Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

  
ChiefsBritish & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW


Last edited by George Carlin on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:28 pm

Fair enough then. It's a hard job defending gatland.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:04 pm

Not sure how Halfpenny has gotten all this criticism, he's had long spells injured and when I've seen him play for Toulon he has been very good. Don't think he's missed a kick this tour either.

Gatland could have tactics spot on, defence is looking very good and with a gk'er of Halfpenny's quality they do have a chance in the first test. Wouldn't mind a bit of rain Saturday though.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by R!skysports on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:46 pm

R!skysports wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

And the Scots have been going on since the '97 tour! Run

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:54 pm

No9 wrote:...the bit that has taken me back this time is the vile words being said by past Lions...
JPR Williams set a precedent there. Here he is, speaking with Gavin Henson, and happily recalling the abuse he heaped on Woodward when the 2005 tour was barely under way.

Let's talk about the Lions. I take no pleasure from saying this, but I predicted before the series that it would all go horribly wrong...It was a disgrace. Were you aware of the stick that Clive Woodward was taking back home? I think I might have started it!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/nov/06/rugbyunion.features

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:20 pm

R!skysports wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

Yeah some haven't moved on from that either. The difference being that 2013 was a win, and 2005 a horrible loss. Like No9 alluded to there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey, taking his mates on holiday, etc. compared with Gatland who's doing what's necessary in the most demanding schedule we've seen in the professional era. Either way I think people should also move on from 2005.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:47 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...
No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by chris_501 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:32 pm

I'm hopeful that those starting XV players tomorrow come out all guns blazing like the teams that have played on Saturdays. Although it's unlikely they will play this Saturday, they can easily force their way in for the 2nd and 3rd tests.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:05 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...
No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:10 am

If any coach did what Gatland did he would get a hard time, regardless of what nationality he coached. All the talk of how special it is to get a shirt and marketed as the 'untouchables', just makes a mockery of what it means to be a Lion.

Should have just taken out 3-4 extra players at the start - guys like Hartley, Launchbury are so much more deserving to wear the red shirt. Even if the Lions win the series, I don't agree with this at all.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by TightHEAD on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:42 am

I hope the midweek plodders give us something to cheer about today.

It's been a trying few days down here since Lions shirts get handed out like free drinks at a wedding.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by TJ on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:42 am



Not sure how Halfpenny has gotten all this criticism, he's had long spells injured and when I've seen him play for Toulon he has been very good. Don't think he's missed a kick this tour either.

He is a fine player but a bit too "steady Eddie" for many of us. With attacking options like loopy Liam around many of us want to see a counter attacking fullback not a safty first full back. It makes me want to cry every time I see him kick away ball that could have been counter attacked

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:58 am

It just seems too conservative to highlight 1/2ps kicking, as good as he is from the tee their are more attacking options at full back. From the tee he's worth about 3 points more than Farrell but does that compensate for Williams or Watson being more likely to create something on the counter?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by R!skysports on Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:15 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...
No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...


No no no

Please stop the victim card ad every turn. It is starting to sound like trumpism.

We keep highlighting player (including the Welsh ) who are playing well but you still shout the anti Welsh rubbish

Some of us do. Not like his style of rugby and safety first but that is not anti Welsh

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by chris_501 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:50 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It just seems too conservative to highlight 1/2ps kicking, as good as he is from the tee their are more attacking options at full back. From the tee he's worth about 3 points more than Farrell but does that compensate for Williams or Watson being more likely to create something on the counter?

The issue is with those two is that you lose a degree of defence. Halfpenny is certainly a great place kicker, but also has a fantastic kick out of hand under pressure, as well as being a fantastically positioned fullback most of the time. He may not be as sexy attacking wise, and I probably would have liked to see Williams given more of a run there for Wales, but with no Hogg, he's the only regular international fullback left in the squad.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by chris_501 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:54 am

R!skysports wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...
No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...


No no no

Please stop the victim card ad every turn. It is starting to sound like trumpism.

