NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:35 pm

                   
NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
24 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on [Sky Sports HD]

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

38 Played 38
29 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 29
634 Points 345

B. Recent Form

9 July 2005
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 19 to New Zealand

2 July 2005
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 13 to New Zealand

26 June 1993
Athletic Park, Wellington
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983
Carisbrook, Dunedin
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND

01. Joe Moody (25)
02. Codie Taylor (16)
03. Owen Franks (91)
04. Brodie Retallick (61)
05. Samuel Whitelock (85)
06. Jerome Kaino (78)
07. Sam Cane (41)
08. Kieran Read (97)

09. Aaron Smith (59)
10. Beauden Barrett (50)
11. Rieko Ioane (2)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (34)
13. Ryan Crotty (26)
14. Israel Dagg (62)
15. Ben Smith (61)

16. Nathan Harris (5)
17. Wyatt Crockett (59)
18. Charlie Faumuina (47)
19. Scott Barrett (5)
20. Ardie Savea (13)
21. TJ Perenara (30)
22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  

15. Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #833
14. Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816
13. Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12. Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11. Elliot Daly – Wasps, England, #822
10. Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
09. Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

01. Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
02. Jamie George – Saracens, England, #819
03. Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #818
04. Alun Wyn Jones – Ospreys, Wales, #761
05. George Kruis – Saracens, England, #817
06. Peter O’Mahony (capt) – Munster, Ireland, #832
07. Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
08. Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

16. Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17. Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18. Kyle Sinckler – Harlequins, England, #814
19. Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20. Sam Warburton – Cardiff Blues, Wales, #800
21. Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22. Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23. Leigh Halfpenny – Toulon, Wales, #775


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:46 pm

What are the odds on a record score in favour of the ABs?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Scottrf on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 pm

These NZ guys any good? They haven't beaten the Lions for 12 years.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:45 pm

The Lions haven't beaten them in twice that so therefore a draw must be on the cards. ☺

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by George Carlin on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Scottrf wrote:These NZ guys any good? They haven't beaten the Lions for 12 years.
Overrated and prone to food poisoning at crucial moments.

Run Run Run Run
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by robbo277 on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:08 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:What are the odds on a record score in favour of the ABs?

SkyBet give the ABs an 11 point lead. NZ (-29) (longest they had - potentially eclipsing the 38-6 game in 1983) is at 11/2.

Lions (-7) is the longest start the Lions can give, and is again at 11/2.

The Lions are 7/2 outright and 500/1 to win to nil. Lions/NZ half-time/full-time looks a bit appealing at 6/1, as does Lions to win the race to 10 points at 9/4. I think the Lions will start brightly then fade as NZ start working them out a bit.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by ebop on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:14 am

George Carlin wrote:
Scottrf wrote:These NZ guys any good? They haven't beaten the Lions for 12 years.
Overrated and prone to food poisoning at crucial moments.

Run Run Run Run
Just the once vomit

We are totally overrated as we've just had some good fortune over the years

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by George Carlin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:07 am

ebop wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Scottrf wrote:These NZ guys any good? They haven't beaten the Lions for 12 years.
Overrated and prone to food poisoning at crucial moments.

Run Run Run Run
We are totally overrated as we've just had some good fortune over the years

Whistle
That's the least Welsh statement I've ever read.
Run
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:13 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:What are the odds on a record score in favour of the ABs?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:22 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40338480

If North starts he'll just be expected to defend with the form he's in. I would select either Williams, Daly or Seymour ahead of him.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Scottrf on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:43 am

mikey_dragon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40338480

If North starts he'll just be expected to defend with the form he's in. I would select either Williams, Daly or Seymour ahead of him.

Is he too Welsh for your liking? Typical anti-Welsh bias.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by LondonTiger on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:21 am

So Lions squad named today? (or tomorrow?)

Looking at the 3 "broadsheets" it would seem that the decisions they are making are:

1) AWJ or Itoje to start (other on bench)
2) North or Daly on the wing
3) JJ or Daly on bench
4) Warbs to start or to bench.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:42 am

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40338480

If North starts he'll just be expected to defend with the form he's in. I would select either Williams, Daly or Seymour ahead of him.

Is he too Welsh for your liking? Typical anti-Welsh bias.

Something like that. 2nd row is AWJ plus another, easiest choice ever.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:43 am

North has been awful so far (but not surprising as he has been for some time.) if selected then the players fighting for that position will know there and then that its not what you do but who you know that counts, the cracks will emerge and the Tour will fall apart.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by BamBam on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:45 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40338480

If North starts he'll just be expected to defend with the form he's in. I would select either Williams, Daly or Seymour ahead of him.

Is he too Welsh for your liking? Typical anti-Welsh bias.

Something like that. 2nd row is AWJ plus another, easiest choice ever.

