RG - Day 9

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RG - Day 9

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:27 am

Murray up against Khachanov after the 21-year-old upset Isner. I would have expected Murray to beat Isner and I think Khach will be an even easier match, despite the Russian's obvious talent. Getting an unseeded player in the 4th round of a slam is a bonus for Andy, after getting the short-straw of a third-round meeting with delpo.
   Nishi, after being taken to five in previous round, takes on Verdasco. You always worry about two things with Nishi - his serve and his fitness. It could be argued that the combination has prevented him reaching the very top.
   Stan should beat Monfils (what a player he could have been if he'd cut the circus act) while Cilic should have too much for Anderson.
   The French are guaranteed at least one player in the next round in the women, with Garcia taking on Cornet. Halep also in action. My dark horse - Stosur - is out. I thought Caroline W looked in good form yesterday.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by prostaff85 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:34 am

On Lenglen Petra Martic takes on 5th seed Svitolina. Would be very good for women's tennis if a player like Martic could go deep. Refreshing to see slice backhands, dropshots and volleys in the mix versus the uninspiring bulldozer tennis of Svitolina.

I remember thinking the same 5 years ago when I first saw Martic play at Roland Garros. Unfortunately she's been plagued with injuries but on the comeback trail it seems!
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Guest82 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

I think Khachanov is the real deal, future grand slam winner. Don't think he's ready to beat Murray here yet though. Murray in 4.

Anderson is in decent form, think he might beat Cilic.

Nishikori should beat Verdasco, fitness permitting.

Stan to beat Monfils. Wasn't that impressed with Monfils against Gasquet.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by naxroy on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:11 pm

murray
verdasco
cilic
stan

my bet

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by lags72 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 12:34 pm

Yes, Khachanov looks to have the weapons to guarantee a really bright future.

He is producing some outstanding tennis here and giving Murray more work than many higher-ranked guys do.

But this is turning into the sort of match where I do enjoy watching Murray ..... as he uses his superb defensive skills and all-round resilience to gradually neutralise the power of a young big-hitter who has come out all guns blazing.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by slashermcguirk on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:08 pm

This khachanov guy is very limited. Just handing away games with unforced errors. Shows how far berdych has fallen losing to this guy. I am sure he will improve but just bashing every ball with no plan B. Amazed he reached 4th round

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by slashermcguirk on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:10 pm

Not sure if I am watching a different match to you all, Murray having to do very little here, just knocking the ball back and waiting for the error.

Verdasco meanwhile takes 1st set 6-0 vs nishikori

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by alfie on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:26 pm

Kachanov may well be another young up and comer - he seems to have some nice shots in his kit. But he's not going to keep Andy on court too long today from the look of it. Probably not much longer than his average set takes against Del Potro Smile
Murray taking it a match at a time but he has to be pleased already with his progress in this tournament , given his indifferent lead in.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by alfie on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:31 pm

Ha ! Me and my big mouth Smile

Kachanov breaks back ...4-4 in the third...

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Guest82 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:34 pm

To be fair Khachanov's game is based around his power. When playing someone with Murray's defence he must be tempted to go for too much and end up making UE's.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by alfie on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:40 pm

So Murray through in straight thumbsup

But young Kachanov won't have lost too many fans there. We will see more of him.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 1:45 pm

Andy Murray through to the QF's beating Kachanov in straight sets in just over two hours. For me whatever happens here on in this tournament has shown Murray is returning to a semblance of form after fitness issues. Kachanov looks a decent prospect for the future and now inside the top 50 in the world. How far will he go? He needs fine tuning but with a little work he could be a potential slam winner in perhaps five years.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:12 pm

Nishikori on the brink of beating Verdasco in four sets to set up a QF' against Andy Murray.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by temporary21 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:13 pm

Anyone actually watching the nishikori match?  What on earth has been going on there?

