys Priestland

I'd call up Ford ASAP but that would require Gatland to admit he got his initial selection, start him at 10 with Farrell at 12 and get that backline moving.

We saw today exactly why Lawes was picked ahead of Launchbury and why he's likely to start the 1st test, there's no better forward at getting at the opposition 10, nail Barrett early and hope it disrupts him for a bit.

Gooseberry wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

We sure could do with another 10 players


Ford or Russel? Both could provide the spark, both are a liability.

Can we win even if 25 v 15?

Hammersmith Harrier not sure many would say Lawes was lucky to be picked. He's been in good form this season.

Launchbury is unlucky to be overlooked though compared to Henderson and AWJ.

beshocked wrote:Hammersmith Harrier not sure many would say Lawes was lucky to be picked. He's been in good form this season.

Launchbury is unlucky to be overlooked though compared to Henderson and AWJ.

https://www.606v2.com/t65414p950-british-irish-lions-squad-2017#3552152

https://www.606v2.com/t65414p950-british-irish-lions-squad-2017#3552167

https://www.606v2.com/t65414p950-british-irish-lions-squad-2017#3552180

That's just one page.

Well, before the game I thought the Blues would win and that I didn't actually care if they did, as long as there was a general trend showing improvement.

Having watched the game, I would argue that the Lions were significantly better than their last hit out, their set piece was much improved and showed signs of a bit more structure in their play. They obviously have a huge amount to work on, and it's debatable if they will have enough time to improve to the level required. However, the set piece clicked and I would hope to see more attacking shape and intent next week, allied to a better defensive performance.

The biggest area of concern is the 10/12 combination, and specifically who plays 10 - I think we can all agree that Sexton has not looked himself, that's not to say he wont come good on the big occasions, but this is the worst couple of performances I can remember him clocking in. Picking three similar fly-halfs is looking like Gats biggest mistake thus far, Ford or Russell could have both offered something different.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

The modern concussion protocols don't require a minimum stand down period and it all depends on how he reacts to it and how long it takes for him to pass the return to play tests - that certainly isn't something that will be known straight after the game.

If it looked like he wasn't going to make the next two matches (not sure when you'd have to make the call), then you'd want another fly half. The alternative would be to ask Hogg, or some other non-specialist, to cover.

beshocked wrote:Hammersmith Harrier not sure many would say Lawes was lucky to be picked. He's been in good form this season.

Launchbury is unlucky to be overlooked though compared to Henderson and AWJ.

You could argue he was lucky to get an opportunity for England (through injuries) and any of the locks were lucky to tour given the level of competition and Launchberry being left at home.

Hes certainly re-established himself as a top class player after being written off by many England fans as yesterdays man, but if you'd said a year ago that Lawes would be a test Lions starter people would have thought you were bonkers.

Just in from the game, yes the ball was wet in the first half but the Blues accuracy was non existant, if you are a Lions supporter then you can take some relief that you held on to the ball better than the Blues.

 Stephen Perofeta and Michael Collins just arent up to Super rugby. personally I thought the Blues really missed Piers Francis tonight, that guy has improved massively in the last 4 months.

 Tonight was the first time I have seen Maro Itoje play live, and does anyone else wonder why he is not a blind side?

It's when you see how often Lawes let's backs take the ball off him which upsets me!

aucklandlaurie wrote:

 Tonight was the first time I have seen Maro Itoje play live, and does anyone else wonder why he is not a blind side?

Did you not see him struggle at blind side for England?

But long term yes, if he can start playing their for his club it could happen. Or you accept that you have a player on the pitch who can do the duties of a lock and have the extra flanker regardless of which position he actually lines up in.

606v2 posters right now:


Seriously, a loss at some point on this tour was inevitable. There is no need to panic. There is a need to fundamentally change how we use the possession we have, because for the second game running we have looked absolutely impotent in attack.

We have the players, the players have the attacking nous. They need to go out there play heads up rugby and start taking their chances. Whatever attacking systems Howley or Gatland have in place don't appear to be working, so drastic change has to come otherwise it will be a long tour.

What I will say however is the defence should start to tighten up as the tour goes on. A couple of positional errors from Nowell and a silly Yellow from Williams and it might have been a differant result.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's when you see how often Lawes let's backs take the ball off him which upsets me!

