UK General Election 2017 Thread

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:03 am

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:52 am

Well that went well...

Conservatives ran a one-dimensional campaign (and didn't do it that well) and paid the price. Congrats to Corbyn and Labour - they did what they set out to achieve and denied May her Brexit mandate.

Quite frankly, if Brexit hadn't been an issue, I'd have been tempted to vote Labour (or at least Lib Dem).

I still think Theresa is a capable leader...but boy she is a poor campaigner. Comes across very aloof and authoritarian (Thatcher Mk 2), which obviously worked in Maggie's time, but not now. Not enough time and effort put in to addressing the big national issues, which Labour and Corbyn put front and centre of their campaign. Throw in the fact Jezza come across as much more approachable and a genuine everyman and its not surprising they made such big gains.

Brexit seems a distant dream now.

Now we've got a hung Parliament and the prospect of yet another election in a few months' time. Even if the Conservatives ally themselves with the DUP, they're barely going to scrape an overall majority and its going to be difficult, if not impossible, to push through anything not hugely popular with the opposition.

The Europeans must be laughing themselves silly right now...
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Post by Galted on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:53 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Morning. Did I miss anything?

You did, yesterday was Bonnie Tyler's birthday.

I was going to visit her to say Happy Birthday but I got lost in France.

I was too and made it as far as Albufeira but had to give up due to my sh*tty SatNav. It keeps telling me to turn around, and every now and then it falls apart.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:55 am

compelling and rich wrote:labour gaining from cons, ukip and snp look dead

i dont think i can handle another referendum on brexit


I don't think thats going to happen. We're probably going to have another general election within the next 6 months though. Kind of "double or quits" situation where the Conservatives get a big enough majority to push Brexit through, or Labour get an overall majority...in which case Brexit dies...
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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:56 am

Ent wrote:Where does this leave the country?

Pretty much screwed.

Tories can form a very slim coalition but it won't last long. DUP want May gone and they can't afford any dissenting MPs over 2 parties with some differences.

Labour don't have enough seats on their "side" to get a queens speech voted through for a minority government despite Corbyn and McDonnell crowning themselves as the party of the people.

Basically back to the polls
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:56 am

Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Morning. Did I miss anything?

You did, yesterday was Bonnie Tyler's birthday.

I was going to visit her to say Happy Birthday but I got lost in France.

I was too and made it as far as Albufeira but had to give up due to my sh*tty SatNav. It keeps telling me to turn around, and every now and then it falls apart.

Turn around Bright Eyes...together we can make it to the end of the line... Laugh
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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:57 am

We'll be back in the single market is my guess (and hope)
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Post by Scottrf on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:57 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:labour gaining from cons, ukip and snp look dead

i dont think i can handle another referendum on brexit


I don't think thats going to happen. We're probably going to have another general election within the next 6 months though. Kind of "double or quits" situation where the Conservatives get a big enough majority to push Brexit through, or Labour get an overall majority...in which case Brexit dies...
Or we get the same result?

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:00 am

ShahenshahG wrote:You might want to be careful hammer - Irish unionists will demand things not within the purview of the UK to provide - like free movement. Might end up with no brexit at all.

From what I've seen DUP are even more pro "hard Brexit" than the Conservatives. Still, they have a history of milking the Tories for all they're worth, so its not exactly a great situation to be in.
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:09 am

High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

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Post by Samo on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:10 am

Ent wrote:High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

Try being Scottish.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:13 am

Aye I know that but I meant with regards to an open border and practically no border within Ireland, it's one more thing we might have to concede on to the EU. Worst case scenario is us having to pay the EU to keep Northern Ireland in the single market and pay for the border enforcement between Ireland and the mainland.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:14 am

Theresa off to see the queen at 12.30
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:15 am

Being an Irish unionist doesn't mean I approve of the DUP and their stance, I'd vote for the UUP if I lived over there.

We are well and truly screwed now, the worst possible outcome as far as Brexit goes, May has got to go now but who to replace her with. I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg but he lacks any real profile and is far too posh to be taken seriously, if as expected there's another election near the end of the year the Tories need to be getting orators like him in the public eye. I've tried defending May throughout the campaign but Corbyn has chewed her up and spit her out just by getting his message out there loud and clear, I disagree with him but he's instilled passion in people.

Amber Rudd is no longer a viable option after clinging on to her seat yesterday, Gove, Hammond, Davis and the others don't fill me confidence whilst Johnson threw his chance away. Cameron or Blair would have romped to victory instead we were left with two thoroughly unappealing options; Austerity or mass overspending, Ruth Davison could be an outside bet.