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by slashermcguirk on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:17 pm

Haven't seen the nishikori match but what a random scoreline that is. When I checked it was 6-0 and verdasco a break up in 2nd set and now I update it and the match is over with nishikori taking the final set 6-0. Sounds like an odd match

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:18 pm

Nishikori is an enigma. He can play sets where he goes away and gets hammered but can then switch it on in an instant in next set. That is what seems to have happened today as well. Serve hasn't been great but he has negated Verdasco's power.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:20 pm

I think the fourth set can be explained away by Verdasco being mentally deflated by how the match was panning out.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Guest on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:36 pm

Everything seems to be clicking into gear for the top ranked players. QF's and SF's should be interesting.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:56 pm

Just watched the Murray match on tape. Very solid performance, with the UE count being decisive. Khachanov a talented hitter with no real plan B. Murray got far more cheap points on his serve than the Russian and apart from a couple of sloppy service games looked in good shape.
   Nishi up next for Andy. It will be a tough match but I'm expecting Andy to win. I was among those not too worried about Andy's indifferent form coming in to RG. I felt he would soon be back on song. He may have been helped by being out of the limelight, with some figuring he was primed for an early exit.
   Halep certainly didn't take much out of herself. Heartbreak for Martic after she led 5-2 in the third.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by temporary21 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:12 pm

It really depends on nishikoris health. Was that 6-0 set a brain fade or was he in pain? Did he push through it as Verdasco wilted?

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:26 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Just watched the Murray match on tape.

VHS or Beta-max?

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:14 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Just watched the Murray match on tape.

VHS or Beta-max?
Ha ha. My IT skills are such that I've only recently moved on from manual typewriters. Couldn't get a new ribbon.
  I see The Man has dumped out Monfils in straights. Saw a bit of the end of the second set tiebreak. What a disappointment  Monfils is. Busy whipping up the crowd and then retreating yards behind the baseline and hoping Stan would miss - which he didn't.
   Seven of the top eight seeds in the men's draw have made it to the Q-Fs. Bit of a contrast to the women.


Last edited by sirfredperry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding on)

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by slashermcguirk on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:23 pm

Murray vs Nishikori
Wawrinka vs Cilic
Nadal vs Carreno Busta
Djokovic vs Thiem

some very interesting QF match ups. I feared this tournament could be a real dud with Nadal just coasting to the title and a real chance of Djokovic and Murray going out early. However with Nishikori and Wawrinka still in the mix too it at least ensures that if Nadal gets to the final he is likely to at least be properly tested.

I still cant see past Nadal to be honest but just have to hope that Djokovic or Thiem put in a really strong performance against him. Even if Novak was to get to the semis and put up a good fight against Nadal I think that would represent a good performance from Novak.

The other side of the draw is interesting. I would expect Murray to edge Nishikori but Kei can be a bit of an unknown quantity, if he plays at a high level I could see him making life very difficult for Murray. I expect Wawrinka to see off Cilic in 4 sets.

I am going to go for:

Murray in 4
Wawrinka in 4
Nadal in 3
Djokovic in 4

The Murray one for me I am least confident about predicting, I also think if Thiem plays to a high level he could upset Djokovic but I know he finds that match up very difficult, he has said it a number of times.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:35 pm

Slasher:
Reckon your score predictions won't be far wrong. Rafa has been tested so little so far that I wonder what will happen if he gets into a scrap. Probably best to have a difficult match en route to the latter stages, just to get used to the pressure.
   Having said that, who would bet against Rafa for his 10th title? And it's also useful to have plenty in the tank for the semis and final.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Guest on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:05 pm

Repeat of the US Open 2016 quarter final where Nishikori beat Murray in five sets  16 64 46 61 75.  Murray would later beat Nishikori on his way to winning the ATP end of year tournament.

I think this time Murray will be too strong for Nishikori.

Both Wawrinka and Cilic have yet to drop a set. I wouldn't be surprised if Cilic beats Wawrinka.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by MrInvisible on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 9:38 pm

No Name Bertie: You might want to look up the head-to-head of Wawrinka v Cilic. Very one-sided in favour of the Swiss, though maybe Cilic is due a win...

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by lags72 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 10:10 pm

Only one 'new' face in that QF line-up.

With the AO already claimed by a 35 year-old, and RG about to be taken, methinks (on all current evidence), by the guy who first won here 12 years ago, a 'breakthrough' winner at Slam level still seems some way off.

