NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by George Carlin on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 7:45 am

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NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  
1 July 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
WESTPAC Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington

Live on Sky Sports HD

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
ARs: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
30 Won 6
3 Drawn 3
6 Lost 30
664 Points 360

B. Recent Form

24 June 2017
Eden Park, Auckland
30 – 15 to New Zealand

9 July 2005 
Eden Park, Auckland 
38 – 19 to New Zealand 

2 July 2005 
Westpac Stadium, Wellington 
48 – 18 to New Zealand

25 June 2005 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
21 – 3 to New Zealand

3 July 1993 
Eden Park, Auckland 
30 – 13 to New Zealand 

26 June 1993 
Athletic Park, Wellington 
7 – 20 to British & Irish Lions

12 June 1993 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
20 – 18 to New Zealand

16 July 1983 
Eden Park, Auckland 
38 – 6 to New Zealand

2 July 1983 
Carisbrook, Dunedin 
15 – 8 to New Zealand

18 June 1983 
Athletic Park (Wellington), Wellington 
9 – 0 to New Zealand

4 June 1983 
Lancaster Park, Christchurch 
16 – 12 to New Zealand

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND

[tbc]

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS  

[tbc]
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:01 am

Let's talk about it then. He's been the best performing fly half on tour though Sexton seems to be finding a bit more form. Gatland has recognised that he can use both to mirror slightly the hugely successful pattern england have used. Went pretty well with both on the pitch in the warm.ups mixing between 10 12 and 13 for them both and it gives something a.bit different for nz to think about and probably.weren't expecting.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by BamBam on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:04 am

.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:04 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Just a thought as we enter the 11th month of the season. How many of saturday's squad will have played in each of those 10 preceding months and what will be the effect on them come the new season in 8/9 weeks time?

Jamie George:

June 17 - 4 games
May 17 - 3
April 17 - 5
March 17 - 3
Feb 17 - 3
Jan 17 - 4
Dec 16 - 4
Nov 16 - 3
Oct 16 - 4
Sept 16 - 5


Season started on September 3rd, likely to end on July 8th covering 40 matches. Now I admit he has spent a number coming on from the bench, but that is still ridiculous - and I am sure will be similar for others.


9 for his club were off the bench, plus 9 tests and lets say all 3 lions tests from the bench. Thats a total of 19 actual starts and 21 from the bench ...less excessive than 40 games sounds.

The EPS agreement includes a number of thinsg to manage workloads. Players who pass a threshold of minutes in the AIs are given a mandatory rest week over Christmas. Theres also a mandatory 10 week rest period over the summer ...which I assume includes the Lions series. So none of the England EPS players will be available till mid september for their clubs.

They are limited to 32 full matches a season (or minutes equivelant). If we assume George has played 25 minutes in each of his replacement games that still only amounts to about 27 full games, well below the threshold. The 2015/16 season EPS players played an equivelant of 23 full matches on average. (What this perhaps shows is that the caps too high...but at least the principle is being followed). That figure is of course is skewed by injuries.

The minutes thing shouldn't work like that. Playing 50 minutes one week and 30 minutes the next is more taxing (both mentally and physically) than playing 80 minutes one week and sitting in the stands the next.

All your training is to peak on the game day, you warm up, you get yourself in the zone. All this is the same effort whether you start or bench.

Mentally, playing 40 games must be knackering, even if you only play 40 minutes a game. Especially with the season how it is, you want to peak for the Autumn series, the Six Nations, the close of the club season, then raise yourself to go again for a Lions tour?

George played a Grand Slam game, 3 Champions Cup knock-out games and a Premiership semi-final in the 3 months leading up to tour, before embarking on a punishing tour schedule where he's had to prove himself again. Would not be surprised if he's flagging a little.


To be brutally honest most England players find cooking spaghetti mentally taxing.

