NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June

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Post by George Carlin on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
24 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on [Sky Sports HD]

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

38 Played 38
29 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 29
634 Points 345

B. Recent Form

9 July 2005
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 19 to New Zealand

2 July 2005
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 13 to New Zealand

26 June 1993
Athletic Park, Wellington
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983
Eden Park, Auckland
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983
Carisbrook, Dunedin
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983
Lancaster Park, Christchurch
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND
 NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June - Page 9 Kirean10
01. Joe Moody (25)
02. Codie Taylor (16)
03. Owen Franks (91)
04. Brodie Retallick (61)
05. Samuel Whitelock (85)
06. Jerome Kaino (78)
07. Sam Cane (41)
08. Kieran Read (97)

09. Aaron Smith (59)
10. Beauden Barrett (50)
11. Rieko Ioane (2)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (34)
13. Ryan Crotty (26)
14. Israel Dagg (62)
15. Ben Smith (61)

16. Nathan Harris (5)
17. Wyatt Crockett (59)
18. Charlie Faumuina (47)
19. Scott Barrett (5)
20. Ardie Savea (13)
21. TJ Perenara (30)
22. Aaron Cruden (47) / Lima Sopoaga (7)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (10)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
 NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 24 June - Page 9 Pom10
15. Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #833
14. Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816
13. Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12. Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11. Elliot Daly – Wasps, England, #822
10. Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
09. Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

01. Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
02. Jamie George – Saracens, England, #819
03. Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #818
04. Alun Wyn Jones – Ospreys, Wales, #761
05. George Kruis – Saracens, England, #817
06. Peter O’Mahony (capt) – Munster, Ireland, #832
07. Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
08. Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

16. Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17. Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18. Kyle Sinckler – Harlequins, England, #814
19. Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20. Sam Warburton – Cardiff Blues, Wales, #800
21. Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22. Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23. Leigh Halfpenny – Toulon, Wales, #775


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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:36 am

Farrell has many qualities but he can't get a backline playing the way Gatland today, not taking Ford or Russell is a big big error.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

mikey_dragon wrote:That's the impact Webb can have. That score is so important going into next week. ABs much better today but I don't think the Lions played as well as they could have. Too much napping and too static.

Credit to Webb for darting through but the ABs had switched off there. Not surprising... they played with incredible energy and intensity right from the start which caught the Lions out and kept them under pressure for the most part. Very hard to stop such an onslaught.

Hope Gatland doesn't make too many changes for next week. I think he made a brave move with the changes but those form players were also essentially a new combination... it must be very hard to click against that NZ side who despite losing Ben Smith and Crotty early on still had what it takes.
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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Farrell has many qualities but he can't get a backline playing the way Gatland today, not taking Ford or Russell is a big big error.

Ford is a good player but against the ABs is too lightweight

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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:40 am

If we agree we need a more physical pack, I'm not sure Itoje and Kris provides that. I honestly think Lawes is more physical than both, despite looking like a drainpipe. What about Stander, he looks like one of the few players capable of getting over the gain line, I'd absolutely start him ahead of TF.

I have absolutely no idea how we approach the breakdown next week because they are so far ahead of us there it's night and day.

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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

Ioane's last try was a bit of a worrying indication of another area we'll struggle in. We just don't produce players that big AND fast. Who do we have quicker than Daly?!

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:44 am

Well played Great Britain and Ireland your boys really fronted up and put our guys under defensive pressure, and when the ABs didnt front up the Lions scored their best try of the tour.

 I hope our boys can get into their work early on Monday morning as we need to see more complete game time rather than players disappearing a few minutes after half time, well done kieren Read for that performance being his first top level game in nearly two months.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Farrell has many qualities but he can't get a backline playing the way Gatland today, not taking Ford or Russell is a big big error.

Ford is a good player but against the ABs is too lightweight

Russell is not though. He's a pretty solid defender and is in the camp. Give the lad a shot.
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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

For me Best needs to come in at hooker for the scrum, its an area the Lions can take the ABs apart in and he's the best scrummager the Lions have at hooker, Sincklair too at 3 has to be considered.

