UK General Election 2017 Thread

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:03 am

First topic message reminder :

CONTINUE

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:37 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's not true in the slightest is it, do explain how community policing would stop a man hiring a van and ploughing into pedestrians.

A bit simplistic, don't you think. Didn't think I'd have to go back to basics but it seems you're unaware of what community policing actually is.

They'd work within communities, particularly the Muslim community in this instance, get to know residents of their patch, community leaders, Imams etc. Not every suspicion gets reported directly to police. Community officers obtain local knowledge that no other intelligence agency can.

No offense, HH, but I'll take the opinion of seasoned police officers and chiefs over yours.


No offence but i'll take my own opinion over yours.

And the opinion of former police chiefs and officers? You think that cutting over 19,000 police officers doesn't make a difference as to the safety of the British people? Just checking.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:44 pm

The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:45 pm

Disgrace that so many police have been cut under the Tories at a time when terrorists lurk in the communities. More law enforcers are needed not less and only a die-hard Tory supporter would try to argue otherwise.
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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:48 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

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Post by GSC on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:53 pm

I'd be more interested in the funding going to the intelligence services specifically than overall policing numbers when it comes to anti terrorism, anyone got those numbers?
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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:54 pm

GSC wrote:I'd be more interested in the funding going to the intelligence services specifically than overall policing numbers when it comes to anti terrorism, anyone got those numbers?

Not public record.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:58 pm

GSC wrote:I'd be more interested in the funding going to the intelligence services specifically than overall policing numbers when it comes to anti terrorism, anyone got those numbers?

Quite, but as it's been pointed out, we don't have access to those numbers. Can't imagine we've seen an increased, though we can't know for sure.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:06 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

Insightful as ever.

7/7 was not the fault of Labour just like these attacks are not the fault of the Conservatives. The blame rests solely with the extremists who hate us and they will find a way to follow through with their sadistic desires.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:07 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Disgrace that so many police have been cut under the Tories at a time when terrorists lurk in the communities. More law enforcers are needed not less and only a die-hard Tory supporter would try to argue otherwise.


Empty as ever I see Craig and you petty anti Tory jibes are getting boring, it's the only input you seem to have.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

Insightful as ever.

7/7 was not the fault of Labour just like these attacks are not the fault of the Conservatives. The blame rests solely with the extremists who hate us and they will find a way to follow through with their sadistic desires.

You honestly believe that cutting 19,000 police officers hasn't made Britain more dangerous in terms of terrorist attacks? Seriously? Are you that blinkered?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:11 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

Insightful as ever.

7/7 was not the fault of Labour just like these attacks are not the fault of the Conservatives. The blame rests solely with the extremists who hate us and they will find a way to follow through with their sadistic desires.

You honestly believe that cutting 19,000 police officers hasn't made Britain more dangerous in terms of terrorist attacks? Seriously? Are you that blinkered?


I don't think it's made a difference, I know a difference of opinion is hard for you to accept and you'll come back with one of your pathetic WUM jibes.

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Post by Hero on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:13 pm

Should we cut them all then and just have a real life version of the Purge?

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:17 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

Insightful as ever.

7/7 was not the fault of Labour just like these attacks are not the fault of the Conservatives. The blame rests solely with the extremists who hate us and they will find a way to follow through with their sadistic desires.

No no no. That's not the point. If a government engages in policies that tend to increase the growth of terrorist organisations, then they have some responsibility if and when those terrorists strike against us. Similarly, if a government adopts policies that weaken our defences against terrorism, then they are to some degree culpable for the damage caused. More so if they do so in the face of a known terror threat.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:19 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The USA, Germany, France and Belgium have all had multiple terrorist attacks in recent years, I do not believe that increasing or decreasing police numbers prevents them.

Wow.

Insightful as ever.

7/7 was not the fault of Labour just like these attacks are not the fault of the Conservatives. The blame rests solely with the extremists who hate us and they will find a way to follow through with their sadistic desires.

No no no. That's not the point. If a government engages in policies that tend to increase the growth of terrorist organisations, then they have some responsibility if and when those terrorists strike against us. Similarly, if a government adopts policies that weaken our defences against terrorism, then they are to some degree culpable for the damage caused. More so if they do so in the face of a known terror threat.

Sorry but I can't agree with that one little bit.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:19 pm

Insightful as ever.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:22 pm

The police? Not happy with the Conservatives. Doctors and nurses - not happy with the conservatives. Teachers? Three strikes.

That should be a big deal. The muddied waters of a Brexit election and national security issues has detracted from it. A cynic would see a link.

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Post by Hero on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:25 pm

I don't recall a time when all three major public sectors have been so low on morale. I'm married to a teacher, my brother in law is a cop and I work with doctors all day, I get three loads of earache over it.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:27 pm

Hero, they're all wrong. And anyway, all of these services are socialism, which is also wrong.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:31 pm

Those all really stem from the issue of whether you support big or small government.