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:18 am

ShahenshahG wrote:Aye I know that but I meant with regards to an open border and practically no border within Ireland, it's one more thing we might have to concede on to the EU. Worst case scenario is us having to pay the EU to keep Northern Ireland in the single market and pay for the border enforcement between Ireland and the mainland.

Is that even viable? Britain would essentially remain in the single market then.

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:21 am

Corbyn getting a lot of credit for losing - but not as badly as initially predicted.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:22 am

Ent wrote:High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

I was amazed at the turnout. 60% or more in many constituencies.

Think the polarising effect of Brexit, coupled with Labour's appeal to the youth / student voters had quite an effect. I can remember elections where 30 - 40% turnouts were the norm.

Looks like we're going to have to stock up on caffeine pills and energy drinks though, as we're going to have to go through it all over again in a few months.
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:23 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Morning. Did I miss anything?

You did, yesterday was Bonnie Tyler's birthday.

I was going to visit her to say Happy Birthday but I got lost in France.

I was too and made it as far as Albufeira but had to give up due to my sh*tty SatNav. It keeps telling me to turn around, and every now and then it falls apart.

Turn around Bright Eyes...together we can make it to the end of the line... Laugh

I think we need an Admin to step in to stop further Bonnie Tyler jokes. I'm holding out for Hero.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:25 am

Yes your puns are starting to eclipse the discussion on this thread
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:27 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

I was amazed at the turnout. 60% or more in many constituencies.

Think the polarising effect of Brexit, coupled with Labour's appeal to the youth / student voters had quite an effect. I can remember elections where 30 - 40% turnouts were the norm.

Looks like we're going to have to stock up on caffeine pills and energy drinks though, as we're going to have to go through it all over again in a few months.

Depends on the fixed term parliament act and wether the conservatives will choose to trigger the opt out.


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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:33 am

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-theresa-may-lost-the-election-but-no-one-else-won-a3561051.html

Osbourne sums up the mess quite well.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:36 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Being an Irish unionist doesn't mean I approve of the DUP and their stance, I'd vote for the UUP if I lived over there.

We are well and truly screwed now, the worst possible outcome as far as Brexit goes, May has got to go now but who to replace her with. I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg but he lacks any real profile and is far too posh to be taken seriously, if as expected there's another election near the end of the year the Tories need to be getting orators like him in the public eye. I've tried defending May throughout the campaign but Corbyn has chewed her up and spit her out just by getting his message out there loud and clear, I disagree with him but he's instilled passion in people.

Amber Rudd is no longer a viable option after clinging on to her seat yesterday, Gove, Hammond, Davis and the others don't fill me confidence whilst Johnson threw his chance away. Cameron or Blair would have romped to victory instead we were left with two thoroughly unappealing options; Austerity or mass overspending, Ruth Davison could be an outside bet.

Hard to argue with any of that.

Don't see how May can stay on (for very long) after this result. Conservatives need to elect a new leader ASAP. Sad really, as I think she's done a good job to this point, but she just doesn't know how to reach out and connect with voters.

So you don't fancy someone like Liam Fox, Chris Grayling or Sajid Javid? For what its worth, I think Boris could still make a comeback (he could be our Donald Trump).
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Post by Scottrf on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

GSC wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-theresa-may-lost-the-election-but-no-one-else-won-a3561051.html

Osbourne sums up the mess quite well.

Enjoyed the comment below ""Two years ago, the UK stood out as a beacon of political stability and economic success" - even if i say so myself!"

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

GSC wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-theresa-may-lost-the-election-but-no-one-else-won-a3561051.html

Osbourne sums up the mess quite well.

Yes it is very nicely put, little dig at the electorate too.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:42 am

Nuttall stands down from his 3 month placement as UKIP leader
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:42 am

Ent wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

I was amazed at the turnout. 60% or more in many constituencies.

Think the polarising effect of Brexit, coupled with Labour's appeal to the youth / student voters had quite an effect. I can remember elections where 30 - 40% turnouts were the norm.

Looks like we're going to have to stock up on caffeine pills and energy drinks though, as we're going to have to go through it all over again in a few months.

Depends on the fixed term parliament act and wether the conservatives will choose to trigger the opt out.


If they find it as hard to function effectively as a government, as I fear they will, they may have no choice. If Labour and the other parties conspire against them (especially on Brexit) then their hand will be forced.

Some of the European negotiating team, including Michel Barnier have already said they would prefer to deal with a strong UK government.
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:44 am

GSC wrote:Nuttall stands down from his 3 month placement as UKIP leader

Managed to get all his jibes in during his resignation speech.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

Scottrf wrote:
GSC wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-theresa-may-lost-the-election-but-no-one-else-won-a3561051.html

Osbourne sums up the mess quite well.