Agreed, we're going to lose anyway so adding a past it (never had it) donkey to the pack won't really be too damaging

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:00 am

BamBam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40338480

If North starts he'll just be expected to defend with the form he's in. I would select either Williams, Daly or Seymour ahead of him.

Is he too Welsh for your liking? Typical anti-Welsh bias.

Something like that. 2nd row is AWJ plus another, easiest choice ever.

Agreed, we're going to lose anyway so adding a past it (never had it) donkey to the pack won't really be too damaging

Thinking of pairing him with Lawes are you? In all fairness to Lawes he's not as overhyped as Launchbury. Nor does he buy MOTM performances.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:03 am

I thought you were an advocate for unity Mikey?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:11 am

Kruis and Itoje have to start together with George as No2. Nice unit that works well together why break that up to accommodate AWJ?
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:14 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I thought you were an advocate for unity Mikey?

That I am. Is there anything that's lead you to believe that I'm not? I try to lead by example but the English don't listen, they just carry on bad-mouthing most things Welsh Rolling Eyes

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:16 am

TightHEAD wrote:Kruis and Itoje have to start together with George as No2. Nice unit that works well together why break that up to accommodate AWJ?

Actually I now find myself agreeing with this. So most people think George is the front-runner and not Owens? And Mako at LH who's scrummed above expectations. I also think Marler is performing better than McGrath at the moment.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by beshocked on Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:16 am

Does Gatland have the balls to bench Warburton and AWJ?

Personally I'd not have either in the 23 - Stander and Lawes would be my bench options.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sir-clive-woodward-picks-lions-13202165

Complete madness but I pretty much agree with Clive.

I'd pick the same pack and would leave out North.

Don't think it really matters out of Sexton or Farrell who starts at 10. Depends who Gatland wants to start at 9. I'd put Webb with Farrell and Murray with Sexton.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by ebop on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:53 pm

All Blacks team to play the Lions at Eden Park on Saturday (caps in brackets):

1. Joe Moody (25)
2. Codie Taylor (16)
3. Owen Franks (91)
4. Brodie Retallick (61)
5. Samuel Whitelock (85)
6. Jerome Kaino (78)
7. Sam Cane (41)
8. Kieran Read (97)
9. Aaron Smith (59)
10. Beauden Barrett (50)
11. Rieko Ioane (2)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (34)
13. Ryan Crotty (26)
14. Israel Dagg (62)
15. Ben Smith (61)

Reserves:
16. Nathan Harris (5)
17. Wyatt Crockett (59)
18. Charlie Faumuina (47)
19. Scott Barrett (5)
20. Ardie Savea (13)
21. TJ Perenara (30)
22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:02 pm

British & Irish Lions (v New Zealand, 1st Test, Saturday, June 24, 7.35pm NZST, 8.35am BST)
15. Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #833
14. Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816
13. Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12. Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11. Elliot Daly – Wasps, England, #822
10. Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
9. Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

1. Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
2. Jamie George – Saracens, England, #819
3. Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #818
4. Alun Wyn Jones – Ospreys, Wales, #761
5. George Kruis – Saracens, England, #817
6. Peter O’Mahony (capt) – Munster, Ireland, #832
7. Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
8. Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

Replacements
16. Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17. Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18. Kyle Sinckler – Harlequins, England, #814
19. Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20. Sam Warburton – Cardiff Blues, Wales, #800
21. Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22. Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23. Leigh Halfpenny – Toulon, Wales, #775

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:04 pm

Hope AWJ finds his form quickly because he's certainly not been in the top 3 locks this tour. Big calls in the back 3!

Worried about the bench though - Warbuton and 1/2P are hardly impact subs.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:05 pm

AWJ instead of Lawes or Itoje...

Liam Williams is also very lucky. I'd have had Nowell on the Wing and Watson at full back.

Oh and I was already cynically resolved to have 0 representatives in the test team.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:06 pm

Well well. No Joseph at all. No Itoje starting. A guy starting at 15 who is not considered as a 15 at least! Hopefully jones doesn't cost us too much before being replaced.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:09 pm

A few surprises there. Well done AWJ, well deserved mate.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:10 pm

How is it deserved mikey? I'm assuming previous experience?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Surprising that Halfpenny isn't at fullback. Can't see how people can advocate Watson there at this point though, he should have had match time in that position against the Maori to further enhance his credentials. We've seen Liam play there many times and it's his best position.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hope AWJ finds his form quickly because he's certainly not been in the top 3 locks this tour. Big calls in the back 3!

Worried about the bench though - Warbuton and 1/2P are hardly impact subs.

