Why did it go so badly for the Conservatives?

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 09 Jun 2017, 8:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

So the election is over and what was predicted to be an easy election just 8 weeks ago where the tories had a 20 point lead which would have resulted in a 100 seat majority has in fact turned into a horrible night for the tories where they actually LOST their majority.

So what went wrong? Was it the election debates that May appeared on? Was it May refusing to debate Corbyn 1v1? was it the dementia tax? or the U-turns? What was it that made her lose a 20 point lead in the space of 7 weeks?


Or was it just that Corbyn ran a better campaign?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 6:17 pm

corbyn has just sacked 4 frontbenchers for voting against his wishes..

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 7:00 pm

Link? Can't see that on any news sites.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 7:10 pm

BBC will tell you so

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 7:18 pm

Oh yes, thought it would have been a headline!

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Post by Fernando on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 7:26 pm

For those that can't be bothered to search it.

Ruth Cadbury, Catherine West and Andy Slaughter had been sacked by the leadership while shadow transport minister Daniel Zeichner had resigned.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 2:28 pm

Labour imploding again.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 2:44 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Labour imploding again.

This time last year 150 mps would have been defying the whip.....More interesting to see the former rebels that didn't vote for Umunna's amendment.......

Corbyn is slowly getting a grip on his party...

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 12:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Labour imploding again.

This time last year 150 mps would have been defying the whip.....More interesting to see the former rebels that didn't vote for Umunna's amendment.......

Corbyn is slowly getting a grip on his party...


Safe to say that the front bench of the Tories are making a play against Theresa May talking out against the public sector pay cap; Johnson, Gove, Hunt and Davis aren't the people you want against you.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 12:29 pm

Shame they all voted against it last week...

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 1:02 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Shame they all voted against it last week...
Laugh Typical bunch of t*ssers then I guess....
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 3:56 pm

According to the Sun...Corbyn postponed his shadow cabinet reshuffle because no one wanted to be in it.

20 new Ministers have just been appointed...Some of them former rebels...

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 2:23 am

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 11:42 am

Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:01 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.


I doubt any of them particularly care but it gets votes.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:02 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.


I doubt any of them particularly care but it gets votes.
Politicians in a nutshell.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:05 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.


I doubt any of them particularly care but it gets votes.
Politicians in a nutshell.


There's a few who buck the trend but it's all a power play to try and gently leverage power from May.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:46 pm

[quote="Hammersmith harrier"][quote="navyblueshorts"][quote="Hammersmith harrier"]
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.

Hammer has chucked fiscal incompetence at Labour and magic money trees for six weeks..and now the Tories are bribing the DUP and Boris is talking about pay rises with money we didn't have a month ago it is all about politics..

Lack of consistency perhaps..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:53 pm

Lack of economical understanding on your part more than anything Truss, it was the collective Labour manifesto that was ripped apart not the individual policies which in isolation are affordable, it's not difficult really.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 1:11 pm

Yep..Everyone who isn't a Tory is thick....

Standard reply from you...


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Post by Scottrf on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 1:24 pm

Heard a politician on the radio come out against the public sector pay rise because it could lead to the private sector following suit.

How terrible that would be...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 1:24 pm

Opinium.....

Lab 45
Con 39
Lib 5

ICM.....

Lab 43 +9
Con 41 -5

Ouch.. Wink

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 3:59 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.


I doubt any of them particularly care but it gets votes.

You're happy to admit this and then vote for these loathsome, self-serving sycophants?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:01 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Boris Johnson and Michael Gove now care about public sector pay. Extraordinary.
Boris doesn't care a jot - he's just climbing on the latest bandwagon.


I doubt any of them particularly care but it gets votes.

You're happy to admit this and then vote for these loathsome, self-serving sycophants?
You do exactly the same by voting for Labour.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:06 pm

I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:07 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him but you'll struggle to get your head around that hence why he prioritised Glastonbury over Armed Forces day, less to gain from the latter.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him.

This from a guy that wants Boris Johnson as PM....

Give it a rest..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:09 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him.

This from a guy that wants Boris Johnson as PM....

Give it a rest..

Do you know the difference Truss, I know Johnson is duping the public but the Corbynistas are oblivious to it.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:13 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him.

This from a guy that wants Boris Johnson as PM....

Give it a rest..

Do you know the difference Truss, I know Johnson is duping the public but the Corbynistas are oblivious to it.

Lazy stereotyping mixed with conjecture.............

Stick to what you know rather than what you want to believe..

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:15 pm

It is what I know, it doesn't fit your agenda Truss so you like to dismiss it, the Corbynistas tend to be lacking upstairs.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:29 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It is what I know, it doesn't fit your agenda Truss so you like to dismiss it, the Corbynistas tend to be lacking upstairs.

More lazy stereotyping and conjecture.......

What I know is the Tories had a 20 point lead and a majority four weeks ago.....(Which is as good an endorsement for lacking upstairs as I can think of !! laughing )

That is a statement I can back up.....Feel free to follow suit.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:33 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him but you'll struggle to get your head around that hence why he prioritised Glastonbury over Armed Forces day, less to gain from the latter.

Care to back that up with anything at all? Or is that just blind conjecture, as Truss said?

I'll cite Corbyn's voting history, spanning back over thirty years.