Enjoyed the comment below ""Two years ago, the UK stood out as a beacon of political stability and economic success" - even if i say so myself!"


While its technically accurate, don't forget there will be a large dose of saltiness in that piece. Never liked Osborne as a person, even if he did a good job as Chancellor. He strikes me as the kind of guy to carry a grudge.
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:High turnout, highest since 97.

Big youth turnout too.

Surprised at that, thought there would be political fatigue given the number of elections recently.

I was amazed at the turnout. 60% or more in many constituencies.

Think the polarising effect of Brexit, coupled with Labour's appeal to the youth / student voters had quite an effect. I can remember elections where 30 - 40% turnouts were the norm.

Looks like we're going to have to stock up on caffeine pills and energy drinks though, as we're going to have to go through it all over again in a few months.


Depends on the fixed term parliament act and wether the conservatives will choose to trigger the opt out.


If they find it as hard to function effectively as a government, as I fear they will, they may have no choice. If Labour and the other parties conspire against them (especially on Brexit) then their hand will be forced.

Some of the European negotiating team, including Michel Barnier have already said they would prefer to deal with a strong UK government.

Correct - but what will change in a few months? I doubt we will get to 5 years but can't see May going back to the electorate in the Autumn.

Any other party leaders under threat after these results?

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

May: refusing to resign
Corbyn: presenting second place as a kind of victory
Our politicians owe such a debt to Arsene Wenger

Laugh
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

Ent wrote:
GSC wrote:Nuttall stands down from his 3 month placement as UKIP leader

Managed to get all his jibes in during his resignation speech.


Only after Labour got their jibes in after the result was announced and even some Conservatives. Wink

Theresa May is going to find its suddenly very lonely at the top. When you call an election without any pressing need to do so (though her arguments were at least plausible) then end up with a hung Parliament, everyone and their dog is going to be taking shots at you. Such is the nature of politics...

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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

GSC wrote:May: refusing to resign
Corbyn: presenting second place as a kind of victory
Our politicians owe such a debt to Arsene Wenger

Laugh

Quick! Somebody hire a couple of planes with "MAY OUT" and "MAY STAY" banners. Wink
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:55 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:
GSC wrote:Nuttall stands down from his 3 month placement as UKIP leader

Managed to get all his jibes in during his resignation speech.


Only after Labour got their jibes in after the result was announced and even some Conservatives. Wink

Theresa May is going to find its suddenly very lonely at the top. When you call an election without any pressing need to do so (though her arguments were at least plausible) then end up with a hung Parliament, everyone and their dog is going to be taking shots at you. Such is the nature of politics...


She needs to accept the thankless task she has been given and get on with it. Negotiate the EU deal, get it done, resign as PM and let the electorate have their say in another GE.

Make a good fist of leaving the EU in difficult circumstances and history remember her well.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:56 am

Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

He's like George Osborne's little brother. Undoubtedly highly intelligent, but not very likeable. He'd be right at home in the 1920's. chin Certainly not the kind of person you could ever see being popular with voters, or the "face" of the party.

Or a Tory Peter Mandelson, if you like...
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 10:58 am

They should go for Ruth, might keep what has now become an important set of Scottish Tory voters happy

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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

He's like George Osborne's little brother. Undoubtedly highly intelligent, but not very likeable. He'd be right at home in the 1920's. chin Certainly not the kind of person you could ever see being popular with voters, or the "face" of the party.

Or a Tory Peter Mandelson, if you like...

I'm genuinely not convinced he's that intelligent, think he appears more intelligent than he is because he's well-spoken.

He's a cartoon character who can't be taken seriously.

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Post by temporary21 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

Please be Rees mogg.  They'll be throughly f@sted if that happens

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Ent wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Ent wrote:
GSC wrote:Nuttall stands down from his 3 month placement as UKIP leader

Managed to get all his jibes in during his resignation speech.


Only after Labour got their jibes in after the result was announced and even some Conservatives. Wink

Theresa May is going to find its suddenly very lonely at the top. When you call an election without any pressing need to do so (though her arguments were at least plausible) then end up with a hung Parliament, everyone and their dog is going to be taking shots at you. Such is the nature of politics...


She needs to accept the thankless task she has been given and get on with it. Negotiate the EU deal, get it done, resign as PM and let the electorate have their say in another GE.

Make a good fist of leaving the EU in difficult circumstances and history remember her well.


Trouble is she needed a strong government to do that. It would have been difficult before, with a slim majority, but now I think it will be impossible, simply due to the fact Labour and the other parties will thwart anything they don't like.

A strong Brexit mandate would also have given the Conservatives a mandate to run the country, so she would have no need to resign.

