Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by George Carlin on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 12:27 pm

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ChiefsBritish & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW


Last edited by George Carlin on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 10:13 pm

Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by DaveM on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 10:45 pm

Lots of good performances today. I always like to see a front row go the full 80. I thought Lawes and Biggar played well, and the back 3 were excellent. The only shame with Williams was he wasn't really tested in defence. Nowell looked back to his best, and I think he will figure later in the test series. I thought Daly looked really sharp, and I'd guess he will be on the bench on Saturday. Perhaps we'll see the full back 3 feature later in the series though.

That was another disappointing performance from a NZ side - they do seem to be struggling with the set piece, defence and the physicality of the Lions, and if the Lions back play clicks on Saturday we must have a chance.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 12:13 am

Think we might see Daly take North's place, North isn't close to his best and Gatland might want to make use of his left boot.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 12:18 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:00 am

ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:00 am

SamTheQuin wrote:Think we might see Daly take North's place, North isn't close to his best and Gatland might want to make use of his left boot.

I hope so, Daly or Nowell would be better at this stage.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:05 am

With both teams adopting very different playing styles my biggest fear is that this series will come down to refereeing. SH refs tend to be naturally biased towards their SH counterparts so at least there are two French refs this time. I really hope it isnt like the first test in '09 where the Lions were whistled off the park for the first 40 minutes of the series and never recovered.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:07 am

Also I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the volume of hakas this series is being exposed to is cheapening the exercise.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11880035

They seem to be ever increasingly a exercise in vanity and marketing than anything else. Snore.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:09 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:With both teams adopting very different playing styles my biggest fear is that this series will come down to refereeing. SH NH refs tend to be naturally biased towards their SH NH counterparts [strike]so at least there are strike] & unfortunately there are two French refs this time. ...
Wink Run
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:11 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.
Come now guns, it wasn't comprehensive. The ABs were making a late comeback and I bet you were getting a bit nervous. But the ABs got pipped at the post with a late try to Ireland. The ABs then went on to comprehensively beat Ireland in Ireland by keeping them try-less.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:13 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Also I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the volume of hakas this series is being exposed to is cheapening the exercise.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11880035

They seem to be ever increasingly a exercise in vanity and marketing than anything else. Snore.

The Lions' management requested a haka from each of the Super Rugby sides this trip to help their test preparation. I'd rather we declined - the Chiefs were the only Super Rugby side with a haka before this year, and they do it as part of title winning celebrations not pre-match. At least the Highlanders did their Scottish thing instead

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:14 am

Wonder if the Lions test team will continue the screaming like little girls at the ABs forwards in the line out and generally mincing about like pork chops? Referee should short-arm penalise them. It really is disgraceful underhanded behaviour.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:16 am

ebop wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.
Come now guns, it wasn't comprehensive. The ABs were making a late comeback and I bet you were getting a bit nervous. But the ABs got pipped at the post with a late try to Ireland. The ABs then went on to comprehensively beat Ireland in Ireland by keeping them try-less.

It was comprehensive. It was an 11 point win in a game that Ireland lead from the very start. That's comprehensive. The ABs looked very rattled at the end when Henshaw sealed it with a try.

Interesting that you think a 12 point AB win where the ABs lost the forward battle and didn't lead the whole way is comprehensive but not an 11 point Irish win. Kiwi logic.


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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:17 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Also I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the volume of hakas this series is being exposed to is cheapening the exercise.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11880035

They seem to be ever increasingly a exercise in vanity and marketing than anything else. Snore.

The Lions' management requested a haka from each of the Super Rugby sides this trip to help their test preparation. I'd rather we declined - the Chiefs were the only Super Rugby side with a haka before this year, and they do it as part of title winning celebrations not pre-match. At least the Highlanders did their Scottish thing instead


That sounds like something someone down the pub made up.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:21 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Also I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the volume of hakas this series is being exposed to is cheapening the exercise.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11880035

They seem to be ever increasingly a exercise in vanity and marketing than anything else. Snore.

The Lions' management requested a haka from each of the Super Rugby sides this trip to help their test preparation. I'd rather we declined - the Chiefs were the only Super Rugby side with a haka before this year, and they do it as part of title winning celebrations not pre-match. At least the Highlanders did their Scottish thing instead


That sounds like something someone down the pub made up.

