'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

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'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 12:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


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Last edited by Griff on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 7:41 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 4:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

We've already got Henson, it would be foolish to take on another player with that injury track record.

We haven't - but I the possibility is that he will feature in the odd squad, representative team as we are now.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 4:28 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:With Jackson being unable to return to rugby, that frees up space in the back-row and a NWQ slot right? I wonder if they're doing much about that.

Don't think there's much of a coincidence to a former Pooler boi returning to his Gwent roots recently

We've already got Henson, it would be foolish to take on another player with that injury track record.

We haven't - but I the possibility is that he will feature in the odd squad, representative team as we are now.

I hope we aren't, but if he goes well then maybe he'll be pushing the wider squad.



Either way we need recruitment, so can someone (the OP maybe?!) do an 'outs & ins' for the squad? I've kinda lost track of who's departing Smile.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 4:38 pm

Griff wrote:
PhilBB wrote:There must be some more arrivals because the loss of Kingsley jnr, Prydie, Crosswell, Jackson, Mitchell and co can't be matched just by Kirchner and Henson and Otten.

And that's before you consider the salary floor.

Any idea why we haven't hit the salary floor?  My theory was that the £x million that we get from the WRU (as do all regions) - perhaps some of that was being used to service loan debt; pay for the constant pitch work every summer; being directed somewhat into funding costs associated with Newport RFC, etc.  I struggled to make this out from the financial reports.  My hope is that with the formal separation from Newport RFC and fewer pitch costs more of the money can be spent on what its meant to be spent on.  

I struggle to believe the salary floor wasn't hit when Dragons Rugby had a "cost of sales" in its accounts of over £5m.

Total debts year on year fro Dragons Rugby went down by only £112,000 (2016 to 2015) for those falling within one year but those falling outside of one year increased by £450,000. It owned Newport RFC £1.1m.

In short, I think the idea that Dragons weren't spending to the floor was a convenient narrative that didn't stack up to scrutiny.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 4:23 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

Yeah. Not sure either would have developed with us mind

I think Dragons have a good history of developing young Welsh talent. It's holding onto that talent that's/was they're problem. Perhaps the WRU will now make sure that any good young players coming through the region now stay there, perhaps on NDC's.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

Yeah. Not sure either would have developed with us mind

I think Dragons have a good history of developing young Welsh talent. It's holding onto that talent that's/was they're problem. Perhaps the WRU will now make sure that any good young players coming through the region now stay there, perhaps on NDC's.

Andy Dowellais, you're claiming a "good history of developing young Welsh talent" for a team that hasn't had a dozen 10+ capped players pass through its academy.

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

The NDC pot is finite, of course, plus relies on one party picking up 40% of the bill.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:20 pm

PhilBB wrote:

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

Still running this are you? I'm sure if it were true then Filton would be world class by now, but the truth is they don't even have the best rugby team in just the south of England.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:24 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

Yeah. Not sure either would have developed with us mind

I think Dragons have a good history of developing young Welsh talent. It's holding onto that talent that's/was they're problem. Perhaps the WRU will now make sure that any good young players coming through the region now stay there, perhaps on NDC's.

Andy Dowellais, you're claiming a "good history of developing young Welsh talent" for a team that hasn't had a dozen 10+ capped players pass through its academy.

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

The NDC pot is finite, of course, plus relies on one party picking up 40% of the bill.

Loath as I am to weigh in on Andy's side, you can't harp on about osmosis and the benefits of playing alongside better players and then insist Faletau arrived on the test scene direct from Filton like some sort of immaculate rugby conception.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

Still running this are you? I'm sure if it were true then Filton would be world class by now, but the truth is they don't even have the best rugby team in just the south of England.

That doesn't negate the fact that he spent much of his important academy years there and not at the NGD as they didn't want him. Remember? They turned him down.

So, yes, it is true. And having Faletau go through that academy doesn't impact on others who have gone through it, unless you're suggesting that Faletau would have made it regardless of where he spent his academy years. If you want to make that point then go ahead, but that's not a positive either for the NGD. The same NGD who weren't interested him at one point.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:28 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Loath as I am to weigh in on Andy's side, you can't harp on about osmosis and the benefits of playing alongside better players and then insist Faletau arrived on the test scene direct from Filton like some sort of immaculate rugby conception.