I asume the systems set up in such a way as to actually be managaeable and transparent to clubs and England, rather than so complex and murky that noones sure if he can play on a given day or not. And yes you can argue with the details ..but the point I was making is that there is a system in place and that he has a lengthy mandatory rest after this series. Nor has hit the maximum threshold, some players in the past have. Theres regular articles pointing arguing that the EPS agreemmet doesnt go far enough. Im not quite sure how its stacks up against other Lions nations but they all have player management agreements in place. Its obviously a lot easier for the Welsh and Scots who rarely play much rugby in Europe, although those based in England and France dont really get any looking after.
So yes no doubt he and a lot of others will be ragged silly off the back of this. I cba to look up but I suspect Itoje amongst others will have played more minutes this season and at equal or higher intensity. Maybe its on Saracens to manage their squad a bit better, or just stop doing so well on so many fronts ( At least they gave their lads Jeff final weekend off)
After the last Lions tour a number of players took a few extra weeks top get fully up to speed even after the extended break. As per the world cup thats just what you accept for this going ahead.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:05 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's talk about it then. He's been the best performing fly half on tour though Sexton seems to be finding a bit more form. Gatland has recognised that he can use both to mirror slightly the hugely successful pattern england have used. Went pretty well with both on the pitch in the warm.ups mixing between 10 12 and 13 for them both and it gives something a.bit different for nz to think about and probably.weren't expecting.


That sounds like General Melchetts argument for walking slowly toward the enemy and not shooting

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:09 am

No particular issue with Farrell starting at 12 but for it to work you'd need either Ford or Russell inside him or a pacier option outside him at 13, the midfield looks a bit blunt to me and it highlights the mistakes made with the initial selection.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by beshocked on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:14 am

Sadly I think Jamie George will be scapegoated in this 2nd test.

Taking out Kruis and Mahony will damage the lineout but the blame will go to George and Itoje if the lineout doesn't fire.

Itoje has to call the lineout now as there is no support from Kruis or Mahony.

Despite AWJ being the most obvious player that needs replacing. I'd even be happy with Lawes starting ahead of Kruis.


Teo is unlucky to be dropped.

Prediction - Jamie George gets destroyed by the media, Itoje drops out of the 23 after being lambasted for a weaker lineout. Owens and Lawes start in for the 3rd test.

5 Welsh players in the pack for the 3rd test - Owens,AWJ,Warbuton,Tipuric,Faletau


AWJ will hold onto his spot. He's become undroppable by Gatland.



Gooseberry George has rotated with Brits at Saracens and has only been a sub for England so in terms of purely minutes he is not as high as others. Physically though he'll be just as tired as others.

George doesn't have the opportunity to have rest periods because of the workload - being picked for lots of games obviously drains the tank.

At England and Saracens there are basically 2 hookers then the rest. That means those 2 hookers don't really get a week off.

Maybe next season at Saracens with 2 new hookers being signed things might change.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:16 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's talk about it then. He's been the best performing fly half on tour though Sexton seems to be finding a bit more form. Gatland has recognised that he can use both to mirror slightly the hugely successful pattern england have used. Went pretty well with both on the pitch in the warm.ups mixing between 10 12 and 13 for them both and it gives something a.bit different for nz to think about and probably.weren't expecting.

dropping Teo for Farrell is a joke.

Farrell is not the best 10 or 12 on tour, so why is he starting ?

Also, for your best performing fly half on tour quote, I am of the opinion that you are wrong with that assumption as well, and if Farrell was not English, so would you.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:17 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's talk about it then. He's been the best performing fly half on tour though Sexton seems to be finding a bit more form. Gatland has recognised that he can use both to mirror slightly the hugely successful pattern england have used. Went pretty well with both on the pitch in the warm.ups mixing between 10 12 and 13 for them both and it gives something a.bit different for nz to think about and probably.weren't expecting.

No fly half has been good enough on this tour.

The trouble with Sexton and Farrell playing together is they have to defend as well.

Sony Boy and the 2 big wingers will be licking their lips running inside lines off of Barretts passing and running amoke.

Its going to be ugly


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No9 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:18 am

Well got some of that selection right...

http://www.606v2.com/t65930p600-new-zealand-v-british-irish-lions-24-june
No9 wrote:BBC is reporting that Gats is looking at Itoje for AWJ (Agree) and Warbs (for SOB or POM - Don't agree)...

Other changes I'd make, would be Webb starting instead of Murray (Murray was too slow and box kicks so blatantly advertised). And starting Webb I would also play Biggar at 10 with Farrell at 12 (sorry Sexton not the force he used to be... I'd drop him). As for 13, JD was good leave him there and also Daly, Watson and Williams to keep their starting place.

