Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 12:27 pm

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ChiefsBritish & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW


Last edited by George Carlin on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Doesn't Halfpenny get bitched at for having a big boot? Not sure what more Daly can offer. I wouldn't start North, it would either be Williams or Seymour over him.
Pace.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

robbo277 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
EST wrote:Good win.

How bad must those cannon fodder players be feeling right now.  

To say this Lions tour has been an emotional roller coaster so far would be an understatement.

Absolutely raging at the initial selection. mad
Even more fuming at Gatland's hilarious comment about I wasn't thinking about nationalities. furious
Devestation for Youngs and Billy V Sad
Happy for Laidlaw Smile
Haskell? Laugh
Then the tour departed
Then our shattered players struggle against the NZ part timers vomit picard
Get battered by the Blues and that amazing try and offload from sonny bill Erm
Then beat the Crusaders Yahoo
However Hogg is injured by Murray steam Sad
Then the highlanders beat us Doh
and then it all takes a turn for the surreal Yikes
a bunch of undeserving nobodies get called in Wales Wales Wales  mad
and Finn Russell, the form 10 in the NH at the moment... king Braveheart
and then Gatland selects them for the bench against the chiefs  Erm
we win the game!!  Cool  Very Happy
but he decides they aren't even worthy of an appearance...  tomato  mad

So Finn Russell, who really should have toured from the start, watches from the sidelines as Alan Dell becomes Lion  Laugh  clap  tomato

I think that about sums up my feelings. I want the Lions to do well but jeez Gatland is a plank.

I think he might be sheltering them from public backlash. I wouldn't be surprised to see them all get run-outs next week.

I think the whole thing is a farce, but there is an interesting article in the telegraph about why the call-ups were made in the first place: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/19/sweary-conversation-2013-prompted-lions-controversial-call-ups/

I still think they should have called up the best players available, and if that means calling up players a week earlier, then that's what they should have done.

What if they try to get push Rory Best 80 minutes again against the Hurricanes and he breaks down? You've then got Dacey as first reserve for a test against NZ. When you could have had Hartley, Ford or Brown there.

Someone on the BBC article said it wouldn't be fitting for a player like Launchbury to miss a full international to sit on the bench for the Lions in midweek. It's the Lions, of course it would have been.

Very interesting article, Robbo.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Fanster on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:31 am

My verdict today;

Tight 5 proved again that we have the basics for a tight dominant game against anyone, and most were 2nd/3rd choice, Lawes was impressive but on another day could've cost us points and field position with his near penalties. Positive, but none bar Cole will challenge for a test spot without injuries.

Back row was unbalanced, Stander has struggled this tour, considering his name was all but on the 6 jersey for test 1 he'll be lucky to be involved. Haskell, well he gives you what we knew he would, he's a good athlete, and will enjoy midweek rugby. Tips, now heres an interesting one, at one point I thought he was being held back, limited gametime, but he was once again everywhere today, I dare anyone to rewatch this match and count the cover tackles he made, how often he thwarted quick ball, and how effectlive he was securing our ball. He is a large step above Warburton imho, and I'd at least be benching him, not looking likely after today.

Half backs, well what more can Biggar do, Laidlaw did his best to make him look bad, but he still gave 100%, and in no way will hamper a test gameplan. He can't do what Sexton can, but he does everything else better. With Faz injury, I see Biggar benching. Laidlaw I wouldve selected based on 6N, however he's been shockingly bad on tour, and I preyy the other two 9's stay healthy!

Centres were at a canter today, Henshaw is very classy, and a good decision maker, but he just doesnt offer the brutality of Teo, and we know Gatland loves that. Payne, well lucky to be selected, tried in a few places and has been lacking throughout, Haskell esque in his performances.