Reverse osmosis is equally feasible. It wasn't until he was 18 that Faletau joined the NGD system.

Even if you think that's a "NGD product" it makes only one of the required 10 players to give Dowellais' claim credence.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:34 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Loath as I am to weigh in on Andy's side, you can't harp on about osmosis and the benefits of playing alongside better players and then insist Faletau arrived on the test scene direct from Filton like some sort of immaculate rugby conception.

Reverse osmosis is equally feasible. It wasn't until he was 18 that Faletau joined the NGD system.

Even if you think that's a "NGD product" it makes only one of the required 10 players to give Dowellais' claim credence.

Fair, but the criteria for selection over the past ten years has been the WOD so Wales selection is hardly an indicator of rugby ability.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 5:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

Still running this are you? I'm sure if it were true then Filton would be world class by now, but the truth is they don't even have the best rugby team in just the south of England.

That doesn't negate the fact that he spent much of his important academy years there and not at the NGD as they didn't want him. Remember? They turned him down.

So, yes, it is true. And having Faletau go through that academy doesn't impact on others who have gone through it, unless you're suggesting that Faletau would have made it regardless of where he spent his academy years. If you want to make that point then go ahead, but that's not a positive either for the NGD. The same NGD who weren't interested him at one point.

Important years yes, two years. Not sure how someone attends an average college in Bristol and then has that to thank for being a world class performer 5 years later. The professional academies are what allowed him to develop and become what he is now.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Kingshu on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 6:54 pm

Some people really seam to be down on Dragons and their new WRU owned model.

Personally I think its has more potential than watching the status quo of viewing with theItalians at the bottom of the table.

It will be a difficult one for the WRU as the other clubs will be looking for addition funds, if they invest in Dragons, the IRFU could decide to put more into Connacht and the other 3 didn't get a say in that. Connacht were being built for years before they won the Pro 12, I think people forget that it started in the Eric Elwood era with new gym, academy improvements and investment, people only see the Lam era but there was 3/4 years of ground work laid before this and Lam added to this.
I think Dragons will take the same route, with work on facilities, under age teams and in 3/4 years we will see the benefits of this.
Jackman also appears to be the man to bring them on, he's a respected coach, and appears to be there to put in the pathways he feels are needed.

have always felt Dragons are a sleeping giant, they have the potential to be bigger than Glasgow, Edinburgh, Connacht, even Scarlets. Lets hope they can.

I haven't seen the WRU do nothing wrong yet in their management of them, albeit that its early days, but here hoping for a better future for the Dragons

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 7:12 pm

Kingshu wrote:Some people really seam to be down on Dragons and their new WRU owned model.

Personally I think its has more potential than watching the status quo of viewing with theItalians at the bottom of the table.

It will be a difficult one for the WRU as the other clubs will be looking for addition funds, if they invest in Dragons, the IRFU could decide to put more into Connacht and the other 3 didn't get a say in that. Connacht were being built for years before they won the Pro 12, I think people forget that it started in the Eric Elwood era with new gym, academy improvements and investment, people only see the Lam era but there was 3/4 years of ground work laid before this and Lam added to this.
I think Dragons will take the same route, with work on facilities, under age teams and in 3/4 years we will see the benefits of this.
Jackman also appears to be the man to bring them on, he's a respected coach, and appears to be there to put in the pathways he feels are needed.

have always felt Dragons are a sleeping giant, they have the potential to be bigger than Glasgow, Edinburgh, Connacht, even Scarlets. Lets hope they can.

I haven't seen the WRU do nothing wrong yet in their management of them, albeit that its early days, but here hoping for a better future for the Dragons

Nothing wrong?
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 8:32 pm

Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

In a new clubhouse, integral to a new north stand, possibly?


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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 8:39 pm

[quote="Cardiff Dave"]
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

In a new clubhouse, integral to a new north stand, possibly?  

