The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

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The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by international198 on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 7:06 pm

I'm British but I still think that the Lions will lose 3-0 against the All Blacks. I think the All Blacks are the best team in the world by a long way. I think the All Blacks will comfortably win all three test matches.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Griff on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 7:21 pm

ghost

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 10:19 pm

Interesting POV - I'm going to have to go away and think about that one. Will get back to you soon.
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by emack2 on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 5:27 am

A truly incisive thread? Whistle Whistle Whistle

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by rainbow-warrior on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 6:47 am

My word, the depth of knowledge is beyond reproach.
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Exiledinborders on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 9:35 am

Tumbleweed

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 13 Jun 2017, 11:45 am

Thank you that's most helpful. picard
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Ineffable on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by beshocked on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

You are underestimating the Lions, even with some poor coaches they still have good players.

It's not like the England football which has both poor coaches and poor players.

By beating the Crusaders, the Lions have managed to salvage some credibility.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Griff on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 11:49 am

Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

Or is it just such a tall order, making a scratch team with new moves, new calls, etc. into one that can beat the best team in the world? Not sure that Gregor Townsend (backs) or Eddie Jones, for example, would make a huge amount of difference.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 11:53 am

Only 3-0!
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:05 pm

I think the All Blacks are so good that they will beat the Lions 6-0, maybe even 7-0.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by TightHEAD on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

I'd take a 6-3 defeat.

Farrell should get us one kick at least.
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 1:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I'd take a 6-3 defeat.

Farrell should get us one kick at least.

I meant in the series Smile Smile

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Taylorman on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 7:15 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:I'd take a 6-3 defeat.

Farrell should get us one kick at least.

I meant in the series Smile Smile

Yes you need to be clear Pete, in some places 3-0 actually does represent a score in a rugby match. ..honest! Whistle

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 8:31 pm

Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

Or is it just such a tall order, making a scratch team with new moves, new calls, etc. into one that can beat the best team in the world? Not sure that Gregor Townsend (backs) or Eddie Jones, for example, would make a huge amount of difference.

Not really a tall order, the calls they use are basic and familiar to plenty of the players who provide coaching to the other players

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Griff on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 8:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

Or is it just such a tall order, making a scratch team with new moves, new calls, etc. into one that can beat the best team in the world? Not sure that Gregor Townsend (backs) or Eddie Jones, for example, would make a huge amount of difference.

Not really a tall order, the calls they use are basic and familiar to plenty of the players who provide coaching to the other players

So any other coaches the Lions could have chosen would beat the All Blacks easily this tour? Righto.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 8:50 pm

Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

Or is it just such a tall order, making a scratch team with new moves, new calls, etc. into one that can beat the best team in the world? Not sure that Gregor Townsend (backs) or Eddie Jones, for example, would make a huge amount of difference.

Not really a tall order, the calls they use are basic and familiar to plenty of the players who provide coaching to the other players

So any other coaches the Lions could have chosen would beat the All Blacks easily this tour? Righto.

Sorry where did I say that?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Griff on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 8:58 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:You don't even have to be the best team in the world to beat the lions 3-0. I think anything above 8th in the world would probably do.

Not knocking players, just the awful coaching staff.

Or is it just such a tall order, making a scratch team with new moves, new calls, etc. into one that can beat the best team in the world? Not sure that Gregor Townsend (backs) or Eddie Jones, for example, would make a huge amount of difference.

Not really a tall order, the calls they use are basic and familiar to plenty of the players who provide coaching to the other players

So any other coaches the Lions could have chosen would beat the All Blacks easily this tour? Righto.

Sorry where did I say that?

Well... I argued that perhaps it's not actually awful coaching but that it could just be a tall order to go out there try to beat the best team in the world with a scratch team, and that any coaches would struggle to get a result. You replied that it's not really a tall order, suggesting you disagreed with my point and you agreed with Ineffable that it is just down to awful coaching. Or did you quote me/us in error?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:07 pm

No I argued that learning the calls isn't as complicated as you make it out, it was a pretty simple point yet seems there were more layers to it than was actually there

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:11 pm

How can a Lions coach make any difference when there is only one weapon in their armoury - selection. That's all they have.
It doesn't matter.what nation the selector is from, he won't know opposition players, what they can do and what buttons to press.
It is nonsense to think there is ANY coaching on a Lions tour!

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:12 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:How can a Lions coach make any difference when there is only one weapon in their armoury - selection. That's all they have.
It doesn't matter.what nation the selector is from, he won't know opposition players, what they can do and what buttons to press.
It is nonsense to think there is ANY coaching on a Lions tour!

Thats the most absurd thing Ive ever read on here, that really takes some effort

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:13 pm

Have you ever played rugby?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:19 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Have you ever played rugby?

Have you ever been on a Lions tour?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Scottrf on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:22 pm

Why did Gatland fly out if the job is over once selection is done?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:22 pm

At best the set plays are rudimentary and certainly no better than division two club standard compared.to a professional outfit like the ABs.
Take the kicking coach for example - what's he going to tell Sexton?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Scottrf on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:25 pm

The Lions don't have a kicking coach...

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:26 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:At best the set plays are rudimentary and certainly no better than division two club standard compared.to a professional outfit like the ABs.
Take the kicking coach for example - what's he going to tell Sexton?

I'd assume guys like Howley and Jenkins offer a bit more insight there

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:26 pm

Even if the coaches had some super idea for a move when do they practice it? There isn't the time. All those 'uncharacteristic' handling errors are a bit of a clue

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:29 pm

Obviously the Lions don't have a kicking coach nor any other for that matter.
BTW what does Jenkins do apart from carry the tee onto the pitch - does that count as coaching!

