RG - Day 11

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Post by sirfredperry on Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:40 am

Due to Tuesday's rain, all four men's Q-F are scheduled for today plus two women's quarters. Bacsinszky took out Mladenovic yesterday and will face Ostapenko in the semis after the teenager overpowered Caroline W.
   Rafa, Novak, Andy and The Man to come through. Reckon Halep and Pliskova will reach the semis, with the winner of that one likely to take the title.
   Should Rafa win his 10th RG he would, I think, be on course to recapture the number one spot, particularly if he did well at Wimbledon. But should Djoko upset Nadal and then have a good Wimbledon then he might dislodge Andy.

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:24 am

Just realised another interesting record:

There have not been 2 consecutive Grand Slam finals without Djokovic since Wimbledon 2010 - that's almost 7 years ago!  Shocked
He has been incredibly consistent, and always when he lost early (which until recently was usually in the semis) he bounced back by making the final of the next major.

Will this series come to an end on Friday against Nadal (or today against Thiem), or will he once again prove to be the mental giant who can win matches by sheer willpower?

Even Federer, with his amazing run from W 2013 until AO 2010 had his series interrupted by two consecutive semis in 2005.
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Post by temporary21 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:04 am

Should be a great days tennis 

Anyone know any live radio for it?

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:11 am

The Roland Garros app includes radio!
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Post by Guest82 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:24 am

Nadal in 3
Djokovic in 4
Wawrinka in 3
Murray in 4

Halep in 3
Garcia in 3

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Post by sirfredperry on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:18 am

Very windy again today at the French as the men's matches begin.

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Post by Guest82 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:22 am

sirfredperry wrote:Very windy again today at the French as the men's matches begin.

Helps Thiem a lot I think.

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Post by temporary21 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:30 am

Roland garros radio!  I'm getting no work done today...

I'm backing theim for an upset here

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:36 am

Always amazes me how often Djokovic almost stumbles when hitting forehands and sometimes even backhands. He is known for his incredible flexibilty, reach and court coverage, but when the ball comes more towards him he is quite often off balance.
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Post by temporary21 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:40 am

Perhaps when it's tense it's his footwork that gets heavy. 

In wind especially he looks somewhat unsteady

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Post by Guest82 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:46 am

Thiem already 1/5 on break points...

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:48 am

Thiem playing pretty well so far, but this shows again what a montrous task it is to take Djokovic out.

Like in Rome, looks like a bit too much to ask to beat Djokovic & Nadal in consecutive matches. Shows the importance of the draw and avoiding these guys until the semis.
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Post by temporary21 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:00 am

Back level though

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:05 am

Nadal on cruise control and Carreno Busta may not see this through to the end. Nadal leads 6-2 1-0 and Carreno Busta had a MTO.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:09 am

I agree with Courier in that physically this set will be taking a lot out of him. You feel, therefore, that Thiem must win this set.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:12 am

Carreno Busta, with an abdominal injury, struggling to serve and trailing 6-2 2-0 and the handshake comes. Nadal through to the semis whilst Djokovic and Thiem tear strips off each other.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Carreno Buster retired pulled stomach muscle it seems.
Worried now for Rafa its been an easy ride to the semis he needed to be stretched

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:15 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:Carreno Buster retired pulled stomach muscle it seems.
Worried now for Rafa its been an easy ride to the semis he needed to be stretched

That would be the only concern I reckon.

Pre-clay court season I tipped Rafa to win RG and I have seen nothing yet to dissuade me from that.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:18 am

I'll say if Thiem doesn't win this tie-break then he will not win the match.
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Post by temporary21 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:26 am

Cat ... pidgeons. Something like that

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:27 am

And Thiem does take the first set after a gruelling set lasting 73 minutes. If Novak is to win this he has a long day in front of him. Rafa, meanwhile, is doing his post-match press conferences after his 45 minutes of graft.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:29 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Carreno Buster retired pulled stomach muscle it seems.
Worried now for Rafa its been an easy ride to the semis he needed to be stretched

That would be the only concern I reckon.

Pre-clay court season I tipped Rafa to win RG and I have seen nothing yet to dissuade me from that.

Shame for Carreno Buster he has been playing so well and was an ideal match-up for Rafa I thought he might even take a set or two off him he was that sharp against Raonic .. however it seems that match did the damage

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:33 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Carreno Buster retired pulled stomach muscle it seems.
Worried now for Rafa its been an easy ride to the semis he needed to be stretched

That would be the only concern I reckon.

Pre-clay court season I tipped Rafa to win RG and I have seen nothing yet to dissuade me from that.