That would be an option. Have you heard something Dave? I was never a fan of the clubhouse and Rodney Hall. Like a warehouse full of p*ss heads! Just had/has that old workingmens club feel about it. Not my cup of tea I suppose, but fine for a pint or two.


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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by RiscaGame on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 9:21 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Loath as I am to weigh in on Andy's side, you can't harp on about osmosis and the benefits of playing alongside better players and then insist Faletau arrived on the test scene direct from Filton like some sort of immaculate rugby conception.

Reverse osmosis is equally feasible. It wasn't until he was 18 that Faletau joined the NGD system.

Even if you think that's a "NGD product" it makes only one of the required 10 players to give Dowellais' claim credence.

Fair, but the criteria for selection over the past ten years has been the WOD so Wales selection is hardly an indicator of rugby ability.

Agree.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by RiscaGame on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 9:23 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

In a new clubhouse, integral to a new north stand, possibly?  

The only

That would be an option. Have you heard something Dave? I was never a fan of the clubhouse and Rodney Hall. Like a warehouse full of p*ss heads! Just had/has that old workingmens club feel about it. Not my cup of tea I suppose, but fine for a pint or two.


I've only really liked the clubhouse for the faggots and chips or the curry. The beer is rubbish on the whole and it is rather like a morgue in there.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 7:27 am

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

In a new clubhouse, integral to a new north stand, possibly?  

That would be an option. Have you heard something Dave? I was never a fan of the clubhouse and Rodney Hall. Like a warehouse full of p*ss heads! Just had/has that old workingmens club feel about it. Not my cup of tea I suppose, but fine for a pint or two.


Aint heard nowt. Just wondering out loud. Be great to have a new north terrace with hospitality above maybe and a clubhouse etc behind.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 7:34 am

RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Sorry but that makes no sense what so ever.

The WRU OWN the Dragons, they are investing money into it. Their obligations are now greater than any agreement between them and the regions.

The only issue here seems to be you are against Unions running clubs

They are investing money into the pitch.  But not putting more money in than the normal funding for player release, TV money, competition money, etc. that we all get.  At the same time they've already put the club house and surrounding land up for sale, or so I've read, so should stand to make a lot of money there.  Probably to cover the cost of the pitch.  Not sure where we'll meet for a drink before the games now?

In a new clubhouse, integral to a new north stand, possibly?  

The only

That would be an option. Have you heard something Dave? I was never a fan of the clubhouse and Rodney Hall. Like a warehouse full of p*ss heads! Just had/has that old workingmens club feel about it. Not my cup of tea I suppose, but fine for a pint or two.


I've only really liked the clubhouse for the faggots and chips or the curry. The beer is rubbish on the whole and it is rather like a morgue in there.

Get the cheerleaders in to liven the place up. Have themed matchdays. An Hawaiian luau every so often why not.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 8:44 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Important years yes, two years. Not sure how someone attends an average college in Bristol and then has that to thank for being a world class performer 5 years later. The professional academies are what allowed him to develop and become what he is now.

You what? The Academy years were at Filton, he joined NGD as an adult. He was soon too good for Cross Keys and the Premiership, so was playing first team rugby.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 8:45 am

Kingshu wrote:Some people really seam to be down on Dragons and their new WRU owned model.

Personally I think its has more potential than watching the status quo of viewing with theItalians at the bottom of the table.

It will be a difficult one for the WRU as the other clubs will be looking for addition funds, if they invest in Dragons, the IRFU could decide to put more into Connacht and the other 3 didn't get a say in that. Connacht were being built for years before they won the Pro 12, I think people forget that it started in the Eric Elwood era with new gym, academy improvements and investment, people only see the Lam era but there was 3/4 years of ground work laid before this and Lam added to this.
I think Dragons will take the same route, with work on facilities, under age teams and in 3/4 years we will see the benefits of this.
Jackman also appears to be the man to bring them on, he's a respected coach, and appears to be there to put in the pathways he feels are needed.

have always felt Dragons are a sleeping giant, they have the potential to be bigger than Glasgow, Edinburgh, Connacht, even Scarlets. Lets hope they can.