Front row probably leave the starters with same bench.

I partly agree with Sir Clive Woodentop (God.. never thought I'd say that)... Its tactics that have to change, but the main tactic, ie box kicking means putting Murray on the bench and Webb to start. We should then see faster ball from the breakdown. And Biggar at 10, would give a partnership that knows each other and works. Also, Farrell at 12 would give better more attacking options, not that Teo did anything wrong, just unlucky at "my" re-org.

But that's just my thoughts.. I just know others will disagree.

I did say elsewhere, that if Murray starts then you select Sexton, if Biggar gets the jersey you start Webb... Looks like Murray gets the nod. I still think that's the killer as his delivery speed has been terrible, forcing him to box kick constantly, which will kill us.

AWJ, was a world class player, but is coming to the end of his international career quickly. I think it would have been wise to put Henderson in.

But I still think the bad selection in this side is the half-back partnership. Murray is too slow distributing the ball and Sexton is no longer the 10 he once was.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:18 am

Why are AWJ Warburton starting, why are Tipuric or Henderson not in the 23 at all?

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by TJ on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:21 am

LOrd Dowlais

I am a Scots fan, I don't generally rate Farrell but he would be my pick at 10. Sextons struggling for form, Biggar is a better kicker but a more limited player even if he looked good in the warmup game but against very limited opposition

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by BamBam on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's talk about it then. He's been the best performing fly half on tour though Sexton seems to be finding a bit more form. Gatland has recognised that he can use both to mirror slightly the hugely successful pattern england have used. Went pretty well with both on the pitch in the warm.ups mixing between 10 12 and 13 for them both and it gives something a.bit different for nz to think about and probably.weren't expecting.

dropping Teo for Farrell is a joke.

Farrell is not the best 10 or 12 on tour, so why is he starting ?

Also, for your best performing fly half on tour quote, I am of the opinion that you are wrong with that assumption as well, and if Farrell was not English, so would you.

Hasn't stopped Jones or Warburton starting so why the hell not I suppose

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:22 am

Dropping te'o isn't a mistake ld.in the context one of him or jd needed to go as the balance was all wrong. As dropping te'o allows Farrell to shuffle across to get Sexton in as well I'm all for it. The fact that Farrell is English is immaterial, he's well worth his spot. Still waiting for you to back up.your opinion that Biggar deserves a place though and I'd happily read through it and hear your thoughts on why I thought he was.below par a game before last.

Geoff I'd agree no one has been magical but yes I would say that Farrell has the most form. Defence is going to be interesting as ive read the same for England ie ford and Farrell will be targeted...its.working ok.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by beshocked on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:24 am

I think you either have to start Farrell or leave him out of the 23.

I'd take a gamble with Russell on the bench partnered with Webb.

Murray and Sexton starting as halfbacks.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:26 am

I have never said Biggar should start. Another piece of art from you making things up to suit your very thin argument.

I am of the opinion that Sexton should start and Biggar should be on the bench.

Also, I am sure there is somebody on here who can post stats with line breaks/try's scored per min played ect when certain individuals have played at fly half.

edit. this is a reply to 7 1/2.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:26 am

beshocked wrote:I'd take a gamble with Russell on the bench partnered with Webb.

Russell has already been sent home I think.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:28 am

7 1/2
England haven't played AB yet - they will expose it.

You get away with it against most teams but not the AB, as Saturday will show.

Actually a revitalised SA could do so as well - 2nd in the SH tournament this year - Australia (Hooper and Folau aside are awful)

A much better option, and less risky defensively, would be keep Teo and bring in Joseph - but that would mean dropping a Welshman

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:30 am

Thanks ld. I'm. Still waiting for your reasons around Biggar but it's a start.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Scottrf on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:30 am

LordDowlais wrote:I have never said Biggar should start. Another piece of art from you making things up to suit your very thin argument.

I am of the opinion that Sexton should start and Biggar should be on the bench.