Your turn.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:36 pm

His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:37 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

As far as I am aware, he voted against those particular terms of peace, he wasn't in anyway in favour of not getting peace.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:39 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

Looks like someone is very selective about where he reads his news.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:40 pm

Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

As far as I am aware, he voted against those particular terms of peace, he wasn't in anyway in favour of not getting peace.


Of course, easy to say these things looking back when they don't affect you, strange how the young think they're experts on 1980's politics when they weren't there.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:40 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.


He believes in saying whatever to get people to vote for him but you'll struggle to get your head around that hence why he prioritised Glastonbury over Armed Forces day, less to gain from the latter.

Care to back that up with anything at all? Or is that just blind conjecture, as Truss said?

I'll cite Corbyn's voting history, spanning back over thirty years.

Your turn.

It's absolutely the weirdest criticism you could throw at Corbyn because his voting record has been so consistent and so often in opposition to popular politics. You can argue that perhaps in desperation the public are putting their faith in "protest politics" and that's what Corbyn represents, but in no way can you say he's simply picking policies to make himself more popular. Why would a politician who has sat in the backbenches for 30 years campaigning for what he believes in suddenly become a populist who only cares about being elected?

He has made compromises as any leader has to, for the support of the party and the general public, but his major policies are entirely consistent with his voting pattern and public speeches.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:42 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

As far as I am aware, he voted against those particular terms of peace, he wasn't in anyway in favour of not getting peace.


Of course, easy to say these things looking back when they don't affect you, strange how the young think they're experts on 1980's politics when they weren't there.

Of course, those who profess to be experts always use the term "as far as I am aware" before they make a statement. It's a sure-fire sign that they have 100% conviction in what they're saying...

I'm sure you were an expert of Corbyn's political views in the 1980s, as you are of all in consequential backbenchers of the past 30 years. Your deep study and character evaluation of the 100s of backbenchers means you truly are an expert on the political views and decisions of all the MPs means you can feel comfortable making broad assertions.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:44 pm

You're learning at last.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:47 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're learning at last.

Again, not engaging in the argument. Just wumming.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:48 pm

That lady crying on his shoulder at Grenfell is all you need to know..

I imagine that pie in the sky policies and prior bad company becomes irrelevant... when life is a struggle and you know the guy is on your side...

The human touch is a powerful weapon.

Not to be under estimated.


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That lady crying on his shoulder at Grenfell is all you need to know..

I imagine that pie in the sky policies and prior bad company becomes irrelevant... when life is a struggle and you know the guy is on your side...

The human touch is a powerful weapon.

Not to be under estimated.



He does enjoy a good photo opportunity i'll give him that.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

Public sector pay u turn to come..
Free school meals u turn
Fox hunting u turn
No magic money tree u turn...

What a mess...

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Post by Scottrf on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:07 pm

U-Turn vs listening to the public.
Photo OP vs Wanting to help in a tragedy.

It's all perspective

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:51 pm

U turn is a u turn...

I think it is safe to say they knew scrapping free meals and reinstating fox hunting was unpopular before they lost the majority.


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:11 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:His voting history also showed him vote against peace talks in Ireland but we won't talk about that.

He voted for the Good friday agreement..

You don't back up any of your posts...Up your game.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 8:59 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.
Ah yes, Corbyn the angel :

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/corbyns-woeful-record-on-defence
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Post by Pr4wn on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:07 pm

A fair and balanced piece Rolling Eyes

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:20 pm

Pointing out Corbyn voted for the GFA...

Means you're a fan apparently...You can't win debates by hitting and running.

Navy and Hammer take note.

I voted Green..

But..."Teresa May can find a billion to keep herself in a job but she can't find a billion to keep nurses in theirs"..

#Touchdown/Gameover

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Post by Samo on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 6:48 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.
Ah yes, Corbyn the angel :

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/corbyns-woeful-record-on-defence

For every negative (albeit incredibly biased) article about Corbyn I can drag up atleast 10 about the Conservatives. Just this week David Cameron has said that reducing the cap on public sector wages would be selfish. How can anyone justify that? Especially given the state the countries been in and the job they've done in the past 3 months.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 9:42 am

Pr4wn wrote:A fair and balanced piece Rolling Eyes
picard And the problem with it is? Is it true or not re. Corbyn's position on Kosovo? It doesn't play to your preferred view, which is fine, but it suggests that he isn't the saint he's painted to be. Pretty much like every other politician. Wipe the scales from your eyes why don't you?

Samo wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I live in Canada and I'm not from the UK, so I don't.

Also, for the record, Corbyn's voting history, especially when compared to that of his Tory counterparts, is immaculate. He actually believes in his policies.

Might be difficult for you to get your head around, with you being a Tory voter.
Ah yes, Corbyn the angel :

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/corbyns-woeful-record-on-defence

For every negative (albeit incredibly biased) article about Corbyn I can drag up atleast 10 about the Conservatives. Just this week David Cameron has said that reducing the cap on public sector wages would be selfish. How can anyone justify that? Especially given the state the countries been in and the job they've done in the past 3 months.
picard Do you have some sort of whataboutery qualification? The Tories and their current policies are neither here nor there when discussing Corbyn's position on Kosovo and Milosovic etc.

Corbyn is being painted as some sort of whiter-than-white saint. I'm not even a Tory, but I'm fed up with this increasing narrative that Corbyn has somehow descended from Heaven.  He hasn't. Get over it.
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