Im thinking of two occassions in 58 tests and god knows how many club games?
The number of times the All Blacks lose rugby games to NH sides is the same in that period, Im not sure their supporters are that upset about it.

aucklandlaurie wrote:Just in from the game, yes the ball was wet in the first half but the Blues accuracy was non existant, if you are a Lions supporter then you can take some relief that you held on to the ball better than the Blues.

 Stephen Perofeta and Michael Collins just arent up to Super rugby. personally I thought the Blues really missed Piers Francis tonight, that guy has improved massively in the last 4 months.

 Tonight was the first time I have seen Maro Itoje play live, and does anyone else wonder why he is not a blind side?

I actually thought Collins looked very composed today - and displayed quite a good kicking game. As for Perofeta, he is a young lad who took some bad options - but you surely can't write him off just yet?

I always thought that Itoje should be a 6, but his international performances have been better in the row.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 posters right now:


Seriously, a loss at some point on this tour was inevitable. There is no need to panic. There is a need to fundamentally change how we use the possession we have, because for the second game running we have looked absolutely impotent in attack.

We have the players, the players have the attacking nous. They need to go out there play heads up rugby and start taking their chances. Whatever attacking systems Howley or Gatland have in place don't appear to be working, so drastic change has to come otherwise it will be a long tour.

What I will say however is the defence should start to tighten up as the tour goes on. A couple of positional errors from Nowell and a silly Yellow from Williams and it might have been a differant result.

No this is why!!!!!!!

https://iprugby.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/screen-shot-2017-04-05-at-21-42-07.png

Same tactics as Wales will not win us many games.

Ah you're probably right the rest were just poor knock ons. He's doing something right to be keeping out Launchbury and gray. Not sure what.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:606v2 posters right now:


Seriously, a loss at some point on this tour was inevitable. There is no need to panic. There is a need to fundamentally change how we use the possession we have, because for the second game running we have looked absolutely impotent in attack.

We have the players, the players have the attacking nous. They need to go out there play heads up rugby and start taking their chances. Whatever attacking systems Howley or Gatland have in place don't appear to be working, so drastic change has to come otherwise it will be a long tour.

What I will say however is the defence should start to tighten up as the tour goes on. A couple of positional errors from Nowell and a silly Yellow from Williams and it might have been a differant result.

Right its not really panic its more told you so/worst fears confirmed.
The players are capable of better, we have seen England string together good attacking play when being a relatively inexperienced side with a new coach and capatin by just having the confidence to back themsleves. Weve seen Welsh and Irish forwards disrupt the best sides in the world when theyve been trying to get the ball moving at pace.
Why is it that these guys suddenly cant do it for the Lions? You have to hope it will improve rapidly, but worryingly its many of the pre tour front runners who seem to be struggling so far.
They didnt have a strong chance of winning the test series even if players were turning up and the side gelling, but right now we arent even seeing that. The inevitable injuries are starting bite and the squads looking thin already in some positions.
Its not the reuslt thats the issue, its how bad they were individually and as a unit and how much the style of play is falling into the worst predicitions and stereotypes of failing Gatland sides.

Gatland has a plan, and it can be brought into sharp focus by looking at key positions.

Choosing Haskell instead of Watson.
Choosing Biggar instead of Russel or Ford.
Choosing Payne instead of Ringrose.

It's brutal and ugly and so far been hilariously ineffective. Like I said as the games go on our defence will tighten. However we best get some game breakers in that back line pronto or we risk embarrassment in every game. Scoring only 2 tries in 2 matches is very reminiscent of a 6N team, can't quite put my finger on which one though...

I'm being antagonistic about it, I'll admit it, however the situation is not terminal, and we have the players required to break teams down. I think we need Farrell at 12 and a playmaker at 10 who is confident (Biggar and Sexton look devoid of this at the moment).

Davies has been great for the Scarlets so let's give him a run out at 13 this weekend with some confident play makers inside him. Create space for the likes of Ant Watson, Hogg and Seymour and they will score tries.

EST wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Just in from the game, yes the ball was wet in the first half but the Blues accuracy was non existant, if you are a Lions supporter then you can take some relief that you held on to the ball better than the Blues.

