UK General Election 2017 Thread

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:03 am

First topic message reminder :

CONTINUE

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:28 am

DUP rule out any deal with Labour while Corbyn is in charge so that minority government dream dies a little more
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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

He's like George Osborne's little brother. Undoubtedly highly intelligent, but not very likeable. He'd be right at home in the 1920's. chin Certainly not the kind of person you could ever see being popular with voters, or the "face" of the party.

Or a Tory Peter Mandelson, if you like...

I'm genuinely not convinced he's that intelligent, think he appears more intelligent than he is because he's well-spoken.

He's a cartoon character who can't be taken seriously.


So is Boris Johnson, but that doesn't stop him being likeable...not to mention highly intelligent (even if he doesn't always come across that way) and as former mayor of London, a vote winner.

Boris Johnson is a character from the Thick of It, Jacob Rees Mog is full on a character you'd expect to see in the Simpsons.

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Yay, we lost! Fantastic result!

That quote going across the bottom of the screen from Corbyn is one of the more bizarre things I've seen in life "Pretty clear who won this election"


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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:33 am

With Labour, it's a bit like losing the first leg 5-0 then winning 3-0 in the return leg.

Whereas the Tories have scraped by on away goals
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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:38 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Yay, we lost! Fantastic result!

Haha!

We still did better than expected though... she lost... and now we want to form a Government... even though I lost as well.

dEmOcrAcY at its best. All hail the Manifesto! Sure Mussolini. You are so kool, Duke.
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:39 am

As amusing/depressing as this all is the big question to be answered is where on earth did May and her strategists get the data suggesting they would increase their majority with the possibility of a landslide.

It is a serious question as she is likely to continue as prime minister and we must question the information she is making decisions on.

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Post by Samo on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:41 am

Ent wrote:As amusing/depressing as this all is the big question to be answered is where on earth did May and her strategists get the data suggesting they would increase their majority with the possibility of a landslide.

It is a serious question as she is likely to continue as prime minister and we must question the information she is making decisions on.

I think if the election was the day after she called it she would have gained a massive majority. The fact she made a Kumquat of herself everytime she opened her mouth combined with the press actually having to be balanced with Corbyn and his policies caused the massive swing.

She's out her depth. If she somehow does cling to her job the EU will walk all over her - but she's prepared for that with her 'No deal is better than a bad deal' Poopie she was spouting off.

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:44 am

As Trump might say: "Get ready for a real bad bad deal. And I mean bad. Bad as."

Phuck, there's no reset button is there?
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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:48 am

Samo wrote:
Ent wrote:As amusing/depressing as this all is the big question to be answered is where on earth did May and her strategists get the data suggesting they would increase their majority with the possibility of a landslide.

It is a serious question as she is likely to continue as prime minister and we must question the information she is making decisions on.

I think if the election was the day after she called it she would have gained a massive majority.  The fact she made a Kumquat of herself everytime she opened her mouth combined with the press actually having to be balanced with Corbyn and his policies caused the massive swing.

She's out her depth.  If she somehow does cling to her job the EU will walk all over her - but she's prepared for that with her 'No deal is better than a bad deal' Poopie she was spouting off.

Yes but throughout the campaign they were saying the polls were wrong and to wait on the results, they were campaigning in seats they ended up having little chance of winning based on whatever analysis they had.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:50 am

Crimey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote: I'm a big fan of Rees-Mogg 

Says it all really. He's a caricature of a politician.

He's like George Osborne's little brother. Undoubtedly highly intelligent, but not very likeable. He'd be right at home in the 1920's. chin Certainly not the kind of person you could ever see being popular with voters, or the "face" of the party.

Or a Tory Peter Mandelson, if you like...

I'm genuinely not convinced he's that intelligent, think he appears more intelligent than he is because he's well-spoken.

He's a cartoon character who can't be taken seriously.


So is Boris Johnson, but that doesn't stop him being likeable...not to mention highly intelligent (even if he doesn't always come across that way) and as former mayor of London, a vote winner.

Boris Johnson is a character from the Thick of It, Jacob Rees Mog is full on a character you'd expect to see in the Simpsons.

Sideshow Mogg? Laugh
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:54 am

Ent wrote:As amusing/depressing as this all is the big question to be answered is where on earth did May and her strategists get the data suggesting they would increase their majority with the possibility of a landslide.

It is a serious question as she is likely to continue as prime minister and we must question the information she is making decisions on.

Indeed. I don't think any government has been so badly misinformed since Blair decided we should send our armed forces into Iraq to stop them using WMDs.

That said, she (and they) did run a very poor one-dimensional campaign, built around Brexit and "strong and stable leadership" which May undermined by refusing to do TV debates and producing a less-than-thrilling manifesto, which didn't really answer any questions.

So I think even if the data was correct, they basically threw away their advantage with a very bad campaign in which she came off as aloof and authoritarian, tunnel-visioning on Brexit and not putting enough effort into addressing other issues.
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:55 am

the polls were right its just that over the course of the election labour managed to get their message across better.