AWJ has to drop out all together for Itoje and Henderson

Faletau needs a rocket he was anonymous for too long in the game, POM wasn't great but maybe squeaks through

The backline looked dangerous but need the platform and need to be told to hit rucks at times


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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Farrell has many qualities but he can't get a backline playing the way Gatland today, not taking Ford or Russell is a big big error.

Ford is a good player but against the ABs is too lightweight

Russell is not though. He's a pretty solid defender and is in the camp. Give the lad a shot.

He's prone to getting shook up though

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

Considering the recent success England and Scotland have had I don't think Ford and Russell being small negates their attacking brilliance.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

well we knew it wasnt going to be easy. said i would have started cj at 6 for his physicality. and certainly would have lawes as a bench option. need to cut out stupid mistakes and lower pen count. we wasted too many opportunity's and gave easy points away. good game though and all blacks were well worth the win.

thought the bench was poor today, made no difference really probably went poorer. itoje and webb the only ones to do anything positive

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

There was a lot of positives to take out of that game, but so disappointed how we dropped off in the 2nd half.

For me taking Teo off was a mistake, the tackle he made and was given as a knock on was the turning point for me as we had a run In yet the Ref blew up.

Williams and JD2 were superb but our forwards have to be more physical, Marler and Lawes have to come in and play on the edge of legality. Time to get Nasty Lions.


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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:Well played Great Britain and Ireland your boys really fronted up and put our guys under defensive pressure, and when the ABs didnt front up the Lions scored their best try of the tour.

 I hope our boys can get into their work early on Monday morning as we need to see more complete game time rather than players disappearing a few minutes after half time, well done kieren Read for that performance being his first top level game in nearly two months.

You mean *gulp* that's not your best?! Well done to your lot, significantly better in all facets. I'd love to hear from an AB fan how they think the ABs can be beaten, because I sure as hell can't think of it! I love watching the ABs but i do worry that if the rest of us can't start beating you a little more regularly, it could get a little stale....for us at least.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:49 am

Jamie George was the only forward to win a breakdown turnover.

Not a single turnover specialist in the backrow. The team is crying out for a Shingler or a Barclay or a Hamish Watson. Too late now though.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:50 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:Well played Great Britain and Ireland your boys really fronted up and put our guys under defensive pressure, and when the ABs didnt front up the Lions scored their best try of the tour.

 I hope our boys can get into their work early on Monday morning as we need to see more complete game time rather than players disappearing a few minutes after half time, well done kieren Read for that performance being his first top level game in nearly two months.

Congrats Laurie. Your boys done real good. Ale
Yes, that was a classic Lions try. Superb work from Williams to get it set up... and a magic finish from SOB to be there for that final pass.
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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Considering the recent success England and Scotland have had I don't think Ford and Russell being small negates their attacking brilliance.

Sorry what success did they have against the ABs?

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Post by Northgrill on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

Think Farrell was a bit of a letdown today. Willaims and Davies looked dangerous. Daly mixed good and bad. He was skinned for Ioanes try. Caught out for first try too. O'Mahony was good in lineout. Kruis had a bad ball stolen. AWJ so so. Itoje looked good off bench. Murray put some great kicks up. Didn't see much of Vunipola today.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

i wouldnt be overly harsh on the back row, they were up against by far and away the best beck row in the world. kane and reid were superb


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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:55 am

Well done ABs clap

Unlucky Lions
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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:56 am

Connor Murray kicks

And that's about it
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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 10:58 am

marty2086 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Considering the recent success England and Scotland have had I don't think Ford and Russell being small negates their attacking brilliance.

Sorry what success did  they have against the ABs?

I think it would be very hard to expect Ford or Russell to slot in now. In any case, it would still require a) quick ball, b) players hitting the line at pace and c) NZ not being penalised effectively for any offsides. I'm not convinced we'll see any of these, but who knows.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

ebop wrote:Connor Murray kicks

And that's about it

 in fairness he had a bloody sore hand for half the game.

