UK General Election 2017 Thread

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 8:03 am

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Post by Galted on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:39 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Also, hilarious that the Tories repeatedly used the term "coalition of chaos" to describe Labour. Now they're in bed with a load of right-wing religious fundamentalists.

Don't know what the panic about having religious fundamentalists helping to govern is all about, having this lot in the government will be even more entertaining than a Dianne Abbot interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ibEaIPtMk
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 9:55 am

A disappointing night for the SNP but it shows how far they have come when it is called disappointing but are still in possession of more seats than Tories and Labour combined. Were the results warped in anyway? I think the surge Labour got in England and Wales late on also happened in Scotland. There was a real burning desire by many to unship May more than anything whilst Scottish Tories were successful rallying the yoons to vote for them.

If people look back at my posts on here (on independence) I have said I was happy to wait a few years for the next referendum if the opportunity affords itself. That could come about if May is allowed to preside over a hard Brexit and the effects of them begin to kick in.

As for the UK well May's position is absolutely untenable. Her stubborness in trying to cling on after such a debacle is embarrassing. However, not as embarrassing as jumping into bed with the DUP - a party with links to terrotism, anti-gay and with some crazy beliefs. SinnFein have pointed out that Stormont talks cannot go on in future with this set-up as the British government used to act as arbitrater in negotiations between Sinn Fein and the DUP. That situation has now changed since the DUP now has this Tory government over a barrel. I would not be surprised if there will be another election within a year.
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Post by Crimey on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 10:57 am

One of the problems with PR and coalitions is that it ends up harder to bring about meaningful change as no matter what, it's going to be some combination of the parties that were there before. 

Currently in the UK for example, the Lib Dems would pretty much always be in government, even though less people are voting for them.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

And the reason the LibDems had more votes than the SNP is that the LibDems have candidates across the whole of the UK whereas the SNP candidates only stand in Scotland.
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Post by Scottrf on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:16 pm

Well i dont think they would get many votes in England.

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Post by GSC on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:26 pm

I dunno, I think Scottish Independence could be a real vote winner in England
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Post by Samo on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:28 pm

GSC wrote:I dunno, I think Scottish Independence could be a real vote winner in England

Shame its seems you're stuck with us now.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 12:36 pm

I don't see the big deal about Scottish independence to be honest. It will have no affect on my life, no affect on my job, no affect on anything I do in my free time and I imagine the same could be said about near enough every other non-scot British person so I don't see why people in England and Wales oppose it so much.

Basically just clinging on to the union for no real reason other than to have a union.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 3:21 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:
Samo wrote:The conservatives only got 2% more of the vote,   Can we all agree the FPTP system needs to go?  

SNP get 35 seats with 900k votes while the Lib Dems get 12 seats with more than double that.  The Greens get 500k votes for 1 seat while the Tories and Labour are averaging about 50k each a seat.

I still like you elect a MP that supposedly represents your area on a national stage. Not sure how that fits into PR

Same here.

I also like that it requires a pretty seismic shift to get a different party into government. With PR its possible there would be far less stability and much more frequent changing of governments.
What? Than what we've had over the last couple of years and are going to have over the next one???? Not sure there's been many claims that the WWII coalition 'didn't get anything done' has there?

PR etc gets the same press all the time. It's bunkum. U.K. is probably too dumb to work out how it functions. It's not like we'd be the first to try it, so I'm sure many of these 'concerns' have been thought through before...

I like how you're very carefully choosing your example there Prawn.

How about the 3 consecutive terms won by Thatcher and Blair, followed by their successors Major and Brown?

Attlee got a couple of terms after WWII.

Conservatives had 3 successive terms under Churchill, Eden and Macmillan.

Harold Wilson had 4 terms in office, only interrupted by Ted Heath.


If you make it easier to change governments, then it follows governments will change more frequently, or at least the likelihood of this happening is increased.
Headscratch Me? Pr4wn?? Don't demean him that way! I'm not actually sure what your point is here, but I have to choose my example carefully (if you mean the WWII coalition) because there aren't any others really to choose as illustration in our dumb FPTP system are there?
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 2:26 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:
Samo wrote:The conservatives only got 2% more of the vote,   Can we all agree the FPTP system needs to go?  

SNP get 35 seats with 900k votes while the Lib Dems get 12 seats with more than double that.  The Greens get 500k votes for 1 seat while the Tories and Labour are averaging about 50k each a seat.

I still like you elect a MP that supposedly represents your area on a national stage. Not sure how that fits into PR

Same here.

I also like that it requires a pretty seismic shift to get a different party into government. With PR its possible there would be far less stability and much more frequent changing of governments.
What? Than what we've had over the last couple of years and are going to have over the next one???? Not sure there's been many claims that the WWII coalition 'didn't get anything done' has there?

PR etc gets the same press all the time. It's bunkum. U.K. is probably too dumb to work out how it functions. It's not like we'd be the first to try it, so I'm sure many of these 'concerns' have been thought through before...

I like how you're very carefully choosing your example there Prawn.

How about the 3 consecutive terms won by Thatcher and Blair, followed by their successors Major and Brown?

Attlee got a couple of terms after WWII.

Conservatives had 3 successive terms under Churchill, Eden and Macmillan.

Harold Wilson had 4 terms in office, only interrupted by Ted Heath.