Looking on social media 8 weeks ago the comments were very anti-corbyn but that all changed after the first election debate. After that the comments started to become more pro-labour and as the debates became more frequent labour gained more support on the forums and social media groups I use.

I posted videos on here with comment sections from bbc news, itv news and facebook comments showing the support corbyn was getting online.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:57 am

Farron about to make a statement, slight suspicion he's been pushed
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 11:59 am

vince cable will be the new leader

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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:02 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:the polls were right its just that over the course of the election labour managed to get their message across better.

Looking on social media 8 weeks ago the comments were very anti-corbyn but that all changed after the first election debate. After that the comments started to become more pro-labour and as the debates became more frequent labour gained more support on the forums and social media groups I use.

I posted videos on here with comment sections from bbc news, itv news and facebook comments showing the support corbyn was getting online.

As I said before the conservatives were very confident the polling data was incorrect and their private data was correct and they would have a majority.

No last minute bump to the incumbent either, been a very strange election.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:03 pm

Lib Dem HQ looks like it's manned by the chess club
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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:06 pm

Funeral going on for Clegg
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:13 pm

Any suggestions that anyone has come out of this election with any credit is wide of the mark, there's been incompetence on both sides and both the Tories and Labour should be embarrassed that they didn't romp to a 97esque majority.

Closing the gap is seen as a moral victory but it's nothing of the sort and has to be placed in context; The Tory campaign was awful and the worst I can remember, I voted for them because of misplaced loyalty and truth be told because of a strong dislike for Corbyn and Abbott, even now I'm relieved that this country has a semblance of hope. On the flip side it's hard to imagine any other Labour leader not romping to victory faced with such a terrible directionless manifesto, we all know Brexit is coming but maybe concentrate on other issues.

It brings into sharp focus when you see UKIP voters jumping ship to Labour that so many of them voted Yes in the referendum purely because of immigration and they should be ashamed.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:16 pm

Sturgeon reeling out the same old speech

Lacks bite when you lose 2 of your big 3 last night
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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:23 pm

No it wouldn't mate because thereally would be specific exclusions for example for businesses based in the mainland. Given 20 years the EU could give us a very good deal which still isn't as good as eu membership but they don't want to put the effort in for us and politically 20 yeas is a no go. For ī8 however and any other of their members they will bend over backwards to find a way and sorting out the Irish border issue is a major headache for UKG so they might allow some sort of leeway. That said it's unlikely to happen and the blame for the failure of the Irish border issue will be the UK's. So EEA probably
3

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:29 pm

I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.

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Post by temporary21 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

Oh the humbling on this thread 

It's a real delight

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Post by Samo on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:31 pm

Im assuming the Daily Mail will run a 13 page spread on the DUP's association with terrorism?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:34 pm

Theresa probably needs to have a meeting with Dacre before the DUP to ensure she still has the bigot support

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:39 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:42 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.

I think Andy Burnham would have given it a good go. I'm still amazed he didn't win the Labour leadership.

Still, I'm sure he's happy in his new role.
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Post by Samo on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:47 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

Disagree. Jeremy Corbyn is an integral part as why Labour got so many votes. Yvette Cooper would be a vote for the status quo so the Lib Dems probably would have picked up a large amount of votes, and turnout would be a lot lower than it was.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:47 pm

what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:47 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.

For sure - but it is also important to note that Corbyn and more specifically his historical baggage was the main thing holding Labour back from further gains. Whether one outweighs the other, I don't have a clue.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:48 pm

Difference I guess is would one of the alternatives ate much more into the center the Tory vote. But who knows
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Post by Samo on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:49 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

They were formed by alot of members of the Ulster Resistance which were a large paramilitary group during the troubles.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:49 pm

GSC wrote:With Labour, it's a bit like losing the first leg 5-0 then winning 3-0 in the return leg.

Whereas the Tories have scraped by on away goals

Absolute bollox.

Great night for Labour...They thought they were going to lose heavily.


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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

Thats certainly true, to an extent. However Labour did fully cost their manifesto (or so they say). I'm sure they'd have been able to implement a lot of the pledges.

That said, I'm also pretty sure they would have ended up taxing everyone, instead of just the high earners. I also don't like to think what would have happened to the national deficit and the economy in general.

Can't agree about Yvette Cooper though. She's never struck me as hugely popular and general elections rely on the support of the public. Corbyn tapped into that more than anyone else I've seen since Blair. Unless she was prepared to somehow tread the line and appeal to Conservative voters on Brexit...




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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:50 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

start there lol

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:51 pm

Samo wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

They were formed by alot of members of the Ulster Resistance which were a large paramilitary group during the troubles.

That sounds quite worrying. It is a bit ironic then that Conervatives were saying Corbyn supports terrorism when May has just invited a terrorist group to form a government with her.

What views do the DUP have? I know they are pro-brexit but what are their views on education and the nhs and austerity etc. Does anyone know.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:52 pm

Well done to the kids...Who wanted more than "He is a terrorist"..

