Argentina vs England, 1st Test

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Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 3:49 pm

Match Details

Venue: Estadio del Bicentenario, San Juan
Date: Saturday 10th June
Time: 20:15 BST
TV: BBC2



Officials

Referee - Nigel Owens (Wales)
Ass 1 - John Lacey (Ireland)
Ass 2 - Egon Seconds (SA)
TMO - Aaron Paterson (NZ)


Teams

Argentina - 15 Joaquin Tuculet, 14 Matias Moroni, 13 Matias Orlando, 12 Jeronimo de la Fuente, 11 Emiliano Boffelli, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 1 Lucas Noguera Paz, 2 Agustin Creevy (c), 3 Enrique Pieretto, 4 Matias Alemanno, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 6 Pablo Matera, 7 Javier Ortega Desio, 8 Juan Manuel Leguizamon.

Replacements: 16 Julian Montoya, 17 Santiago Garcia Botta, 18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 19 Guido Petti, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Gonzalo Bertranou, 22 Juan Martin Hernandez, 23 Ramiro Moyano.



England - 15 Mike Brown, 14 Marland Yarde, 13 Henry Slade, 12 Alex Lozowski, 11 Jonny May, 10 George Ford, 9 Danny Care; 1 Ellis Genge, 2 Dylan Hartley (c), 3 Harry Williams, 4 Joe Launchbury, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Mark Wilson, 7 Tom Curry, 8 Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: 16 Jack Singleton, 17 Matt Mullan, 18 Will Collier, 19 Nick Isiekwe, 20 Don Armand, 21 Jack Maunder, 22 Piers Francis, 23 Denny Solomona.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 5:19 pm

Thanks for thread.too many players to list on who I'm looking forward to seeing. Both props curry solomona and maunder are the biggies.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by king_carlos on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 7:02 pm

Cheers LT. clap

Genge has a big challenge against a strong starting TH and another very good TH on the bench.

Hartley vs Creevy is a big match-up.

It's a very physical Argentina back row for Tom Curry to face up against at only 19.

It should be a very interesting and closely fought game. I'm looking forward to this one!

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 7:18 pm

Argentina missing some big players, we certainly have a good chance.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by yappysnap on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 7:23 pm

Can't wait for Beshocked to see that Yardes been picked!

Otherwise it's a really exciting team.

Slightly concerned by 10,12,13 defensively. And what they'll do if they are closed down by an aggressive defence. I can see a lot of kicking, or else turnovers, if Argentina get to them behind the gain line.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 7:32 pm

You've missed it on the other thread Yappy.

Apparently Lozowski is a beast in defence so we'll be fine.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:04 pm

king_carlos wrote:Cheers LT. clap

Genge has a big challenge against a strong starting TH and another very good TH on the bench.

Hartley vs Creevy is a big match-up.

It's a very physical Argentina back row for Tom Curry to face up against at only 19.

It should be a very interesting and closely fought game. I'm looking forward to this one!

He did not bad against a pretty decent trio for the Baa Baas. PLus don't forget he'll have the machine that is Mark Wilson with him who wont take a backward step and let Curry do the technical breakdown stuff (much like Robshaw does when he plays!)

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:05 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You've missed it on the other thread Yappy.

Apparently Lozowski is a beast in defence so we'll be fine.

The trouble with "beasts" is that they can't think quick enough, I would prefer that he was a bigger version of Ford and made his tackles without going backwards, that backrow is very mobile and will be covering closely enough to drive back any ground made through the tackle. If the Argies knock him back without support they will get turned over.

I am a great fan of Wilson as well, he does everything to a very good standard and with Underhill could cause them a lot of problems.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Poorfour on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:18 pm

Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:31 pm

Poorfour wrote:Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

Covfefe?

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:43 pm

Poorfour wrote:Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

Rugby has moved on from 15 or so years ago.

I agree you don't have to be big to be an effective defender but having one physical player from 10-13 can help.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:50 pm

That's why jones has been praying for Manu and has brought T'eo into the fray.

I still think Sam James is worth a look.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:00 pm

Exactly GF, a physical option is needed. Te'o looks pretty good, love Manu to come back.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by lostinwales on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:18 pm

Poorfour wrote:Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

Agree with all of that (except the spelling...) I do think that at least Ford doesn't try to go for the big hit and is therefore more effective at making the tackle, although he won't stop anyone on the gain line, except for Alex Goode. He also shouldn't get hurt as often as JW did.

As above I'd feel happier with a big lump in the centers, but I think we'll manage.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 9:37 pm

Im pretty sure Jones probably didn't expect T'eo to go to the Lions and probably had him penned in to start at 12 in Argentina....

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Hood83 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 3:22 pm

Poorfour wrote:Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

Isn't that a pretty big midfield?! 100kg seems like a decent bit of timber for the midfield and a LOT more than our current selection. Still, we have to use what we have I suppose.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Hood83 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 3:24 pm

Poorfour wrote:Here were the size and weights of a certain well known midflield:
1.78m 89kg
1.93m 100kg
1.85m 102kg.