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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

compelling and rich wrote:i wouldnt be overly harsh on the back row, they were up against by far and away the best beck row in the world. kane and reid were superb


Its another reason I'd bring in Best, Itoje and Henderson. All offer more at the breakdown and can really challenge the ABs there, think there were 2 or 3 occasions the Lions had one AB protecting the ruck in front of them and support a bit away and never tried driving them away

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Post by BamBam on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

Yeah must not forget just how good the All Blacks were, congrats guys

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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

Northgrill wrote:Think Farrell was a bit of a letdown today. Willaims and Davies looked dangerous. Daly mixed good and bad. He was skinned for Ioanes try. Caught out for first try too. O'Mahony was good in lineout. Kruis had a bad ball stolen. AWJ so so. Itoje looked good off bench. Murray put some great kicks up. Didn't see much of Vunipola today.

I do wonder if Vunipola is best utilised as a sub. Marler and McGrath are probably both better scrummagers. If we want him starting we need him carrying as much as possible. I think I'm the only person in England who thinks Kruis might only be our 4th best lock. If he's not bossing the line out, then I'm not sure the rest of his game is anything to write home about. Good engine but not a great carrier, not great on the deck, though apparently he's a good scrummager.

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Post by nathan on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

Thought a few would be blaming Daly for the try. First one the whole defence were too narrow. Second one Sexton through the ball to a kiwi and Williams didn't catch it and Daly got done for pace. I'd blame sexton and Williams before Daly for that

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:03 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
ebop wrote:Connor Murray kicks

And that's about it

 in fairness he had a bloody sore hand for half the game.
True, must have hurt, thumb issue?
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Post by nathan on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Trouble is bringing best in is that NZ will target the line out and will nick pretty much every ball.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Well played Great Britain and Ireland your boys really fronted up and put our guys under defensive pressure, and when the ABs didnt front up the Lions scored their best try of the tour.

 I hope our boys can get into their work early on Monday morning as we need to see more complete game time rather than players disappearing a few minutes after half time, well done kieren Read for that performance being his first top level game in nearly two months.

Congrats Laurie. Your boys done real good. Ale
Yes, that was a classic Lions try. Superb work from Williams to get it set up... and a magic finish from SOB to be there for that final pass.
 the Irish flankers try should of have been a big wake up call to the ABs defensive pattern, how basic is it to come up straight, an average player in the under 10s get it?

 And thats not to mention all the missed high balls (especially in the first half) and the missed lineouts.

 good to see you around LD.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

Wtf why is Sonny giving away his shorts and socks? Err.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:09 am

itoje starting next week, lawes on bench as a impact sub. cj needs to be on bench at least, warbs losing out. maybe one change in front row, other than that i dont think there will be massive changes

although i cant see gats dropping warb altogether

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Post by Heaf on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:09 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Is ref reffing just the one team for offside or what? Saying that the Lions look too static in both defence and attack.

Yes Mikey - his reffing of the breakdown in general has been poor - allowing clearing out around the neck, going past the ruck and clearing out players not even in the ruck, diving over, falling on the wrong side, in the side - all the usual stuff they are allowed to get away with while the opposition gets pinged ...

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:16 am

Was it the referee that cost the Lions the game Heaf?
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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

The Ref was poor and was a little one eyed. But that always happens when you play the All Blacks
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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

So it was the referee, thought that was the case
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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:20 am

thought ref swayed towards AB in some decisions, but the better team will often get the more calls

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:21 am

Heaf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Is ref reffing just the one team for offside or what? Saying that the Lions look too static in both defence and attack.

Yes Mikey - his reffing of the breakdown in general has been poor - allowing clearing out around the neck, going past the ruck and clearing out players not even in the ruck, diving over, falling on the wrong side, in the side - all the usual stuff they are allowed to get away with while the opposition gets pinged ...