Shame for Carreno Buster he has been playing so well and was an ideal match-up for Rafa I thought he might even take a set or two off him he was that sharp against Raonic .. however it seems that match did the damage

I don't know when the injury struck but the first set score was like I was expecting throughout - Rafa winning something like 6-2 6-3 6-1.
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Post by slashermcguirk on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:37 am

Djokovic is just so frustrating to watch these days. 5-4 up and 15-40 up, set there for the taking. Instead he capitulates and hands the first set over. A player of his experience should not be messing around, got to take those changes particularly as Thiem didn't even have to do anything special to save those break points.

The Novak of a year ago would already be a set up now. Even if Novak is to come back the longer this match goes on it is just going to make a Rafa win even more inevitable. So frustrating

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:43 am

slashermcguirk wrote:Djokovic is just so frustrating to watch these days. 5-4 up and 15-40 up, set there for the taking. Instead he capitulates and hands the first set over. A player of his experience should not be messing around, got to take those changes particularly as Thiem didn't even have to do anything special to save those break points.

The Novak of a year ago would already be a set up now. Even if Novak is to come back the longer this match goes on it is just going to make a Rafa win even more inevitable. So frustrating

That is what happens though with confidence and self-belief pegged back a few notches. Seen it recently from Murray as well. And Thiem breaks early on to leads 7-6 2-0.
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Post by Guest82 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:46 am

slashermcguirk wrote:Djokovic is just so frustrating to watch these days. 5-4 up and 15-40 up, set there for the taking. Instead he capitulates and hands the first set over. A player of his experience should not be messing around, got to take those changes particularly as Thiem didn't even have to do anything special to save those break points.

The Novak of a year ago would already be a set up now. Even if Novak is to come back the longer this match goes on it is just going to make a Rafa win even more inevitable. So frustrating

This version of Djokovic has no chance against Nadal. If Thiem/Goffin etc were playing at Djokovic's level then we would be giving them zero chance, the only thing that gives him hope is history.

Thiem is in better form and has a better chance of beating Rafa, if he's playing well then he can certainly make it close.

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:48 am

slashermcguirk wrote:Djokovic is just so frustrating to watch these days. 5-4 up and 15-40 up, set there for the taking. Instead he capitulates and hands the first set over. A player of his experience should not be messing around, got to take those changes particularly as Thiem didn't even have to do anything special to save those break points.

The Novak of a year ago would already be a set up now. Even if Novak is to come back the longer this match goes on it is just going to make a Rafa win even more inevitable. So frustrating

Djokovic has won many matches over the years because his opponents wilted. This is happening less nowadays. E.g. the guy with the bright sunglasses who beat him down under would not have been able to pull that off when Djokovic still had his aura. Now Thiem held firm at the end of the first set and started well in the second, got giving in to Djokovic' mental pressure.
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Post by slashermcguirk on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:49 am

And now broken in 2nd set, what is he playing at! This against a guy he beat 6-1 6-0 little over a week ago. Just shows how inconsistent he has become.

Problem for novak now is even if he has to win in 5, it is almost pointless as he will be spent for the match against Rafa. At this point it makes little difference if he wins or not, just shows you have to take your chances at this level. 15-40 up and 5-4 up in 1st set. Didn't even need to do anything special, just construct the point. Don't even get me started with the backhand to give up the tie break.

Very disappointing but I do like Thiem too

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Post by LuvSports! on Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:55 am

THIIIIEEEEMMMM

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Post by slashermcguirk on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:02 pm

Thiem by far the better player, Novak just so passive. The game could be up for Novak here soon if he doesn't get his game together

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:09 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Thiem by far the better player, Novak just so passive. The game could be up for Novak here soon if he doesn't get his game together

This sounds crazy at this time I know but if Novak can somehow muster the spirit, the consistency and aggression and win this third set I'd make him favourite to win believe it or not. If he wins this set then they will be approaching three hours of play and you'd begin to question whether Thiem can physically compete.



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Post by sirfredperry on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:10 pm

Well, Djoko is going to have to go to five if he he's to progress. Thiem hit a couple of incredible backhands in that final game of the second set. Can he keep it up?
Djoko has come back from these sort of situations before, but that's when he was playing a lot better than today.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:15 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:Thiem by far the better player, Novak just so passive. The game could be up for Novak here soon if he doesn't get his game together

This sounds crazy at this time I know but if Novak can somehow muster the spirit, the consistency and aggression and win this third set I'd make him favourite to win believe it or not. If he wins this set then they will be approaching three hours of play and you'd begin to question whether Thiem can physically compete.


