The breakdown...

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The breakdown...

Post by Fanster on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 5:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

After rewatching test 1, one thing stands out as a massive difference between teams!

We can argue player selection all day long (Lets not, please), but it won't matter unless you get to grips with slowing down all black ball.

The first 10 minutes the average length of the ruck was:

New Zealand 2.6 seconds

Lions 4.1 seconds

Ball was evenly split at 53/47 in the lions favour I think, however the stats may be skewed by Lions options of setting a slow box kick chase a few more times. However this changed little in the next 10 mins

NZ 2.2
Lions 4.3

Between 10 and 20 mins there were a large amount of risky play from NZ, it got more risky as their lead grew:

- 10 mins, good lions D in midfield, AWJ steps over to jackal, SBW from the lions side of the ruck pulls his shirt back, allowing the first clear out man to wipe him out with ease.

- 11mins SOB goes over the ball to jackal, Retalicks first bump doesn't get rid of him so he wraps the neck and twists his body to move.

- 11 minutes, Franks fails to remove George so wraps his neck and drags jim to the floor

- 12 minutes AWJ in a good position, bumped from a very lateral side entry by Taylor

- 15 minute, George wrapped up in tackle, tackler never releases as Kruis hits lower back and falls away, call of 'we got it' as Retalick rolls off his feet on wrong side, Moody drives from behind him, and Read hits up the side and takes out a lions support player.

- 17 mins great double hit by AWJ and Vunipola, Vunipola in a great jackle position Whitelock hits him laterally from the side to drophim instantly

- 17 minutes as Farrell makes a tackle Davies steps in to threaten a jackal, Crotty tackles him away from the contact area, 3 metres back and dumps him on his back

- 17 mins 5 metres out AWJ tackles Read, first clearing player dives over the ruck off his feet, rolls and 3 defends are scrambling to get back into the D line around him.


This isn't just to whinge about SH interpretation at the breakdown clearly assisting one team, it was to find out why NZ's ruck time in the first 20 minutes was so much faster than the lions, and IMO the answer is simple.

NZ players solve problems, they find space to run into or at 90% of the time, they have developed a nous over years of playing of not getting hit straight up or by numbers. Footwork, before, during and after receiving the ball is incredible, and far more active than Lions players, who man for man made tackles with lazy legs (Not driving of the legs, staying on feet and in the game), and having to go down behind, or on top of the ball carrier, making them easy to clear, or ignore when approaching a ruck.

We HAVE to restructure our junior game, too many of these elite players run straight easily read lines, they never change direction, pace or angle, and therefore are easy to target and drop. I suspect that the majority of forwards in the pro game started life as big ball carrying number 8's at junior level, and were highlighted because of their physical prowess and ball carrying abilities by low quality selection policies, then taught to play position specific skills when in academies, this I also find infuriating!!!

Can anyone tell me the history of the lions forwards, I think Warburton started life as an 8 didn't he? Falatau was always an 8? I think I heard someone once tell me O Brien played 8 at junior levels...


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Re: The breakdown...

Post by Cyril on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 9:14 am

Players have been penalised for screaming when attempting a charge-down before. It can certainly be considered ungentlemanly conduct to do the same at a lineout.

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Re: The breakdown...

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 9:15 am

So expect the scrum half's when they next pretend to pick up the ball and don't, to have a penalty against them for unsportsman like behaviour.

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Re: The breakdown...

Post by eirebilly on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 9:16 am

ebop wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
ebop wrote:Wrong

There is a law eirebilly

No, that is your interpretation of the rules, does not mean you are correct...
Clearly the French referees don't know much about the spirit of the game and sportsmanlike behaviour Rolling Eyes

I have said that I do not like it (if you read my original post) and would be happy for ref's to use their own discretion regarding this. I am just countering your point whereby you stated their is a law against it when I do not believe there is a specific law, it comes down to personal interpretation. Personal interpretation does not mean you or myself are correct.
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Re: The breakdown...

Post by kingelderfield on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

I'm not a big fan of what I would call 'distraction tactices', mainly because if you have any real self belief you just ignore them and focus on executing your basics. Its all a bit of nothing and not much else. Of course Muppet's on websites will always look to wind people up using whatever excuse or argument that enters their daft little heads.

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Re: The breakdown...

Post by ebop on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 11:53 am

Speaking of breakdowns. Connor Murray is very slow at clearing the ball from the ruck. He seems to take an age. Is this typical for him?
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Re: The breakdown...

Post by profitius on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 12:48 pm

ebop wrote:Speaking of breakdowns. Connor Murray is very slow at clearing the ball from the ruck. He seems to take an age. Is this typical for him?

Yes, Ireland tactics. They have to wait to get everything set up. It's essentially a defensive way of playing the game because both defences can get set up and make it harder for both teams to attack.
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Re: The breakdown...

Post by TJ on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 12:58 pm

ebop wrote:Speaking of breakdowns. Connor Murray is very slow at clearing the ball from the ruck. He seems to take an age. Is this typical for him?

I thought him slower than usual - maybe because players were slow into position / didn't give him a target?

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Re: The breakdown...

Post by ebop on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 1:16 pm

TJ wrote:
ebop wrote:Speaking of breakdowns. Connor Murray is very slow at clearing the ball from the ruck. He seems to take an age. Is this typical for him?

I thought him slower than usual - maybe because players were slow into position / didn't give him a target?
Yeah true, thought that could have been an explanation or a combination thing. They should look to speed it up. Just do it and see what happens? The Lions have shown they can get back into D and rush up all day every day so these guys should put in the effort to get back so Murray can just fling it out.
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Re: The breakdown...

Post by TJ on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 2:45 pm

Murray almost looked like Frodo the glacial ( laidlaw) at times he spent that long at the back of the rucks looking around

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Re: The breakdown...

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 26 Jun 2017, 9:35 pm

Anyone remember the NZ-Ireland return fixture in Dublin? ABs didn't get reffed at the ruck or with their high tackles (red card offence excused for some reason); The breakdown was a mess and always is against the ABs, they just don't get reffed there for some reason.

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Re: The breakdown...

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