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:29 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Even if the coaches had some super idea for a move when do they practice it? There isn't the time. All those 'uncharacteristic' handling errors are a bit of a clue

And how do you think they know where to throw during the lineout and who has to jump and lift?

You ever think that it takes time to gel?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by marty2086 on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:30 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Obviously the Lions don't have a kicking coach nor any other for that matter.
BTW what does Jenkins do apart from carry the tee onto   the pitch - does that count as coaching!

What do you do other than bitch an moan about the Lions?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 9:37 pm

The last throw in the Blues game was a system error caused by a bunch of strangers having no time to gel. Real pressure tests the coaching and that set piece fell apart. It needed tweaks and time and practice, none of which are repeatable with such a ridiculous tour. That particular circumstance won't be repeated because the personnel will be totally different. They have limited enough time to practise new moves never mind failed ones.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 14 Jun 2017, 10:14 pm

marty2086 wrote:What do you do other than bitch an moan about the Lions?

I also present reasoned arguments supporting the idea that the Lions are disastrous for NH rugby. Wink   I acknowledge that the Lions are a money making golden goose that is deemed to be more important that any rugby concerns, so will be here for the foreseeable future.

In answer to your previous question - no I never have been on a Lions tour, and never will be. It would be a blast no doubt on a personal level, but it would be hypocritical to support something that is so damaging to club and country which are things I do care about.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Taylorman on Thu 15 Jun 2017, 12:59 am

The Great Aukster wrote:The last throw in the Blues game was a system error caused by a bunch of strangers having no time to gel. Real pressure tests the coaching and that set piece fell apart. It needed tweaks and time and practice, none of which are repeatable with such a ridiculous tour. That particular circumstance won't be repeated because the personnel will be totally different. They have limited enough time to practise new moves never mind failed ones.

No it wasn't. It was caused by a poor throw by a human. Systems don't throw the ball into a lineout.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 8:19 am

Anyone heard from WR referee's boss about why Poite changed his mind after awarding a penalty in front of the posts to the ABs to win Test 3 and then not awarding a penalty? Rolling Eyes
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 8:58 am

Were they reviewing it? He changed his mind on the deliberate action of it though quite obviously.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:02 am

NZR asked for an explanation and are waiting because what happened is a penalty all day every day. Hence why he awarded the penalty. But then didn't......tick tock tick tock
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:12 am

Did they? Why? I did see hansen call in general for a simplification of the offside rule.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by englishborn on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:18 am

really time to move on me thinks

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:23 am

Point has moved on. Now relates to simplification of rules, though clearly strays into use of the tmo again. I think the latter is where most inconsistency remains in relation to reffing.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:26 am

Why? I'm not sure 7.5. Maybe because it was a game defining moment and we'd all hate to see it happen again.

When a referee makes the correct decision but is then talked out of it by his bent compatriot on the side line after having a discussion in French then the collective eyebrows get raised.

It was telling when Poite brought in the two captains and said something to the effect of ...."aw shucks guys, I really am a yellow bellied chicken sh*t, how about we call it a draw because, you know, it's been a really tight series, and if I make this correct decision to award a penalty and the ABs win then I'm really going to cop it when I return home up north".....or something to that effect.
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:30 am

I think it's only game defining if you ignore everything else in the game ebop!

Correct me if I'm wrong and then explain your point to me but it appears you're saying that the outcome here is there should have been a penalty following owens catching the ball and that the pen would definitely have resulted in 3 points and nz would have won? If so and it is just a moan about not winning and seeing this 1 moment as all important can I just ask why you're ignoring Read being ahead of the kicker at the kickoff?

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:34 am

Just waiting for WR and the Irish referee's boss to clarify after a polite request was made

That 'is' the point

Waiting waiting waiting
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:35 am

The outcome was fair as Read was offside at the kick off and the ball did not go forward from the catch in the air so it should have been play on or a penalty on half way for the Lions. Despite what Hanson says if they had played on there is no guarantee that it would have been a try if they played on so fair result in the end.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:37 am

So why are you ignoring Read being offside ebop. I think we all know why Poite reached the decision; he thought it wasn't deliberate. I disagree with that but I know why he made it.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:41 am

Ok good. You disagree with his decision to 'not' award the penalty. So do a lot of people. So why did it happen? NZR have asked WR of the question. But they don't feel like it's important to clarify why a referee in an important game can make up laws on the spot in cahoots with his bent compatriot AR.
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:42 am

ebop wrote:Ok good. You disagree with his decision to 'not' award the penalty. So do a lot of people. So why did it happen? NZR have asked WR of the question. But they don't feel like it's important to clarify why a referee in an important game can make up laws on the spot in cahoots with his bent compatriot AR.

probably because it is fairly irrelevant as the ball didn't go forward from the catch anyway.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by ebop on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:43 am

This Read nonsense is a red herring. I can point to incident after incident that could have been called back but wasn't throughout the series. Not the point.

The issue 'is'

Poite awarded a penalty

But then didn't

For no good reason
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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 10:46 am

I don't believe Poite is bent as you put it and he clearly believed owens dropping the ball immediately was.enough.to say it was.deliberate but instinctive reaction.

So you do agree that read was ahead of the kicker and it should have been scrum lions on half way.

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Re: The British & Irish Lions have no chance of beating the All Blacks, IMO

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