Back 3, this is where it gets interesting, Nowell played well going forward, but realistically he just doesn't get this defencive system and is constantly left at sea and flailing around, like an injured zebra in front of a tigerpack, and this is in numerous games! Daly poor once again, he just seems too slow of foot, of mind, maybe hes fatigued. Williams is finally where I would've selected him for initially, and he's shown that outside of the boot he is superior to halfpenny in every way, Now Hoggs gone I don't see how halfpenny beats Williams selection wise, I mean I know he will but still...

Overall those who improved their chances:

Cole
Lawes
Tipuric
Biggar
Nowell
Williams

Those who reduced their chances:

Best
Haskell
Laidlaw
Payne
Daly

I think we'll see one of Nowell or Wiliams bench saturday, and maybe even Tipuric, Cole and Biggar, i'd be surprised if anyone else did

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:31 am

marty2086 wrote:

It all comes down to game plan though, which is interesting when they say they are holding back some things


That means they're yet to try Howley's pop to the blind side winger off the back of a scrum...

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:32 am

Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:34 am

George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

You have cover in case of injuries. They didn't play because there weren't injuries?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:39 am

Scottrf wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

You have cover in case of injuries. They didn't play because there weren't injuries?

I'm with George, as Griff pointed out though none of us are really privy to what terms and conditions were agreed between the management and the players.

However this whole episode has left a bitter taste in the mouth.

Finn Russell is the form 10 available to the Lions, and he wasn't given a chance today. Pride and stubbornness is getting in the way of Gatland's judgement.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:43 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm with George, as Griff pointed out though none of us are really privy to what terms and conditions were agreed between the management and the players.

However this whole episode has left a bitter taste in the mouth.

Finn Russell is the form 10 available to the Lions, and he wasn't given a chance today. Pride and stubbornness is getting in the way of Gatland's judgement.

Just providing a counter to the outrage. We know that these players were called to protect the test team, not to fight their way towards a test spot. Whether Russell should have been called up at the start is old ground. But probably agree he should have had some game time, with a view to being an option in the later tests.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:46 am

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by chris_501 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:54 am

Scottrf wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm with George, as Griff pointed out though none of us are really privy to what terms and conditions were agreed between the management and the players.

However this whole episode has left a bitter taste in the mouth.

Finn Russell is the form 10 available to the Lions, and he wasn't given a chance today. Pride and stubbornness is getting in the way of Gatland's judgement.

Just providing a counter to the outrage. We know that these players were called to protect the test team, not to fight their way towards a test spot. Whether Russell should have been called up at the start is old ground. But probably agree he should have had some game time, with a view to being an option in the later tests.

However, there were some posters on here saying it wouldn't be fair on Russell if he got thrown on with 20 to go having played 80 minutes on Saturday and hadn't trained all that much with the Lions, because if he didn't play well, it wouldn't be a fair reflection of his game.

I would also argue that Biggar would have looked even better if the service from Laidlaw was a lot more nippy.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:57 am

Sounds like Biggar is better than Russell after all.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George. I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting? I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game. But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players. They scored him 8/10. Only Nowell got higher (8.5). And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too. Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance? Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries. That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Sounds like Biggar is better than Russell after all.


When he plays and Russell doesn't but not at any other time.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 11:59 am

Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:00 pm

It says a lot for either Biggar or the other fly halves that despite having Laidlaw's slow service he has looked the best option at this stage.

Farrell and Sexton haven't had good tours. Biggar starting the tests although unlikely, is in my opinion a smart move. He has played with intent, and gave that back division a bit more direction.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through. I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.

Talk about lack of balance...

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:06 pm

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through.  I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.  

Talk about lack of balance...

Yeah I remember that, in between live commentary we often see their comments highlighted. Seeing as I weren't watching I actually found that quite informative. The BBC NI guy also thought Henderson was worth a spot in the matchday squad for the ABs. We're lucky Henderson isn't welsh, otherwise GC would be even more depressed Wink.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through.  I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.  

Talk about lack of balance...