I haven't seen the WRU do nothing wrong yet in their management of them, albeit that its early days, but here hoping for a better future for the Dragons

The model isn't the same in Wales as it is in Ireland so if the IRFU decides to unequally fund its teams (which it has done for years in order to skew the market) there is nothing the other three can do. In Wales, there is plenty the other three can do as they are independent companies.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 8:46 am

Stone Motif wrote:
Fair, but the criteria for selection over the past ten years has been the WOD so Wales selection is hardly an indicator of rugby ability.

So which young NGD academy products have been cruelly and wrongly over looked?
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 10:11 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Morgan Allen?

It's still a shame Jack Condy slipped through the net.

Yeah. Not sure either would have developed with us mind

I think Dragons have a good history of developing young Welsh talent. It's holding onto that talent that's/was they're problem. Perhaps the WRU will now make sure that any good young players coming through the region now stay there, perhaps on NDC's.

Andy Dowellais, you're claiming a "good history of developing young Welsh talent" for a team that hasn't had a dozen 10+ capped players pass through its academy.

Even Faletau had to be developed in Filton.

The NDC pot is finite, of course, plus relies on one party picking up 40% of the bill.

But they have been good at it. they might not have all been superstars, but they have brought through Welsh talent at all ages. They have even got a history of bring late bloomers through, Lloyd Burns and Andrew Combs spring to mind. Off the top of my head, decent Pro12 level players and potential internationals that they have nurtured lately:-

Jason Tovey
Johnny Evans
Ashton Hewitt
Aled Brew ?
Tyler Morgan
Jack Dixon
Lewis Evans
Talupe Faletau
Dan Lydiate
Luke Charteris ?

There might be a few more, I just cannot be bothered to go looking. No doubt you will find some excuse for rubbishing the claims to these players, but like it or not, none of the capped players in that list were capped until they played for Dragons. I just hope the WRU now give them the ammo to keep hold of any capped players.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 1:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Fair, but the criteria for selection over the past ten years has been the WOD so Wales selection is hardly an indicator of rugby ability.

So which young NGD academy products have been cruelly and wrongly over looked?

That's an argument neither of us can win as we don't know what these guys can bench and deadlift. Which we both agree has been the main selection criteria for Gatland.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 1:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
But they have been good at it. they might not have all been superstars, but they have brought through Welsh talent at all ages. They have even got a history of bring late bloomers through, Lloyd Burns and Andrew Combs spring to mind. Off the top of my head, decent Pro12 level players and potential internationals that they have nurtured lately:-

Jason Tovey
Johnny Evans
Ashton Hewitt
Aled Brew ?
Tyler Morgan
Jack Dixon
Lewis Evans
Talupe Faletau
Dan Lydiate
Luke Charteris ?

There might be a few more, I just cannot be bothered to go looking. No doubt you will find some excuse for rubbishing the claims to these players, but like it or not, none of the capped players in that list were capped until they played for Dragons. I just hope the WRU now give them the ammo to keep hold of any capped players.

Ok, if you consider the NGD "good" because of that list, what adjectives would you use for the other three?
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 1:42 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Fair, but the criteria for selection over the past ten years has been the WOD so Wales selection is hardly an indicator of rugby ability.

So which young NGD academy products have been cruelly and wrongly over looked?

That's an argument neither of us can win as we don't know what these guys can bench and deadlift. Which we both agree has been the main selection criteria for Gatland.

There's a little bit of rugby guile needed on top of that, but I'm struggling to see which NGD academy products have been overlooked for inferior players.

I'm guessing everybody else is also struggling, judging by nobody producing a list.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:24 pm

Elliot Dee (Scott Baldwin)?
Lewis Evans (James King)?
Jonathan Evans (Tavis Knoyle)?

But no one but Lord D (bizarrely) is arguing our academy hasn't been good enough. You say name me the players overlooked, I say any of them because you don't know what an alternative coach might have been looking for. Plus if they could all bench 5% more they may equally all have been selected, regardless of rugby ability.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:42 pm

You'd think Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will be pushing for Wales selection eventually, once they've established themselves. They've trained with the national squad already, so they're on the radar so to speak. As is Elliot Dee, who deserves an injury-free season to show what he can do.