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Post by GSC on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:43 pm

And to what extent are they underfunded now vs overfunded before relative to the pot of money we have. Which seems to be an underlying theme of May vs Corbyn.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:46 pm

The Fire Service have particularly fond memories of Labour.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:48 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The Fire Service have particularly fond memories of Labour.

Deflecting the point that has been put to you?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:50 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So a guy leaves a note as a joke and that's it.

Black Wednesday anyone ??
Headscratch

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Global crash - f*** Labour. Why didn't they tell the Americans too. They must have known it was happening. Snide red b*stards
picard You're better than that. I didn't say it was Labour did I? What I implied was they oversaw the economy for ~12 years, p!ssed away money (like I have no doubt any other party would have done) and didn't take any notice of what I'm sure were enough warnings about property bubbles etc. What I was implying is that the sort of thing Pr4wn's banging on about is not entirely down to the Tories. Still, easier to reduce it to Labour = good; Tories = evil I guess.

I'm not sure what your point is, here. The global economy crashed, nobody saw it coming (but apparently Labour should have seen it coming?), some former minster wrote a note as a joke, then the Tories demolished the disable benefits system but it's not their fault?

Looks like, in accusing me of trying to use a bogeyman, you're trying to find anyone but the Tories to blame. Even going as far as ridiculous dredging up Labour from 2008.
Sorry, did you say something?
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:53 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The Fire Service have particularly fond memories of Labour.

Deflecting the point that has been put to you?

Deflecting what point exactly that everything is the fault of the Conservatives, I personally think people most notably nurses should just get on with their jobs.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:55 pm

You don't think that nurses deserve some sort of pay-rise in six years?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:56 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The police? Not happy with the Conservatives. Doctors and nurses - not happy with the conservatives. Teachers? Three strikes.

That should be a big deal. The muddied waters of a Brexit election and national security issues has detracted from it. A cynic would see a link.
Ha. Groups 2 and 3 have never been happy with the Tories and Group 1 often aren't.
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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So a guy leaves a note as a joke and that's it.

Black Wednesday anyone ??
Headscratch

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Global crash - f*** Labour. Why didn't they tell the Americans too. They must have known it was happening. Snide red b*stards
picard You're better than that. I didn't say it was Labour did I? What I implied was they oversaw the economy for ~12 years, p!ssed away money (like I have no doubt any other party would have done) and didn't take any notice of what I'm sure were enough warnings about property bubbles etc. What I was implying is that the sort of thing Pr4wn's banging on about is not entirely down to the Tories. Still, easier to reduce it to Labour = good; Tories = evil I guess.

I'm not sure what your point is, here. The global economy crashed, nobody saw it coming (but apparently Labour should have seen it coming?), some former minster wrote a note as a joke, then the Tories demolished the disable benefits system but it's not their fault?

Looks like, in accusing me of trying to use a bogeyman, you're trying to find anyone but the Tories to blame. Even going as far as ridiculous dredging up Labour from 2008.
Sorry, did you say something?

Thought so OK clap

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:57 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The police? Not happy with the Conservatives. Doctors and nurses - not happy with the conservatives. Teachers? Three strikes.

That should be a big deal. The muddied waters of a Brexit election and national security issues has detracted from it. A cynic would see a link.
Ha. Groups 2 and 3 have never been happy with the Tories and Group 1 often aren't.

I wonder why that is.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 4:57 pm

Pr4wn wrote:You don't think that nurses deserve some sort of pay-rise in six years?

Are you serious? He hates poor people, they are just lazy.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:28 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The police? Not happy with the Conservatives. Doctors and nurses - not happy with the conservatives. Teachers? Three strikes.

That should be a big deal. The muddied waters of a Brexit election and national security issues has detracted from it. A cynic would see a link.
Ha. Groups 2 and 3 have never been happy with the Tories and Group 1 often aren't.

Particularly unhappy though. It is notable what is happening in schools, really is. And I'm not sure there's ever been such an angry outburst from the NHS during an election campaign.

Moreover, isn't it worth noting? I see people laugh at the idealism of leftie luvvies, but nothing fuels the ire of people more than "your concerns? They aren't concerns, dear"

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:29 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The Fire Service have particularly fond memories of Labour.

Deflecting the point that has been put to you?

Deflecting what point exactly that everything is the fault of the Conservatives, I personally think people most notably nurses should just get on with their jobs.

If you care about your family, and that is what you do use to justify your views a lot, then the police, nurses and teachers being given the support to do their jobs is crucially important.

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Post by Samo on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 5:47 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:The Fire Service have particularly fond memories of Labour.

Deflecting the point that has been put to you?

Deflecting what point exactly that everything is the fault of the Conservatives, I personally think people most notably nurses should just get on with their jobs.

If you care about your family, and that is what you do use to justify your views a lot, then the police, nurses and teachers being given the support to do their jobs is crucially important.