Yeah I remember that, in between live commentary we often see their comments highlighted. Seeing as I weren't watching I actually found that quite informative. The BBC NI guy also thought Henderson was worth a spot in the matchday squad for the ABs. We're lucky Henderson isn't welsh, otherwise GC would be even more depressed Wink.

Henderson had a decent game I'd say. So did Biggar. In my opinion he has played the best rugby from 10 in a Lions shirt all tour. He is still not the best 10 at the Lions disposal however.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:11 pm

Laugh

I just read the BBC update thingy after hearing so much about it on here, that Northern Ireland pundit made it out that Best was beating them all on his own at one point. Although he did not have a bad game, his throwing onto the line out fecked us up again on a few occasions. Also Ugo Moyne was pretty vocal about some of the English lads on there, so it was pretty balanced. I had to laugh at some of the twitter comments though.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:11 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Henderson had a decent game I'd say. So did Biggar. In my opinion he has played the best rugby from 10 in a Lions shirt all tour. He is still not the best 10 at the Lions disposal however.

You're right, I think Farrell should start too.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Breadvan on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:12 pm

Biggar could be in with a 2nd test place if Sexton/Farrell have poor games on Sat and he's played well tbf. Agree with Mikey on North, hasn't warranted a starting place at all so far. I'd have Watson and Williams on the wings with Daly on the bench as he can cover 3 positions if necessary. Halfp to start at F/B due to his metronomic boot.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:16 pm

I'd go with Williams at full back with Watson and Daly/Seymour on the wings, think that's the most attacking back three we have available. In Williams and Watson we have two players who are superb under the high ball in both attack and defence, won't happen but would be nice to see it.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:20 pm

Scottrf wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Henderson had a decent game I'd say. So did Biggar. In my opinion he has played the best rugby from 10 in a Lions shirt all tour. He is still not the best 10 at the Lions disposal however.

You're right, I think Farrell should start too.

First match against the NZ Barbarians aside Henderson has played pretty well and would be a good asset in the match day squad. I wouldn't disagree with him making that test 23. I think all locks are likely to be in the matchday squad at least once across the 3 tests as they're all playing pretty well. Biggar should be in the test 23 at some point too. I can't see the Welsh having that many in the starting XV, but this is the Lions and I'm fully behind anyone in that jersey.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote: Biggar should be in the test 23 at some point too.

Ahead of either Sexton or Farrell? On the off chance neither gets injured I dont see why. That he started this game is a pretty sure sign the decision has already been made regarding the 10 spot.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote: Biggar should be in the test 23 at some point too.  

Ahead of either Sexton or Farrell? On the off chance neither gets injured I dont see why.  That he started this game is a pretty sure sign the decision has already been made regarding the 10 spot.

I think people are in danger of overrating performances against a second string Chiefs team.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by rapidsnowman on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I can't see the Welsh having that many in the starting XV, but this is the Lions and I'm fully behind anyone in that jersey.

Look out Mikey someone has hacked your account!



Hug

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No9 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:54 pm

Good win by the Lions, but I think, only Williams improved his chances of being progressed to the Tests. Today, he was the player that worried NZ last year... Good to see.

Biggar had a good game, but there is no way he will overtake the 2 in front of him, but saying that, with Farrell carrying an injury, he made sure he kept the reserve spot.

Nowell had a great game today, but don't think he's done enough to prove he can cope defensively against the AB. Daly did nothing to help his cause.

Tips is once again unlucky, as cant see what he can do more to push himself forward, but no surprise as there's a strong back row there.

The front row today (accept for Marler's brain f@rt, and Best's wonky throws) didn't do anything wrong, but again, cant see any of these breaking through to the test selection without there being injuries.


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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:57 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote: Biggar should be in the test 23 at some point too.  

Ahead of either Sexton or Farrell? On the off chance neither gets injured I dont see why.  That he started this game is a pretty sure sign the decision has already been made regarding the 10 spot.