Plus ça change .....

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by summerblues on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:49 am

Interesting that although none of Andy, Stan and Nishi showed great form throughout most of the clay court season, in the end they all are here in the QF.

Rafa, Thiem, Stan and Cilic yet to drop a set.

For tomorrow, good luck to Thiem and to Carreno Busta!

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 4:24 am

SB, luck is not enough for PCB or Thiem to win!

As for Murray, Stan, Kei and Cilic, the competition in their half of the draw leaves much to be desired. A Zverev got knocked out in the first round, Tsonga too lost early; Monfils and Anderson hardly played on clay this season due to them being injured and were just back from injuries. Delpo too, Kei also. Goodness me, even an old man like Verdasco, who has done nothing much this clay season, could come so far to reach R4 before losing to the injury prone Kei. Such, is the competition that the four quarter finalists in that half of the draw have to face; it's no wonder the injury prone Kei could reach the QF; and the not in top form yet Murray and Stan come through their respective draw too. Cilic has the luck to face Anderson who retired after only one and a half sets of tennis in the R4 match.

In contrast, the Djoko half of the draw is loaded with form players and clay court specialists - Rafa, Thiem, Goffin the form players; PCB, Schwarzman, ARV, RBA, the clay court specialists. Goffin was unfortunate to injure his ankle and had to retire; the other form/clay court players made it to at least R3 and had to beat each other for the QF spots. There're Pouille and Paire too who are talented but erratic.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 8:12 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:SB, luck is not enough for PCB or Thiem to win!

As for Murray, Stan, Kei and Cilic, the competition in their half of the draw leaves much to be desired. A Zverev got knocked out in the first round, Tsonga too lost early; Monfils and Anderson hardly played on clay this season due to them being injured and were just back from injuries.  Delpo too, Kei also.  Goodness me, even an old man like Verdasco, who has done nothing much this clay season, could come so far to reach R4 before losing to the injury prone Kei. Such, is the competition that the four quarter finalists in that half of the draw have to face; it's no wonder the injury prone Kei could reach the QF;  and the not in top form yet Murray and Stan come through their respective draw too.  Cilic has the luck to face Anderson who retired after only one and a half sets of tennis in the R4 match.

In contrast, the Djoko half of the draw is loaded with form players and clay court specialists - Rafa, Thiem, Goffin the form players; PCB, Schwarzman, ARV, RBA, the clay court specialists.  Goffin was unfortunate to injure his ankle and had to retire; the other form/clay court players made it to at least R3 and had to beat each other for the QF spots. There're Pouille and Paire too who are talented but erratic.  

This post made me smile. This is probably the only time in his life that Schwarzman is going to be touted as a more dangerous opponent than Del Porto, Monfils, Verdasco or Fognini. Kudos for saying that with a straight face!

In fact, Murray, Wawrinka and Kei have all had much harder draws to date than either Rafa or Novak. Stan particularly has looked very good in beating Dolgo, Fognini and Monfils without dropping a set. Cilic has had a very easy draw so far but even that is probably tougher than Thiem's opposition - which reads more like a challenger tournament.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 9:58 am

BS, you made me smile reading your post and I'm being polite here.

This is clay we are talking about, not HCs! Just look at what Delpo, Dolgo, Monfils, Verdasco and Foggy have done this clay season! I'm afraid you've not been keeping track of the forms of these players! What have Delpo done this clay season? Or Monfils for that matter? Beating them on clay this season made their conquerors looked good, better than what they actually are imo.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by lags72 on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 11:41 am

Rafa on auto-pilot & customary script in interview ahead of his match v (the fearsome) Carreno Busta :

"A very tough opponent, for sure ......I know I will have to be at my very best ....that's the only way ......"

Yep, we're all on tenterhooks as to which way this one could go......

You gotta love Rafa Very Happy

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Guest82 on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 11:50 am

lags72 wrote:Rafa on auto-pilot & customary script in interview ahead of his match v (the fearsome) Carreno Busta :

"A very tough opponent, for sure ......I know I will have to be at my very best ....that's the only way ......"

Yep, we're all on tenterhooks as to which way this one could go......