We keep highlighting player (including the Welsh ) who are playing well but you still shout the anti Welsh rubbish

Some of us do. Not  like his style of rugby and safety first but that is not anti Welsh
We simply will not win if we try to score more tries than the AB's. Wales tried it last summer, they played some of the best attacking rugby that I have seen from them in years. While it stayed fairly close for 50 minutes, the AB's ended up blowing Wales away.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 am

I don't think there's one style to beat any team even new zealand. We have the pack to be able to get good control.over this game and 2 fly half's who can take advantage get us into the right areas and play. Yes the midfield.is one dimensional at the present but that back 3 are quality players.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by yappysnap on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:18 am

Aggressions the main thing I guess, aggression and being clinical. When England and Ireland beat NZ they were both able to knock NZ back and stop their momentum throughout the game, something I think the Lions can do. BUT both teams were also able to match NZ for tries, never letting NZ get on a role or score in tandem. I don't think the Lions can do this.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:35 am

Yes, yes. Your tongues look lovely. Can we get on with the game please?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:46 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, yes. Your tongues look lovely. Can we get on with the game please?

Hey, the Lions' management requested that all the Super Franchises do a Haka so the players could be used to it in time for the tests. Don't blame us
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:50 am

Deserved yellow? Sounds it from the radio.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:50 am

What a complete plonker. Marler isn't the sharpest, is he?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:51 am

Marler is a knobb
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:51 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Deserved yellow? Sounds it from the radio.

No doubt. A clear late shoulder charge. Completely mindless stuff.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:52 am

It's alright lads Alan Dell is on!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:53 am

That's Marler's test spot gone, and perhaps his tour if he gets a citing. That was idiotic to be polite about it.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:53 am

What did he do?
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:54 am

Serious question

Who is the bigger plonker

Marler or Brown?
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:54 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What did he do?

Late shoulder charge.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:55 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What did he do?

Late shoulder charge.

It was later than that even. Wink

On a serious note though, that could end his tour if cited, he knew exactly what he was doing there. Oh well.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:56 am

Told you - Alan Dell dominating! Smile

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by BigGee on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:57 am

Alan Dell did not disgrace himself in his first Lions scrum!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:58 am

Joking aside Dell has become a solid international prop this season with Scotland - it's not a huge surprise!

Ben Kay giving Dell the credit for the penalty too.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:03 am

In all fairness I have never noticed him, but he is really showing his credentials out there today, fair play to the kid. Has he always been this decent or has he come on a lot lately ?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:03 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Joking aside Dell has become a solid international prop this season with Scotland - it's not a huge surprise!

Ben Kay giving Dell the credit for the penalty too.

Good decision by Gats to call him up Smile

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:05 am

LordDowlais wrote:In all fairness I have never noticed him, but he is really showing his credentials out there today, fair play to the kid. Has he always been this decent or has he come on a lot lately ?

At the start of this season he was 3rd choice loosehead at Edinburgh never mind a regular for Scotland! He's greatly benefited from Alan Dickinson and Rory Sutherland (last season's number 1 and 2 for Scotland) pretty much being inured all season. He was thrown in at the deep end against Australia in the Autumn Internationals and played well and I think he's been involved in every Scotland game this season whether starting or on the bench.

He's not the biggest but has good technique and is dynamic around the pitch.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:05 am

Rory Best is standing out well as captain so far as well, he is calling all the shots around him and he is taking the game to the Chiefs.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 am

Sounds like the Chiefs lineout has been terrible.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 am

Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:13 am

ebop wrote:Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.

What ?

Chiefs line out has been amateur at best, why is it never the fault of anything New Zealand in rugby when things are going wrong for them ?Rolling Eyes

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:15 am

Just saying it's poor form
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:18 am

Chiefs line out has been rubbish, not disputing that
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:21 am

ebop wrote:Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.

The things people focus on when losing Rolling Eyes
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by BigGee on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:23 am

Finlay Christie, the Scottish SH for the Chiefs, is having a very good game, especially given the quality of ball he has been getting.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:24 am

It's just funny, big forwards screaming like girls. We're not used it down in NZ. It's just a weak thing to do.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:24 am

Haven't heard Henshaw's name being mentioned on the radio - how's he playing?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 am

ebop wrote:It's just funny, big forwards screaming like girls. We're not used it down in NZ. It's just a weak thing to do.

So is getting food poisoning.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 am

Sounds like a decent enough first half from the Lions - could do with getting a bigger lead to avoid the inevitable last 15 capitulation!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by BigGee on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Haven't heard Henshaw's name being mentioned on the radio - how's he playing?

He is not playing himself into the Test team!

Nowells might be though, he is playing much better. Done more this half than George North has on the whole tour so far!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:27 am

Ok scott, let's leave it now, your team is winning so just rejoice in that
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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