Because he's playing well (better than the ones you mentioned according to some) and is as good as Farrell/Sexton. I can see Gatland putting him on the bench for at least one test. Funny how ya'll are saying Russell can force his way into the 23 but take issue if someone suggests that Biggar may also do so.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:57 pm

Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

Ross Harries from Scrum V "player watched" him, and provided 5 updates across the 80 minutes on how he and he alone were getting on - over and above whatever mentions he got in the sparse live text and social media mentions.

Rory Best was also watched in this way by Nial Foster, and got 2 updates. No-one else was player watched.

Might not be specifically praise or criticism, but he was singled out to an extent.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:59 pm

He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:07 pm

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through.  I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.  

Talk about lack of balance...

If you use a find function and type in "Player watch" there are 7 matches. 5 for Williams, 2 for Best and none for Henderson (the entry for Henderson was a post-game comment).

8:53 - Williams
9:02 - Best
9:07 - Williams
9:16 - Williams
9:19 - Best
9:55 - Williams
10:11 - Williams

Other than the 5 Williams player-watches, there are no further matches for Harries' name, so he didn't discuss any other players specifically. In his 5 player watches, he mentioned Payne, Nowell and Daly when talking about interactions with Williams, but no other Welsh players.

I don't know why the commentary was so Williams focussed. It was odd. Not a massive deal though. The BBC live text coverage was fairly poor in general, that didn't bother me as much as other things.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:09 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:11 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.

Mikey bingo full house. Of course this is the only phrase on the bingo card because you're an insufferable repetitive bore.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by BamBam on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:12 pm

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.

Mikey bingo full house. Of course this is the only phrase on the bingo card because you're an insufferable repetitive bore.

Mikey and Beshocked have a lot in common, they should hang out on a thread

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.


Let's be honest here Mikey, Farrell isn't in Sextons league either so do away with the bias argument as it's the only one you seem to have.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:16 pm

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

Being pedantic and very sad I just went through it. It's actually 25 for Liam Williams, and 5 of those are for the 'Player Watch' heading with his name in it, 1 is for his name on the team sheet. It also includes his name mentioned in the pre-game chat too. 3 other 'Williams' mentions are for Tim Nani-Williams (x2) and Sonny Bill Williams. Using the same criteria Nowell had 27 mentions, including his name in headings, etc.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:18 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through.  I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.  

Talk about lack of balance...

If you use a find function and type in "Player watch" there are 7 matches. 5 for Williams, 2 for Best and none for Henderson (the entry for Henderson was a post-game comment).

8:53 - Williams
9:02 - Best
9:07 - Williams
9:16 - Williams
9:19 - Best
9:55 - Williams
10:11 - Williams

Other than the 5 Williams player-watches, there are no further matches for Harries' name, so he didn't discuss any other players specifically. In his 5 player watches, he mentioned Payne, Nowell and Daly when talking about interactions with Williams, but no other Welsh players.

I don't know why the commentary was so Williams focussed. It was odd. Not a massive deal though. The BBC live text coverage was fairly poor in general, that didn't bother me as much as other things.

Like I said, the ScrumV team seems to be there to comment on the Welsh Players and Nial Foster to comment on the Irish guys. It's been the same on all games so far, if you go back and look.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:19 pm

Despite this with Joseph left out altogether doesn't it suggest it's him of davies on the bench rather than williams or Daly?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by BamBam on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:21 pm

I am glad England is so well represented on the live text, English licence fee contributions seeing their fair share of coverage



Run





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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:22 pm

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

I was ducking in and out of this during work, are you referring to this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/40233744

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:23 pm

BamBam wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.

Mikey bingo full house. Of course this is the only phrase on the bingo card because you're an insufferable repetitive bore.

Mikey and Beshocked have a lot in common, they should hang out on a thread

I think he'd prefers yours and 7.5's company actually.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:25 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He's neither playing as well nor is he anywhere near as good as them Mikey, if Farrell and Sexton remain fit he won't be getting near the matchday 23.