It'll be interesting to see who is named captain for the coming season. Lewis Evans is a wholehearted player but he's never set the world alight.* If they were bold, they would name Ollie Griffiths as captain and build the team around him. He has experience of captaincy, albeit not at PRO12 level.



* - Please tell me they haven't already announced Lewis Evans as captain....

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by GavinDragon on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:47 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You'd think Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will be pushing for Wales selection eventually, once they've established themselves. They've trained with the national squad already, so they're on the radar so to speak. As is Elliot Dee, who deserves an injury-free season to show what he can do.

It'll be interesting to see who is named captain for the coming season. Lewis Evans is a wholehearted player but he's never set the world alight.* If they were bold, they would name Ollie Griffiths as captain and build the team around him. He has experience of captaincy, albeit not at PRO12 level.



* - Please tell me they haven't already announced Lewis Evans as captain....

This for me.

Assuming we are not going to make any further signings, my starting team would be something like this:-

1. Price
2. Dee
3. Harris
4. Hill
5. Landman
6. Evans
7. Ollie Griffith (Capt)
8. Keddie

9. Pretoius
10. O'Brien
11. Amos
12. Henson
13. Beard
14. Hewitt
15. Kirchner

16. Buckley
17. Hobbs
18. Brown
19. Screech
20. Blake
21. Davies
22. Robson
23. Meyer

We still have a threadbare squad which means we will be in the Poopie when injuries come in, but in the wider squad we still have:-

Jack Dixon
Nic Cudd
Paddy Howard
Adam Hughes
Adam Warren
Tyler Morgan

All steady pro's.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 8:44 am

GavinDragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You'd think Leon Brown and Harrison Keddie will be pushing for Wales selection eventually, once they've established themselves. They've trained with the national squad already, so they're on the radar so to speak. As is Elliot Dee, who deserves an injury-free season to show what he can do.

It'll be interesting to see who is named captain for the coming season. Lewis Evans is a wholehearted player but he's never set the world alight.* If they were bold, they would name Ollie Griffiths as captain and build the team around him. He has experience of captaincy, albeit not at PRO12 level.



* - Please tell me they haven't already announced Lewis Evans as captain....

This for me.

Assuming we are not going to make any further signings, my starting team would be something like this:-

1. Price
2. Dee
3. Harris
4. Hill
5. Landman
6. Evans
7. Ollie Griffith (Capt)
8. Keddie

9. Pretoius
10. O'Brien
11. Amos
12. Henson
13. Beard
14. Hewitt
15. Kirchner

16. Buckley
17. Hobbs
18. Brown
19. Screech
20. Blake
21. Davies
22. Robson
23. Meyer

We still have a threadbare squad which means we will be in the Poopie when injuries come in, but in the wider squad we still have:-

Jack Dixon
Nic Cudd
Paddy Howard
Adam Hughes
Adam Warren
Tyler Morgan

All steady pro's.

It's an extraordinarily week front five isn't it? Which gets worse very quick with even a single injury. WRU need some bodies there and quick and I don't mean Frak Suter from the other true region.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 10:00 am

Pinch, punch etc., D-day today isn't it? Anything planned to mark the occasion?

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by GavinDragon on Sat 01 Jul 2017, 6:07 pm

Don't be silly. The marketing department don't work outside 9-5 Monday to Friday!

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 02 Jul 2017, 9:35 am

GavinDragon wrote:Don't be silly. The marketing department don't work outside 9-5 Monday to Friday!

Drags have a marketing dept?
BTW, did you lot help with clearing out Newport RFC memorabilia?

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Mon 03 Jul 2017, 4:32 pm

^ Ouch ^
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 10:34 am

Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:29 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445


Still think they should have kept 'Gwent' in the title. They've gone and disenfranchised the whole of the region now! Whistle

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:33 am

Any news on transfers then, coming and going?

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:35 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Any news on transfers then, coming and going?

None from me, but I'll add it to the OP as suggested the other day. Just forgot!

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:35 am

Griff wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Any news on transfers then, coming and going?