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:20 pm

Wow this is capitulation from Novak. A double break down trailing 3-0 and errors flowing from his racquet. Thiem on his way to face Nadal in the semis.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Thiem seems to be giving Novak a better tennis lesson than Agassi Shocked

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Post by sirfredperry on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:26 pm

Thiem about to serve for the match at 5-0. What is going on ? Novak seems to have given up.

It's all over! 6-0 to Thiem in the third. For the first time for a very long time Djoko has no GS title in his points tally.


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:29 pm

What a spectacular collapse that was. Thiem wins 7-6 6-3 6-0. Shocked
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:31 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Thiem about to serve for the match at 5-0. What is going on ? Novak seems to have given up.

It was crazy. Like an acceptance of the inevitable even though there was still a lot of tennis to play. All intensity evaporated from his play, errors flowed and he just looked like he'd rather be anywhere else than there. Weird.
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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:34 pm

How the mighty have fallen .. not taking anything away from Thiem he played superb .. but never have I seen Novak play so poor.  Can Thiem do the same to Rafa Erm

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:36 pm

prostaff85 wrote:Djokovic has won many matches over the years because his opponents wilted. This is happening less nowadays.
This time it goes even further: Djokovic himself wilts!

Credit to Thiem though, he is a true clay courter in the spirit of Guga, Muster and Nadal.
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Post by slashermcguirk on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:37 pm

Pains me to say this as a lifelong Novak fan but I kind of hope Novak retires. Sad to see an all time great put in such an embarrassing performance in a grand slam QF. All this against a guy he rarely even loses a set to.

I hope Novak bows out gracefully and I think now might be the time. I knew when he lost to kyrgios twice that things had become grim, then a pathetic performance against zverev last week.

Novak has achieved more than I ever thought he possibly could, I think it might be time to 'leave the stage'. He has achieved all he set out to achieve so what's the point in playing if the motivation and belief is clearly gone

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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:How the mighty have fallen .. not taking anything away from Thiem he played superb .. but never have I seen Novak play so poor.  Can Thiem do the same to Rafa Erm

Novak was pretty good until he lost the first set and noticed Thiem is not going to play some loose games to let him back into the match.
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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:42 pm

Thiem was the last person to beat Nadal (and it was on clay).  Thiem also beat Nadal on the clay last year.  In total Thiem has 2 - 4 record against Nadal on clay.  For an up and coming player that is a very good statistic to have against the king of clay.

Personally I am hoping now for a Murray vs Nadal final - I just would like to see if Murray can hold his own and not fold.  I think if Murray faces Wawrinka in the semi-final I would make Wawrinka a slight favourite to win.  So I guess a Wawrinka vs Nadal final is the most probable line up.  But who knows.  Maybe Cilic can beat Wawrinka and hopefully Murray can beat Nishikori and revenge his USOPen QF defeat.


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Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:44 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Pains me to say this as a lifelong Novak fan but I kind of hope Novak retires. Sad to see an all time great put in such an embarrassing performance in a grand slam QF. All this against a guy he rarely even loses a set to.

I hope Novak bows out gracefully and I think now might be the time. I knew when he lost to kyrgios twice that things had become grim, then a pathetic performance against zverev last week.

Novak has achieved more than I ever thought he possibly could, I think it might be time to 'leave the stage'. He has achieved all he set out to achieve so what's the point in playing if the motivation and belief is clearly gone

It is true I'm no Novak fan but have heart.. don't you remember us Nadal fans were saying exactly the same thing when Rafa went to pieces.. I too wanted him to retire, it was painful to watch him play, knowing he would lose but how badly was the question.. then looked what happened; the same with Fed if you remember.. a resurgence. Novak has other problems in my view. that are not tennis related..He needs to sort himself out and it will take more than Agassi or a new coach to do it. His mind is not on the court

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:44 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Pains me to say this as a lifelong Novak fan but I kind of hope Novak retires. Sad to see an all time great put in such an embarrassing performance in a grand slam QF. All this against a guy he rarely even loses a set to.

I hope Novak bows out gracefully and I think now might be the time. I knew when he lost to kyrgios twice that things had become grim, then a pathetic performance against zverev last week.

Novak has achieved more than I ever thought he possibly could, I think it might be time to 'leave the stage'. He has achieved all he set out to achieve so what's the point in playing if the motivation and belief is clearly gone

I'm not sure it has got to that stage yet. Heck look at the turmoil Del Potro has been through over the last few years but he is still out there fighting.