I assume if there is an injury in the backs 1/2p comes in at 15 and Williams + Daly shift elsewhere to accomodate. I guess its also insurance if Farrell's kicking is an issue with the leg injury.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:13 pm

It's hard to imagine that scotland are ranked to highly yet the head coach rates his skill so lowly to be able to get the best our of them.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:14 pm

AWJ ??????????
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:14 pm

Can't answer the question mikey?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by TightHEAD on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:17 pm

So glad North wasn't picked though, simply hasn't turned up
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by BamBam on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:17 pm

Someone find Itoje a Welsh granny, it's the only way he's getting picked ahead of a past it has been who has loads of pashun and ekshperiensh

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by westisbest on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:18 pm

Would have liked to see Sexton start, Irish bias I suppose.
Yeah few surprises.

Delighted for O'Mahony captaining on Saturday.
Thought Itojie would get the nod.

Was expecting Halfpenny at 15.

Hopefully be a cracking game Saturday and we go 1 up.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Poorfour on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

O'Mahony deserves that and is the right pick. Good luck to him. Delighted for Sinckler, too. The closest thing we have to a Lions bolter in the fully professional era.

Some bold choices in the back 3, and really not sure about AWJ. His form just doesn't merit it for me. On the other hand, it's a strong bench.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

AWJ over Itoje is a joke
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by R!skysports on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Awj???

I suppose the plan hatched at the start of the 6nations worked


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Steffan on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:28 pm

Great that AJW is in the side. Would have been a disgrace if he hadn't. How you can not pick a man of that class and experience is beyond me. He should be captain also. Should be a few more Welsh in the team in my opinion but will cheer on the Lions anyway

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:30 pm

I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:35 pm

Arguably best team we could put out, can see why AWJ would be there for leadership in the first test, but I can't remember him having a good run of form in the last 12 months and all other locks shown better form.

Would have gone with Stander over Warburton from the bench, guess you can't not have your tour captain in the match day 23.

Power in midfield, great attackers in back three. Game on as think we can smash them in the back row.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:36 pm

Itoje should be there instead of AWJ

Warburton and Halfpenny should either start or be dropped altogether.
Fine players but not impact subs

Stander and Joseph offer so much more from the bench

Delighted for POM and also delighted he has gone for Daly over North, who has yet to turn up on this tour

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Steffan wrote:Great that AJW is in the side. Would have been a disgrace if he hadn't. How you can not pick a man of that class and experience is beyond me. He should be captain also. Should be a few more Welsh in the team in my opinion but will cheer on the Lions anyway

Because the guy on the bench once outjumped him in a lineout even though he had lifters and Itoje didn't.

It's not that AWJ is a bad player. Anything but. And he's been the beating heart of the Welsh pack for a long time. But that does not mean that there are not better options.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:40 pm

Griff wrote:I think generally the team has been picked on form. Apart from AWJ. AWJ?! WTF!

He could have picked Halfpenny, but didn't. People were calling for an attacking fullback.
People were adamant he'd go for North, but he didn't.
People were adamant that he'd go for Warbs as he was captain, but has bravely dropped him.
People were calling for POM as captain but assumed it would be Warbs or AWJ. It's neither.

Overall I'm quite happy with the team. Could have been a lot worse, a lot more 'Gatland'. But again AWJ?! WTF!l He's the glaring one. If he wasn't there I think most would be happy give or take.
AWJ is the glaring error. The other thing that is a bit odd is that in some cases the 'finishers' are the solid but dull ones rather than impact players. I could understand picking 1/2p for his solidity but for me he either starts or is dropped entirely. Same goes for Warburton.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by lostinwales on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:41 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Itoje should be there instead of AWJ

Warburton and Halfpenny should either start or be dropped altogether.
Fine players but not impact subs

Stander and Joseph offer so much more from the bench

Delighted for POM and also delighted he has gone for Daly over North, who has yet to turn up on this tour

yeah - I would have thought Stander is the very definition of impact. Joseph is a dangerous player too, although in a very different way.

For us in England we have got very used to the bench being an attacking weapon. I don't think Gatland buys into that idea yet.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Steffan wrote:Great that AJW is in the side. Would have been a disgrace if he hadn't. How you can not pick a man of that class and experience is beyond me. He should be captain also. Should be a few more Welsh in the team in my opinion but will cheer on the Lions anyway

Well said.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by SamTheQuin on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:44 pm

Joseph only covers one position from bench though and that is his problem. If any back three player got crocked then its a problem, at least Halfpenny can cover wings and fb.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:45 pm

Don't want to answer then mikey. I understand why you wouldn't to be fair.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

Post by Exiledinborders on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:49 pm

Steffan wrote:Great that AJW is in the side. Would have been a disgrace if he hadn't. How you can not pick a man of that class and experience is beyond me.
Nobody doubts that AWJ has been a great player or that he has great experience. However, he is no longer one of the best half dozen locks in the Lions countries. Based on your logic Martin Johnson cannot be left out.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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