Guess which one was the hardest tackler? (Hint: his tackle on Mortlock at the start of the RWC would have been an instant yellow today).

You don't have to be hyowge to be an effective defender.

Compared to the current lot that's huge.

Ford - 84kg
Slade - 87kg
Lozowski - 92kg

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 3:53 pm

I've trained in all sports...from boxing to martial arts, powerlifting and rugby.

I've witnessed many times that size can mean everything...or it can mean nothing.
There's so many variables including mental attitude.

Lets take that famous midfield for example.
Tindall was 6'1 and 16st and Greenwood was 6'4 and 16st yet there was a very clear difference in their physicality on the pitch. They balanced so well. And of course they had JW at 10 who himself was far more physical on the pitch than his size would suggest him capable.

Personally I like a real tough un in the midfield. And I'll say again that's why Jones was desperate for Manu to come back and why he's brought t'eo in . Of course he's almost playing himself into a starting spot with the Lions.....imagine for England in the autumn

10 Farrell
12 T'eo
13 Joseph

That has some physicality about it.




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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by lostinwales on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 6:02 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I've trained in all sports...from boxing to martial arts, powerlifting and rugby.

I've witnessed many times that size can mean everything...or it can mean nothing.
There's so many variables including mental attitude.

Lets take that famous midfield for example.
Tindall was 6'1 and 16st and Greenwood was 6'4 and 16st yet there was a very clear difference in their physicality on the pitch. They balanced so well.  And of course they had JW at 10 who himself was far more physical on the pitch than his size would suggest him capable.

Personally I like a real tough un in the  midfield. And I'll say again that's why Jones was desperate for Manu to come back and why he's brought t'eo in . Of course he's almost playing himself into a starting spot with the Lions.....imagine for England in the autumn

10 Farrell
12 T'eo
13 Joseph

That has some physicality about it.


And who knows, maybe after a decent pre season and a few months injury free (we can only hope) Manu might actually be in the mix come 2018 6N.

Interesting times ahead. We are not that far away from pretty much only having Billy as confirmed first choice.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 6:22 pm

If Tuilagi ever gets back we have a serious team.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 7:25 pm

Well I'm not holding my breath for manu. And Teo might fight for that spot,

I'm not sure we have and bull dogs in the midfield aside from those two.

Sam James is 6'4 and 15st but probably more like Greenwood than Roberts/ Manu/

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:12 pm

Come on boys....time to put some markers on the 30 players missing and that first XV Team!

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:17 pm

Catch the ball Yarde after we've all defended you ha ha

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:23 pm

Andy Robinson.......jesus.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:23 pm

Id say England will lose this one. This is a good pumas side

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:24 pm

We look like what we are a makeshift side....

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:25 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Andy Robinson.......jesus.

Is he?! You'd have thought with the ability to perform miracles he'd have had more success as an international coach....

Yahoo

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:26 pm

I thought the hit wasn't employed in the scrum anymore.

Argentina keep doing it

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:27 pm

I'll still go with england will win this...though I'm not liking the director and camera men...or Andy bloody Robinson.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:29 pm

Commentry is dreadful.

Scrum getting a bit of a hiding so far.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:30 pm

Was two turnovers by curry on the trot...or was the second one Wilson?

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:31 pm

2 by curry

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

I didnt see any???

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

Thought it was.

The boy is a real hope isn't he.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:33 pm

Two clean poaches Sgt....mcCaw would have been proud.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Scottrf on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

Alright Yarde is useless.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:36 pm

You sure? Seen him get the loose ball but the other was a knock on I thought

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:38 pm

Loose ball. Counts. Then a proper over the ball turnover.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:38 pm

Yeah yarde is gash!

Nah sarge two clean poaches.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:39 pm

Needs hartley and Launchbury to calm the pack down a little. Test for them as the experienced guys.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Scottrf on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:41 pm

Big carry from Wilson. GF happy I'm sure.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:42 pm

Where is Hughes explosiveness gone dance he's come you international level?

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:43 pm

Scottrf wrote:Big carry from Wilson. GF happy I'm sure.

Yes mate he's not afraid to do that!

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Scottrf on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:43 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Where is Hughes explosiveness gone dance he's come you international level?

Start on the shandies during the Lions game?

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:44 pm

And mark just won that aswell...that's where he's so good in the tight!

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:45 pm

Scottrf wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Where is Hughes explosiveness gone dance he's come you international level?

Start on the shandies during the Lions game?

Speckled hen mate. Bloody predictive text.


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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:45 pm

Seen that one! C'mon Wilson

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:46 pm

Wow Yarde is world class!

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by Scottrf on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:46 pm

National treasure scores!

Enjoying this half.

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

Post by cascough on Sat 10 Jun 2017, 8:47 pm

There's that pace that Lozowski is lacking

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Re: Argentina vs England, 1st Test

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