Wimbledon - Day 2

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Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 9:29 am

Fed and Djoko in action today after Kerber starts on Centre. Anyone else think the courts looked somewhat less than immaculate on the opening day. Not as green as usual, IMHO.
   I have a feeling Djoko could go all the way this year. He thoroughly enjoyed his time at Eastbourne, by all accounts. As for the women, who can say ? A case could be made for almost anyone in the top 20.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 10:22 am

The courts broke up very fast. Looked like clumps had come out

They reckoned the late start and hot weather is gonna make it turn to dirt very fast

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:35 pm

Wimbledon should consider replacing the grass on Middle Sunday on specific courts.


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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 12:40 pm

In the battle of the Brits, Ward takes the first set against Edmund. Delpo a set up against Kokkinakis.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 1:36 pm

Interesting idea. Can you lay a gras court successfully in just 24 hours? 

I'd be worried the new lay wouldn't be strong enough

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by MrInvisible on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 2:16 pm

Nice entertaining women's match between Kerber, and Falconi, good contrast in styles between Kerber's power and angles and Falconi's slices and net approaches. Kerber will win this but Falconi is giving her a decent match.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 2:58 pm

Delpo through though I cant help feeling he made hard work of it... still first match wtg

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 3:22 pm

temporary21 wrote:Interesting idea. Can you lay a gras court successfully in just 24 hours? 

I'd be worried the new lay wouldn't be strong enough

It is easier to 'transplant' one. With a larger time window, Wimbledon did it for Olympics after the slam.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:53 pm

Dolgopolov retires. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 4:56 pm

Both klizan and dog turning up for the Cheque it seems 

Neither were fit to play and it's been a robbed day for cc

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 5:16 pm

Wawrinka was also in it for the cheque. Wink

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 5:23 pm

I don't see anything "wrong" with Tomic's admission that his biggest issue on court is his mental attitude. He said in an interview that he feels bored at times on court. He did say he tries but that the game gets away from him because of that attitude. Rather than trying to delve further journalists just started attacking him, including the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40497334

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 5:37 pm

I mean it's tough. I guess you play if you think there's any chance. It's frustrating to see though 

Tomic was pushed into tennis by his a hole father. It's clear he's dissolusioned with it. He sees it as just a way to make moneY

He's honest at least

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 5:53 pm

Agassi could have said the same thing.. he continued to play tennis simply because he lacked the education to do otherwise .. thanks to his a hole of a father.. but didn't looked bored on court to me. God there is sack loads of money to be made in this sport.. don't like it the heat then get out of the kitchen people pay good money for tickets to watch cr@p players like Tomic

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:04 pm

Thanks for those answers (temporary21 & haddie-nuff) - that makes a lot of sense.  If you are pushed into something from an early age - then by the time you become "self-aware" and can think for yourself - you find yourself earning good money on a tennis court on the professional circuit - and not really knowing why you're there or whether you really want to be there.  It is almost like having a religion drummed into you from an early age.  You learn all the rituals, you memorise all the words, but then at some point you start to think for yourself - and say to yourself - what am I doing here?

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:12 pm

There is no excuse for people like Tomic.. his heart is obviously not in the sport, he earns a living and that's all he cares about. How can anyone on this forum ask why we are not getting the younger generation coming through .. we have four at the top all in their thirties and they are what the sport is all about.. true they don't need the money anymore but their love for the sport in which they have dedicated their life is obvious for all to see. BORED !!!!!! what the hell are you doing in the sport if you are bored. Its an insult to those tennis fans who pay enormous amount of money to watch players who are obviously injured before they walk out on court or who don't want to be there. The big four will be playing on their zimmer frames at this rate. Shocked

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:21 pm

Pity that the CC crowd had to contend with two retirements today. At least they are now getting an extra match.
   Saw some of the delpo match including the exciting last game which saw Kokki save six MPs. Opponents are bound to pummel the delpo backhand as he so rarely hits thru it on that flank due to his wrist problems. Considering this hindrance, he's still a handful for most opponents.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:22 pm

I am thinking of a bigger issue.  Kids being driven by their parents to succeed at something, a sport, playing a musical instrument ... something that is non-negotiable - the child is forced into it by overbearing parents.   There is an almost religious devotion in it. Parental love is withdrawn for the goal of success in the chosen field.  I am thinking it could be viewed as a form of child abuse.  Sometimes it works for the child / adult child - sometimes it doesn't.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:33 pm

I think you are talking about the Williams sisters here, they were pushed into tennis by their father.
But that being said it can apply to many of us when we were growing up.. but when you are adult you have choices.. I still believe it be immoral not give the public the performance they have paid to see .. simply because you get bored. You should go and do something else,

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:46 pm

What can't be forgiven is how tomic half asses it on on court.