None from me, but I'll add it to the OP as suggested the other day.  Just forgot!

Ta. It's a bit concerning on the transfer front. Our thin squad seems to be getting thinner.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:54 am

I've checked our squad list and it has a few young No.9's that I'm unfamiliar with. I'm willing to be they're twice the player Knoyle is though, can't believe we haven't offloaded that waste of space.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:57 am

OP updated a little.

Out of interest, I found this link on Wiki to 17/18 Pro 12 transfers, by club.  Just have a look at the difference in transfer activity levels of our Pro12 rivals compared to us!  Actually, very little activity in Wales but a lot of other teams in the other 3 nations having some big refreshes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2017%E2%80%9318_Pro12_transfers

EDIT: Actually, a lot of the transfers in for the Scottish and Irish teams are promotions from the academy. I'm sure we'll have them too in Wales, but are just not listed.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 10:49 am

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445


Still think they should have kept 'Gwent' in the title.  They've gone and disenfranchised the whole of the region now!  Whistle

The press release setting out the strategic rationale for change mentions Gwent 5 times, having removed its name.

If that doesn't tell you the level of shambles involved, maybe this will:

"Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." <--- from the Dragons. But don't call them Gwent, oh no.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by RiscaGame on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:04 pm

I noticed a Dragons supporter on FB the other day think he spotted Martyn Thomas training with us. Also, some have spotted Suter of Ospreys.

I can't see Thomas getting picked up from Merthyr, but you never know.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:08 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I noticed a Dragons supporter on FB the other day think he spotted Martyn Thomas training with us. Also, some have spotted Suter of Ospreys.

I can't see Thomas getting picked up from Merthyr, but you never know.

If true then....
picard

Some things on the recruitment front don't change.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:19 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445


Still think they should have kept 'Gwent' in the title.  They've gone and disenfranchised the whole of the region now!  Whistle

The press release setting out the strategic rationale for change mentions Gwent 5 times, having removed its name.

If that doesn't tell you the level of shambles involved, maybe this will:

"Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." <--- from the Dragons. But don't call them Gwent, oh no.


You just know there will be some fans out there saying "I'm not supporting a team without Gwent in the title. It doesn't represent anything and therefore doesn't represent me! I'll not step foot in Rodney Parade until they put Gwent back in the title". And on we roll...

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:43 pm

Yep.

But remember that Phillips went big on the "representing 74 clubs of Gwent" rhetoric in all of this.

What a pile of nonsense that is.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 8:37 am

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445


Still think they should have kept 'Gwent' in the title.  They've gone and disenfranchised the whole of the region now!  Whistle

Unfortunate euphemism though.

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 1:40 pm

Griff wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Do the shake and vac.....

"The Dragons website, social media channels and email addresses have all changed this week to reflect the recent re-fresh of the brand and renaming to Dragons."
http://www.dragonsrugby.wales/News/Article/49445


Still think they should have kept 'Gwent' in the title.  They've gone and disenfranchised the whole of the region now!  Whistle

The press release setting out the strategic rationale for change mentions Gwent 5 times, having removed its name.

If that doesn't tell you the level of shambles involved, maybe this will:

"Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." <--- from the Dragons. But don't call them Gwent, oh no.


You just know there will be some fans out there saying "I'm not supporting a team without Gwent in the title.  It doesn't represent anything and therefore doesn't represent me!  I'll not step foot in Rodney Parade until they put Gwent back in the title".  And on we roll...

"Gwent-centric" says the Jack man...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-reveals-revolutionary-three-year-13213635

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by PhilBB on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 4:04 pm

So the WRU claim ""Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." and then give the £750k pitch contract to a firm from Leicester.
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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

Post by Griff on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 5:24 pm

PhilBB wrote:So the WRU claim ""Our ambition is to sell Gwent produced products and engage with Gwent-based service providers." and then give the £750k pitch contract to a firm from Leicester.

Yeah, my two mates who are gardeners should have got the gig.

Seriously though, it's specialist stuff. Is there a Gwent based 4g pitch company?

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Re: 'Dragons from Gwent' Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

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