She will be gone by 2018.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:53 pm

Does Musclular mean anything? I've been desperate to edit the username for months now...

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:55 pm

Samo wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

Disagree.  Jeremy Corbyn is an integral part as why Labour got so many votes.  Yvette Cooper would be a vote for the status quo so the Lib Dems probably would have picked up a large amount of votes, and turnout would be a lot lower than it was.


It's all pie in the sky anyway because someone like Cooper or Burnham would have been within striking distance months ago which wouldn't have resulted in a referendum. There isn't a chance that Theresa May runs a similar campaign against either of them and ends up with a bigger vote share, she underestimated young people falling for a bribe.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:55 pm

May looks happy
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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:56 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Does Musclular mean anything? I've been desperate to edit the username for months now...

haha it was a typo.

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Post by GSC on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

Dolphs a teacher isn't he, he has an urge for these things
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:00 pm

Bravo everyone, if you thought a Tory government was bad you've just facilitated something much much worse.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:00 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:
Samo wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

They were formed by alot of members of the Ulster Resistance which were a large paramilitary group during the troubles.

That sounds quite worrying. It is a bit ironic then that Conervatives were saying Corbyn supports terrorism when May has just invited a terrorist group to form a government with her.

What views do the DUP have? I know they are pro-brexit but what are their views on education and the nhs and austerity etc. Does anyone know.

Meh, the whole "terrorists" angle is old hat now.

Ever since Blair (via Mo Mowlam and US Senator George Mitchell) negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, which also involved the UDP and Sinn Fein.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/good_friday_agreement

Former Irish paramilitaries have been central to Irish politics for nearly 2 decades now (the most famous / notorious being Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness).

Trying to label them terrorists for political gain now is pretty laughable IMHO and even in bad taste, given the recent attacks in London and Manchester.


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Post by Ent on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:01 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

Thats certainly true, to an extent. However Labour did fully cost their manifesto (or so they say). I'm sure they'd have been able to implement a lot of the pledges.

That said, I'm also pretty sure they would have ended up taxing everyone, instead of just the high earners. I also don't like to think what would have happened to the national deficit and the economy in general.

Can't agree about Yvette Cooper though. She's never struck me as hugely popular and general elections rely on the support of the public. Corbyn tapped into that more than anyone else I've seen since Blair. Unless she was prepared to somehow tread the line and appeal to Conservative voters on Brexit...





Not relevant now but it wasn't fully costed - they just said it was.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:02 pm

Ent wrote:Not relevant now but it wasn't fully costed - they just said it was.

And May wasn't strong or stable, she just said she was.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:02 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Samo wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think you have got to give Corbyn credit for his campaign, and igniting youth interest. I don't see any of the alternatives put forward last time as people capable of that.


I still feel that they false promises and it's easy to say these things when you're going for the rebellion vote rather than a realistic chance of getting into power, all round it's highlighted everything wrong with politics. Make no mistake about it Yvette Cooper would have got into power yesterday were she the Labour leader.

Disagree.  Jeremy Corbyn is an integral part as why Labour got so many votes.  Yvette Cooper would be a vote for the status quo so the Lib Dems probably would have picked up a large amount of votes, and turnout would be a lot lower than it was.


It's all pie in the sky anyway because someone like Cooper or Burnham would have been within striking distance months ago which wouldn't have resulted in a referendum. There isn't a chance that Theresa May runs a similar campaign against either of them and ends up with a bigger vote share, she underestimated young people falling for a bribe.

Where was the bribe?

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UK General Election 2017 Thread - Page 11 Empty Re: UK General Election 2017 Thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:03 pm

Free tuition fees Dolph, was never going to happen but got people voting.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:03 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Where was the bribe?

Tuition fees I presume, although I don't think that's a central point for many.

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Post by Crimey on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:04 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:
Samo wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:what links does the DUP have with terrorism or violence? Does anyone know?

They were formed by alot of members of the Ulster Resistance which were a large paramilitary group during the troubles.

That sounds quite worrying. It is a bit ironic then that Conervatives were saying Corbyn supports terrorism when May has just invited a terrorist group to form a government with her.

What views do the DUP have? I know they are pro-brexit but what are their views on education and the nhs and austerity etc. Does anyone know.

Meh, the whole "terrorists" angle is old hat now.

Ever since Blair (via Mo Mowlam and US Senator George Mitchell) negotiated the Good Friday Agreement, which also involved the UDP and Sinn Fein.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/good_friday_agreement

Former Irish paramilitaries have been central to Irish politics for nearly 2 decades now (the most famous / notorious being Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness).

Trying to label them terrorists for political gain now is pretty laughable IMHO.


It's relevant though when the Conservatives spent so much time saying it about Corbyn.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 1:04 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Where was the bribe?

Tuition fees I presume, although I don't think that's a central point for many.


Labour getting the vote in Canterbury would suggest otherwise.

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