If you make it easier to change governments, then it follows governments will change more frequently, or at least the likelihood of this happening is increased.
Headscratch Me? Pr4wn?? Don't demean him that way! I'm not actually sure what your point is here, but I have to choose my example carefully (if you mean the WWII coalition) because there aren't any others really to choose as illustration in our dumb FPTP system are there?

Doh

Sorry navybluePr4wn Run

Well I was just trying to point out that traditionally FPTP has often produced governments that run to 2 or 3 terms. Its only since the Cameron - Clegg coalition that things have got more "interesting".
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Post by GSC on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 2:34 pm

Gotta love the queens speech being delayed because goats skin paper takes longer to dry
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 2:50 pm

GSC wrote:Gotta love the queens speech being delayed because goats skin paper takes longer to dry

If some people get their way, the goatskin won't be the only thing hung out to dry. Wink
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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 3:23 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:Gotta love the queens speech being delayed because goats skin paper takes longer to dry

If some people get their way, the goatskin won't be the only thing hung out to dry. Wink
drumroll

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 2:47 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/13/leaders-banks-political-class-economic-failure-crisis

A fantastic piece about how the political class has become so detached from reality.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 2:53 pm

'Become' Rolling Eyes Robert Walpole was the heir to the family estate including 10 manor houses, which he inherited at 24.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 2:54 pm

Just read the piece. The Tories especially used to dictate the narrative, not any more.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 3:03 pm

Pr4wn wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/13/leaders-banks-political-class-economic-failure-crisis

A fantastic piece about how the political class has become so detached from reality.

I completely agree with this and I do think it does expand outside of just the political class. Those within certain bubbles are unaware of the realities that face millions of people in the country. I personally know many people whose lives have been made measurably worse as a result of the austerity policies of the Conservative government and I don't think recovery from the financial crash is as noticeable outside of London. 

As a recent graduate I can vouch for the sheer lack of jobs available to people right now, particularly if you don't want to move to London. Of my contemporaries, other than the few that moved to London for decently paid jobs, almost all were employed in non-graduate positions or were working for free in unpaid internships. There is a disconnect between "classes" and a lack of empathy from those who are comfortable is only going to make those differences more stark. The poor and the disabled have been repeatedly demonised and this article touched on the fact that the youth is a new target. 

There was a lot more positivity in this election compared to any that I can remember and I think a lot of people connected with that. Even if Labour promised too much, I would rather they manage to implement even half of their plans than the Conservatives implement all of theirs. Repeatedly they showed complete and utter lack of understanding of the suffering of people and how strongly people feel about this. The most striking example of this for me was the nurse on Question Time complaining about her pay and how colleagues were having to use food banks and Theresa May replied with the "magic money tree" soundbite.

My hope is that Corbyn continues to keep the pressure on May because that can only be a good thing. Either Conservatives have to address their policies in a meaningful way and realise that continuing current levels of austerity is not going to work, or they collapse and we can get some meaningful change.

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Post by GSC on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 6:36 pm

Farron resigns as Lib Dem leader, the Lib Dem values of tolerance to all were really conflicting with his christian values
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Post by dummy_half on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 7:32 pm

GSC wrote:Farron resigns as Lib Dem leader, the Lib Dem values of tolerance to all were really conflicting with his christian values

Doesn't come as a big surprise, and I think the religion thing was a useful excuse to get him out without anyone looking too hard at how ineffective a leader he has been - a couple of years of total anonymity when there was a gaping hole through the centre ground of UK politics. OK, I know the Lib Dems suffered for being part of the coalition (I do wonder if Clegg regrets either his debate performance or subsequent non-opposition to the tuition fee increase), but to actually lose vote share (even if they regained a couple of seats) shows how little impact Farron actually had.

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Post by MrInvisible on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 7:43 pm

The Lib Dems were a bit unlucky in the election - a handful of votes more in 3 or 4 constituencies and they would have had 15-16 MPs. That said, they performed poorly in a fair few seats they lost to the Tories (e.g. Hazel Grove, Cheadle, Yeovil, Wells, etc) and their campaign didn't make as much of an impact as it could have done.

I do think they need to be careful on who they choose - anyone tainted too much by the coalition could suffer the same fate as Clegg at next election.

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Post by GSC on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 7:44 pm

UK wide, they're the third runner in a 2 horse race. Actually did decently in the end.

Farron out of his depth overall though, suffered from a lack of options after the 2015 wipeout.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 10:03 pm

Jeremy Corbyn jumping on another national tragedy for political gain, it sickens me that people well the idiotic young can't see through him, disgraceful human being.

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 10:16 pm

Jeremy Corbyn proving he has a better record on the issues affecting the country*

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 10:17 pm

Of course he does.

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 10:21 pm

I dont remember you complaining about May's speeches after the London attack.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 11:48 pm

Jeremy Corbyn often stays with victims and people who suffered long after the cameras are gone. He also won the respect of the ww2 families after quietly discussing with them and giving them his time during the tie and anthem furore. So this rubbish about him being there to make political gain out of tragedy is risible. It's just before he wasn't considered a serious threat so his good deeds went unnoticed, now that he's got some political mileage out of a decent job against the odds you're beginning to see him in the media more often. Corbyn the politician is too naive and slightly batty with regards to his policies but Corbyn the man is a fine man, always has been. Thought he decked up Brexit both before and after mind you but still can't fault him in many aspects.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 16 Jun 2017, 12:36 pm

Reports a Sun journalist faked being a victim's relative to get into hospital where victims were.

Scum doesn't even cover it.
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