As it is I think May will now be forced to accept the Labour version of Brexit, whereby the UK essentially remains a member, remaining in the single market and customs union and retaining freedom of movement...

...unless, they go to the polls again in a few months in a "Brexit or bust" move.


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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Owen Smith has said that he was wrong about Jeremy Corbyn.

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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

Nigel Farage to become UKIP Leader AGAIN do people think? It's inevitable he will get involved again, especially if Brexit is put at risk.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:07 am

fantastic result for labour and a fantastic result for corbyn. Just 4 weeks ago the tories were on target to get a 100 seat majority and now they have lost their majority,

Theresa May never had to call this election, she still had 3 years to run. She thought she would walk it based on having a 20 point lead in the polls and it backfired.

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Post by Hero on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

He's already said he's ready to get back involved. Odious little sh*tweasel.

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

Musclular-mouse wrote:fantastic result for labour and a fantastic result for corbyn. Just 4 weeks ago the tories were on target to get a 100 seat majority and now they have lost their majority,

Theresa May never had to call this election, she still had 3 years to run. She thought she would walk it based on having a 20 point lead in the polls and it backfired.

It's not as terrible a result as it could have been for Labour but lets not lie and say it was fantastic, they lost by 55 seats or so.

A strong opposition would have won, imagine if Corbyn had managed his party decently and performed well on PMQs regularly rather than having a mammoth gap to make up. Mind you had he done that May wouldn't have dared call an election.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

Crimey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

He's like George Osborne's little brother. Undoubtedly highly intelligent, but not very likeable. He'd be right at home in the 1920's. chin Certainly not the kind of person you could ever see being popular with voters, or the "face" of the party.

Or a Tory Peter Mandelson, if you like...

I'm genuinely not convinced he's that intelligent, think he appears more intelligent than he is because he's well-spoken.

He's a cartoon character who can't be taken seriously.


So is Boris Johnson, but that doesn't stop him being likeable...not to mention highly intelligent (even if he doesn't always come across that way) and as former mayor of London, a vote winner.
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Post by temporary21 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:12 am

So why not Boris then?

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:14 am

Crimey wrote:Nigel Farage to become UKIP Leader AGAIN do people think? It's inevitable he will get involved again, especially if Brexit is put at risk.

Well Nigel is good for a quote and he does seem to say what he thinks, whether its popular or not.

Sadly, I don't think it matters who UKIP elect, as I can't see them ever regaining their former popularity...which they would need to be a credible pro-Brexit force.
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:16 am

Ent wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:fantastic result for labour and a fantastic result for corbyn. Just 4 weeks ago the tories were on target to get a 100 seat majority and now they have lost their majority,

Theresa May never had to call this election, she still had 3 years to run. She thought she would walk it based on having a 20 point lead in the polls and it backfired.

It's not as terrible a result as it could have been for Labour but lets not lie and say it was fantastic, they lost by 55 seats or so.

A strong opposition would have won, imagine if Corbyn had managed his party decently and performed well on PMQs regularly rather than having a mammoth gap to make up. Mind you had he done that May wouldn't have dared call an election.

no, this is a fantastic result. We never stood a chance in this election and we have managed to get the tories out of being solely in power. Yes we never won the most seats but that doesn't mean it wasn't a fantastic result. We were scheduled to get 200 seats and we ended up getting 261/2 and making the tories remove their majority.

Now that Corbyn has gained support and people have seen him in debates he will go from strength to strength for the next election. If May stays as PM she will get even more unpopular.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:26 am

Yay, we lost! Fantastic result!

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

Musclular-mouse wrote:
Ent wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:fantastic result for labour and a fantastic result for corbyn. Just 4 weeks ago the tories were on target to get a 100 seat majority and now they have lost their majority,

Theresa May never had to call this election, she still had 3 years to run. She thought she would walk it based on having a 20 point lead in the polls and it backfired.

It's not as terrible a result as it could have been for Labour but lets not lie and say it was fantastic, they lost by 55 seats or so.

A strong opposition would have won, imagine if Corbyn had managed his party decently and performed well on PMQs regularly rather than having a mammoth gap to make up. Mind you had he done that May wouldn't have dared call an election.

no, this is a fantastic result. We never stood a chance in this election and we have managed to get the tories out of being solely in power. Yes we never won the most seats but that doesn't mean it wasn't a fantastic result. We were scheduled to get 200 seats and we ended up getting 261/2 and making the tories remove their majority.

Now that Corbyn has gained support and people have seen him in debates he will go from strength to strength for the next election. If May stays as PM she will get even more unpopular.

So losing by 55 seats is fantastic because the early polls predicted a bigger loss? Bizarre logic.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:28 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Yay, we lost! Fantastic result!

Haha!

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