Of course he is Hammer, we already know he's too welsh for you liking though.


Let's be honest here Mikey, Farrell isn't in Sextons league either so do away with the bias argument as it's the only one you seem to have.

Based on this season's form that isn't the case. Farrell has played very well where-as Sexton has played well but been less consistent in his performances. Biggar was and still is third choice but can force his way into being 2nd choice I reckon, sorry I know you don't want to hear that. #NotSorry

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:29 pm

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).
Yes Grifty - I was referring to the Scrum V propaganda on the BBC live feed. Liam Williams is mentioned 11 times.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan but there were almost 50 other players involved.


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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:29 pm

Griff wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

I've just looked back through.  I think perhaps what George is referring to is the ScrumV (BBC Wales) 'Player Watch' updates from Ross Harries where he comments on Welsh players. He does this for every game (assuming for the Welsh audience) and in this game he did it 3 times. Nial Foster does exactly the same for BBC NI and his player watch was Rory Best (twice in this game) and his 3rd player watch he mentioned Henderson.  

Talk about lack of balance...

If you use a find function and type in "Player watch" there are 7 matches. 5 for Williams, 2 for Best and none for Henderson (the entry for Henderson was a post-game comment).

8:53 - Williams
9:02 - Best
9:07 - Williams
9:16 - Williams
9:19 - Best
9:55 - Williams
10:11 - Williams

Other than the 5 Williams player-watches, there are no further matches for Harries' name, so he didn't discuss any other players specifically. In his 5 player watches, he mentioned Payne, Nowell and Daly when talking about interactions with Williams, but no other Welsh players.

I don't know why the commentary was so Williams focussed. It was odd. Not a massive deal though. The BBC live text coverage was fairly poor in general, that didn't bother me as much as other things.

Like I said, the ScrumV team seems to be there to comment on the Welsh Players and Nial Foster to comment on the Irish guys.  It's been the same on all games so far, if you go back and look.

But Harries didn't say anything on Biggar or Tipuric. The player watches picked one person each (a Welshman for BBC Wales and an Irishman for BBC NI) which I think is what George was objecting too - it does seem like he was singled out.

Normally if I'm at work I listen to it on the radio, only read it today because I forgot my headphones. I normally enjoy following the cricket on BBC, but maybe there was too much going on to follow a rugby game as easily, the feed seemed to be drowned in comments and less description of the actual action.


I was ducking in and out of this during work, are you referring to this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/40233744

Yep. If you're in Chrome, you can press CTRL + F the search bar will tell you how many matches there are, which makes it quicker to pick through. As Griff has corrected me, some of the mentions of Williams are for Tim Nanai-Williams and some are headings. However, he got more than just the one mention!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:40 pm

Looks like the back three impressed some in the NZ media this morning http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11879810
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:45 pm

I personally think Biggar should start the 1st test at 10.

He has been the best fly half for the Lions on tour. Sexton hasn't ever really fired and Farrell hasn't done much else either.

Biggar should start the test on merit on Saturday with Sexton on the bench IMO and Russell and Farrell should play against the Canes with Russell at 10 and Farrell at 12 to see if they can unlock some space for the back 3 and force their way into contention for test 2.


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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:45 pm

George Carlin wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).
Yes Grifty - I was referring to the Scrum V propaganda on the BBC live feed. Liam Williams is mentioned 11 times.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan but there were almost 50 other players involved.

Nowell 27 though. Why not pick up on that?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 1:46 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I personally think Biggar should start the 1st test at 10.

He has been the best fly half for the Lions on tour. Sexton hasn't ever really fired and Farrell hasn't done much else either.

Biggar should start the test on merit on Saturday with Sexton on the bench IMO and Russell and Farrell should play against the Canes with Russell at 10 and Farrell at 12 to see if they can unlock some space for the back 3 and force their way into contention for test 2.

Really?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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