It was reported in the NZ media a week or 2 back (with comment about the Highlanders deciding to do a different pre-match tribute instead).
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:23 am

Im sure the average Kiwi super rugby journey man was chomping at the bit to do the haka. Didnt take too much convincing.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:33 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.
Come now guns, it wasn't comprehensive. The ABs were making a late comeback and I bet you were getting a bit nervous. But the ABs got pipped at the post with a late try to Ireland. The ABs then went on to comprehensively beat Ireland in Ireland by keeping them try-less.

It was comprehensive. It was an 11 point win in a game that Ireland lead from the very start. That's comprehensive. The ABs looked very rattled at the end when Henshaw sealed it with a try.

Interesting that you think a 12 point AB win where the ABs lost the forward battle and didn't lead the whole way is comprehensive but not an 11 point Irish win. Kiwi logic.
In Chicago, at 33-29 with about 15 minutes to go with the ABs scoring tries at will you were getting a bit nervous though eh guns? When the ABs were scoring try after try in their comeback the Irish were rattled. One more try and it was game over. A couple of handling errors and a late Irish try meant yet another improbable comeback wasn't to be. Never mind OK
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:33 am

ebop wrote:Wonder if the Lions test team will continue the screaming like little girls at the ABs forwards in the line out and generally mincing about like pork chops? Referee should short-arm penalise them. It really is disgraceful underhanded behaviour.

If it annoys the players as much as you I certainly hope they continue.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:43 am

Scottrf wrote:
ebop wrote:Wonder if the Lions test team will continue the screaming like little girls at the ABs forwards in the line out and generally mincing about like pork chops? Referee should short-arm penalise them. It really is disgraceful underhanded behaviour.

If it annoys the players as much as you I certainly hope they continue.
It affects the oppositions ability to hear the lineout call

Cheap dirty behaviour
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:43 am

ebop wrote:

In Chicago, at 33-29 with about 15 minutes to go with the ABs scoring tries at will you were getting a bit nervous though eh guns? When the ABs were scoring try after try in their comeback the Irish were rattled. One more try and it was game over. A couple of handling errors and a late Irish try meant yet another improbable comeback wasn't to be. Never mind OK

A few too many ifs and buts there Ebop. Likewise in Dublin if the ABs didnt set out to injure half the Ireland team who had to go off or if they didn't kill the ball anytime Ireland got near the AB line, jada jada jada.

"Tries at will" Ben Smith's try in Chicago he was a mile in touch. it was a charity decision for the ABs. If it wasnt for a very poor TMO/ref decision it should have been an 18 point win.


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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:44 am

ebop wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
ebop wrote:Wonder if the Lions test team will continue the screaming like little girls at the ABs forwards in the line out and generally mincing about like pork chops? Referee should short-arm penalise them. It really is disgraceful underhanded behaviour.

If it annoys the players as much as you I certainly hope they continue.
It affects the oppositions ability to hear the lineout call

Cheap dirty behaviour

Richie McCaw.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by marty2086 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:48 am

ebop wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
ebop wrote:Wonder if the Lions test team will continue the screaming like little girls at the ABs forwards in the line out and generally mincing about like pork chops? Referee should short-arm penalise them. It really is disgraceful underhanded behaviour.

If it annoys the players as much as you I certainly hope they continue.
It affects the oppositions ability to hear the lineout call

Cheap dirty behaviour

Tackling players high and concussing them affects players ability to participate in the game

Cheap dirty behaviour

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:50 am

Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by marty2086 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:53 am

ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:54 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Im sure the average Kiwi super rugby journey man was chomping at the bit to do the haka. Didnt take too much convincing.

You'll be pleased to hear the Hurricanes aren't going to bother then
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:56 am

marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:56 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Im sure the average Kiwi super rugby journey man was chomping at the bit to do the haka. Didnt take too much convincing.

You'll be pleased to hear the Hurricanes aren't going to bother then
Yeah that's good news

Why bother
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:02 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Im sure the average Kiwi super rugby journey man was chomping at the bit to do the haka. Didnt take too much convincing.

You'll be pleased to hear the Hurricanes aren't going to bother then

Yes I am pleased. I tune in for the rugby albeit I think the ABs haka is a good thing as it is tradition.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:03 am

ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

He gives the tests.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by marty2086 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:19 am

ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by cascough on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:28 am

Cyril wrote:Are the Chiefs really this poor or have the Lions played well?

Good to see Nowell getting some tries. We don't want 'Penalty' to be the highest scorer on tour Wink

I'd love "Penalty" to be the top try scorer.

I suspect you were being slightly flippant Cyril so please don't think this is aimed at you, but just what do people have against good forward play?