I thought so too. It seems to be a SH ref thing, not that I think the ref cost the Lions the match or anything.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:22 am

No not all the refs fault but he seemed to give the benefit of the doubt to the all blacks but blowing up straight away for Lions and not allowing advantage, example Teo knock on when it hit his shoulder and the Lions had a run in, should have just played on and reviewed it later, Read knock on results in a try, it hit his thumb.
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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:23 am

The Lions were offside all day and the ABs smashed them up the middle. A great moment of the game was when Peyper told the Lions lineout to STFU. Well played sir.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:23 am

compelling and rich wrote:itoje starting next week, lawes on bench as a impact sub. cj needs to be on bench at least, warbs losing out. maybe one change in front row, other than that i dont think there will be massive changes

although i cant see gats dropping warb altogether

I'd swap him and SOB around. O'Brien carried well but didn't offer enough at the breakdown.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:25 am

ebop wrote:Was it the referee that cost the Lions the game Heaf?

Nope - didn't say that did I? Just said he was poor - also called a couple of knock-ons when the ball had actually gone backwards ...

Not sure why we can't point out a poor performance by the ref without it being implied we're saying that's why we lost ...

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:25 am

The Lions scrum has turned out to be a bit of a damp squib. Is this a real concern for the manhood of all British and Irish fans?
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Post by milkyboy on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:27 am

What's all this talk about Farrell and the back line? We got warrenballed by the allblacks. Considering how little ball we had, the scoreline was pretty respectable. Gatlands post match assessment was spot on. We got humped up front, isolated at the breakdown, knockons, stripped ball carriers killing momentum. With the ball they had we conceded 2 switch off tries and another from compounded individual error. So we shut down the back line pretty well. Trouble was they didn't need the back line as they were gaining simple yards running tight channels.

It's the sign of a great side that they have more than one way to play. Worrying as hell though when you go into a game and the one area you think you have an edge turns out to be your weakness.

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Post by ebop on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:28 am

Heaf wrote:
ebop wrote:Was it the referee that cost the Lions the game Heaf?

Nope - didn't say that did I?  Just said he was poor - also called a couple of knock-ons when the ball had actually gone backwards ...

Not sure why we can't point out a poor performance by the ref without it being implied we're saying that's why we lost ...
Ok. I thought he did well. Especially when he penalised the Lions for being offside and telling the Lions lineout to stop acting like pork chops. Don't worry, you'll get to see some very strange decisions in your favour from the wacky French referee next week OK
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Post by Heaf on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:30 am

For the record I think he's poor whoever he refs ... and I wouldn't bank on a French ref giving us anything Smile

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Post by marty2086 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:31 am

ebop wrote:Was it the referee that cost the Lions the game Heaf?

It gives one side an advantage, when the Lions are being penalised and then the ABs aren't getting penalised for the same offence it creates an imbalance

The ABs took the Lions apart with their intensity and speed of ball, a number of times the Lions got over the ball but were cleared out by the neck or by an AB coming in from the side. Thats a platform to build from

When the Lions were attacking you had the ABs offside and driving the Lions back at times, I don't think Cruden was ever onside during the game, this all prevents the Lions getting front foot ball.

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Post by milkyboy on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:33 am

ebop wrote:The Lions scrum has turned out to be a bit of a damp squib. Is this a real concern for the manhood of all British and Irish fans?

We were neutered ebop. I can't speak for others but my voice has gone up a few octaves.

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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:35 am

ebop wrote:The Lions were offside all day and the ABs smashed them up the middle. A great moment of the game was when Peyper told the Lions lineout to STFU. Well played sir.

I thought the same of the ABs back line, constantly offside. I was probably looking for it more than with the Lions though so I'm sure you're right. It's one law I'd love to see policed more strictly as it just kills all momentum when midfields can be on top of their opposite number as soon as they receive the ball.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:37 am

Heaf wrote:For the record I think he's poor whoever he refs ... and I wouldn't bank on a French ref giving us anything Smile
NH refs tend to stop players clearing out from the side which SH refs tend to allow. Having said that unless we make major changes to the back row it won't do the Lions much good.


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Post by Hood83 on Sat 24 Jun 2017, 11:37 am

ebop wrote:The Lions scrum has turned out to be a bit of a damp squib. Is this a real concern for the manhood of all British and Irish fans?

If I thought the settled partnerships of the English, Welsh, Irish or Scots scrums would struggle at all against the ABs scrum, then maybe. But I don't Smile

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