You gotta love Rafa Very Happy

He can hardly say "what a lucky draw to get PCB in the quarter finals of a slam....fully expect him to bend over in a similar manner to RBA"

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:BS, you made me smile reading your post and I'm being polite here.

This is clay we are talking about, not HCs!  Just look at what Delpo, Dolgo, Monfils, Verdasco and Foggy have done this clay season!  I'm afraid you've not been keeping track of the forms of these players!  What have Delpo done this clay season? Or Monfils for that matter?   Beating them on clay this season made their conquerors looked good, better than what they actually are imo.

Between them DP, Fognini and Verdasco have wins on clay this year of note over Murray, Nishikori, Zverev and Dimitrov. Schwartzman and RBA have no top 10 wins and ARV has wins over Murray and Cilic. That ignores the vast discrepancy in prior achievements on clay and elsewhere.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by prostaff85 on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

summerblues wrote:Interesting that although none of Andy, Stan and Nishi showed great form throughout most of the clay court season, in the end they all are here in the QF.

This also shows that Grand Slams are a different thing that the regular ATP tournaments. With a 128 draw and 32 seeds, usually the first 2 or even 3 rounds aren't too tough, and with best-of-five and no tiebreak in the final set there is margin for error. From R16 onwards these guys usually have gathered momentum.

And it could well be that Djokovic and Murray - now that they both have turned 30 - will focus their energy on the Grand Slams like Federer has been doing for years already.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 1:10 pm

BS, Murray was poor during this clay season, Kei was injury prone, so a win over them wasn't anything special! I mean what have Murray and Kei done this clay season, when they were beaten early, or when Kei got injured and withdrew from the QF before facing Djoko? It's the form of the players concerned that mattered. Delpo certainly wasn't in great form, when he looked rusty and running out of steam. Foggy, like I said, could be brilliant for one set and then be indifferent in the next two, so he's only half competitive. Verdasco surprised us, but after he had beaten A Zverev, he needed five sets to finish off Herbert, I mean Herbert the S&V style player on clay?


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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 1:29 pm

Form players are all very well but when you look at how miserable a record they have in slams it changes things considerably. Del Potro, Wawrinka, Murray, Cilic all slam winners and then Nishikori - they know how to get results at slams and raise their game for slams. Can the same be said of those (Nadal and Djokovic aside) in the other half of the draw? I'd certainly say not.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 1:53 pm

Fair play to Verdasco for backing up that first round win. I half expected him to crash out in R2 to a nobody (which, to be fair, he almost managed to do).

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:09 pm

CC, but they did, like reaching R3 or R4 and putting up tough fights against Djoko for example! It's not like they got beaten easily! PCB did put up tough fight vs Raonic, even though Raonic wasn't the form player this FO, just like a Delpo or a Monfils.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:15 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:CC, but they did, like reaching R3 or R4 and putting up tough fights against Djoko for example!  It's not like they got beaten easily!  PCB did put up tough fight vs Raonic, even though Raonic wasn't the form player this FO, just like a Delpo or a Monfils.

And that is all they'll ever be at slam level which is my point whereas those you talk down have walked the walk many times in slams.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:38 pm

So what that those I talked down had walked the walk, when they also lost in R3 or R4? And that's also why I said it's the form that mattered. I mean you think putting say Delpo or Monfils vs Djoko, they would beat Djoko? It's also unlikely that they would do better than say Schwartzman vs Djoko. I even feel that Schwartzman could push Murray to four or five sets the way Klizan could and did better than Delpo!


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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:42 pm

Guest, what do you mean by RBA bent over for Rafa? Did you watch the match? Agut wasn't bending over to Rafa, he played the best he could and lost!

So which player is the toughest QF opponent for Rafa? And I think Murray having Kei and Stan having Cilic aren't having any tough QF opponent either. Only Djoko gets the toughest QF opponent i.e. Thiem.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 2:55 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:So what that those I talked down had walked the walk, when they also lost in R3 or R4? And that's also why I said it's the form that mattered.  I mean you think putting say Delpo or Monfils vs Djoko, they would beat Djoko?  It's also unlikely that they would do better than say Schwartzman vs Djoko.  I even feel that Schwartzman could push Murray to four or five sets the way Klizan could and did better than Delpo!