It's an absolute integral part of the game and is what makes Rugby Union so unique. Even in the sport that is most similar, Rugby League, we do not find the contests that we do in Union. For me, the game of Rugby and Union in particular is based on the physical confrontation and coming out on top is a marvelous thing. Also the nice thing about a penalty try, is it recognizes the efforts of the entire pack, rather than just the guy who was hanging on at the back of a maul.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Winzer on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:33 am

Watched the game last night. Nowell and Williams excellent, thought Dan Cole had a great game too. It's a shame with Rory Best that he gets these lineout yips, otherwise his game is excellent and he seems such a decent guy. Feel sorry for Tips, so effective, creative, but probably isn't going to get a look-in for the Tests.
I wish Dan Biggar would play like this for Wales.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by cascough on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:50 am

ebop wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.
Come now guns, it wasn't comprehensive. The ABs were making a late comeback and I bet you were getting a bit nervous. But the ABs got pipped at the post with a late try to Ireland. The ABs then went on to comprehensively beat Ireland in Ireland by keeping them try-less.

I didn't think either of the games were comprehensive to be honest.

Both games could have perhaps gone either way. Certainly the Chicago game, when the gap was closed to 4 points my twitter feed was awash with Rugby fans, Irish and others alike, saying things like "here it comes" "it was fun while it lasted etc". Lets not forget there was plenty of contention over Barrett's try in the return game too. But that's just Rugby. Small things can seemingly have a big impact but what you hope for is if you look at the game holistically then the team on the right side of the scoreboard deserved it. And in those two games I think that was the case.

I do have a bone of contention with the "try-less" thing though. As if that somehow indicates a bigger margin of victory. Tries might have some significance in a tournament, they may even win you more admirers, but when it comes down to just two teams, and who was the better of those two teams on the day, a try is worth 5 points and that's all. Points can accrued in many ways with each single point being just as valuable as the last, regardless of how it was scored. If you don't like the way the scoring system works, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean you get to attach more significance to a particular scoring method. You could always give away less penalties? But then since teams concede penalties to stop the opposition scoring tries then your team would probably just concede more tries.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?
The tests are a bad (and dangerous) joke. If you suspect a player has concussion, and you must suspect it in order to be carrying out an HIA, then the only safe thing to do is to withdraw them. There are no tests which can guarantee to identify concussion.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

Exiledinborders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?
The tests are a bad (and dangerous) joke. If you suspect a player has concussion, and you must suspect it in order to be carrying out an HIA, then the only safe thing to do is to withdraw them. There are no tests which can guarantee to identify concussion.

Yep.

There's been a couple of cases in Super Rugby recently where a NZ coach has said "player x passed his test, but we opted to keep him off anyway just in case". I haven't seen that happening up in the NH (not saying it hasn't happened though).
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by robbo277 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

cascough wrote:
ebop wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Really pleased for Rory today, he exorcised a few demons and led the team excellently. Nice tribute from Nowell and good to read about the 'Sir' banter too. Maybe there are some vestiges of rugby tradition left in the Lions after all.
Rory is shaped like a cannonball and does well around the park but his lineout throwing is shaky. He got pinged for not throwing straight and got away with others that weren't called. Not to mention the choke against the Blues. Hope he plays in the tests.

Well he has already captained a team to a comprehensive win v the All Blacks. The only win in the last 2 years or so. Careful what you wish for.
Come now guns, it wasn't comprehensive. The ABs were making a late comeback and I bet you were getting a bit nervous. But the ABs got pipped at the post with a late try to Ireland. The ABs then went on to comprehensively beat Ireland in Ireland by keeping them try-less.

I didn't think either of the games were comprehensive to be honest.

Both games could have perhaps gone either way. Certainly the Chicago game, when the gap was closed to 4 points my twitter feed was awash with Rugby fans, Irish and others alike, saying things like "here it comes" "it was fun while it lasted etc". Lets not forget there was plenty of contention over Barrett's try in the return game too. But that's just Rugby. Small things can seemingly have a big impact but what you hope for is if you look at the game holistically then the team on the right side of the scoreboard deserved it. And in those two games I think that was the case.

I do have a bone of contention with the "try-less" thing though. As if that somehow indicates a bigger margin of victory. Tries might have some significance in a tournament, they may even win you more admirers, but when it comes down to just two teams, and who was the better of those two teams on the day, a try is worth 5 points and that's all. Points can accrued in many ways with each single point being just as valuable as the last, regardless of how it was scored. If you don't like the way the scoring system works, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't mean you get to attach more significance to a particular scoring method. You could always give away less penalties? But then since teams concede penalties to stop the opposition scoring tries then your team would probably just concede more tries.