However, he needs a complete overhaul. He needs to have a good look at himself and what more he wants from his career from here on in. He needs more effort in situations like today in that third set and needs to look at all aspects of his game and mentality. At least with Agassi now to turn to it is a blank canvas and perhaps Agassi can help to re-establish Djokovic in the sport.
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Post by prostaff85 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:51 pm

Djokovic will drop to #3 in the rankings next Monday (and if Stan makes the final even to #4). But looks like he'll just hang on to his #2 seeding at Wimbledon thanks to his win there back in 2015.
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Post by slashermcguirk on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:53 pm

I hear what you are saying CC but to me Djokovics problems run deeper. He looks so passive on the court, he goes mentally walkabouts all the time. His game has become so passive, when I think of the level he was at playing Oz open last year when he utterly destroyed Federer and then beat Murray in the final. Even the US open final performance against Federer, there was so much conviction in all his shots and he just never gave up.

Now he to me looks like a guy that wants to be anywhere but the court. I genuinely believe his passion is gone and he has now turned 30. I know Federer is a freak but how many players seem to decline at that magic number. Even look at Murray this year all of a sudden.

I am happy for Thiem as he is a great player to watch and he seems a nice bloke. I really struggle to see a way back for Novak and for a great player like that, its not about playing to make up the numbers. If he genuinely believes he cannot win, you know its time to leave the stage.

To me he doesn't look willing to put the hours in on the practise court, he could probably have gotten away with it in the past but now his level has really dropped.

Its a shame as I thought in his 4th round match he played some good tennis in the last 2 sets but today it was like watching a hacker in your local club. Really sad to watch

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:55 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Pains me to say this as a lifelong Novak fan but I kind of hope Novak retires. Sad to see an all time great put in such an embarrassing performance in a grand slam QF. All this against a guy he rarely even loses a set to.

I hope Novak bows out gracefully and I think now might be the time. I knew when he lost to kyrgios twice that things had become grim, then a pathetic performance against zverev last week.

Novak has achieved more than I ever thought he possibly could, I think it might be time to 'leave the stage'. He has achieved all he set out to achieve so what's the point in playing if the motivation and belief is clearly gone
This is a throw the toys out of the pram response in my opinion.   A year ago Djokovic was winning the full grand slam with the biggest points haul ever.  In theory he could snap back into winning ways come the grass or hard courts.  My concern is that he got rid of the entire team responsible for his success - it worked for him.  Then he gets rid of them all.  So strange!  But Agassi is the man to get him back in my opinion - Agassi's psychological descent was deeper than Djokovic - but he got himself back to the top again including a period when he was playing challengers.  It all depends how much Djokovic wants it and how hard he is prepared to train.

Ps and let's not underestimate how good Thiem is on the clay.


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:58 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:I hear what you are saying CC but to me Djokovics problems run deeper. He looks so passive on the court, he goes mentally walkabouts all the time. His game has become so passive, when I think of the level he was at playing Oz open last year when he utterly destroyed Federer and then beat Murray in the final. Even the US open final performance against Federer, there was so much conviction in all his shots and he just never gave up.

Now he to me looks like a guy that wants to be anywhere but the court. I genuinely believe his passion is gone and he has now turned 30. I know Federer is a freak but how many players seem to decline at that magic number. Even look at Murray this year all of a sudden.

I am happy for Thiem as he is a great player to watch and he seems a nice bloke. I really struggle to see a way back for Novak and for a great player like that, its not about playing to make up the numbers. If he genuinely believes he cannot win, you know its time to leave the stage.

To me he doesn't look willing to put the hours in on the practise court, he could probably have gotten away with it in the past but now his level has really dropped.

Its a shame as I thought in his 4th round match he played some good tennis in the last 2 sets but today it was like watching a hacker in your local club. Really sad to watch

I feel your pain but those mental walkabouts and passiveness I feel are more frame of mind issues. These issues are scars from many months out of top form taking big losses, surprise losses and loss of that invincibility aura with it. Those issues there are no quick fixes but I do agree there are deeper issues as well - DESIRE. How much of a fire still burns within? Can Agassi rekindle that fire with words of wisdom? We shall find out.
CaledonianCraig
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RG - Day 11 Empty Re: RG - Day 11

Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:02 pm

Does it occur to you that the man is a human being and may have problems that are not related to his job.. unless he can sort out any personal issues he may have (and its my belief he has that's why he does not seem to want to be out there) it will carry through to his tennis. I bet he is feeling worse than you at the moment at any rate.

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