Ok fair enough. Plenty of people do an job they don't like to make some money. You've still gotta turn up and do a good job

If he wants to earn the money he needs to stop the moping and tanking in court

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:47 pm

That said it's not immoral. That's the wrong word I think. You've no moral obligation to the crowd 

It's unprofessional and against the contract you make with the atp who are in a sense your employers

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:02 pm

I didn't see the match just the interview.  And I don't know Tomic's story.  Except he seems to have been pushed into tennis by his father, and his father has maybe sacrificed a normal family life in order to turn Tomic into something.

From the interview - I saw someone who was being honest and who didn't really understand why he feels that way - he tried but he felt a bit bored at times and just wasn't able to assert himself in the match.  He earns a living from it, he is doing what he was forced to do throughout his childhood and early adulthood, he has become good at it, socialised to it, he doesn't know anything else, but it leaves him with a form of emptiness.   I think he needs to see a psychiatrist - I think he has deep seated unresolved issues.


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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:03 pm

temporary21 wrote:That said it's not immoral. That's the wrong word I think. You've no moral obligation to the crowd 

It's unprofessional and against the contract you make with the atp who are in a sense your employers




That's a moot point as one if the definitions is unscrupulous or unethical..and I believe both apply

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:05 pm

No name Bertie wrote:I didn't see the match just the interview.  And I don't know Tomic's story.  Except he seems to have been pushed into tennis by his father, and his father has maybe sacrificed a normal family life in order to turn Tomic into something.

From the interview - I saw someone who was being honest and who didn't really understand why he feels that way - he tried but he felt a bit bored at times and just wasn't able to assert himself in the match.  He earns a living from it, he is doing what he was forced to do throughout his childhood and early adulthood, he has become good at it, socialised to it, he doesn't know anything else, but it leaves him with a form of emptiness.   I think he needs to see a psychiatrist - I think he has deep seated unresolved issues.



Rolling Eyes poor soul

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:07 pm

It's not unethical theres no ethical dilemma in playing tennis

Don't feel like I know the man. Or what he's had to deal with to judge him personally 

I just know he disrespects the game when he tanks

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:09 pm

What are your sympathies to child abuse Haddie-nuff?  Have you had experience dealing with it?

ps I am going to stop with this now. I should have put this on another thread. Sorry for diverting this thread!

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:16 pm

No name Bertie wrote:What are your sympathies to child abuse Haddie-nuff?  Have you had experience dealing with it?  

Yes I have and true we never forget and the word is EMPATHY .. but in adulthood we have choices and they are down to us at the end of the day. Tomic is a big boy now he does not have to live in the shadow of his father .. or take instructions from him. He does not have to continue in a sport he does not want to be in.. he is a young man and can carve himself out another career. The same as Dan Evans does not have to take cocaine to cure his problems either. There are many who have had such childhoods but chose to take the necessary action to improve their life and not to blame others.
Bye way of interest did you know that Ivan Lendl's mother was a tennis player.. she had nobody to look after him when he was a toddler so took him with her and tied him to the net post whilst she played.. for god knows how long. !!!