Also, I am sure there is somebody on here who can post stats with line breaks/try's scored per min played ect when certain individuals have played at fly half.

edit. this is a reply to 7 1/2.
But you are advocating removing pretty much all of the players who know how to consistently win international rugby games.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:32 am

I disagree geoff. I'm a big fan of a 2nd playmaker. You could be right that nz beat us with the combo but for me it gives us our best chance. Against aus who are pretty good attacking wise it was.actually ford and Farrell which saved us from being overrun.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

BamBam wrote:I actually think I would have rather seen Cory Hill get the start at second row than Alun Wyn Jones

Probably frakin schit would have been better than definitely frakin schit

Classy as always.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Hoonercat on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:The biggest joke about this selection is Farrell at 12. How much influence does daddy have here ?

Also, do not get me started with Jamie George starting he should not even be in the match day squad.

Lineout went well and second highest tackle count against the ABs last weekend, I'd say that qualifies him to be in the squad Erm

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by beshocked on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

LondonTiger wrote:
beshocked wrote:I'd take a gamble with Russell on the bench partnered with Webb.

Russell has already been sent home I think.

Well that's a shame.

Tour has been a mess so far.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

As I say though - have you seen Australia this year - on the Scotland and Italy performance they would be 2nd bottom in the 6N.

It would not shock me if they finish 4th this year in the SH tournament
Their attack has gone to pot
I would be drafting Kurtley Beale back in the side asap - they need him badly

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
A much better option, and less risky defensively, would be keep Teo and bring in Joseph - but that would mean dropping a Welshman

I wasn't sure why you'd drop JD2 who has been the best centre on tour, but then I remembered you're Irish and still bitter over an out of form BOD being dropped in 2013. It's about time you got over it.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Scottrf on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:44 am

Awww I love how the Lions unites us.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by EST on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

I fear a doing here, Sonny Bill and Naholo are going to run riot down that 10/12 channel.

I was originally a supporter of the Sexton/Farrell partnership, but seeing how effective SB was when Teo went off last week, alongside the fact that they have hardly played together, is very worrisome.

As for Warbs and AWJ, best of luck to them - I hope they go well and justify the huge show of faith Gatland has made. Personally, I think it's a totally rotten decision, but they are there now.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by marty2086 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
A much better option, and less risky defensively, would be keep Teo and bring in Joseph - but that would mean dropping a Welshman

I wasn't sure why you'd drop JD2 who has been the best centre on tour, but then I remembered you're Irish and still bitter over an out of form BOD being dropped in 2013. It's about time you got over it.

picard

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by beshocked on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

Scottrf wrote:Awww I love how the Lions unites us.

Doesn't help when one the nations is basically ignored.

Sure it's not a new thing but Scotland did warrant more call ups.

I don't think anyone is against deserving players being picked but it's impossible to justify retaining AWJ.


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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by kingelderfield on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

Here's the team I posted on the previous thread. You may argue with the front row, especially with Furlong who I would be happy to concede, but Mako and George are both looking tired and will serve better as impact from the bench.

You'll note both AWJ and Warburton are not selected and though I considered the 10/12 option I decided against it mainly because of the SBW threat. However I do except that Ford and Farrell have provided better balance for a dominant english side, but it is a massive ask/gamble for Sexton and Farrell especially if the pack(ref) does not provide dominance.

Also I am a big believer that Otoje will be the next english captain and so have no concerns giving him the arm band in the biggest game of his life - because he will rise to it.

Finally my squad gives real impact from the bench which will be the difference;

Marler,Best,Cole/Furlong,Kruis,Lawes*,O'BrianFaletau,Otoje(c)*

Murray,Sexton/Farrell,Watson,Farrell/T'eo,Davies,Joseph,Williams

Vunipola
George
Sinckler/Furlong
O'Mahony
Tipuric

Webb
T'eo/Farrell
Elliott

Very tough call for Furlong who has been immense, however I believe Cole wants to make a statement and then you have to consider impact from the bench, which is where I'd give it to Sinckler.

As to Farrell I'm undecided. Do you go with the English option Ford(Sexton)/Farrell or strait out Sexton and T'eo? Ok I've made my decision, its Sexton T'eo with Farrell on the bench.

As to Elliott, I just think Joseph is too good a player not to start.

*Otoje and Lawes to shuffle as they did for England.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I disagree geoff. I'm a big fan of a 2nd playmaker. You could be right that nz beat us with the combo but for me it gives us our best chance. Against aus who are pretty good attacking wise it was.actually ford and Farrell which saved us from being overrun.