Agree with the sentiment, but I recently was involved in a game where we lost on tries scored (5 to 4) having finished 29-29 (there was no time for extra time) - so it was hard to read that!

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by marty2086 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:21 am

Exiledinborders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?
The tests are a bad (and dangerous) joke. If you suspect a player has concussion, and you must suspect it in order to be carrying out an HIA, then the only safe thing to do is to withdraw them. There are no tests which can guarantee to identify concussion.

Except it was about him playing yesterday after being concussed last week

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

marty2086 wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?
The tests are a bad (and dangerous) joke. If you suspect a player has concussion, and you must suspect it in order to be carrying out an HIA, then the only safe thing to do is to withdraw them. There are no tests which can guarantee to identify concussion.

Except it was about him playing yesterday after being concussed last week

He also returned to the field yesterday after passing an HIA too. And IMO looked a bit groggy
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

I cant belive I haven't managed to watch 1 minute of the whole series yet. And we're at the flippin tests now already. ... Crying or Very sad

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by cascough on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

That is unfortunate Robbo. It's rather like losing on penalties.

Luckily, for the games in question here, no such rule was present.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Scottrf on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:32 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:He also returned to the field yesterday after passing an HIA too. And IMO looked a bit groggy

Could you post a picture of Lawes where he doesn't look groggy?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:36 am

Scottrf wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:He also returned to the field yesterday after passing an HIA too. And IMO looked a bit groggy

Could you post a picture of Lawes where he doesn't look groggy?
Laugh
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by ebop on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 11:42 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of concussion, was it irresponsible to play Lawes last night after a horror concussion the week before? And then he got another head knock last night. Been a bit of talk in NZ about this. Think maybe we take concussion a bit more seriously.

Especially when you guys are responsible for so many

If he cleared the medical tests why would it be irresponsible?
Ah, he passed the test Rolling Eyes

What exactly is your point?
The tests are a bad (and dangerous) joke. If you suspect a player has concussion, and you must suspect it in order to be carrying out an HIA, then the only safe thing to do is to withdraw them. There are no tests which can guarantee to identify concussion.

Except it was about him playing yesterday after being concussed last week

He also returned to the field yesterday after passing an HIA too. And IMO looked a bit groggy
marty2086, if a player sustains a second concussion before the previous one has fully resolved the impact will be more severe and can in some instances be fatal. I just thought it was irresponsible to play him this week. He's now had two head knocks and HIAs in two weeks. Just don't reckon it's a good look.

Look at 25 secs to really see the impact

It's brutal

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:09 pm

Do nz have a an automatic rime period where no player is chosen now then after a concussion or certain amount of hia s ebop?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:23 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do nz have a an automatic rime period where no player is chosen now then after a concussion or certain amount of hia s ebop?

It's based around symptoms and managing a process.

So Dane Coles didn't have a knock that was noticed, but reported headaches - so he was stood down until they stopped. After a clear week then up to light training, then heavier training, then contact training - and if any symptoms recur you go back down to the beginning.

http://nzrugby.co.nz/rugbysmart/concussion

At amateur level you're looking at an absolute minimum 20 days out http://files.allblacks.com/concussion/concussion_documentv4.pdf
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:33 pm

So from that no difference at all to here.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So from that no difference at all to here.

It may be the reporting of it but I hear a lot more about players in NZ being put through the process - could just be that there's extra transparency/awareness down under.
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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:36 pm

Right its not based around how brutal the impact looked, but the actual effects of that impact.
A medical professional has staked their career and left themsleves open to civil or even criminal prosecution by passing him fit. Hes also taken persoanl repsosbility to report his symptons and make informed decisions on hios return.
Sure its never entirely safe to come back and play after a hit to the head, but then its full stop not safe to play the game at all. In terms of risk management unless youre accussing the lions medics, coaches and the player of going against advised prasctise and exposing him to undue additional risk then its not irresponsible.
A lot of noise and hyperbole here. The Lions have a duty of care and the player himself has the ability to make decisions about his own well being, its crass to suggest that they arent making evidence based decisions to manage the risks without any evidence to the contrary



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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:37 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So from that no difference at all to here.

It may be the reporting of it but I hear a lot more about players in NZ being put through the process - could just be that there's extra transparency/awareness down under.

Did all the fuss about North pass you by?

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 1:39 pm

I simply made the point to acknowledge ebop s wum.

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Re: Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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