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:20 pm

HN - Thanks for the interesting snippet with regards to Lendl. I can accept your view - I think in the particular case of Tomic it might be a bit harsh - but I am not going to claim I have a better view - just a slightly different view.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:22 pm

temporary21 wrote:It's not unethical theres no ethical dilemma in playing tennis

Don't feel like I know the man. Or what he's had to deal with to judge him personally 

I just know he disrespects the game when he tanks

You seem unable to differentiate between the person and the player temp... I am interested in what Tomic does on court. On that I can judge him

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by JuliusHMarx on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:32 pm

He could be fined for not trying hard enough - probably should be, although it would be just a drop in the ocean to him.
Sport is a rather unique situation. If I put in enough half-@ssed performances at my job, I'd get sacked, but then I 'm not in the top 100 in the world at what I do. If I was, I might get away with it because I'd still be good enough.
But in sport you can't really be sacked - the public don't know in advance who will be on court, so they can't boycott his matches or ask for a refund. As such, the players do 'owe it' to the playing public not to just go through the motions. It is unprofessional to do otherwise, but Tomic is good enough to be unprofessional and still win some matches and get paid a lot of money. That's the way the game stands, unfortunately. Not sure what the solution is.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 8:31 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:He could be fined for not trying hard enough - probably should be, although it would be just a drop in the ocean to him.
Sport is a rather unique situation. If I put in enough half-@ssed performances at my job, I'd get sacked, but then I 'm not in the top 100 in the world at what I do. If I was, I might get away with it because I'd still be good enough.
But in sport you can't really be sacked - the public don't know in advance who will be on court, so they can't boycott his matches or ask for a refund. As such, the players do 'owe it' to the playing public not to just go through the motions. It is unprofessional to do otherwise, but Tomic is good enough to be unprofessional and still win some matches and get paid a lot of money. That's the way the game stands, unfortunately. Not sure what the solution is.
I suppose they can fine the player afterwards or penalise the player during the game.

This issue with players not trying - has come when two players retired early in high visibility centre court matches today - with the claim they were not fit enough to play to begin with but only played to get the £35,000 1st round prize money - Klizan in the match with Djokovic, and Dolgopolov in the match with Federer - leaving the centre court spectators feeling hard done by.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40497862

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:09 am

Why are Dolgopolov and Klizan being singled out for their retirements, while Kyrgios, Tipsarevic, Lopez, Istomin, and Troicki are not? Is it because of the cost of CC tickets vs other ticket prices?

Tomic's case reminds me of the stories with Vekic. Parental ego extensions to their children are very common. What parents failed to accomplish on their own, becomes the child's burden for the rest of their life, by choice or by force of habit, intimidation, etc..

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:36 am

One or two retirements can go unnoticed, but they are piling up. I don't think prize money should be given out for losses but for wins. If you get through qualifiers and then pull out of Wimbledon, that should be the same as a first round defeat. Round 1 defeat for a wilcard perhaps expenses only.

Other thing is that Federer and Djokovic quotes are more likely to get in the press, or they are more likely to be asked for their opinion.

These were supposed to be tricky first rounders, at least by the standards of first rounders, did not turn out that way at all really. No real big stories to the day on the men's side.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:46 am

Mahut lost to Youzhny in straights today. A very poor grass court season all round with one win in four tournaments.

Wimbledon last year accounted for 180 of his 670 points. He is ranked 78 before the fall that will come in the next rankings (perhaps down to around 100 or 120), so he is going to be struggling for direct entry to tournaments after this defeat.

At age 35, I wonder if he is on record about saying how much longer he plans to play for.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by laverfan on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:45 am

Henman Bill wrote:One or two retirements can go unnoticed, but they are piling up.

There is perhaps a larger malady, the Tennis calendar, that also needs to be addressed. Do RG and Wimbledon need a longer gap chin ?

Based on a cursory check of 2016 Draws - Wikipedia, there do not seem to be any retirements in R1.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Calder106 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 10:28 am

Don't think there is a need for a longer gap. Didn't they add an extra weeks gap a few years ago.

Although it is not good I can see why players go into the first round when unlikely to complete there match. Tipsarevic is quoted as saying that he has played a number of challengers etc. where the money is very poor to get his ranking up enough to qualify for the main draw. Moving up from the 600s to top 60. He maintains a coach and has his travel expenses while earning very little. Therefore (not quoting here) the £35,000 has been earned and is pay back for the effort he has put in.

Yes Tomic has had a lot of parental pressure but he is 24 now and when motivated a talented player. He has made a lot of money already from the game (yes I know there are overheads). If he doesn't enjoy it he is old enough to get out and find something he does like to do.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 11:41 am

Yes Tomic has had a lot of parental pressure but he is 24 now and when motivated a talented player. He has made a lot of money already from the game (yes I know there are overheads). If he doesn't enjoy it he is old enough to get out and find something he does like to do.