With Henshaw injured Te'o & Farrell are the only 2 players in the squad with a decent amount of international game time at 12 this year too. Both really had to be in the 23
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:52 am

I'd throw in to that sbw may have a great game on Saturday. He's actually eating and drinking during the day now!

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by marty2086 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd throw in to that sbw may have a great game on Saturday.  He's actually eating and drinking during the day now!

I heard he's still fasting, saving his appetite to eat the Lions midfield alive

Run

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:55 am

marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd throw in to that sbw may have a great game on Saturday.  He's actually eating and drinking during the day now!

I heard he's still fasting, saving his appetite to eat the Lions midfield alive

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:56 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
A much better option, and less risky defensively, would be keep Teo and bring in Joseph - but that would mean dropping a Welshman

I wasn't sure why you'd drop JD2 who has been the best centre on tour, but then I remembered you're Irish and still bitter over an out of form BOD being dropped in 2013. It's about time you got over it.


Nothing further from my mind.

As you may have noticed I am proposing the selection of 2 Englishmen, my nationality is irrelevant
It would be hard on JD2 but it is about picking the best combination not the best players.
For the record I'd pick Teo and JD2 before the current set up

Teo, Joseph
Teo, JD2
Farrell, ANOther
in that order of preference

Gatland has gone for the worst option, confirming my option he is a limited coach at the highest level







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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by SamTheQuin on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:59 am

Sure I read that Sexton, Farrell and Davies have played a combined 22 minutes together on this tour. Great place to throw them in

Glad Dagg has been moved to FB as he hasn't looked great and we might get some joy with Daly and Watson's speed against him - unless it rains, which it looks likely to and means we've got another huge ball carrier to deal with.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

SamTheQuin wrote:Sure I read that Sexton, Farrell and Davies have played a combined 22 minutes together on this tour. Great place to throw them in

Glad Dagg has been moved to FB as he hasn't looked great and we might get some joy with Daly and Watson's speed against him - unless it rains, which it looks likely to and means we've got another huge ball carrier to deal with.

Heavy rain forecast all day in Wellington on Saturday
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks ld. I'm. Still waiting for your reasons around Biggar but it's a start.

Pretty simple really. Biggar should be in the squad because he has been playing better than both Sexton and Farrell.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

EST wrote:I fear a doing here, Sonny Bill and Naholo are going to run riot down that 10/12 channel.

I was originally a supporter of the Sexton/Farrell partnership, but seeing how effective SB was when Teo went off last week, alongside the fact that they have hardly played together, is very worrisome.

As for Warbs and AWJ, best of luck to them - I hope they go well and justify the huge show of faith Gatland has made.  Personally, I think it's a totally rotten decision, but they are there now.  

A man I can totally agree with Hug

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Scottrf on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks ld. I'm. Still waiting for your reasons around Biggar but it's a start.

Pretty simple really. Biggar should be in the squad because he has been playing better than both Sexton and Farrell.
How do you know? You're comparing playing NZ to playing club reserves. Farrell wasn't great behind a dominated pack - shock horror.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Sure I read that Sexton, Farrell and Davies have played a combined 22 minutes together on this tour. Great place to throw them in

Glad Dagg has been moved to FB as he hasn't looked great and we might get some joy with Daly and Watson's speed against him - unless it rains, which it looks likely to and means we've got another huge ball carrier to deal with.

Heavy rain forecast all day in Wellington on Saturday

So we need a big strong 12 who can carry hard yards and tackle like a demon....no wait that cant be right Shocked

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by TightHEAD on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:07 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Sure I read that Sexton, Farrell and Davies have played a combined 22 minutes together on this tour. Great place to throw them in

Glad Dagg has been moved to FB as he hasn't looked great and we might get some joy with Daly and Watson's speed against him - unless it rains, which it looks likely to and means we've got another huge ball carrier to deal with.

Heavy rain forecast all day in Wellington on Saturday

So we need a big strong 12 who can carry hard yards and tackle like a demon....no wait that cant be right Shocked


Should have played Warrenball.
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by robbo277 on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:08 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
EST wrote:I fear a doing here, Sonny Bill and Naholo are going to run riot down that 10/12 channel.