It'll be fine once we sell the NHS to Virgin. Then May can focus selling the police force to G4S so her husband can get a nice big pay day. And they dont care about the schools because the uneducated turkeys will keep voting for christmas as long as you say 'Strong and Stable' and 'Brexit means Brexit'.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:26 pm

Alternatively the uneducated seem to vote for Labour based on a Robin Hood manifesto.

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Post by Samo on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:28 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Alternatively the uneducated seem to vote for Labour based on a Robin Hood fully costed manifesto.

Fixed that for you OK

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:38 pm

You cling to that as if it makes it any better, clueless.

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Post by Samo on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:43 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You cling to that, as if it because that makes it any better, cluelessd in.

OK

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:46 pm

You carry on thinking that, remind me how tax works?

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Post by GSC on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:46 pm

To be honest both got ripped to shreds by the independent body.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:50 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You carry on thinking that, remind me how tax works?

It is a system where only mugs like us pay....While Corporations and mega rich people avoid paying it...

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:52 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:You carry on thinking that, remind me how tax works?

It is a system where only mugs like us pay....While Corporations and mega rich people avoid paying it...

The 59% the top 10% pay must be a fabrication then Truss, you're better than that.

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Post by Samo on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:53 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You carry on thinking that, remind me how tax works?

Tax is contributed in many ways, such as duty tax, income tax and VAT.  It is collected and distributed between three levels of government, from HMRC right down to your local council. This is then spent on vital public services from the NHS right down to maintaining public footpaths.

Hope this helps.  OK

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:01 pm

I pay £45k on my £100k job then.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:19 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I pay £45k on my £100k job then.

Minimum wage worker confirmed.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:19 pm

Something is so wrong with security when you have extremists appearing on a Channel 4 documentary months ago declaring intentions on national television and then go out and kill people without being arrested or at least interrogated.

Now (and this is aimed at all political parties) is it not time measures are put in place? If anyone is found guilty of radicalisation or openly showing any form of support for terrorist sects then they get imprisoned or deported if originally from outwith the UK.
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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:22 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Something is so wrong with security when you have extremists appearing on a Channel 4 documentary months ago declaring intentions on national television and then go out and kill people without being arrested or at least interrogated.

Now (and this is aimed at all political parties) is it not time measures are put in place? If anyone is found guilty of radicalisation or openly showing any form of support for terrorist sects then they get imprisoned or deported if originally from outwith the UK.
But if you watched the documentary they were very careful to not admit that they supported the views of ISIS etc.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:28 pm

Scottrf wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Something is so wrong with security when you have extremists appearing on a Channel 4 documentary months ago declaring intentions on national television and then go out and kill people without being arrested or at least interrogated.

Now (and this is aimed at all political parties) is it not time measures are put in place? If anyone is found guilty of radicalisation or openly showing any form of support for terrorist sects then they get imprisoned or deported if originally from outwith the UK.
But if you watched the documentary they were very careful to not admit that they supported the views of ISIS etc.
Really? They were seen with the Jihadi flag - a bit of a big clue there. Such actions should lead to them being taken into custody and questioned and investigated thoroughly. Okay some may be innocent but that risk cannot be taken when lives are ultimately at risk.
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Post by Scottrf on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:36 pm

Seen with it but not caught with it if you're referring to the incident in the park. And yes really. They know the laws.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:46 pm

Scottrf wrote:Seen with it but not caught with it if you're referring to the incident in the park. And yes really. They know the laws.
Yes seen caressing it if you watch clips doing the rounds. Surely, to high heavens such activities now have to be questioned and not allowed to go on freely untapped. Just as foreign countries about women having to cover their face when in public then we should look to enforce laws to combat radicalisation and flying of flags etc associated with terrorist groups or marching or chanting support for this scum. Bang them up and hold them until every single iota of information is gathered on them lat which point a decision is made on their future. It is time to get tough.
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Post by temporary21 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:47 pm

If you give people no money. Then they can't pay any taxes

Try working for little to no money. It gives you a sense of perspective you need to recognise how the real world works outside the ivory tower

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:56 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:You carry on thinking that, remind me how tax works?

It is a system where only mugs like us pay....While Corporations and mega rich people avoid paying it...

The 59% the top 10% pay must be a fabrication then Truss, you're better than that.

I'd be interested in a source for that statistic. Also, when you say 'tax' what are you referring to? All tax? Income tax? Income tax + VAT? I've never seen a figure for contribution to overall tax by decile (since it is assumed too hard to calculate). As such, I assume you mean income tax, though the figure I've seen (from the IFS) is 47%.

Of course, if you are looking at income tax, it raises the question of what proportion of income the top 10% earn. The higher the proportion, the less unfair it is. You can't quote one statistic out of context. It also raises the question of why anyone would look at income tax in isolation, since it contributes a minority of the overall tax yield. Presumably because it is a progressive tax, so helps support a narrative. But of course, you're better than that.

jbeadlesbigrighthand

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UK General Election 2017 Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: UK General Election 2017 Thread

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