Exactly my point Smile

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest82 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 11:44 am

laverfan wrote:Why are Dolgopolov and Klizan being singled out for their retirements, while Kyrgios, Tipsarevic, Lopez, Istomin, and Troicki are not? Is it because of the cost of CC tickets vs other ticket prices?

Tomic's case reminds me of the stories with Vekic. Parental ego extensions to their children are very common. What parents failed to accomplish on their own, becomes the child's burden for the rest of their life, by choice or by force of habit, intimidation, etc..

I guess if you have paid specifically for a show court ticket you get short changed by only seeing half a Djokovic or Federer match. If you have a grounds ticket, although still disappointing, you can just walk to another court. I guess you wont have paid the excess to see the big stars.

Tipsarevic especially shouldn't have played, think he retired after five games? Lopez seemingly got injured during his match.

Don't know about the others.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:01 pm

A wider issue is how many players are getting injured transitioning onto grass 

I wonder if there's a way to make it less slippy without losing court speed and bounce

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Guest on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:17 pm

temporary21 wrote:A wider issue is how many players are getting injured transitioning onto grass 

I wonder if there's a way to make it less slippy without losing court speed and bounce
But that is part of the skill of grass court tennis - knowing how to move over it - that is one of the skills of Federer that has made him such a success on the surface. Boris Becker used to dive - not something you can get away with on the hard courts. There was a time when three grand slams were played on the grass.

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:41 pm

I mean fair play that you need fleet of foot and careful steps to get into position for the low balls 

The extreme slipperiness of the first 2 days though always makes me wince 

It's still plenty challenging late on when it's not like that

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by Haddie-nuff on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 7:20 am

After reading this ... don't you just despair.. how can you possibly have any sympathy or respect Shocked

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/04/bernard-tomic-ill-give-wimbledon-prize-money-back-if-roger-federer-pays-500m-6754696/

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by lags72 on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 10:20 am

They are totally different individuals and ages, but maybe (just maybe ....) Bernard Tomic could benefit from watching this short vid, voiced by Jimmy Connors himself, about his 'magical run' at the '91 US Open, when 39 years old.

Must confess, I was never a Connors fan in his day (in part because my all-time favourite has always been Bjorn Borg), but with the passage of time I have certainly come to respect Jimbo for his sheer honesty, work ethic, and the way he never gave less than his all on the court.

Not too many regular posters here on 606 these days but I'd encourage those who have stuck around to check this out if you haven't already seen it. I'd be amazed if any true tennis fan didn't find it a really good watch. It's quite unique, and well worth 11 minutes of your time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56bXXhHfYaY

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 11:32 am

No name Bertie wrote:
temporary21 wrote:A wider issue is how many players are getting injured transitioning onto grass 

I wonder if there's a way to make it less slippy without losing court speed and bounce
But that is part of the skill of grass court tennis - knowing how to move over it - that is one of the skills of Federer that has made him such a success on the surface.  Boris Becker used to dive - not something you can get away with on the hard courts.  There was a time when three grand slams were played on the grass.


Yep. You rarely see Murray or Federer, surely the two most natural grass court players, having any issues. And before anyone mentions Lopez, the fact that he's seen as good on grass, kind of emphasises the point about how less specialised it now is - although it will be one of his best surfaces

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by temporary21 on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 11:40 am

Though lll say again 

The skill of moving on grass is about dealing with low and inconsistent bounce and therefore very quick feet 

Slippy conditions aren't part of the skill, they just add the chance of a bad accident 

Even roger and Murray have slipped awkwardly before

That they never have broken their ankles is as testement to a bit of luck as much as skill

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Re: Wimbledon - Day 2

Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Jul 2017, 1:38 pm

I've rarely seen then slip on grass - certainly it would only be with a drying court

You forget about balance. The more balanced they are, the less likely they are to slip. Balance is linked to touch - so I'm not certain about the quick feet. Using that analogy Usain Bolt would be a great tennis player

So for me it's those with good balance and touch

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