I was originally a supporter of the Sexton/Farrell partnership, but seeing how effective SB was when Teo went off last week, alongside the fact that they have hardly played together, is very worrisome.

As for Warbs and AWJ, best of luck to them - I hope they go well and justify the huge show of faith Gatland has made.  Personally, I think it's a totally rotten decision, but they are there now.  

A man I can totally agree with Hug

And me. Sexton and Farrell is how I would have gone looking into the tour, but based on the tour so far it's not what I'd have now. It's desperate.

And the last paragraph is spot on. They might come good and I hope for the Lions sake they do. But Gatland has made the decision with he's eyes shut. All he has now is blind faith in these two guys to not let him down. Fair enough, but neither would be in my 23.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks ld. I'm. Still waiting for your reasons around Biggar but it's a start.

Pretty simple really. Biggar should be in the squad because he has been playing better than both Sexton and Farrell.
How do you know? You're comparing playing NZ to playing club reserves. Farrell wasn't great behind a dominated pack - shock horror.

You can only play against the opposition infront of you, so to say that is a bit unfair. Biggar has took his chances well. Also, none of the franchises are poor sides.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:12 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
SamTheQuin wrote:Sure I read that Sexton, Farrell and Davies have played a combined 22 minutes together on this tour. Great place to throw them in

Glad Dagg has been moved to FB as he hasn't looked great and we might get some joy with Daly and Watson's speed against him - unless it rains, which it looks likely to and means we've got another huge ball carrier to deal with.

Heavy rain forecast all day in Wellington on Saturday

So we need a big strong 12 who can carry hard yards and tackle like a demon....no wait that cant be right Shocked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2179537

I can see Barrett & Dagg kicking for the corners & NZ trying to pressure the Lions' lineout

Talk about role reversal
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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:16 am

kingelderfield wrote:*Otoje and Lawes to shuffle as they did for England.
It's Itoje.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by Scottrf on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:


You can only play against the opposition infront of you, so to say that is a bit unfair. Biggar has took his chances well. Also, none of the franchises are poor sides.
He made mistakes too. And in easier lower pressure games behind a more dominant pack. He's kicking well and playing solidly but I don't think he's a must pick at all.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:19 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks ld. I'm. Still waiting for your reasons around Biggar but it's a start.

Pretty simple really. Biggar should be in the squad because he has been playing better than both Sexton and Farrell.
How do you know? You're comparing playing NZ to playing club reserves. Farrell wasn't great behind a dominated pack - shock horror.

You can only play against the opposition infront of you, so to say that is a bit unfair. Biggar has took his chances well. Also, none of the franchises are poor sides.

At full strength they are not but the Chiefs were a 2nd string side and the Cans were missing a lot of players

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by EST on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:21 am

robbo277 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
EST wrote:I fear a doing here, Sonny Bill and Naholo are going to run riot down that 10/12 channel.

I was originally a supporter of the Sexton/Farrell partnership, but seeing how effective SB was when Teo went off last week, alongside the fact that they have hardly played together, is very worrisome.

As for Warbs and AWJ, best of luck to them - I hope they go well and justify the huge show of faith Gatland has made.  Personally, I think it's a totally rotten decision, but they are there now.  

A man I can totally agree with Hug

And me. Sexton and Farrell is how I would have gone looking into the tour, but based on the tour so far it's not what I'd have now. It's desperate.

And the last paragraph is spot on. They might come good and I hope for the Lions sake they do. But Gatland has made the decision with he's eyes shut. All he has now is blind faith in these two guys to not let him down. Fair enough, but neither would be in my 23.

What can you do lads? Just gotta get behind the players picked now. Gats has set out his stall, and he will be judged on those decisions after the game - I can't see it being a pretty analysis.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

Post by kingelderfield on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:22 am

Heavy rain from midday onwards;

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/weather/weatherdetail.aspx?wla=32

Here's hoping Murray and Sexton can kick for the ages.

To be fair, with this weather, a Murray, Sexton & Farrell kicking option is half decent assuming the pack can gain sufficient possession.

I Just cannot buy either of the AWJ or Warburton selections as neither has shown the required form either on tour or to be fair for a considerable time.

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Re: NEW ZEALAND v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS, 1 July

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