Point being they have proven their mental toughness in their careers - none more so than Del Potro considering the injuries he has put up with and recovered from and is still able to battle his way back into the top 32. That mental toughness is what turns them into tougher opponents than journeymen (even in form) who melt away at the business end of sets and matches. If you want to continue insisting Bautista Agut/Schwartzman/Ramos Vanolas/Carreno Bustu are tougher opponents than Del Potro/Monfils/Nishikori/Wawrinka then I am flabberghasted.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 3:13 pm

CC, context please. No matter how mentally tough Delpo is, he couldnt conquer his own poor form, his rustiness and his poor fitness, esp against a player as fit as Murray.

Nobody is saying those form players I mentioned would do better than the likes of Delpo always, but in this particular FO, they are in better form, better prepared and playing better tennis.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 3:18 pm

And, when did I say the likes of AVR etc are tougher opponent than Stan? I said the opponents that Murray and Stan have to face are the out of form players, making it not competitive for both of them.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 3:34 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:CC, context please.  No matter how mentally tough Delpo is, he couldnt conquer his own poor form, his rustiness and his poor fitness, esp against a player as fit as Murray.  

Nobody is saying those form players I mentioned would do better than the likes of Delpo always, but in this particular FO, they are in better form, better prepared and playing better tennis.

The fact that a so off-form Del Potro could make it as far as those form players you are lauding says it all and lets remember he lost to last year's runner-up. Mental toughness is a quality needed to win in tight situations ...Juan has it whilst the likes of Bautista-Agut, Ramos Vanolas, Swhwartzman don't. If Del Potro had of gotten into a match winning position he'd more likely take it whereas journeymen do not.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 4:14 pm

As I said, context. You said 'IF' but no 'IF' here, as Delpo didn't have it here despite what you said! And, hence my original post!

As I said, if Murray is having Djoko's draw, I could easily see Schwartzman giving Murray problems like Klizan did, and played better than Delpo vs Murray, not that he would beat Murray, but giving him tougher competition than Murray's present opponents did.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 4:22 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:As I said, context.  You said 'IF' but no 'IF' here, as Delpo didn't have it here despite what you said!  And, hence my original post!

As I said, if Murray is having Djoko's draw, I could easily see Schwartzman giving Murray problems like Klizan did, and played better than Delpo vs Murray, not that he would beat Murray, but giving him tougher competition than Murray's present opponents did.

We will agree to disagree.
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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 4:42 pm

So DP reaching a QF in his only Masters event, beating Kei and Dimitrov (both of whom have strong clay court pedigree), is evidence that he is out of form. Schwartzman, who made one Masters QF in several attempts (beating no one of note) is in form. Struggling to follow that logic. The Murray who beat DP would have annihilated Schwartzman, as Novak did once he woke up.

Verdasco played great in this tournament, so I'm not sure why his results beforehand are relevant. He smashed up both Zverev and Cuevas - who himself is actually a far better clay courter than Schwartzman or RBA.

There really is no basis for trying to argue that Nadal and Novak have had it tougher. They simply haven't.

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Re: RG - Day 9

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 5:20 pm

And BS, where's Dimitrov? He's been losing in R1 at two of the clay Masters this year, so what credentials he has in the past bore no relevance. And Delpo even struggled to beat him! Delpo reached the QF at Rome but ran out of steam, and lost to Djoko over two days. The way Delpo was playing, it's no wonder he lost in straight sets to Murray; after losing the first tight set, he simply ran out of steam and lost meekly.

Schwartzman reached the QF at Monte Carlo, losing to none other than Nadal! Did you see the Djoko vs Schwartzman match? He's going toe to toe with Djoko and it's because of Djoko's fitness that won Djoko the match in five sets, outlasting Schwartzman. So you think Djoko was sleeping through three sets of the match?? Schwartzman was precisely the kind of players that could give Murray plenty of problems, not unlike Klizan.

Verdasco didn't smash up Herbert though, being pushed to five sets by the non clay court pedigree, how about that?


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Re: RG - Day 9

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