 Stephen Perofeta and Michael Collins just arent up to Super rugby. personally I thought the Blues really missed Piers Francis tonight, that guy has improved massively in the last 4 months.

 Tonight was the first time I have seen Maro Itoje play live, and does anyone else wonder why he is not a blind side?

I actually thought Collins looked very composed today - and displayed quite a good kicking game.  As for Perofeta, he is a young lad who took some bad options - but you surely can't write him off just yet?  

I always thought that Itoje should be a 6, but his international performances have been better in the row.

 I see collins as a lazy player.

 I will give Perofeta credit for depriving Payne his try in the corner, and although he only debuted at Super level last weekend, I cant help but think that he needs more time at Provincial level to mature and over-learn those basic first five skills and decision making. It would be interesting to hear Taylormans opinion.

Gooseberry wrote:

beshocked wrote:Hammersmith Harrier not sure many would say Lawes was lucky to be picked. He's been in good form this season.

Launchbury is unlucky to be overlooked though compared to Henderson and AWJ.

You could argue he was lucky to get an opportunity for England (through injuries) and any of the locks were lucky to tour given the level of competition and Launchberry being left at home.

Hes certainly re-established himself as a top class player after being written off by many England fans as yesterdays man, but if you'd said a year ago that Lawes would be a test Lions starter people would have thought you were bonkers.

To be honest I wrote off Lawes too but he seems to have bounced back - the competition of England 2nd row seems to have raised everyone's game.

Lawes took the opportunity handed to him.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Biggar failed his injury assessment. Some reports saying he may have to stand down for two weeks. If so, we'll need another 10.

The modern concussion protocols don't require a minimum stand down period and it all depends on how he reacts to it and how long it takes for him to pass the return to play tests - that certainly isn't something that will be known straight after the game.

Don't panic.. as said, there is no time period now, just has to pass the assessments. We have a couple of understudies for Biggar, namely Farrell and Sexton for the next couple of weeks, and if they don't work out, then Anscombe, Sam Davies and Owen Williams will be in New Zealand with the Welsh touring party, so any of those can easily step in.


Honestly you guys really do worry over nothing...

Webb's service is so much quicker than Laidlaw's. Combined with some good clear out work it's disappointing that the backline couldn't do more with the speed of the ball.

My one concern around Webb for the tests is his box kicking is a bit wayward at times. I counted 3 times he basically booted the ball straight down the throat of their fullback. If we do that against the All Blacks we're dead.

Be interesting to see how Murray does on his outing.

Redman wrote:My one concern around Webb for the tests is his box kicking is a bit wayward at times.  I counted 3 times he basically booted the ball straight down the throat of their fullback.  If we do that against the All Blacks we're dead.

Should have picked Wigglesworth then.

Webb's kicking was constantly long. I assumed it was a pre-ordained tactic as they were repeatedly landing 20m or so ahead of the chase, allowing for easy counter attack. Heck one time in the second half Dan Cole was the closet chaser!!!!!

In general our kicking was not good enough from all players, and when we did put in a decent kick we got the (deserved) YC.

I hope that Biggar comes through the HIA as he deserves another shot on this tour. 

If he has to go, then Ford's game against the Pumas and Russell's game against Italy on the 10th effectively doubles as an audition.

I was disappointed to here that Nowell had a "torrid" day .

Was that because he was struggling individually because the Blues were just attacking so well and consistently?

George Carlin wrote:I hope that Biggar comes through the HIA as he deserves another shot on this tour. 

If he has to go, then Ford's game against the Pumas and Russell's game against Italy on the 10th effectively doubles as an audition.

Or even G Anscombe/S Davies/O Williams (who ever plays) game against Tonga (being played in New Zealand) could be seen as an audition...

But do you really think Russell's game against Italy will provide any more information on his suitability.

But lets not panic. Gats has said the medical guys have said Biggar will be fit in a week at most, so expect to see him next play against the Maoris on the 17th...

Yeah, they'll look after him. Best to have the medical guys on standby though... just in case.

Highlights here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iArH1M9RGmE



Probably a good thing they didn't show me the lineout at the end